Anyone want share what they know or heard about the steps TWI used when asking someone to leave or firing them?
Horror stories, fooledagainII.
(Lots and lots of them)
Imagine being wakened from a dead sleep, at 3am, in the middle of nowhere, with no car or money, and told you had 24 hours to haul your sorry foot across the state line, 150 miles away, if you had any hope of surviving the consequences of leaving the "hedge of protection" that was only available to those in the "one true household". Did it happen? You bet.
Re: "backbiting"
Yeah, what they were really talking about was that you better not ask any questions or talk about what they did if you didn't want a similar fate.
Imagine being wakened from a dead sleep, at 3am, in the middle of nowhere, with no car or money, and told you had 24 hours to haul your sorry foot across the state line, 150 miles away, if you had any hope of surviving the consequences of leaving the "hedge of protection" that was only available to those in the "one true household". Did it happen? You bet.
Re: "backbiting"
Yeah, what they were really talking about was that you better not ask any questions or talk about what they did if you didn't want a similar fate.
Exactly how would that threat happen one could haul someone off TWI grounds as they controlled them. Across state line not likely One is free to camp in New Knoxville if they so desired. The simple fact that there are exways living there puts this myth to rest.
White Dove-Perhaps you misunderstood what he was saying. He said they told you to leave.....or you would suffer consequences. It was a mind control game.
I know of many corps brothers who were literally escorted off Twi property by thugs. Too many bad stories to list.
I will give one good example. I know first hand a trunk coordinator not just a coprs person, or limb leader a trunk coordinator who was a very kind and loving person. He simply handed in his resignation and asked to leave. Well the MOG gave him so many hours (not enough) to get his belongings off of twi property. No one was allowed to help him or talk to him. As you can suspect he could not get his stuff off fast enough and they simply "threw" not placed the rest of his furniture and belongings into a truck, breaking most of them.
Exactly how would that threat happen one could haul someone off TWI grounds as they controlled them. Across state line not likely One is free to camp in New Knoxville if they so desired. The simple fact that there are exways living there puts this myth to rest.
Your logic is wanting, Whitey. The fact that the minions of TWI had no "actual" power to control does not negate the power that some perceived that they had. Some gave TWI's bully boys the bird and lived where they wanted, others succumbed to the threats and did what they were told.
...I know of many corps brothers who were literally escorted off Twi property by thugs...
How embarrassing! Do you know of anyone that protested and "tried" to refuse to go? What was the hurry anyway, did they feel some "devil spirit" might escape if they didn't get people removed by a certain time?
well, they would SAY it was devil spurt possession and they had to keep the household clean, but what they really meant was...
Don't talk to them... you might hear the logic of what they are saying and decide to get out! They couldn't have that, could they?
Plus, you would have to be possessed not to want to live in the most beautiful wonderful perfect place in the world (New Knoxville, Ohio) surrounded by all of the most perfect wonderful loving kind people... Where you got such satisfaction from doing meaningful work spreading the Word of God... I mean, who could WANT to leave a place where the WORD OF GOD DWELLS??
You would have to be possessed, right?
[ Javajane walks aways with a dazed look on her face, humming the tune to "Beautiful Ohio."]
Here is something I did not dare ask when I was in the way. When people was asked to leave or were fired from the position, how was this done? Was it civil? Was it a surprise (did you see it coming)? Was it done harshly?
Since this ministry was suppose to be loving (and kind?), I just curious. I remember some friends being keep out of active corp, and feeling I want to help ease their pain but didn't know how to help. It tore them up inside. It always made me wonder how that dealt with those they asked to leave.
Did give enough notice or time to plan where you going? Who was the "hatchet men" or was it done by letter/phone?
I remember back when I took LCM's AC we were told "back bitting" (or questioning) LCM could get you sent home. This came up because of how the manifestations were being done at the AC. When I was on the field I heard again "back bitting" could get you kick out of the way. One person on the field with me got sent home and we were not allow to talk to her other than say "good bye". I remember feeling so sad for her because before she went home she was "confronted" by local leadership & the L*ll*ys for her actions.
Anyone want share what they know or heard about the steps TWI used when asking someone to leave or firing them?
i started going to fellowship in 1980 went wow 2 times,the lallys were my leadership twice(barb was mean as hell) 1997 the branch coordinator called me on the fone told me i had ben given ample time to overcome some problems in my life but i was weak and lcm didnt want weakness so he kicked me out told me not to contact any believers. a few years went buy i saw a fellowbeliver who informed me about lcm being FIRED and the branch coordinator who kicked me out had left long ago(WOW!!!! now isnt that something!!!!) after talking with him for a while i ask who the local leader was and called and started going to fellowship again (this was 2001). about a year after that i was looking to move to a different area and the limb coordinator said they were looking to rent out there spare room so i moved in with my 2 hot rod cars,rocknroll music ,long hair and all!!! i had a GREAT time living there for about 14 months,then went way discilple 03-04 came back to la and continue to fellowship. this is NOT my grandpas ministry!(by the way the limb coordinator said i NEVER should have ben KICKED out!!!) the best i can tell is that ALL those B.S. leaders left or were themselves KICKED out long ago. in peter it clearly says that there SHALL be false ministers that shall come in among you. this is like the ministry i first came to but with even more love and concern for the individual. i havent encountered any legalism or other B.S. since i came back. if anyone comes in and tries to cause problems or any of that other bs that went on they are escorted to the door like lcm was. this ministry is not for everyone i have had a few friends leave there reasons ranged from they really werent into reading and studying to liking massive amounts of alcohol to they would rather spend there time doing other things besides going to fellowship.its really messed up that people were wrongly kicked and treated like S ESPECIALLY when these SAME people are no longer around. its a spiritual battle my friends i hope this sheds some light on this stuff,whish you the best,GOD bless you ,jeff
White Dove-Perhaps you misunderstood what he was saying. He said they told you to leave.....or you would suffer consequences. It was a mind control game.
I know of many corps brothers who were literally escorted off Twi property by thugs. Too many bad stories to list.
I will give one good example. I know first hand a trunk coordinator not just a coprs person, or limb leader a trunk coordinator who was a very kind and loving person. He simply handed in his resignation and asked to leave. Well the MOG gave him so many hours (not enough) to get his belongings off of twi property. No one was allowed to help him or talk to him. As you can suspect he could not get his stuff off fast enough and they simply "threw" not placed the rest of his furniture and belongings into a truck, breaking most of them.
That's a mild one.
thats pretty dog gone devilish, no one wouldve touched my stuff had that ben me
Your logic is wanting, Whitey. The fact that the minions of TWI had no "actual" power to control does not negate the power that some perceived that they had. Some gave TWI's bully boys the bird and lived where they wanted, others succumbed to the threats and did what they were told.
White Dove-Perhaps you misunderstood what he was saying. He said they told you to leave.....or you would suffer consequences. It was a mind control game.
I know of many corps brothers who were literally escorted off Twi property by thugs. Too many bad stories to list.
I will give one good example. I know first hand a trunk coordinator not just a coprs person, or limb leader a trunk coordinator who was a very kind and loving person. He simply handed in his resignation and asked to leave. Well the MOG gave him so many hours (not enough) to get his belongings off of twi property. No one was allowed to help him or talk to him. As you can suspect he could not get his stuff off fast enough and they simply "threw" not placed the rest of his furniture and belongings into a truck, breaking most of them.
That's a mild one.
No I understood what he said exactly nor do I doubt that they attempted such threats. I just can't figure out why someone would be dumb enough to do what they told them if it made no sense, and second especially if they were removing you from the grounds. I most likely would not have had time to pack either , I'd have been to busy on the floor laughing at their powerless threats. Me I would have found the first space available three feet off grounds to reside and sent them postcards every day just to let them know they had Zero power over where I lived.
They once tried that same logic with me they tried to tell me where and who I could write checks to on my Credit Union account. After again picking myself up off the floor from laughter I made it a point to write enough checks to keep the account current to every exway person that I could think of. They tried to close the account twice , mailing me a check which I refused, having worked in the banking industry I simply called the Ohio Credit Union Board and made them reopen the account which they closed illegally. I know it burned their butt having to process checks to People like John Towns*nd, Chris G**r, Walter C*mm*ns. D*ug S*ed, Vince F*nn*gan and a host of others. They wanted a war and got one. If a Limb leader was dumb enough to resign without having his stuff in order then that's his problem. He should have known better being in that level of the loop.
Your logic is wanting, Whitey. The fact that the minions of TWI had no "actual" power to control does not negate the power that some perceived that they had. Some gave TWI's bully boys the bird and lived where they wanted, others succumbed to the threats and did what they were told.
I've been in both categories personally.
Exactly my point Oak as usual you got it. If your foolish enough to roll over for them then own your decision you can't really blame them for your choice.
No I understood what he said exactly nor do I doubt that they attempted such threats.
Their tactics are simple - It's all about fear. Fear of loss. What do you stand to lose if you leave, what do you stand to keep if you stay. If they can keep you convinced their the best game in town and you're mincemeat if you leave - they gotcha.
Pretty much what they ended up with is a loosely packed cootie platoon.
The Way benefitted from the character of the people who they booted out or who left on their own steam - although they claim that they've "cleaned out" all the Bad Ones, they've actually lost most of the Good Ones. Because a lot of people would have cleaned their clocks if they'd been treated like that. Trust me, the Way fears you more than you fear them.
The Way Nash is extremely blessed alright - blessed that most of those who left were so anxious to cleanse themselves of the Way's filthy toxic stench they got out as quickly as they could and got as far away as they could. Or as far away as was necessary to be a fully functional member of free society, beyond the reach of the Way's nasty tentacles. Most people just want to get on with their lives, away from them.
It could be a mile or a state away - once you're no longer under the influence of their slimey grip you can exercise all the rights of any normal citizen. Freedom, intelligence and the laws of the land put the Way at an extreme disadvantage.
They will blindside you.. beware... the same doctrine they fed/feed you, we were fed. It will take time...but nonetheless...they will show their 'unbecoming' side at some point. Hopefully... it won't hurt too much when the unsuspecting 2x4 comes swinging for your head.
Their tactics are simple - It's all about fear. Fear of loss. What do you stand to lose if you leave, what do you stand to keep if you stay. If they can keep you convinced their the best game in town and you're mincemeat if you leave - they gotcha.
Exactly socks, but what did they really have to claim you stand to loose , a PFAL class? , A way Magazine? , no bookstore privileges....l.. OH I am quaking in my boots....... Kick you out of the Corps? logic tells you you can't un-graduate a graduate....Your always a grad, if they choose to recognize it or not. Take away your ordination? Get another ,actually I don't think most states really cared.
Excuse me but wasn't the main teaching drilled into our heads that the scriptures were our only rule of faith and practice, it is written was the standard. How is it that fear of loss of pointless things became our standard? It seems to me one quick look at scripture would tell one that there was really no loss at all only gain. If you can't do the most basic thing taught what is the point in being around anyway all those years?
You're right excie...whitedove IS a piece of work...troll?
Exactly how would that threat happen one could haul someone off TWI grounds as they controlled them. Across state line not likely One is free to camp in New Knoxville if they so desired. The simple fact that there are exways living there puts this myth to rest.
It's no myth, my friend.
The incidents I referred to happened in Fellow Laborers, not The Corps.
I witnessed them. At least three of them were in houses I lived in. In fact, I was threatened myself, once as an individual and once as part of a group.
Here's the group incident I have cited here before.
There were about 49 or 50 other people in the room when this happened.
One of them is a regular poster here.
We normally only got 5 hours sleep in FLO.(If we were lucky.)
One night we were rousted out of bed at about 3am and told we had 20 minutes to drive from our apartment complex, where we all lived commune style, to limb hq, which was 30 minutes away. It was physically impossible to get there on time.. We all got there late and sat silently in the BRC, with no lights on, waiting for what seemed like forever for the limb leader to appear. He proceeded to tell us we had all failed our test because we were late. He said that we, as a group, were a total disgrace to God and it was all our fault that Word Over The World was doomed to failure because we were dragging down Int. HQ by performing so poorly in the birthplace of the ministry. I don't think anyone had any idea what in the world he could have possibly been referring to. There were no questions or discussions allowed. We were told that, as of that moment, the program was defunct. We were told to go back to our "houses", go back to bed and when the sun came up, we were to pack and get out. We all had "9-5" secular job commitments, too. The next morning we all met for one last 5am fellowship. We were told at that time that we had been given a second chance but we would have to follow subsequent orders to a tee without comment or question.
Not long ago, on one of the threads here on GSC, I discovered that virtually the same thing was done to The Corps at about the same time. The whole thing was planned and staged to look like it was the result of some "heavy revelation". What a crock of theatrical dung the whole thing was.
I don't really care if you think that's a myth or not but like I said, there were 50 other people in the room.
edited: This was in in mid 1970's.
I thought I would add that tidbit for naysayers who insist that TWI life was all puppy dogs and rainbows in the good old "daze".
The incidents I referred to happened in Fellow Laborers, not The Corps.
I witnessed them. At least three of them were in houses I lived in. In fact, I was threatened myself, once as an individual and once as part of a group.
Here's the group incident I have cited here before.
There were about 49 or 50 other people in the room when this happened.
One of them is a regular poster here.
We normally only got 5 hours sleep in FLO.(If we were lucky.)
One night we were rousted out of bed at about 3am and told we had 20 minutes to drive from our apartment complex, where we all lived commune style, to limb hq, which was 30 minutes away. It was physically impossible to get there on time.. We all got there late and sat silently in the BRC, with no lights on, waiting for what seemed like forever for the limb leader to appear. He proceeded to tell us we had all failed our test because we were late. He said that we, as a group, were a total disgrace to God and it was all our fault that Word Over The World was doomed to failure because we were dragging down Int. HQ by performing so poorly in the birthplace of the ministry. I don't think anyone had any idea what in the world he could have possibly been referring to. There were no questions or discussions allowed. We were told that, as of that moment, the program was defunct. We were told to go back to our "houses", go back to bed and when the sun came up, we were to pack and get out. We all had "9-5" secular job commitments, too. The next morning we all met for one last 5am fellowship. We were told at that time that we had been given a second chance but we would have to follow subsequent orders to a tee without comment or question.
Not long ago, on one of the threads here on GSC, I discovered that virtually the same thing was done to The Corps at about the same time. The whole thing was planned and staged to look like it was the result of some "heavy revelation". What a crock of theatrical dung the whole thing was.
I don't really care if you think that's a myth or not but like I said, there were 50 other people in the room.
It always amazes me that no matter how many times one states their point someone always comes along and accuses them of saying the opposite. Had you read my post you would have seen this
No I understood what he said exactly nor do I doubt that they attempted such threats.
I then made a point to show not only did I believe it but experienced it myself.
And after all this you start off with I don't care if you don't believe it it's no myth. exactly what I did not say. I believe you even without your fifty people.
Now I did speak of a Myth. The myth however is that somehow you were compelled to believe what they said and blindly comply like a whipped pup. and then years later still lament how you were forced to do such and such.
I admit it I don't get it I'm always amazed that people of such caliber Corps Grads ,Fellow Laborers, Clergy, people who have years of teaching in the scriptures and years of experience, those who have taught this over and over and somehow level one baby food they seem to miss? How can it be? What ever happened to On Guard, Chapter and Verse. Excuse me but wasn't the main teaching drilled into our heads from PFAL on that the scriptures were our only rule of faith and practice, it is written was the standard. The word the word and a million other catch phrases. How is it that fear of loss of pointless things became our standard? It seems to me one quick look at scripture would tell one that there was really no loss at all only gain. If you can't do the most basic thing taught what is the point in being around anyway all those years? Were we really to cower in fear like some whipped dog because the big bad man said BOO Do we wet our pants in fear and mindlessly follow like BAAA sheep at their every command or do we check it with the scripture as we were taught in lesson one PFAL. Leave the state why you should still be on the floor laughing from that one. Why anyone would feel compelled to do such a thing unless they choose to of their own free will is beyond me. Does anyone think Jesus cowered and left when the men of his day roared, Doubtful. Wasn't he supposed to be our example? If it's not enough to have complied in the day but then years later actually with a straight face imply that they somehow had the power to make you cross a state line.... Ridicules They can move you off their property period that's it. I don't care if it was The Fellow Laborers or the Corps. They have ZERO control over where you live unless YOU allow them to. Geeese even
The Beastie Boys knew that You gotta fight for your right to Party, it seems we could muster up at least the same fight for the scripture.
We agree on this it was a crock ..........and should have been met with resistance from scripture not compliance from a whipped dog. Sure they can kick you out of their house and you can rent the one right next door or down the street.
im hesitant to post in this quickly escalating thread, but i do have a question for you white dove.
why is it that leaving the state is the line for you?
looking back, i'm amazed that i let myself be told to dontate money. i'm amazed that i belived evil spirits cause cancer. i'm amazed that i went along with mark and avoiding some close friends. i'm amazed that i was so far in that i didn't question scheduling an hour to write a schedule to submit to leadership. i'm amazed that i sat in the car for 8 hours every other sunday service. i'm amazed that i lined up chairs with a string. there is (obviously) more, but i'll stop this list here.
so, assuming you have a similar list from your time inside, what is so over the top about leaving the state? beliving these people got us to do so many other things without going to the scripture (i dare you to find a bible verse about chairs in a row.)
if where you live is the solid line for you, excelent. but please understand that line is going to be in a diffrent place for many.
Apparently, WhiteDove, you either don't accept or don't realize the we were being subjected to a form of mind control.
No one, that I'm aware of, sat in that room with wet pants or trembled in fear. It was a sense of utter futility, not fear that swept over that room. After we had worked so hard, for so long, we were confronted point blank with this scenario. Then, only hours later, we were sent on another roller coaster. Disappointment and hopelessness were the high cards in that hand, not fear.
So, you can smugly rehearse in your mind what you would do if a mugger suddenly appeared and stuck a gun in your face. Yeah, first you punch him in the gut, then you give him an upper cut, then you grab the gun and watch him run from you like a scared rabbit. Uh huh, sounds real good until it actually happens to you in a moment's notice. That's when you stammer and stumble over your carefully rehearsed lines and can't remember if you are supposed to exit stage left or stage right.
Believe me, there was nothing humorous about suddenly being told that everything you had worked so hard for was about to be taken away in a moment's time. Rent the house next door? Why on earth would someone who had traveled 1,000 or 2,000 miles to be a part of it ever want to do that?
Wd, you are exhibiting the same calousness that those twi who were throwing people out exhibited. Not everyone reacts the same way, your arguments all point toward you telling us they should have acted like you. It is illogical to think all people would react the same way to the same circumstances, given that we all have different backgrounds. Many have described being kicked out of their corps assignment and thrown out of the corps was like going through a divorce, being betrayed by the person you still love. You couldn't possible think that every person reacts the same to this, we know they don't, yet you would have us believe they should have acted like you did regarding a non similar event with twi in your life.
In previous threads you often don't believe anything anyone else says if you didn't experience it yourself, you did not experience this. You likening twi cu giving back your checking acct to someone loosing their life's calling while being defrocked in a town they never would have been in save their assignment similar?
You have no authority to logically comment on this thread, you can spout in an angry misguided huff whatever you want to here, but you have no basis of anything close to what people experienced who actually were kicked out did.
Wow, it makes all your posts here look like a farce....which they are.
Went up to build the auditorium, got married to the love of my life who VOLUNTEERED to work. She and i decided when summer came it would be good for our children for her to spend the summer with them and not volunteer at HQ for that period. When she notified Brown that she would be taking the summer off she was told "NO YOU WILL NOT". I then told her to tell him her HUSBAND had told her she would be taking off and if there was any discussion it should be with me.
My wife and i are out riding our motorcycle on the weekend and decide to stop by HQ to see what if anything was going on. There's a cookout and my once best friend and business partner who i got into the ministry and whom is now my foreman walks up to me and tells me he would like to talk. When we get off to the side he tells me because my wife will not be working i can "look for a new job as of MONDAY morning".
I had been there about a year and told him no problem, she would work. Walked over to my wife and told her what was said and told her i was up for leaving how did she feel. Monday, she got a UHAUL, I went in to get my 1 week vacation pay, loaded up the truck and GONE. As far as i'm concerned there was not one person in that heirarchy that was walking with God in that situation. That was 1985 i guess.
Now that i hear what happened to so many others i realize i was blessed to be put in that situation and GOT OUT.
im hesitant to post in this quickly escalating thread, but i do have a question for you white dove.
why is it that leaving the state is the line for you?
looking back, i'm amazed that i let myself be told to dontate money. i'm amazed that i belived evil spirits cause cancer. i'm amazed that i went along with mark and avoiding some close friends. i'm amazed that i was so far in that i didn't question scheduling an hour to write a schedule to submit to leadership. i'm amazed that i sat in the car for 8 hours every other sunday service. i'm amazed that i lined up chairs with a string. there is (obviously) more, but i'll stop this list here.
so, assuming you have a similar list from your time inside, what is so over the top about leaving the state? beliving these people got us to do so many other things without going to the scripture (i dare you to find a bible verse about chairs in a row.)
if where you live is the solid line for you, excelent. but please understand that line is going to be in a diffrent place for many.
Nick I did not offer that reason as a line for me, I simply used the example someone else posted as their gripe that they were forced to endure, that person being Waysider,
and told you had 24 hours to haul your sorry foot across the state line,
I merely attempted to show what an empty threat it was as it was not possible for them to follow up and make good on . That said one would think the believability of such a threat would be minimal in the least ,and certainly would not be considered any threat at all, given the obvious.
Don't assume I have such a list I don't..... And yes I am amazed that you and others did many of those things as well. I find that telling in itself........ In retrospect I think you will see that in fact it was not something that they had to endure, it was an empty threat which they took the bait for upon themselves. A mistake , own it.
One has to wonder why someone who, by their own testimony, suggests they were never a subject of TWI's behavioral control methods, would have ever stayed at all. Puzzling, isn't it?
Ultimately WD, anyone who leaves or makes changes in their participation does what yuu described, fear or no fear.
Fear is built into the system of doctrine the Way teaches. They are calling it "love" but it's clearly not the same as what the bible reflects.
If it's "just" PFAL, then the scenario you describe fits. If the Way Corps is "just" a 2, 3, 4 year training program and then you move on and out, likewise.
Amend to that though the notion that a lifetime of committment to them is required for what they've offered to fully "work" and it's a different scenario.
Add that to break or change that committment has severe consequences, REGARDLESS of how you behave with everything else you were taught, and it's different.
The Way teaches that the body of Christ has a "household' of true standing believers, who hold and benefit from their unique standing. Stay, you're protected and blessed. Leave, you're mincemeat. They teach they are that true household, or did. Everyone else is out to lunch. That in itself is wrong and sets up for some bad cha-cha.
In a nutshell - if you enjoy and participate and want to expand beyond their immediate grip - and this is the way it was for many years for people posting here - they turn nasty, scarey and mean.
That will produce fear in a lot of people, most I think. One day - they're your friends, wound a little tight but they can be nice and sweet. Next day - they're meaner than a mad bee and acting like you're Evil incarnate. :blink:
But I agree with you - ultimately, if it's with fear over what might happen or with a friendly F-you and a wave, when you leave you leave.
Time has proven something i think. Look at what happened when all of the "bad ones"as they now call you, left. They fell apart and things came to the surface, things they were hiding.
It would seem the "hedge of protection" moved, if there was one. Know what I mean? Any observer without prejudice would at least consider that as an equal possibility, I think.
And to add: The Way did make good on some threats. They could be extremely rough when they wanted to be. In some cases they simply took people and their stuff and threw them out. A bunch of big guys show up and toss you and your stuff out. That's going to be pretty weird for a lot of people. Women, young people, men who are trying to handle their own families in the middle of that and whatever's going on.
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waysider
Horror stories, fooledagainII.
(Lots and lots of them)
Imagine being wakened from a dead sleep, at 3am, in the middle of nowhere, with no car or money, and told you had 24 hours to haul your sorry foot across the state line, 150 miles away, if you had any hope of surviving the consequences of leaving the "hedge of protection" that was only available to those in the "one true household". Did it happen? You bet.
Re: "backbiting"
Yeah, what they were really talking about was that you better not ask any questions or talk about what they did if you didn't want a similar fate.
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WhiteDove
Exactly how would that threat happen one could haul someone off TWI grounds as they controlled them. Across state line not likely One is free to camp in New Knoxville if they so desired. The simple fact that there are exways living there puts this myth to rest.
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polar bear
White Dove-Perhaps you misunderstood what he was saying. He said they told you to leave.....or you would suffer consequences. It was a mind control game.
I know of many corps brothers who were literally escorted off Twi property by thugs. Too many bad stories to list.
I will give one good example. I know first hand a trunk coordinator not just a coprs person, or limb leader a trunk coordinator who was a very kind and loving person. He simply handed in his resignation and asked to leave. Well the MOG gave him so many hours (not enough) to get his belongings off of twi property. No one was allowed to help him or talk to him. As you can suspect he could not get his stuff off fast enough and they simply "threw" not placed the rest of his furniture and belongings into a truck, breaking most of them.
That's a mild one.
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Oakspear
I've been in both categories personally.
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fooledagainII
How embarrassing! Do you know of anyone that protested and "tried" to refuse to go? What was the hurry anyway, did they feel some "devil spirit" might escape if they didn't get people removed by a certain time?
Was clergy "bum rushed" off too?
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JavaJane
well, they would SAY it was devil spurt possession and they had to keep the household clean, but what they really meant was...
Don't talk to them... you might hear the logic of what they are saying and decide to get out! They couldn't have that, could they?
Plus, you would have to be possessed not to want to live in the most beautiful wonderful perfect place in the world (New Knoxville, Ohio) surrounded by all of the most perfect wonderful loving kind people... Where you got such satisfaction from doing meaningful work spreading the Word of God... I mean, who could WANT to leave a place where the WORD OF GOD DWELLS??
You would have to be possessed, right?
[ Javajane walks aways with a dazed look on her face, humming the tune to "Beautiful Ohio."]
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doojable
Spurt of Way Cornfield Gulag ...COME OWT!
;)
Okay, now go listen to Pink Floyd and sing sin no more.
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shiftthis
i started going to fellowship in 1980 went wow 2 times,the lallys were my leadership twice(barb was mean as hell) 1997 the branch coordinator called me on the fone told me i had ben given ample time to overcome some problems in my life but i was weak and lcm didnt want weakness so he kicked me out told me not to contact any believers. a few years went buy i saw a fellowbeliver who informed me about lcm being FIRED and the branch coordinator who kicked me out had left long ago(WOW!!!! now isnt that something!!!!) after talking with him for a while i ask who the local leader was and called and started going to fellowship again (this was 2001). about a year after that i was looking to move to a different area and the limb coordinator said they were looking to rent out there spare room so i moved in with my 2 hot rod cars,rocknroll music ,long hair and all!!! i had a GREAT time living there for about 14 months,then went way discilple 03-04 came back to la and continue to fellowship. this is NOT my grandpas ministry!(by the way the limb coordinator said i NEVER should have ben KICKED out!!!) the best i can tell is that ALL those B.S. leaders left or were themselves KICKED out long ago. in peter it clearly says that there SHALL be false ministers that shall come in among you. this is like the ministry i first came to but with even more love and concern for the individual. i havent encountered any legalism or other B.S. since i came back. if anyone comes in and tries to cause problems or any of that other bs that went on they are escorted to the door like lcm was. this ministry is not for everyone i have had a few friends leave there reasons ranged from they really werent into reading and studying to liking massive amounts of alcohol to they would rather spend there time doing other things besides going to fellowship.its really messed up that people were wrongly kicked and treated like S ESPECIALLY when these SAME people are no longer around. its a spiritual battle my friends i hope this sheds some light on this stuff,whish you the best,GOD bless you ,jeff
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shiftthis
thats pretty dog gone devilish, no one wouldve touched my stuff had that ben me
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WhiteDove
No I understood what he said exactly nor do I doubt that they attempted such threats. I just can't figure out why someone would be dumb enough to do what they told them if it made no sense, and second especially if they were removing you from the grounds. I most likely would not have had time to pack either , I'd have been to busy on the floor laughing at their powerless threats. Me I would have found the first space available three feet off grounds to reside and sent them postcards every day just to let them know they had Zero power over where I lived.
They once tried that same logic with me they tried to tell me where and who I could write checks to on my Credit Union account. After again picking myself up off the floor from laughter I made it a point to write enough checks to keep the account current to every exway person that I could think of. They tried to close the account twice , mailing me a check which I refused, having worked in the banking industry I simply called the Ohio Credit Union Board and made them reopen the account which they closed illegally. I know it burned their butt having to process checks to People like John Towns*nd, Chris G**r, Walter C*mm*ns. D*ug S*ed, Vince F*nn*gan and a host of others. They wanted a war and got one. If a Limb leader was dumb enough to resign without having his stuff in order then that's his problem. He should have known better being in that level of the loop.
Exactly my point Oak as usual you got it. If your foolish enough to roll over for them then own your decision you can't really blame them for your choice.
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excathedra
okay, moderators please delete this post
whitedove, you're a piece of work
please stop it
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socks
Their tactics are simple - It's all about fear. Fear of loss. What do you stand to lose if you leave, what do you stand to keep if you stay. If they can keep you convinced their the best game in town and you're mincemeat if you leave - they gotcha.
Pretty much what they ended up with is a loosely packed cootie platoon.
The Way benefitted from the character of the people who they booted out or who left on their own steam - although they claim that they've "cleaned out" all the Bad Ones, they've actually lost most of the Good Ones. Because a lot of people would have cleaned their clocks if they'd been treated like that. Trust me, the Way fears you more than you fear them.
The Way Nash is extremely blessed alright - blessed that most of those who left were so anxious to cleanse themselves of the Way's filthy toxic stench they got out as quickly as they could and got as far away as they could. Or as far away as was necessary to be a fully functional member of free society, beyond the reach of the Way's nasty tentacles. Most people just want to get on with their lives, away from them.
It could be a mile or a state away - once you're no longer under the influence of their slimey grip you can exercise all the rights of any normal citizen. Freedom, intelligence and the laws of the land put the Way at an extreme disadvantage.
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A la prochaine
Socks.
Ditto!
Shiftthis,
They will blindside you.. beware... the same doctrine they fed/feed you, we were fed. It will take time...but nonetheless...they will show their 'unbecoming' side at some point. Hopefully... it won't hurt too much when the unsuspecting 2x4 comes swinging for your head.
bonne chance.
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GrouchoMarxJr
You're right excie...whitedove IS a piece of work...troll?
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WhiteDove
Excuse me but wasn't the main teaching drilled into our heads that the scriptures were our only rule of faith and practice, it is written was the standard. How is it that fear of loss of pointless things became our standard? It seems to me one quick look at scripture would tell one that there was really no loss at all only gain. If you can't do the most basic thing taught what is the point in being around anyway all those years?
Yep.......... a Masterpiece in fact
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waysider
It's no myth, my friend.
The incidents I referred to happened in Fellow Laborers, not The Corps.
I witnessed them. At least three of them were in houses I lived in. In fact, I was threatened myself, once as an individual and once as part of a group.
Here's the group incident I have cited here before.
There were about 49 or 50 other people in the room when this happened.
One of them is a regular poster here.
We normally only got 5 hours sleep in FLO.(If we were lucky.)
One night we were rousted out of bed at about 3am and told we had 20 minutes to drive from our apartment complex, where we all lived commune style, to limb hq, which was 30 minutes away. It was physically impossible to get there on time.. We all got there late and sat silently in the BRC, with no lights on, waiting for what seemed like forever for the limb leader to appear. He proceeded to tell us we had all failed our test because we were late. He said that we, as a group, were a total disgrace to God and it was all our fault that Word Over The World was doomed to failure because we were dragging down Int. HQ by performing so poorly in the birthplace of the ministry. I don't think anyone had any idea what in the world he could have possibly been referring to. There were no questions or discussions allowed. We were told that, as of that moment, the program was defunct. We were told to go back to our "houses", go back to bed and when the sun came up, we were to pack and get out. We all had "9-5" secular job commitments, too. The next morning we all met for one last 5am fellowship. We were told at that time that we had been given a second chance but we would have to follow subsequent orders to a tee without comment or question.
Not long ago, on one of the threads here on GSC, I discovered that virtually the same thing was done to The Corps at about the same time. The whole thing was planned and staged to look like it was the result of some "heavy revelation". What a crock of theatrical dung the whole thing was.
I don't really care if you think that's a myth or not but like I said, there were 50 other people in the room.
edited: This was in in mid 1970's.
I thought I would add that tidbit for naysayers who insist that TWI life was all puppy dogs and rainbows in the good old "daze".
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WhiteDove
It always amazes me that no matter how many times one states their point someone always comes along and accuses them of saying the opposite. Had you read my post you would have seen this
No I understood what he said exactly nor do I doubt that they attempted such threats.
I then made a point to show not only did I believe it but experienced it myself.
And after all this you start off with I don't care if you don't believe it it's no myth. exactly what I did not say. I believe you even without your fifty people.
Now I did speak of a Myth. The myth however is that somehow you were compelled to believe what they said and blindly comply like a whipped pup. and then years later still lament how you were forced to do such and such.
I admit it I don't get it I'm always amazed that people of such caliber Corps Grads ,Fellow Laborers, Clergy, people who have years of teaching in the scriptures and years of experience, those who have taught this over and over and somehow level one baby food they seem to miss? How can it be? What ever happened to On Guard, Chapter and Verse. Excuse me but wasn't the main teaching drilled into our heads from PFAL on that the scriptures were our only rule of faith and practice, it is written was the standard. The word the word and a million other catch phrases. How is it that fear of loss of pointless things became our standard? It seems to me one quick look at scripture would tell one that there was really no loss at all only gain. If you can't do the most basic thing taught what is the point in being around anyway all those years? Were we really to cower in fear like some whipped dog because the big bad man said BOO Do we wet our pants in fear and mindlessly follow like BAAA sheep at their every command or do we check it with the scripture as we were taught in lesson one PFAL. Leave the state
why you should still be on the floor laughing from that one. Why anyone would feel compelled to do such a thing unless they choose to of their own free will is beyond me. Does anyone think Jesus cowered and left when the men of his day roared, Doubtful. Wasn't he supposed to be our example? If it's not enough to have complied in the day but then years later actually with a straight face imply that they somehow had the power to make you cross a state line.... Ridicules They can move you off their property period that's it. I don't care if it was The Fellow Laborers or the Corps. They have ZERO control over where you live unless YOU allow them to. Geeese even
The Beastie Boys knew that You gotta fight for your right to Party, it seems we could muster up at least the same fight for the scripture.
We agree on this it was a crock ..........and should have been met with resistance from scripture not compliance from a whipped dog. Sure they can kick you out of their house and you can rent the one right next door or down the street.
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nick
im hesitant to post in this quickly escalating thread, but i do have a question for you white dove.
why is it that leaving the state is the line for you?
looking back, i'm amazed that i let myself be told to dontate money. i'm amazed that i belived evil spirits cause cancer. i'm amazed that i went along with mark and avoiding some close friends. i'm amazed that i was so far in that i didn't question scheduling an hour to write a schedule to submit to leadership. i'm amazed that i sat in the car for 8 hours every other sunday service. i'm amazed that i lined up chairs with a string. there is (obviously) more, but i'll stop this list here.
so, assuming you have a similar list from your time inside, what is so over the top about leaving the state? beliving these people got us to do so many other things without going to the scripture (i dare you to find a bible verse about chairs in a row.)
if where you live is the solid line for you, excelent. but please understand that line is going to be in a diffrent place for many.
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waysider
Apparently, WhiteDove, you either don't accept or don't realize the we were being subjected to a form of mind control.
No one, that I'm aware of, sat in that room with wet pants or trembled in fear. It was a sense of utter futility, not fear that swept over that room. After we had worked so hard, for so long, we were confronted point blank with this scenario. Then, only hours later, we were sent on another roller coaster. Disappointment and hopelessness were the high cards in that hand, not fear.
So, you can smugly rehearse in your mind what you would do if a mugger suddenly appeared and stuck a gun in your face. Yeah, first you punch him in the gut, then you give him an upper cut, then you grab the gun and watch him run from you like a scared rabbit. Uh huh, sounds real good until it actually happens to you in a moment's notice. That's when you stammer and stumble over your carefully rehearsed lines and can't remember if you are supposed to exit stage left or stage right.
Believe me, there was nothing humorous about suddenly being told that everything you had worked so hard for was about to be taken away in a moment's time. Rent the house next door? Why on earth would someone who had traveled 1,000 or 2,000 miles to be a part of it ever want to do that?
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now I see
Wd, you are exhibiting the same calousness that those twi who were throwing people out exhibited. Not everyone reacts the same way, your arguments all point toward you telling us they should have acted like you. It is illogical to think all people would react the same way to the same circumstances, given that we all have different backgrounds. Many have described being kicked out of their corps assignment and thrown out of the corps was like going through a divorce, being betrayed by the person you still love. You couldn't possible think that every person reacts the same to this, we know they don't, yet you would have us believe they should have acted like you did regarding a non similar event with twi in your life.
In previous threads you often don't believe anything anyone else says if you didn't experience it yourself, you did not experience this. You likening twi cu giving back your checking acct to someone loosing their life's calling while being defrocked in a town they never would have been in save their assignment similar?
You have no authority to logically comment on this thread, you can spout in an angry misguided huff whatever you want to here, but you have no basis of anything close to what people experienced who actually were kicked out did.
Wow, it makes all your posts here look like a farce....which they are.
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JeffMedic
ok, here's my incident at HQ:
Went up to build the auditorium, got married to the love of my life who VOLUNTEERED to work. She and i decided when summer came it would be good for our children for her to spend the summer with them and not volunteer at HQ for that period. When she notified Brown that she would be taking the summer off she was told "NO YOU WILL NOT". I then told her to tell him her HUSBAND had told her she would be taking off and if there was any discussion it should be with me.
My wife and i are out riding our motorcycle on the weekend and decide to stop by HQ to see what if anything was going on. There's a cookout and my once best friend and business partner who i got into the ministry and whom is now my foreman walks up to me and tells me he would like to talk. When we get off to the side he tells me because my wife will not be working i can "look for a new job as of MONDAY morning".
I had been there about a year and told him no problem, she would work. Walked over to my wife and told her what was said and told her i was up for leaving how did she feel. Monday, she got a UHAUL, I went in to get my 1 week vacation pay, loaded up the truck and GONE. As far as i'm concerned there was not one person in that heirarchy that was walking with God in that situation. That was 1985 i guess.
Now that i hear what happened to so many others i realize i was blessed to be put in that situation and GOT OUT.
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WhiteDove
Nick I did not offer that reason as a line for me, I simply used the example someone else posted as their gripe that they were forced to endure, that person being Waysider,
I merely attempted to show what an empty threat it was as it was not possible for them to follow up and make good on . That said one would think the believability of such a threat would be minimal in the least ,and certainly would not be considered any threat at all, given the obvious.
Don't assume I have such a list I don't..... And yes I am amazed that you and others did many of those things as well. I find that telling in itself........ In retrospect I think you will see that in fact it was not something that they had to endure, it was an empty threat which they took the bait for upon themselves. A mistake , own it.
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waysider
One has to wonder why someone who, by their own testimony, suggests they were never a subject of TWI's behavioral control methods, would have ever stayed at all. Puzzling, isn't it?
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socks
A la. :)
Ultimately WD, anyone who leaves or makes changes in their participation does what yuu described, fear or no fear.
Fear is built into the system of doctrine the Way teaches. They are calling it "love" but it's clearly not the same as what the bible reflects.
If it's "just" PFAL, then the scenario you describe fits. If the Way Corps is "just" a 2, 3, 4 year training program and then you move on and out, likewise.
Amend to that though the notion that a lifetime of committment to them is required for what they've offered to fully "work" and it's a different scenario.
Add that to break or change that committment has severe consequences, REGARDLESS of how you behave with everything else you were taught, and it's different.
The Way teaches that the body of Christ has a "household' of true standing believers, who hold and benefit from their unique standing. Stay, you're protected and blessed. Leave, you're mincemeat. They teach they are that true household, or did. Everyone else is out to lunch. That in itself is wrong and sets up for some bad cha-cha.
In a nutshell - if you enjoy and participate and want to expand beyond their immediate grip - and this is the way it was for many years for people posting here - they turn nasty, scarey and mean.
That will produce fear in a lot of people, most I think. One day - they're your friends, wound a little tight but they can be nice and sweet. Next day - they're meaner than a mad bee and acting like you're Evil incarnate. :blink:
But I agree with you - ultimately, if it's with fear over what might happen or with a friendly F-you and a wave, when you leave you leave.
Time has proven something i think. Look at what happened when all of the "bad ones"as they now call you, left. They fell apart and things came to the surface, things they were hiding.
It would seem the "hedge of protection" moved, if there was one. Know what I mean?
Any observer without prejudice would at least consider that as an equal possibility, I think.
And to add: The Way did make good on some threats. They could be extremely rough when they wanted to be. In some cases they simply took people and their stuff and threw them out. A bunch of big guys show up and toss you and your stuff out. That's going to be pretty weird for a lot of people. Women, young people, men who are trying to handle their own families in the middle of that and whatever's going on.
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