For the most part, the wc that came to the areas where I fellowshipped were great people, down to earth, not into legalism, just into loving God and His people. Fellowship was sweet, the power of God evident in our lives. Maybe it's because of the time frame - pre-LCM and all the "housecleaning". I must say, it never seemed like a cult to me. It was just people loving and helping each other, reaching out for each one to win one (even if they didn't take the class, but just came to fellowship). Things may have been rotten in Ohio, but they were great where I was. I feel very blessed this was the case reading the accounts of how things were elsewhere.
After POP, etc., when things started getting uncomfortable like the M & A stuff, it was an easy decision to leave. I had little ones at home, and more on the way, so focused on that. My leaving was not traumatic in any way. Those of us that were close knit in heart continued to be in frequent contact with each other, and still are. We just left the organization behind, but kept God as our focus.
In the late 70's, early 80's, it was a labor day tradition for a wonderful woman to host a picnic at her home for all the 'believers' in the area. It was a great time of food, volleyball, just hanging out with no time frame and no 'agenda'. Not your typical way get together, which was one reason it was the favorite event of the year.
The corps dude who had been in the area for years enjoyed it as much as anyone. One year he went back to Emporia for 6 months and they sent out a newly ordained corps guy as a replacement. You could almost see the smoke coming out of his head as he tried to process this 'good time' everyone was having. He couldn't stop it, but did his best to ruin it. First thing of course was we had to have a meeting and a teaching, because you don't do anything in the way without teaching the word, right?
He brought the day to a halt, gatherd everyone around, and spent the next hour at least turning it into a branch meeting. He then sent everyone home. In times past , there was no set time, and pockets of people would go late into the night talking and living. This dude would have none of that.
The saddest part was the insult to Babe, the host of the party. A more wonderful believer you never met. She had been healed of ms, and had the purest heart, and up to then had not seen much of the legalism in action. She could care less about the rules.
There's a lot of other stuff this guy pulled in his time here, but that was a big warning shot.
That's what Jim Do*r did to the Hickory, NC area when he came in 1995 ... which was fine with us ... we just all left and are doing our own church (which is much more Godly AND more fun!) ... he was so legalistic he had a set of rules taped to his refrigerator for his children to follow ... snack times outlined, what you could have to eat when, bedtime, when you could come to fellowship (only when invited), and numerous other things. What a loser!
Interesting story; we saw similar things in our area, but not until the 90's. Several woemen in our area were "reproved" for having a get together at one of their houses because it wasn't approved by leadership.
In another recent thread there has been talk about how a "genuine" movement of God seemed to be happening on the local level in individual fellowships, but as soon as the WC were sent to the area the place fell apart.
I myself have seen this happen over and over. Probably one of the reasons why I was so shocked when I found out just how far the corruption went - my little group (when left alone) functioned well - we loved each other, took care of each other, and basically kept our nose out of each other's business (for the most part) until the big shots showed up. Funny, they were sent there because "THE WORD WAS MOVING" and the twigs were multiplying... we needed HELP. But the help they gave decimated the area - and probably resulted in a lot less money for HQ (ironically.)
Was this as common as I think it was? Could this be why there is any following at all now? When you are with a good group of people who care about each other and want to help each other is God at work - even when it is a cult?
When I joined TWI in 2000, there was no trace of genuine love and caring in my Household. Everything was legalistic, TWI doctrine-oriented. This was not only on the part of the leadership, but the Household members, too. Everyone blabbed about "love", but they said and did the most hurtful things to people, then justified it by quoting TWI leaders or spouting about "the Word". Funny thing was, it always seemed to be more about their "Word", not God's. The Fellowship was like a Fraternity clique. The top priority was maintaining the status quo, no matter what. Real fellowship went out the window.
On one hand, I was told "keep in touch with your FC. Let him know what's going on in your life so he can 'help' you." But then he raved and screamed that I was "wasting" his time, and "no one cares what you do, no one wants to listen to YOU." (Actual quotes.) I was expected to sit and keep my mouth shut, though the other members would talk on and on about their jobs, family, problems, etc. I remember thinking "with friends like these, who need enemies???" Heck, I didn't have to drive 45 minutes and give 10 percent of my income to get treated like this! There were plenty of people on the street who'd do it for free, heh!
They knew what they were doing, because they tried to explain it by saying "Everything isn't supposed to be pleasant. Everyone can't be good friends. It's all about The Word" [drum roll] . Well, it's one thing to not be the best of friends, it another to be a jerk.
The FC reminded me of a quote made by a Nazi leader. It ran something like "Give a man with nothing a little power, and he's yours for life!" Yep, that was my TWI leadership. And the Household members were not far behind!
At the very last "fellowship" I attended, the FC was whining with some of the men about not being able to keep people in the Household. "What can we do to keep people?" he lamented. I felt like saying "Not treating them like sh_t might be a good start!"
When I joined TWI in 2000, there was no trace of genuine love and caring in my Household. Everything was legalistic, TWI doctrine-oriented. This was not only on the part of the leadership, but the Household members, too.
At the very last "fellowship" I attended, the FC was whining with some of the men about not being able to keep people in the Household. "What can we do to keep people?" he lamented. I felt like saying "Not treating them like sh_t might be a good start!"
One of the problems with having had such a nice experience prior to the wake up call that is twi leadership is that reconciling the two experiences is so hard to do. I think this is why so many of us put up with things for so long... Hell, I had 15 years of nice times with nice people before things started really turning sour. By that point, I figured it must be my own fault... Why else would something that seemed so nice and had done such great things suddenly go sour? It couldn't possibly be that the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION was all fracked up, could it? Nah... It had to be that I was the one that was sinning.
So, in a way, although it was good, and I saw God work, it made the illusion so much more real. It made it harder to realize that it was time to leave and get out...
Looks like my experience was pretty similar to everyone elses...
In the latter end of the 90s and into the 2000s the ministry would shut down whole areas, towns and cities if there were no corps to send there. They would tell the believers to move to another town where there were corps present to "lead" them.
Where they led them to is the question. (Usually down the drain).
I myself have seen this happen over and over. Probably one of the reasons why I was so shocked when I found out just how far the corruption went - my little group (when left alone) functioned well - we loved each other, took care of each other, and basically kept our nose out of each other's business (for the most part) until the big shots showed up. Funny, they were sent there because "THE WORD WAS MOVING" and the twigs were multiplying... we needed HELP. But the help they gave decimated the area - and probably resulted in a lot less money for HQ (ironically.)
the mass MandAs I saw always came about a month after new corps showed up.
I'm thinking that subconsiuosly, thats we we alywas cried when one set left.
Well that and peer pressure to show how much love you had.
Want to hear something funny.
In the latter end of the 90s and into the 2000s the ministry would shut down whole areas, towns and cities if there were no corps to send there. They would tell the believers to move to another town where there were corps present to "lead" them.
Where they led them to is the question. (Usually down the drain).
really? i wonder if thats what hapened when they told us that everyone in lexington copped out at the same time?
In the latter end of the 90s and into the 2000s the ministry would shut down whole areas, towns and cities if there were no corps to send there. They would tell the believers to move to another town where there were corps present to "lead" them.
Where they led them to is the question. (Usually down the drain).
They did that in Omaha.
During most of the 90's there was a handful of twigs in both Lincoln and Omaha, but no other cities in Nebraska. After WOWs were sent here in '94(?) the number of twigs was inflated somewhat since many of the WOWs stuck around and formed the core of new twigs. Eventually we were down to two twigs in each city (each designated a "branch"), each led by a Corps couple. After all the Corps were shipped out in '97(?) we were part of the South Dakota Limb. Eventually we were absorbed by the Kansas City Branch of the Missouri limb in Lincoln and the Omaha wayfers were told that they should move because Omaha was "dead". Amazingly enough virtually all of them left.
I find it interesting that when I got roped in back in '75, there were NO Corps in Connecticut. Bruce Mah*ne was running the state, and had not entered the corps as yet.The way corps was just a rumor to me. In retrospect, it's too bad they didn't 'shut down' the state in time to keep me from getting involved.
They somehow managed to have quite a 'work' going in Ct and the Univ of Bridgeport, without the almighty corps there to keep it in line. It was probably the only time I didn't feel the oppressive weight of the organization on a daily basis.
True, there weren't many corps grads then-still, '75 seems a little late in the game for a state to have none-but of course the numbers are what they are.
Thankfully not! For awhile I almost began believing it was all a "misunderstanding", but then I saw the writing on the wall and bailed. There is one thing I can't figure out, though. Maybe I just don't know TWI well enough: to make a long story short, I had joined TWI after meeting a girl and going out with her. He parents and TWI did not consider me to be acceptable for her, so they stepped on her to end it. She complied, but we were still close, or at least that's what she told me. When I signed up for the Foundational class, she decided to take it with me. She got closer to me again, calling me three times a day, we went out after the classes, etc. But the day the class ended, she cut off all contact. The Fellowship and Branch leadership stepped in and told me she was "nothing" but my "sister in Christ". Her mother declared that the had only spoken to me in the first place to bring me to The Word. I would never speak to her outside of fellowship again, and even then, only if I "got there early to help set up the chairs". [Thank you sir, can I have another?]Then the whip came down from the Fellowship and Branch leadership, so after this kind of stuff I jumped ship like the last man on the Titanic.
What I have never been able to understand is, why was it so important for me to attend the Foundational class that she would make that sort of subterfuge and effort? Did someone get brownie points? I point-blank asked her mother this question, and she declared that "the Adversary makes every effort to stop people from hearing The Word", so it was important for her daughter to "shepard" me during the class. I thought this was insane. What difference did it make if I took the class, if they were going to treat me so badly afterwards that I quit TWI? At first, I thought maybe my attendance made the Fellowship look good, but on second thought, my subsequent leaving would have negated this.
Is there anything in TWI that explains this, or is it just a case of trying to apply logic to the illogical?
It was a pretty twi thing to do... I was told many times to not date outside of the "household" but to bring any men I met to fellowship and try to get them signed up for the class. Mainly I just used fellowship as a way to get rid of guys I didn't want to continue seeing. I think my logic at the time was that if they really "wanted the Word" they would stick around and might even become someone I would want to date at some point - you know, after they "renewed their minds" and all that. <_<
I don't think I really ever realized how I was being used to get people involved. I used to be pretty uncomfortable trying to get these guys to fellowship when I didn't really want to date them at all... especially when the WC in the area had me almost stalking these guys once they signed up for the class.. God forbid they miss a session - or even worse, get through the class and then skip a branch meeting!! I have to say, in a lot of cases I was actually releived when the guy would finally tell me and twi to go to hell and leave him alone!
I guess from twi's standpoint, they got some money for the class and then maybe some ABS and free labor from you...
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copenhagen
Great point JJ,
I have seen it happen several times.
People with great hearts breaking bread and helping anyway we could.
If anyone needed help, no problam everyone pitched in.
Then an area gets way corp, because it is growing. Might I add doing fine with out.
The wc feels the need to set an example of some poor guy and light him up in
a big meeeting. This then turns in one on ones with familys and singles.
After 2 weeks of meetings everyone turns on eachother, to avoid the wrath of
new leadership.
True story,
2 twigs about 28 people, with kids about 45.
These are faithful believers and add about 5-7 every now and then people.
For the longest time no way corp. Them some are sent.
One guy who was a sold out to the way had a very good job, made 100k easy.
Problam was part of his job was to take out clients and smooze them.
First week he was labled a drinker and told not to go out with his clients and drink.
He put up a fight and tried to explain it was his job.
M & A and trashed.
People were now scared because this guy was commited and now called devil spirit influenced.
Meetings come with every believer and they share one time another believer did this and
the witchhunt begins. Every one was telling all about eachother to keep the heat off them.
Before if you needed help with yard work fire up the bbq and have a work party.
This was replaced required clean the wc home every two weeks.
Before if you need some one to watch the kids, no problam bring them over.
Next thing you know you are watching someones kids because they are being confronted
or watching the wc kids while they confront someone.
Hanging out and witnessing for fun was replaced 2 times a week or else.
One year later 1 twig 12 adults 4 kids and the way corp.
At least it was a clean household.......
copenhagen
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PurpleDays
For the most part, the wc that came to the areas where I fellowshipped were great people, down to earth, not into legalism, just into loving God and His people. Fellowship was sweet, the power of God evident in our lives. Maybe it's because of the time frame - pre-LCM and all the "housecleaning". I must say, it never seemed like a cult to me. It was just people loving and helping each other, reaching out for each one to win one (even if they didn't take the class, but just came to fellowship). Things may have been rotten in Ohio, but they were great where I was. I feel very blessed this was the case reading the accounts of how things were elsewhere.
After POP, etc., when things started getting uncomfortable like the M & A stuff, it was an easy decision to leave. I had little ones at home, and more on the way, so focused on that. My leaving was not traumatic in any way. Those of us that were close knit in heart continued to be in frequent contact with each other, and still are. We just left the organization behind, but kept God as our focus.
PD
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hiway29
In the late 70's, early 80's, it was a labor day tradition for a wonderful woman to host a picnic at her home for all the 'believers' in the area. It was a great time of food, volleyball, just hanging out with no time frame and no 'agenda'. Not your typical way get together, which was one reason it was the favorite event of the year.
The corps dude who had been in the area for years enjoyed it as much as anyone. One year he went back to Emporia for 6 months and they sent out a newly ordained corps guy as a replacement. You could almost see the smoke coming out of his head as he tried to process this 'good time' everyone was having. He couldn't stop it, but did his best to ruin it. First thing of course was we had to have a meeting and a teaching, because you don't do anything in the way without teaching the word, right?
He brought the day to a halt, gatherd everyone around, and spent the next hour at least turning it into a branch meeting. He then sent everyone home. In times past , there was no set time, and pockets of people would go late into the night talking and living. This dude would have none of that.
The saddest part was the insult to Babe, the host of the party. A more wonderful believer you never met. She had been healed of ms, and had the purest heart, and up to then had not seen much of the legalism in action. She could care less about the rules.
There's a lot of other stuff this guy pulled in his time here, but that was a big warning shot.
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DogLover
That's what Jim Do*r did to the Hickory, NC area when he came in 1995 ... which was fine with us ... we just all left and are doing our own church (which is much more Godly AND more fun!) ... he was so legalistic he had a set of rules taped to his refrigerator for his children to follow ... snack times outlined, what you could have to eat when, bedtime, when you could come to fellowship (only when invited), and numerous other things. What a loser!
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Oakspear
hiway29:
Interesting story; we saw similar things in our area, but not until the 90's. Several woemen in our area were "reproved" for having a get together at one of their houses because it wasn't approved by leadership.
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waysider
The life of the ministry The success of an MLM is in the twig. is dependent on the base of the pyramid.
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DocHoliday
When I joined TWI in 2000, there was no trace of genuine love and caring in my Household. Everything was legalistic, TWI doctrine-oriented. This was not only on the part of the leadership, but the Household members, too. Everyone blabbed about "love", but they said and did the most hurtful things to people, then justified it by quoting TWI leaders or spouting about "the Word". Funny thing was, it always seemed to be more about their "Word", not God's. The Fellowship was like a Fraternity clique. The top priority was maintaining the status quo, no matter what. Real fellowship went out the window.
On one hand, I was told "keep in touch with your FC. Let him know what's going on in your life so he can 'help' you." But then he raved and screamed that I was "wasting" his time, and "no one cares what you do, no one wants to listen to YOU." (Actual quotes.) I was expected to sit and keep my mouth shut, though the other members would talk on and on about their jobs, family, problems, etc. I remember thinking "with friends like these, who need enemies???" Heck, I didn't have to drive 45 minutes and give 10 percent of my income to get treated like this! There were plenty of people on the street who'd do it for free, heh!
They knew what they were doing, because they tried to explain it by saying "Everything isn't supposed to be pleasant. Everyone can't be good friends. It's all about The Word" [drum roll] . Well, it's one thing to not be the best of friends, it another to be a jerk.
The FC reminded me of a quote made by a Nazi leader. It ran something like "Give a man with nothing a little power, and he's yours for life!" Yep, that was my TWI leadership. And the Household members were not far behind!
At the very last "fellowship" I attended, the FC was whining with some of the men about not being able to keep people in the Household. "What can we do to keep people?" he lamented. I felt like saying "Not treating them like sh_t might be a good start!"
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doojable
I sure hope you weren't in long.
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JavaJane
One of the problems with having had such a nice experience prior to the wake up call that is twi leadership is that reconciling the two experiences is so hard to do. I think this is why so many of us put up with things for so long... Hell, I had 15 years of nice times with nice people before things started really turning sour. By that point, I figured it must be my own fault... Why else would something that seemed so nice and had done such great things suddenly go sour? It couldn't possibly be that the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION was all fracked up, could it? Nah... It had to be that I was the one that was sinning.
So, in a way, although it was good, and I saw God work, it made the illusion so much more real. It made it harder to realize that it was time to leave and get out...
Looks like my experience was pretty similar to everyone elses...
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excathedra
If God's there, great! (I love him a lot and his Son my lord and savior)
Just watch out you don't think if veepee is there, God is there
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polar bear
Want to hear something funny.
In the latter end of the 90s and into the 2000s the ministry would shut down whole areas, towns and cities if there were no corps to send there. They would tell the believers to move to another town where there were corps present to "lead" them.
Where they led them to is the question. (Usually down the drain).
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nick
the mass MandAs I saw always came about a month after new corps showed up.
I'm thinking that subconsiuosly, thats we we alywas cried when one set left.
Well that and peer pressure to show how much love you had.
really? i wonder if thats what hapened when they told us that everyone in lexington copped out at the same time?
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Oakspear
During most of the 90's there was a handful of twigs in both Lincoln and Omaha, but no other cities in Nebraska. After WOWs were sent here in '94(?) the number of twigs was inflated somewhat since many of the WOWs stuck around and formed the core of new twigs. Eventually we were down to two twigs in each city (each designated a "branch"), each led by a Corps couple. After all the Corps were shipped out in '97(?) we were part of the South Dakota Limb. Eventually we were absorbed by the Kansas City Branch of the Missouri limb in Lincoln and the Omaha wayfers were told that they should move because Omaha was "dead". Amazingly enough virtually all of them left.
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hiway29
I find it interesting that when I got roped in back in '75, there were NO Corps in Connecticut. Bruce Mah*ne was running the state, and had not entered the corps as yet.The way corps was just a rumor to me. In retrospect, it's too bad they didn't 'shut down' the state in time to keep me from getting involved.
They somehow managed to have quite a 'work' going in Ct and the Univ of Bridgeport, without the almighty corps there to keep it in line. It was probably the only time I didn't feel the oppressive weight of the organization on a daily basis.
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cheranne
Twig in OKC in 78 was great.
Then TWI no longer was a Jesus movement it became more like a Bowel Movement!!!
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JavaJane
Maybe we should start calling it BMI instead of twi?
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Mark Clarke
That was before the Passing Of Our Patriarch (P.O.O.P.)!
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cheranne
Thats a good one !! Kudos Mark!!!
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Oakspear
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hiway29
True, there weren't many corps grads then-still, '75 seems a little late in the game for a state to have none-but of course the numbers are what they are.
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JavaJane
Aren't there about 30 active WC now??
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WordWolf
Possibly about that many. Graduating classes have been in the single digits for some time now.
I still remember reading about graduating classes of FIVE.
twi, of course, doesn't say "5 people graduated"- they talked about "20%" of the grads moving onto
THIS activity, and "20%" moving onto another. BTW, 20% of 5 means ONE grad.
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DocHoliday
Thankfully not! For awhile I almost began believing it was all a "misunderstanding", but then I saw the writing on the wall and bailed. There is one thing I can't figure out, though. Maybe I just don't know TWI well enough: to make a long story short, I had joined TWI after meeting a girl and going out with her. He parents and TWI did not consider me to be acceptable for her, so they stepped on her to end it. She complied, but we were still close, or at least that's what she told me. When I signed up for the Foundational class, she decided to take it with me. She got closer to me again, calling me three times a day, we went out after the classes, etc. But the day the class ended, she cut off all contact. The Fellowship and Branch leadership stepped in and told me she was "nothing" but my "sister in Christ". Her mother declared that the had only spoken to me in the first place to bring me to The Word. I would never speak to her outside of fellowship again, and even then, only if I "got there early to help set up the chairs". [Thank you sir, can I have another?]Then the whip came down from the Fellowship and Branch leadership, so after this kind of stuff I jumped ship like the last man on the Titanic.
What I have never been able to understand is, why was it so important for me to attend the Foundational class that she would make that sort of subterfuge and effort? Did someone get brownie points? I point-blank asked her mother this question, and she declared that "the Adversary makes every effort to stop people from hearing The Word", so it was important for her daughter to "shepard" me during the class. I thought this was insane. What difference did it make if I took the class, if they were going to treat me so badly afterwards that I quit TWI? At first, I thought maybe my attendance made the Fellowship look good, but on second thought, my subsequent leaving would have negated this.
Is there anything in TWI that explains this, or is it just a case of trying to apply logic to the illogical?
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JavaJane
Hey, Doc...
It was a pretty twi thing to do... I was told many times to not date outside of the "household" but to bring any men I met to fellowship and try to get them signed up for the class. Mainly I just used fellowship as a way to get rid of guys I didn't want to continue seeing. I think my logic at the time was that if they really "wanted the Word" they would stick around and might even become someone I would want to date at some point - you know, after they "renewed their minds" and all that. <_<
I don't think I really ever realized how I was being used to get people involved. I used to be pretty uncomfortable trying to get these guys to fellowship when I didn't really want to date them at all... especially when the WC in the area had me almost stalking these guys once they signed up for the class.. God forbid they miss a session - or even worse, get through the class and then skip a branch meeting!! I have to say, in a lot of cases I was actually releived when the guy would finally tell me and twi to go to hell and leave him alone!
I guess from twi's standpoint, they got some money for the class and then maybe some ABS and free labor from you...
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