I heard about it at that time but did not read it until I found GS Cafe.
The loss of so many was explained as devil spirit seduction. Craig did a wghole class to expalin it called the Leadership tapes/Galations tapes. I can't remember if all believers or just those in leadership/twig leader type positions.
In my fuzzy memory, I don't think it was ever 'officially' made known to the masses, though the vast majority knew about it. It's difficult to keep an exploding volcano secret.
I found out about it at the roa in '86. That was right after it was revealed to the corps and they were trying to make it 'business as usual', with a 'getting back to basics' theme. Some friends in the corps told me what was up in whispers. I'd guess there was a lot of that taking place.
From there the word spread pretty quickly. The twigs went back to studying 'the blue book', many people slowly discovered what was really going on, and the 'leadership' scrambled to keep the little people sedate and in the dark. Didn't work.
To my knowledge, twi never revealed PoP to the fellowships/followers at all. I don't even think it was revealed (officially by twi, at least) to the staff. As hiway29 says, news of it spread pretty quickly in some areas, although in others it was apparently kept hush-hush.
It was first read to the Corps on Corps night, either at the end of March or the beginning of April '86 (I forget the exact date, but I know it was one of those times because it was the first Corps hook-up I went to a week or two after quitting my job at HQ). Then Geer came back in August to read it again to the entire Corps at Corps Week. I skipped out and went to a friend's house, having no desire to sit through it again. I remember coming back to the ROA grounds after Geer finished to see everyone walking around looking stunned.
Someone who was clergy could probably fill in the blanks, but to the best of my memory, Craig had been to Gartmore to see Geer, who either read PoP to him or confronted him regarding its content. Geer's story was that he had to come here and read it to the Corps because Craig had come back to the US and had been talking about it (I think Geer said it originally was supposed to be "lock box," only revealed to the BOT.)
The corps night telephone hook-up in which Chris Geer first read POP was heard by Corps on the field, that was April 23rd 1986. It was then read to a couple of hundred invited guests in May of 1986 in NK. That year during corps week it was read out loud from under the big top (talk about a horrible week )
It depended on where people lived, and who the field "managers" were, how much they knew about pop. Some local leadership were very protective of their folks, others made sure everyone knew every jot and tittle.
On March 8th 1988, lcm made his official break with gartmore and sent out that icky "who do you stand with?" letter in which he gave the 50 limb coordinators, all paid field staff which was @ 100, and all of the way corps grads an ultimatum about who they stood with. That event was a defining moment in the history of the way, and really started the mass exodus.
radar
Somewhere around here is a thread entitled "A night that will live in infamy," it is long, but it describes the original reading of POP and the following events.
Somewhere around here is a thread entitled "A night that will live in infamy," it is long, but it describes the original reading of POP and the following events.
"Today is the anniversary of what turned out to be the beginning of the end of The Way International, the public release of PASSING OF A PATRIARCH...."
Thank Radar that thread gave a lot insight (and ww, for finding/linking it)... should be required reading (just my opinion).
Couple of questions:
...the entire Galatians teachings were inspired by the research done by a 15th corps grad woman that was on staff in the corps director's office....Craig didn't even come up with THAT himself...
What was in the Galatians teachings?
Does anyone know if there is thread out there about this?
Chris Geer did not like Mrs. Wierwille, actually the word despise comes to mind. There were whole sections of written narratives about her that Don, Howard and even LCM would NOT ALLOW to publicized. All three of them were willing to be personally crucified but were not willing to allow C Geer "to go there" in regards to Mrs. I believe that she considered Geer a liar, a snake and a self serving excuse for a man, at one time she personally said to me that he was "among the deceivers, not the deceived"..this view was (and is) pretty much held by the entire Wierwille family, of that I feel confident. Part of her opinion comes from the fact that he was attempting to destroy everything of value to her...the legacy of her husband. VPW had been dead less than one year at the time of POP and she was still in deep mourning.
What CG problem with Mrs W.? Why did they allow him to speak to Corp at all?
...It is pretty safe to say that nobody, EVER wanted VPW to be around C Geer, but that is because Geer was always coming up with kooky stuff....for any of you that want to know...it was Geer that started all that Illuminati stuff, it was Geer that
came up with the paranoid practice of sending the safety department to S.W.A.T. training, it was Geer that trained the German short-haired dogs and the dobermans to be attack dogs. In fact, one of them was so vicious and uncontrollable that as soon as VPW died, they packed that dog overseas to go be with his Frankenstein creator....not even Paula Butler could contain that dog. I am not blaming every wacko thing twi ever did on Chris Geer....VPW and plenty of others came up with some hair brained ideas (the green foam on the trailer in the woods, the Sno-Way, etc.) but there were valid reasons for
people not to trust Geer...
Huh??? Attack dogs... S.W.A.T. training... what in the world was I involved in? What is Illuminati "stuff"?
Of course the MOGs did everything they could to cover up for any dissension in the ranks.
The Galatians tapes were made by LCM to try to bring the allegiance of the masses back to him after many of the leadership had left with their people after POP.
Basically they talked about how the Galatians had been bewitched or fooled into walking in the flesh and not in the spirit.
And that anyone who had not followed what the "father in the word" old Doc Vic had said about the transfer of the mantle to LCM was walking the same way.
One reason I could think of why Mrs. W. didn't like C Geer was because he was the Vicsters bus driver and then became his personal assistant. She was aware of all the woman he funnelled into the coach for the Vicster right outside of the house where Mrs. W lived.
Thank Radar that thread gave a lot insight (and ww, for finding/linking it)... should be required reading (just my opinion).
Couple of questions:
What was in the Galatians teachings?
Does anyone know if there is thread out there about this?
What CG problem with Mrs W.? Why did they allow him to speak to Corp at all?
Huh??? Attack dogs... S.W.A.T. training... what in the world was I involved in? What is Illuminati "stuff"?
It's quite possible the illuminati wasn't discussed as much in the late 80's & 90's... but it was popular in twi in the 70's. Below is a short clip about it. (I didn't know about the little owl on the dollar bill. :o ). BTW, I think VP was teaching this stuff in the early 70's way before CG became his consultant.)
It's my understanding that VPW obtained much of his conspiracy "knowledge" through his(documented) direct association with The Liberty Lobby, though he was quite willing to let us believe he got these insights by "revelation". Kinda makes one wonder how much of the ABS secretly funded this stuff.
I was fortunate in one way, because in my area, Rhode Island at the time, nearly everyone including the leadership recognized the crap going on at HQ and were told all about it. Many of us subscribed to Geer's publication, Future Considerations, which published POP in installments. At the time we thought he was a prophet. It wasn't until later we found out that Geer was no better than LCM and we pretty much did our own thing locally after that.
Chris Geer did not like Mrs. Wierwille, actually the word despise comes to mind...I believe that she considered Geer a liar, a snake and a self serving excuse for a man... Part of her opinion comes from the fact that he was attempting to destroy everything of value to her...the legacy of her husband. VPW had been dead less than one year at the time of POP and she was still in deep mourning.
What I don't understand is why would Geer work to destroy VP's legacy if he was a devoted follower of his?
What I don't understand is why would Geer work to destroy VP's legacy if he was a devoted follower of his?
I don't think he was trying to destroy VP's legacy... I think he convinced himself that Craig was destroying VP's legacy and so he, CG, came riding in to rescue the ministry and become the legitimate MOGFODAT to carry on Vic's work.
The truly stupid thing is, both these men were clearly carrying on VPW's true legacy: letchery, backstabbing, and narcissism.
Apparently Geer and Martindale each thought the other was tearing down VP's legacy. In reality, I think it self-destructed. Gamaliel said it best, in Acts 5, "If this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought."
Recommended Posts
Bramble
The loss of so many was explained as devil spirit seduction. Craig did a wghole class to expalin it called the Leadership tapes/Galations tapes. I can't remember if all believers or just those in leadership/twig leader type positions.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I left in about 1990 and never heard a thing about it until I came here.
I wasn't corps though so maybe that factors into it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
In my fuzzy memory, I don't think it was ever 'officially' made known to the masses, though the vast majority knew about it. It's difficult to keep an exploding volcano secret.
I found out about it at the roa in '86. That was right after it was revealed to the corps and they were trying to make it 'business as usual', with a 'getting back to basics' theme. Some friends in the corps told me what was up in whispers. I'd guess there was a lot of that taking place.
From there the word spread pretty quickly. The twigs went back to studying 'the blue book', many people slowly discovered what was really going on, and the 'leadership' scrambled to keep the little people sedate and in the dark. Didn't work.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
To my knowledge, twi never revealed PoP to the fellowships/followers at all. I don't even think it was revealed (officially by twi, at least) to the staff. As hiway29 says, news of it spread pretty quickly in some areas, although in others it was apparently kept hush-hush.
It was first read to the Corps on Corps night, either at the end of March or the beginning of April '86 (I forget the exact date, but I know it was one of those times because it was the first Corps hook-up I went to a week or two after quitting my job at HQ). Then Geer came back in August to read it again to the entire Corps at Corps Week. I skipped out and went to a friend's house, having no desire to sit through it again. I remember coming back to the ROA grounds after Geer finished to see everyone walking around looking stunned.
Someone who was clergy could probably fill in the blanks, but to the best of my memory, Craig had been to Gartmore to see Geer, who either read PoP to him or confronted him regarding its content. Geer's story was that he had to come here and read it to the Corps because Craig had come back to the US and had been talking about it (I think Geer said it originally was supposed to be "lock box," only revealed to the BOT.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Radar OReilly
The corps night telephone hook-up in which Chris Geer first read POP was heard by Corps on the field, that was April 23rd 1986. It was then read to a couple of hundred invited guests in May of 1986 in NK. That year during corps week it was read out loud from under the big top (talk about a horrible week
)
It depended on where people lived, and who the field "managers" were, how much they knew about pop. Some local leadership were very protective of their folks, others made sure everyone knew every jot and tittle.
On March 8th 1988, lcm made his official break with gartmore and sent out that icky "who do you stand with?" letter in which he gave the 50 limb coordinators, all paid field staff which was @ 100, and all of the way corps grads an ultimatum about who they stood with. That event was a defining moment in the history of the way, and really started the mass exodus.
radar
Somewhere around here is a thread entitled "A night that will live in infamy," it is long, but it describes the original reading of POP and the following events.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9569
"Today is the anniversary of what turned out to be the beginning of the end of The Way International, the public release of PASSING OF A PATRIARCH...."
Hey, Radar! Good to see you!
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=8483
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9486
Link to comment
Share on other sites
fooledagainII
Thank Radar that thread gave a lot insight (and ww, for finding/linking it)... should be required reading (just my opinion).
Couple of questions:
What was in the Galatians teachings?
Does anyone know if there is thread out there about this?
What CG problem with Mrs W.? Why did they allow him to speak to Corp at all?
Huh??? Attack dogs... S.W.A.T. training... what in the world was I involved in? What is Illuminati "stuff"?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
polar bear
Of course the MOGs did everything they could to cover up for any dissension in the ranks.
The Galatians tapes were made by LCM to try to bring the allegiance of the masses back to him after many of the leadership had left with their people after POP.
Basically they talked about how the Galatians had been bewitched or fooled into walking in the flesh and not in the spirit.
And that anyone who had not followed what the "father in the word" old Doc Vic had said about the transfer of the mantle to LCM was walking the same way.
One reason I could think of why Mrs. W. didn't like C Geer was because he was the Vicsters bus driver and then became his personal assistant. She was aware of all the woman he funnelled into the coach for the Vicster right outside of the house where Mrs. W lived.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
It's quite possible the illuminati wasn't discussed as much in the late 80's & 90's... but it was popular in twi in the 70's. Below is a short clip about it. (I didn't know about the little owl on the dollar bill. :o ). BTW, I think VP was teaching this stuff in the early 70's way before CG became his consultant.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
It's my understanding that VPW obtained much of his conspiracy "knowledge" through his(documented) direct association with The Liberty Lobby, though he was quite willing to let us believe he got these insights by "revelation". Kinda makes one wonder how much of the ABS secretly funded this stuff.
Here's one of Gary Allen's books.
http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html
Wiki about Liberty Lobby:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
I was fortunate in one way, because in my area, Rhode Island at the time, nearly everyone including the leadership recognized the crap going on at HQ and were told all about it. Many of us subscribed to Geer's publication, Future Considerations, which published POP in installments. At the time we thought he was a prophet. It wasn't until later we found out that Geer was no better than LCM and we pretty much did our own thing locally after that.
What I don't understand is why would Geer work to destroy VP's legacy if he was a devoted follower of his?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
I don't think he was trying to destroy VP's legacy... I think he convinced himself that Craig was destroying VP's legacy and so he, CG, came riding in to rescue the ministry and become the legitimate MOGFODAT to carry on Vic's work.
The truly stupid thing is, both these men were clearly carrying on VPW's true legacy: letchery, backstabbing, and narcissism.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
THAT is an insightful statement. (IMHO)
JT
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Clarke
Apparently Geer and Martindale each thought the other was tearing down VP's legacy. In reality, I think it self-destructed. Gamaliel said it best, in Acts 5, "If this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.