I was "keenly" interested in the bible before twi...I was "intensely" interested during twi...and today...I don't read it.
My opinion of what the bible is has changed from my twi days...drastically.
I understand the information from that book that I need to...it's time to put down the book and live what you know to be true...knowing God is not about studying a book...it's about living the truth that is within you.
...Wierwille replaced "knowing Christ" with an academic approach to becoming "spiritual"...been there, done that.
hey, if reading one of the psalms late at night, soothes your soul...by all means, do it...I'm just saying that twi had it wrong and it's time to move on...time to live it instead of studying it.
Since I'm still relatively new here, and I have no idea how I am going to do it, my interest in the bible currently is to unlearn all the crap I learned from twi.  I'm not even sure of what is the crap and what is not, unraveling what I think the bible is and what it is saying about God is a mountain I've been dreading to climb.  It is something I must do, but I have no clue on where to start.
A good place to start is by questioning everything...
if Wierwille DID teach anything right...it was only because he stole it from somebody else...the first thing you should get rid of is the "law of believing"...it's wrong and it's destructive.
this website is loaded with good info in regrds to your quest...
Thanks Groucho, you've offered me good advise...definitely the "law" of believing is bunk, this website has been very helpful so far, its just that when I read the bible, so much of my critical thinking skills, when I do read, are based on wierwille pretzel logic, I fear it will taint everything I might ever read, I don't think I trust my presumptions on the bilble anymore. Â So much of what I knew that I knew, is now what I thought I knew, after the information here on GS has proven it wrong...I do want to go through everything and see for myself what the bible says.
Thanks again Groucho, your thoughts are appreciated..
Anyone who strongly and unequivocally states their opinion can be considered insulting. A non-believer might state that he no longer is superstitious nor is he an idiot who follows foolish religions. The believer might be insulted, feeling that he is being called a superstitious, idiotic fool. A believer might just as strongly and unequivocally state their theistic belief, implying that non-believers are blind, willfully ignorant and hate God. There are folks on both endes of the "believing" spectrum who shun diplomacy.
So, it's not that you made a conscious decision then to read it less? Out of curiousity, do you still attend a place of worship or Bible study of some kind? I ask because (only in my opinion) it seemed that the Bible was only secondary to some in TWI. The social aspect came first. (Looking for somewhere to belong?) The Bible "stuff" was secondary. Lose the social aspect and maybe the rest goes away too. Not sure if I'm saying that well... Hope it makes sense.
JT
After I got chucked out I was under major condemnation. LCM had managed to cut the Book from us ("It has nothing to say but reproof to those who walk away!" - don't forget to add the yelling and spit flying out of his mouth) and after 4 years of in-rez and WC training, reproof was something that I'd had in sackfuls (once even for just being happy). I couldn't handle reading the Bible at all for a long time. Actually I couldn't handle life at all - but that's another story.
I try to LIVE what I know - not read about it all the time [and then do something different, TWI-style]. I don't NEED any more words to read - I need to know how to APPLY the words that I've already read. So I ponder the paths of my feet and take it easy with myself. Then when I am unsure or realize I don't quite remember it all about some particular thing, then I read the book more.
I go to an Anglican church which is very laid-back, no conventional liturgy. The first few months I went, tears poured down my face at every sermon. I was so happy to be "home" in a place where there were other Christians. Their beliefs/views often conflict with my TWI taught/influenced beliefs and now I enjoy reading and some study to see how their views might have been formed and whether and where I need to change my own.
And the pleasure of just reading OT adventures or whatever is returning.
I never went to twig for the social aspect.
But church has a social aspect and some of them are so unlearned about the Bible it's painful.
I am new to the forum and wanted to comment that I appreciate the honesty with which this issue is being addressed, both by those who believe in God and those who in the sorting-out process have reached the conclusion that God does not exist. I was only in the Way a short time, through the fall of 1985 and spring of 1986, and during that time saw what some of you described -- how Greek and Hebrew were used to dupe, and sometimes intimidate us into believing we couldn't question the experts. That said, since leaving Twi I still have a deep and long-standing interest in studying Scripture and to a lesser extent the Greek and Hebrew. I think this was mainly because of some Presbyterian friends in the peace movement who took me under their wing after I left Twi and let me vent as I began the sorting-out process and even wrestled with what translation to read (for quite some time I couldn't bring myself to open a KJV especially the book of Acts and the writings of Paul .. because immediately the Way interpretations would come immmediately to mind.)
On a separate note, today I got through listening to the John Juedes interview about the Law of Believing and could have cried when he brought up the illustration V. P,. Wierwille used of the little boy who got run over by a car in which the mother's fear was blamed for the little boy's death. Has there been any discussion of the Law of Believing on the forums? Though John Lynn and CES did much to debunk this dangerous teaching, it never really occurred to me till Dr. Juedes pointed it out how dependent a lot of Twi's other teachings in the PFAL course were on the Law of Believing.
Does anyone think that people speak of the same things in that they spoke of and more? Meaning whatever they were speaking of....whether we understand what they were talking about or not, (not my point), are these things still spoken of and about today?
. I think this was mainly because of some Presbyterian friends in the peace movement who took me under their wing after I left Twi and let me vent as I began the sorting-out process and even wrestled with what translation to read (for quite some time I couldn't bring myself to open a KJV especially the book of Acts and the writings of Paul .. because immediately the Way interpretations would come immmediately to mind.)
Different versions work for different people, for different reasons.
You probably know this, but there's three rough categories of versions:
1) Paraphrases (that give the basic meaning, like The Message, The Living Bible, and so on)
2) Concept for concept (that attempt to translate each concept, like the NIV, and so on)
3) Word for word (that attempt to translate each word, like the KJV, the RSV, and so on)
If you're looking for a direct, word for word, but NOT the KJV, I'll recommend the NASB,
the New American Standard Bible.
It's got the italics, but it uses more documentation (discovered in the past decades and centuries),
uses plain English, and attempts to use words consistently- meaning a word translates into ONE
English word EACH time it's used-at least, that's the goal.)
If you don't like it, then, fine, use what works for you.
On a separate note, today I got through listening to the John Juedes interview about the Law of Believing and could have cried when he brought up the illustration V. P,. Wierwille used of the little boy who got run over by a car in which the mother's fear was blamed for the little boy's death. Has there been any discussion of the Law of Believing on the forums? Though John Lynn and CES did much to debunk this dangerous teaching, it never really occurred to me till Dr. Juedes pointed it out how dependent a lot of Twi's other teachings in the PFAL course were on the Law of Believing.
We've discussed the HECK out of this one. In the "About The Way" forum and the Doctrinal
forum, plus the Archives, there's a LOT of discussion on it, from all sorts of discussions.
Generally speaking, the positions tend to polarize between 3 of them:
1) vpw was a great man who understood deep principles, and the "Law" of Believing is indeed a "Law"
2) vpw was a great man who was misunderstood and didn't mean it was a "Law" when he called it that
3) the "Law" of Believing is no "Law" and works nothing like vpw said it did
Most posters tend to fall into the third category.
To the group member from New York City, hi, and thanks for the welcome! I have used both the NIV and the NASb, found that I liked both! There is a free Bible software at http://www.e-sword.net which has seemingly every translation imaginable -- though as a totally blind person who uses a screen reader the interlinear layout can be a bit confusing. As to the law of believing, I would tend to fall in the third category, with the added observation that it is similar to the positive confession the Word of Faith teachers promote on TBN, with much the same results for people who don't get healed. One book I read after leaving TWI which may not be in print anymore is Dan R. McConnel's A Different Gospel. While it had nothing to do with Twi per se, it discussed the Faith teachers' reliance on Kennyon and the devastating results when people take doctrines like Positive Confession to their logical extreme. By the way, I love the Elie Wiesel quote at the end of your post; it really struck a chord with me!
I am new to the forum and wanted to comment that I appreciate the honesty with which this issue is being addressed, both by those who believe in God and those who in the sorting-out process have reached the conclusion that God does not exist. I was only in the Way a short time, through the fall of 1985 and spring of 1986, and during that time saw what some of you described -- how Greek and Hebrew were used to dupe, and sometimes intimidate us into believing we couldn't question the experts. That said, since leaving Twi I still have a deep and long-standing interest in studying Scripture and to a lesser extent the Greek and Hebrew. I think this was mainly because of some Presbyterian friends in the peace movement who took me under their wing after I left Twi and let me vent as I began the sorting-out process and even wrestled with what translation to read (for quite some time I couldn't bring myself to open a KJV especially the book of Acts and the writings of Paul .. because immediately the Way interpretations would come immmediately to mind.)
On a separate note, today I got through listening to the John Juedes interview about the Law of Believing and could have cried when he brought up the illustration V. P,. Wierwille used of the little boy who got run over by a car in which the mother's fear was blamed for the little boy's death. Has there been any discussion of the Law of Believing on the forums? Though John Lynn and CES did much to debunk this dangerous teaching, it never really occurred to me till Dr. Juedes pointed it out how dependent a lot of Twi's other teachings in the PFAL course were on the Law of Believing.
Welcome to Grease Spot, Aball001 !
I hear ya on TWI's interpretations coming to mind as you read KJV. I was in TWI for 12 years. I've found as I progressed in personal study AND explored other viewpoints [systematic theologies, commentaries, discussions on Grease Spot and some Christian websites] – those annoying TWI pop-ups were squeezed out by my own developing viewpoint. There's a lot to be said for learning how to read intelligently. And to that, I recommend How to Read a Bookby Mortimer Adler & Charles Van Doren.
That book reminds me of a very simple idea I came across in another book and that is - read the Bible as you would any other book [from Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft & Ronald Tacelli]. For in doing so – I think our mind takes on a more active role in processing stuff. I do believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that the Holy Spirit oversees the written Word and speaks to every searching soul – but I also take very seriously any Scripture directives that encourage the reader to engage the mind, reflect, meditate, etc.
I've read KJV so much - that still to this day, it's quicker for me to recall a KJV phrase and look it up in a Strong's Concordance [ I recommend The Strongest Strong's fully revised and corrected by John Kohlenberger and James Swanson]. Since I left TWI in 86, my favorite version was NIV [that's some useful stuff by Word Wolf in post # 38] but has been eclipsed by NASB. I have about 34 different versions of the Bible on my shelf [some just NT] and a bunch more on software. But for comparative study purposes, I often use two handy books: The Comparative Study Bible with NIV, KJV, NASB, & Amplified and The Essential Evangelical Parallel Bible with NKJV, ESV, NLT, & The Message.
As far as commentaries go, I find the Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary by Kenneth Barker & John Kohlenberger affordable, handles key Greek & Hebrew words and since it is an abridgement of the 12 volume set Expositor's Bible Commentary [which I also have in software form], it doesn't get bogged down with a lot of cumbersome technical stuff.
There's some good systematic theologies out there [there's a few I highly recommend – if anyone's interested, PM me – as it is this post is way too long already - my apologies to Just Thinking and everyone else on this thread…actually it's just a poll…man oh man, I'm outta control here!...but I haven't posted much lately, and I gots to keep up with my quota dontcha know ] – but there's one I especially like – again it's affordable and simple: More Than Redemption: A Theology of Christian Counseling by Jay Adams. Doctrine affects practice – and much of this book got me to look at the practical impact of doctrine.
With regards to your mentioning "the law of believing" – one of the first books I read after leaving TWI was Beyond Seduction: A Return to Biblical Christianity by Dave Hunt. It gets into certain deceptive doctrines and is still very timely today, IMHO. Not long after I left I found myself quoting from it quite a bit in letters to those in my Family Corps.
I think the question should be do you still love God as much before and after twi.
As for studying the bible I think I've done enough to last a lifetime.
My interest now is to live it rather than study it.
I definitely think you're spot on about the importance of living your faith, especially in the good and compassionate things you do when no one is looking. One need only look at 1 Cor. 13 to understand that knowledge alone is not enough -- and indeed in some cases in The Way and in other spiritually abusive churches as well, there tends to be a general feeling of superiority, e.g. that one has a corner on truth, or the rigor with which certain Scriptures are applied, as if there were classes of have's and have-nots. One of the fellowship groups that broke away from TWI recently put up a teaching on compassion, which the speaker correctly describes as a proactive thing. When one has to be told over and over again how compassionate somebody is, I have to wonder./quote]
There's some good systematic theologies out there [there's a few I highly recommend – if anyone's interested, PM me – as it is this post is way too long already - my apologies to Just Thinking and everyone else on this thread…actually it's just a poll…man oh man, I'm outta control here!...but I haven't posted much lately, and I gots to keep up with my quota dontcha know ] – but there's one I especially like – again it's affordable and simple: More Than Redemption: A Theology of Christian Counseling by Jay Adams. Doctrine affects practice – and much of this book got me to look at the practical impact of doctrine.
I'm good. This is actually good info. (IMHO) It also gives me a better answer than just a poll. I really was curious what the lasting impact was. It is a bit surprising to see that more people gained interest than lost. For those who came into TWI as a christian, I'm glad to see there were some positive outcomes.
Hi, M. L. Kent! Don't feel too bad about not having the correct translation to bring to class. In 1985 Mom got me a dramatized Kjv for Christmas, something I'd wanted since they'd begun advertising it on Tv, but the only ways to have access to the Scriptures for me at the time were through Braille and cassette tape. When I came to class, I didn't bring a Bible like my sighted peers. They transcribed the books for me in Braille, were a little late getting them but I was still thrilled to be able to follow along.
I am more than a little chagrined to see this thread...
In 1978 my dad asked me what I wanted for christmas...
I asked for the Oxford Revised Standard Version of the Bible...(annotated, with the apocrypha)and...
A bottle fo Drambuie to drink with my girlfriend (who introduced me to Drambuie the prior year)
In 1979...I took a class called PFAL...and for the life of me I could not understand why the gift from MY DAD was not the right text for the class...
I sat through all of the sessions with the "wrong" bible... (I was give a Gideons KJV for the 9th or 10th Session to help me "follow the text")
Nearly thirty years later, I still have the same Bible, (and 5 others) but the Drambuie is gone...
I used to enjoy Drambuie once and a while. After reading posts here in Greasespot, I can not drink Drambuie. (It gives me the heebe jeebies)
but I am content to read and study the bible... But sparingly, and, perhaps with more "fear and reverance" than ever before...
M L Kent
Hey, don't feel bad about having the wrong translation! Before I took PFAL, that year at Christmas Mom got me a dramatized KJV on tape, something I really wanted to have ever since the ads for it appeared on Tv. I am totally blind, and the only two ways to have access to the Scriptures then were in Braille, which was much too cumbersome and on tape. When I attended class, I was unusual in that I didn't have a Bible with me at all or the means with which to take notes. They transcribed the books in Braille for the course. I was thrilled becausef God in Romney, WV, had been the only two who cared if the same literature my sighted peers were using was accessible. my Sunday school teachers in WV, one who taught first and second grade at the Baptist church and another one at the Church oFear and reverence are not bad things -- though I like what one poster here said about not being afraid to read f God in Romney, WV, most hadn't seemed to care if I had access to the same material my sighted peers were using.
WayWorld temporarily prompted me to suspend my disbelief. But, eventually, I returned to my true self.
Some may find reality unpleasant to live in, but, whadda ya gonna do?
Religion is Bull...., get over it already...
Actually your type of responses are why religion itself is not bull..... IF we are doing what we need to be doing, then we don't need religion to help us stop being our own worst enemy, but some of us obviously need the structure provided by religion to stifle our baser impulses.
Even our agnostic foreign exchange student was aware that the environment of a "religious" family was probably better than one that was not.
but some of us obviously need the structure provided by religion to stifle our baser impulses.
"obviously"? Really? Do you think that - without the threat of holy retribution - you would fly off into fits of unsavory behavior and debauchery? Or is it just lesser people, who don't have your degree of discipline that would?
Personally, I've noticed ZERO difference in how I act or the amount of empathy or charity I exhibit, or even in how I think or act towards others. Also, with friends and acquaitances who've either abandoned their faith, or adopted a newer, more improved version of one, their outward actions don't really demonstrate any discernable difference.
If all that's keeping us from bashing each other's heads in, is the thought that one day a Holy Thunderer is going to give us our just deserts, we're in serious trouble...
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excathedra
i chose the last option (was there one?) -- i'm probably with geo, i'm guessing
i wasn't really interested in the bible, per se, it was all the promises of finding real love, a real father, etc.
i am not into the bible right now but i do talk to god every day, but i did that before twi
and i will never join anything
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polar bear
I think the question should be do you still love God as much before and after twi.
As for studying the bible I think I've done enough to last a lifetime.
My interest now is to live it rather than study it.
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RumRunner
Well said polar bear - couldn't agree more
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GrouchoMarxJr
As far as the topic of this thread...
I was "keenly" interested in the bible before twi...I was "intensely" interested during twi...and today...I don't read it.
My opinion of what the bible is has changed from my twi days...drastically.
I understand the information from that book that I need to...it's time to put down the book and live what you know to be true...knowing God is not about studying a book...it's about living the truth that is within you.
...Wierwille replaced "knowing Christ" with an academic approach to becoming "spiritual"...been there, done that.
hey, if reading one of the psalms late at night, soothes your soul...by all means, do it...I'm just saying that twi had it wrong and it's time to move on...time to live it instead of studying it.
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now I see
Since I'm still relatively new here, and I have no idea how I am going to do it, my interest in the bible currently is to unlearn all the crap I learned from twi.  I'm not even sure of what is the crap and what is not, unraveling what I think the bible is and what it is saying about God is a mountain I've been dreading to climb.  It is something I must do, but I have no clue on where to start.
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GrouchoMarxJr
now I see...
A good place to start is by questioning everything...
if Wierwille DID teach anything right...it was only because he stole it from somebody else...the first thing you should get rid of is the "law of believing"...it's wrong and it's destructive.
this website is loaded with good info in regrds to your quest...
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now I see
Thanks Groucho, you've offered me good advise...definitely the "law" of believing is bunk, this website has been very helpful so far, its just that when I read the bible, so much of my critical thinking skills, when I do read, are based on wierwille pretzel logic, I fear it will taint everything I might ever read, I don't think I trust my presumptions on the bilble anymore. Â So much of what I knew that I knew, is now what I thought I knew, after the information here on GS has proven it wrong...I do want to go through everything and see for myself what the bible says.
Thanks again Groucho, your thoughts are appreciated..
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Oakspear
Anyone who strongly and unequivocally states their opinion can be considered insulting. A non-believer might state that he no longer is superstitious nor is he an idiot who follows foolish religions. The believer might be insulted, feeling that he is being called a superstitious, idiotic fool. A believer might just as strongly and unequivocally state their theistic belief, implying that non-believers are blind, willfully ignorant and hate God. There are folks on both endes of the "believing" spectrum who shun diplomacy.
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Twinky
After I got chucked out I was under major condemnation. LCM had managed to cut the Book from us ("It has nothing to say but reproof to those who walk away!" - don't forget to add the yelling and spit flying out of his mouth) and after 4 years of in-rez and WC training, reproof was something that I'd had in sackfuls (once even for just being happy). I couldn't handle reading the Bible at all for a long time. Actually I couldn't handle life at all - but that's another story.
I try to LIVE what I know - not read about it all the time [and then do something different, TWI-style]. I don't NEED any more words to read - I need to know how to APPLY the words that I've already read. So I ponder the paths of my feet and take it easy with myself. Then when I am unsure or realize I don't quite remember it all about some particular thing, then I read the book more.
I go to an Anglican church which is very laid-back, no conventional liturgy. The first few months I went, tears poured down my face at every sermon. I was so happy to be "home" in a place where there were other Christians. Their beliefs/views often conflict with my TWI taught/influenced beliefs and now I enjoy reading and some study to see how their views might have been formed and whether and where I need to change my own.
And the pleasure of just reading OT adventures or whatever is returning.
I never went to twig for the social aspect.
But church has a social aspect and some of them are so unlearned about the Bible it's painful.
I echo Polar Bear's statement above.
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aball001
I am new to the forum and wanted to comment that I appreciate the honesty with which this issue is being addressed, both by those who believe in God and those who in the sorting-out process have reached the conclusion that God does not exist. I was only in the Way a short time, through the fall of 1985 and spring of 1986, and during that time saw what some of you described -- how Greek and Hebrew were used to dupe, and sometimes intimidate us into believing we couldn't question the experts. That said, since leaving Twi I still have a deep and long-standing interest in studying Scripture and to a lesser extent the Greek and Hebrew. I think this was mainly because of some Presbyterian friends in the peace movement who took me under their wing after I left Twi and let me vent as I began the sorting-out process and even wrestled with what translation to read (for quite some time I couldn't bring myself to open a KJV especially the book of Acts and the writings of Paul .. because immediately the Way interpretations would come immmediately to mind.)
On a separate note, today I got through listening to the John Juedes interview about the Law of Believing and could have cried when he brought up the illustration V. P,. Wierwille used of the little boy who got run over by a car in which the mother's fear was blamed for the little boy's death. Has there been any discussion of the Law of Believing on the forums? Though John Lynn and CES did much to debunk this dangerous teaching, it never really occurred to me till Dr. Juedes pointed it out how dependent a lot of Twi's other teachings in the PFAL course were on the Law of Believing.
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cman
Does anyone think that people speak of the same things in that they spoke of and more? Meaning whatever they were speaking of....whether we understand what they were talking about or not, (not my point), are these things still spoken of and about today?
Is it still being spoke of and more?
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WordWolf
Hello, Aball.
Enjoy your stay.
Different versions work for different people, for different reasons.You probably know this, but there's three rough categories of versions:
1) Paraphrases (that give the basic meaning, like The Message, The Living Bible, and so on)
2) Concept for concept (that attempt to translate each concept, like the NIV, and so on)
3) Word for word (that attempt to translate each word, like the KJV, the RSV, and so on)
If you're looking for a direct, word for word, but NOT the KJV, I'll recommend the NASB,
the New American Standard Bible.
It's got the italics, but it uses more documentation (discovered in the past decades and centuries),
uses plain English, and attempts to use words consistently- meaning a word translates into ONE
English word EACH time it's used-at least, that's the goal.)
If you don't like it, then, fine, use what works for you.
We've discussed the HECK out of this one. In the "About The Way" forum and the Doctrinal
forum, plus the Archives, there's a LOT of discussion on it, from all sorts of discussions.
Generally speaking, the positions tend to polarize between 3 of them:
1) vpw was a great man who understood deep principles, and the "Law" of Believing is indeed a "Law"
2) vpw was a great man who was misunderstood and didn't mean it was a "Law" when he called it that
3) the "Law" of Believing is no "Law" and works nothing like vpw said it did
Most posters tend to fall into the third category.
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waysider
Hello, aball001
Welcome to the cafe.
Yes, there have been several threads that deal specifically with believing.
You can find them using the search feature.
I even started one a while ago called "It happened to me" or something like that.
It's an open invitation for people to discuss incidents that specifically demonstrated the "law" of believing at work.
In other words, state your anecdote and show how it is directly connected to the "law" of believing.
If it (the "law" of believing) is really valid, one would suppose there wouldn't be enough cyberspace to contain it.
The thread, however, died a rather quick and lackluster death.
Anyhow, I hope you stick around awhile.
First cup of coffee is on the house.
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aball001
To the group member from New York City, hi, and thanks for the welcome! I have used both the NIV and the NASb, found that I liked both! There is a free Bible software at http://www.e-sword.net which has seemingly every translation imaginable -- though as a totally blind person who uses a screen reader the interlinear layout can be a bit confusing. As to the law of believing, I would tend to fall in the third category, with the added observation that it is similar to the positive confession the Word of Faith teachers promote on TBN, with much the same results for people who don't get healed. One book I read after leaving TWI which may not be in print anymore is Dan R. McConnel's A Different Gospel. While it had nothing to do with Twi per se, it discussed the Faith teachers' reliance on Kennyon and the devastating results when people take doctrines like Positive Confession to their logical extreme. By the way, I love the Elie Wiesel quote at the end of your post; it really struck a chord with me!
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T-Bone
Welcome to Grease Spot, Aball001 !
I hear ya on TWI's interpretations coming to mind as you read KJV. I was in TWI for 12 years. I've found as I progressed in personal study AND explored other viewpoints [systematic theologies, commentaries, discussions on Grease Spot and some Christian websites] – those annoying TWI pop-ups were squeezed out by my own developing viewpoint. There's a lot to be said for learning how to read intelligently. And to that, I recommend How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler & Charles Van Doren.
That book reminds me of a very simple idea I came across in another book and that is - read the Bible as you would any other book [from Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft & Ronald Tacelli]. For in doing so – I think our mind takes on a more active role in processing stuff. I do believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that the Holy Spirit oversees the written Word and speaks to every searching soul – but I also take very seriously any Scripture directives that encourage the reader to engage the mind, reflect, meditate, etc.
I've read KJV so much - that still to this day, it's quicker for me to recall a KJV phrase and look it up in a Strong's Concordance [ I recommend The Strongest Strong's fully revised and corrected by John Kohlenberger and James Swanson]. Since I left TWI in 86, my favorite version was NIV [that's some useful stuff by Word Wolf in post # 38] but has been eclipsed by NASB. I have about 34 different versions of the Bible on my shelf [some just NT] and a bunch more on software. But for comparative study purposes, I often use two handy books: The Comparative Study Bible with NIV, KJV, NASB, & Amplified and The Essential Evangelical Parallel Bible with NKJV, ESV, NLT, & The Message.
As far as commentaries go, I find the Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary by Kenneth Barker & John Kohlenberger affordable, handles key Greek & Hebrew words and since it is an abridgement of the 12 volume set Expositor's Bible Commentary [which I also have in software form], it doesn't get bogged down with a lot of cumbersome technical stuff.
There's some good systematic theologies out there [there's a few I highly recommend – if anyone's interested, PM me – as it is this post is way too long already
- my apologies to Just Thinking and everyone else on this thread…actually it's just a poll…man oh man, I'm outta control here!...but I haven't posted much lately, and I gots to keep up with my quota dontcha know 
] – but there's one I especially like – again it's affordable and simple: More Than Redemption: A Theology of Christian Counseling by Jay Adams. Doctrine affects practice – and much of this book got me to look at the practical impact of doctrine.
With regards to your mentioning "the law of believing" – one of the first books I read after leaving TWI was Beyond Seduction: A Return to Biblical Christianity by Dave Hunt. It gets into certain deceptive doctrines and is still very timely today, IMHO. Not long after I left I found myself quoting from it quite a bit in letters to those in my Family Corps.
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aball001
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excathedra
I have to wonder about any group that broke away from TWI.
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JustThinking
I'm good.
This is actually good info. (IMHO) It also gives me a better answer than just a poll. I really was curious what the lasting impact was. It is a bit surprising to see that more people gained interest than lost. For those who came into TWI as a christian, I'm glad to see there were some positive outcomes.
JT
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egilkent
I am more than a little chagrined to see this thread...
In 1978 my dad asked me what I wanted for christmas...
I asked for the Oxford Revised Standard Version of the Bible...(annotated, with the apocrypha)and...
A bottle fo Drambuie to drink with my girlfriend (who introduced me to Drambuie the prior year)
In 1979...I took a class called PFAL...and for the life of me I could not understand why the gift from MY DAD was not the right text for the class...
I sat through all of the sessions with the "wrong" bible... (I was give a Gideons KJV for the 9th or 10th Session to help me "follow the text")
Nearly thirty years later, I still have the same Bible, (and 5 others) but the Drambuie is gone...
I used to enjoy Drambuie once and a while. After reading posts here in Greasespot, I can not drink Drambuie. (It gives me the heebe jeebies)
but I am content to read and study the bible... But sparingly, and, perhaps with more "fear and reverance" than ever before...
M L Kent
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aball001
Hi, M. L. Kent! Don't feel too bad about not having the correct translation to bring to class. In 1985 Mom got me a dramatized Kjv for Christmas, something I'd wanted since they'd begun advertising it on Tv, but the only ways to have access to the Scriptures for me at the time were through Braille and cassette tape. When I came to class, I didn't bring a Bible like my sighted peers. They transcribed the books for me in Braille, were a little late getting them but I was still thrilled to be able to follow along.
Hey, don't feel bad about having the wrong translation! Before I took PFAL, that year at Christmas Mom got me a dramatized KJV on tape, something I really wanted to have ever since the ads for it appeared on Tv. I am totally blind, and the only two ways to have access to the Scriptures then were in Braille, which was much too cumbersome and on tape. When I attended class, I was unusual in that I didn't have a Bible with me at all or the means with which to take notes. They transcribed the books in Braille for the course. I was thrilled becausef God in Romney, WV, had been the only two who cared if the same literature my sighted peers were using was accessible. my Sunday school teachers in WV, one who taught first and second grade at the Baptist church and another one at the Church oFear and reverence are not bad things -- though I like what one poster here said about not being afraid to read f God in Romney, WV, most hadn't seemed to care if I had access to the same material my sighted peers were using.
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waysider
Hi, aball001
I got a set of those tapes as well, although I am a sighted person.
It seems I love to read but my eyes tire rather quickly.
I listened to them while I was driving and whatnot.
If I recall correctly, they were vocalized by Alexander Scourbie.
Somewhere in my basement, they are packed in a box.
They are on rather worn cassette tapes.
I'm sure by now they must be available on CD or on-line.
Do you still have yours?
Coincidentally, I am originally from NE Ohio as well.
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WhiteDove
Ok, the Bible is accounted for, the Drambuie is gone, now inquiring minds want to know what happened to the girlfriend?
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Tzaia
Actually your type of responses are why religion itself is not bull..... IF we are doing what we need to be doing, then we don't need religion to help us stop being our own worst enemy, but some of us obviously need the structure provided by religion to stifle our baser impulses.
Even our agnostic foreign exchange student was aware that the environment of a "religious" family was probably better than one that was not.
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George Aar
"obviously"? Really? Do you think that - without the threat of holy retribution - you would fly off into fits of unsavory behavior and debauchery? Or is it just lesser people, who don't have your degree of discipline that would?
Personally, I've noticed ZERO difference in how I act or the amount of empathy or charity I exhibit, or even in how I think or act towards others. Also, with friends and acquaitances who've either abandoned their faith, or adopted a newer, more improved version of one, their outward actions don't really demonstrate any discernable difference.
If all that's keeping us from bashing each other's heads in, is the thought that one day a Holy Thunderer is going to give us our just deserts, we're in serious trouble...
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