And why, on any single thread about the Bible/Christ/God, et al., do you have to make your nasty remarks regarding people (inferior idiots who believe in the sky god, we are so stupid in your sight), God (he's a jerk), the Bible (its bull$$it) and on and on. I think we all know how you feel by now.
There are some great aetheist boards my may really enjoy. They do great mockery of God, Christ, and the Bible on them and you'd fit right in. You can all rage together against the God you don't believe in and who doesn't exist.
People try and be polite with you and you continue drop your little turd re your hatred of God in any thread you are in.
Before TWI I felt lost in a big world because I thought I needed to know the path of life a little before I set out on it (well, at least how the path got there and where I was supposed to be headed)... simply put, I wanted to know about God and the Bible because I was afraid of the unknown.
I just don't feel that way anymore. I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, so I simply don't worry about it. I look at the world's belief systems and see that they all say roughly the same thing about themselves (they have the truth, and God is on their side) and I know that if I discount one, I must logically discount them all. So I discount none. Because while I think spirituality is important, I think religion is bogus. But if religion helps people find their spirituality, then who am I to judge?
The same thing that's always brought me grief, I was chasing some skirt.
And why, on any single thread about the Bible/Christ/God, et al., do you have to make your nasty remarks regarding people (inferior idiots who believe in the sky god, we are so stupid in your sight), God (he's a jerk), the Bible (its bull$$it) and on and on. I think we all know how you feel by now.
O.K., I'll tone it down a little. Religion is B.S. IMHO. I think it would be much wiser to only believe that which can be reasonably substantiated, and I would encourage you in that direction, were you to ask.
There, all better?
There are some great aetheist boards my may really enjoy. They do great mockery of God, Christ, and the Bible on them and you'd fit right in. You can all rage together against the God you don't believe in and who doesn't exist.
Yeah, but this board is about MY cult, the one I wasted the best years of my life with. Gosh, it's just so special.
People try and be polite with you.
They do? hmmm
And no, there's no hatred of God, just a realization that religion (and magical thinking in general) is a tremendously destructive force in the world. I think that fact deserves a little airtime along with the mythology, no? And, yes, I was rude. It's a dirty job...
No problem, I was just asking. I know you have personally insulted me on doctrinal threads, and wondered why you just had to be, I don't know, you seem particularly angry. I can see being angry about this little cornfield cult we were all in - youth wasted, time lost, but I wonder why you seem to have an angry attitude towards anyone who does believe. Anytime God or the Bible is mentioned you in particular have something mean to say. I've noticed the other aethists here don't.
So, just sayin. I've often wondered how people who didn't believe in the first place ended up in TWI, and even in the corps. If I didn't believe, even chasing someone would never have kept me in, especially if I didn't believe in God. I wouldn't have been able to stand it.
Is it really God you hate, or the people?
If God, how can you personally hate and have anger towards what does not exist?
There are some great aetheist boards my may really enjoy. They do great mockery of God, Christ, and the Bible on them and you'd fit right in. You can all rage together against the God you don't believe in and who doesn't exist.
There are also some great Christian boards, that those so inclined, might enjoy...
The GSC is not a Christian website...Posters are encouraged to think for themselves and to feel free to express those opinions...
There are rules against certain types of behavior here...being atheist is not one of them.
Seems to me that if certain folks want to publicly proclaim the particulars of their faith, they should expect to see opposing views...in fact, they should WELCOME opposing views...afterall, who wants to promote groupthink?
...and if "atheistic remarks" that are sprinkled into a "praise and worship" thread bothers people...maybe they SHOULD check out a Christian board?...I honestly don't think that George would follow anyone there...
I welcome opposing views, I always have. Its also nice for those with opposing views to be respectful too - works both ways.
There's one aethiest on the doctrinal forums, who in the thread title says he doesn't believe in God (fine - I don't care if someone does or doesn't), that is why he's no longer irrational and superstitious. I.e., those who do believe are irrational and superstitious. That is insulting to those who do believe.
There are many wonderful Christian websites, and some pretty awful ones.
I know GS is not a Christian site, we all do. That still doesn't mean that those who believe are to be continually insulted or looked down upon.
There's just as much smug arrogance and self-righteousness in the hardcore aethiest as there is the hardcore fundy - there's no difference. Their anger and hate are the same.
That also means those who don't believe are to be insulted either.
I have to go with Groucho here. I am not an atheist but if George is, then that is his choice. It does not make him any less capable of interacting on most forums here although I'm sure he wouldn't interact much with the doctrinal ones where scripture and verse are often discussed in a distinctly Christian fashion.
On the other I hand I am, bu no means, someone who will get into a scriptural discussion with people. I have my belief system which I would dare to call Christian in nature - but I don't think I could ever be part of any kind of meeting type organization again.
GSC, thankfully, is not an organization, nor does it have meetings. People who are still of that system are also welcome to "get things going" on GSC - eg the weenie roasts - a meeting was organized - and by all accounts the folks in Texas had a great time.
I think there is plenty of room for the variety that exists here - and probably room for more.
There are also some great Christian boards, that those so inclined, might enjoy...
The GSC is not a Christian website...Posters are encouraged to think for themselves and to feel free to express those opinions...
There are rules against certain types of behavior here...being atheist is not one of them.
Seems to me that if certain folks want to publicly proclaim the particulars of their faith, they should expect to see opposing views...in fact, they should WELCOME opposing views...afterall, who wants to promote groupthink?
...and if "atheistic remarks" that are sprinkled into a "praise and worship" thread bothers people...maybe they SHOULD check out a Christian board?...I honestly don't think that George would follow anyone there...
Interested in a different way now. Or perhaps it was that TWI derailed my interest.
I try to read it for pleasure, interest, understanding and application.
I specifically try to avoid reading it to understand the Greek/Hebrew/other words.
Rarely read KJV (too many connotations) but I miss the notes in the Companion Bible.
Now I read a variety of other versions, some of which are wild (The Message), some of which are bland (NIV) and occasionally some which are questionable (NLT)
However, the pre-WC days when I would spend a morning lounging in the sun engrossed in some OT book (just for pleasure) seem to have vanished.
I believe the Bible has truths, but not that it is THE truth. People still have to excercise their hearts, minds, conscience and be honest.
In a bully's hands it becomes a bully's rule book, in a nurturer's hands it becomes a book of nurture. It's not the book, it's the heart and life of the person holding it that matters, IMO.
Normally I'm not an enthusiastic poll responder at all, more like an anti-poller actually, but this one you started I really like.
For me, my time in TWI was short enough that my interest in the Bible never wained at all, it only grew. I think if I had suffered as others have at TWI's hands that might not be the case however.
After TWI I was involved with a little splinter group that deliberately did all they could do to break my spirit and ruin my life, and during that experience I've come to rely on the Bible even more than ever before. In that respect I am thankful. It's not been easy however.
Well, if Rumrunner's gonna chime in with Groucho, I'm going to have to chime in with Sunesis. (Where's that chiming-in emoticon when I need it?) Maybe we could get a coed tag-team mud-wrestling match started!
I would bet that one of the most frequently repeated phrases on GS is "This is not a Christian Web site." If I had a few dollars for every time someone reminds us of that fact, I'd be sitting in a lounge chair on my favorite Lake Erie island sipping iced tea instead of sitting here writing this, because I could quit my job.
My mental response when I see those words again (and again) is "And?" It's also not an athiest site or a Republican site or a women's site or an African-American site or Caucasian site or a straight people's site or a gay people's site or a Catholic site or a Geerite site or....you get the picture.
Unless someone is jamming Christianity and/or the Bible down someone else's throat, why the need for that old worn-out reminder? Sunesis is a smart woman. As she's stated, she knows this isn't a Christian Web site. She wasn't questioning George's right to be an atheist or criticizing him for that. She wasn't trying to beat him over the head with her Bullinger's. She was simply questioning his smug-sounding tone--that "give up your stupid superstitious beliefs and be brilliant like me" tone.
I have no other beef with George. I think he's funny and smart. I realize that he has to maintain his position as resident curmudgeon, and he does a damn good job of that. But, like Sunesis, I would like it better if he didn't state/infer/imply that anyone who is still a Christian is an idiot.
I have never butted into a thread on "Why I'm an atheist" or into any similar threads trying to disparage the people posting there who are atheists or agnostics or whatever, and to my knowledge neither has Sunesis. Why would we? I figure people can be and believe/not believe whatever they want. I'm certainly not their judge, and I really don't care. Getting the same respect in return would be nice, but then so would winning the lottery.
Thanks Linda for your genuine and honest reply. You and I have known each other long enough to disagree and not make it vitriolic - and for that I am thankful, as opposed to the so many other adversarial conversations that seem to go on here. Always appreciate your input.
Thanks, RR, and I always appreciate yours, too. In fact, I appreciate hearing all sorts of opinions and views. It's much more interesting than the old forced "likemindedness," isn't it?
I was somewhat interested in the bible pre-TWI but couldn't make heads nor tales out of it. Post-TWI I have a high level of interest, as I have all along, maybe more.
Involvement in TWI didn't hinder or hurt my interest, it actually fed it and kindled it.
But what's this about George being an atheist? When did that start?
Yeah, I don't know where the atheist title comes from either. Nor do I get the "hate" part either.
Hell, I don't hate much of anything I can think of right off hand (well, except maybe Country/Western).
I can be a pretty condescending jerk when I feel like it though. That should count for something, huh?
I DON"T think that religious thought - or any other line of thinking that has basically nothing to back it up (alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, Loch Ness Monsters, etc.) is any sort of highmark on humanity's collective virtue scale though. And I greatly regret every millisecond I wasted persuing such nonsense. YMMV...
So, I'm sorry I got cranky with you. But, well, you know the rest...
Well George you need an interest in the bible to learn new things if you want to.
Just cuz we got burned by twi doesn't mean some things are not still worth the trouble of searching for.
Depends on your interests I suppose.
But if your proof of whatever is good enough for you, I say that's cool.
There are others who seek not to prove to others but to themselves things that you either are not interested in, or have decided that are not real. Same goes for anyone, including me.
---
My interest in the bible is secondary to my interest in what they were talking about.
Which cannot be seen in the words of the bible itself.
In other words I'm not ever going into some sort of biblical research to find a thing.
But I will not exclude it from input either.
Nor will I exclude things I have not seen or experienced that I have heard.
Normally I'm not an enthusiastic poll responder at all, more like an anti-poller actually, but this one you started I really like.
For me, my time in TWI was short enough that my interest in the Bible never wained at all, it only grew. I think if I had suffered as others have at TWI's hands that might not be the case however...
I feel the same way. I have always been interested in Biblical studies and enjoyed discussions about it. But I quickly learned that my Household did not encourage discussions, and in fact, they seemed very threatened by it. I'll never forget when the Branch Coordinator pulled me aside for a private discussion to "get to know more about [me]." I was enthusiastic describing the Biblical topics I was researching at that time, and he began looking distinctly uncomfortable. Finally he commented "It will be...ah.... interesting.... to see where you go with your knowledge." He and his wife had several of these private "disscussions" with me, and it was only in retrospect that I understood what was happening.
When I left TWI it was sort of like being "unleashed" to study and discuss whatever I wanted to! It was great! But like you, I think if I had stayed n TWI longer it might have affected my interest negatively.
TWI was more of a head/ego trip and I had my face so close to the picture all I could see was the dots. Now I understand it is not so much about where the comma is, but about serving the Creator "God". This process to this point has taken approximately 30 years. Although GSC as we have been so informed is not a Christian thread I have been inspired and much of what I have learned has only been confirmed either by those of you who manifest....love, joy, peace (you get the picture) or strife, bitterness, contention etc. I am more convinced than ever that we need a Savior.
Interested in a different way now. Or perhaps it was that TWI derailed my interest.
I try to read it for pleasure, interest, understanding and application.
I specifically try to avoid reading it to understand the Greek/Hebrew/other words.
Rarely read KJV (too many connotations) but I miss the notes in the Companion Bible.
Now I read a variety of other versions, some of which are wild (The Message), some of which are bland (NIV) and occasionally some which are questionable (NLT)
However, the pre-WC days when I would spend a morning lounging in the sun engrossed in some OT book (just for pleasure) seem to have vanished.
So, it's not that you made a conscious decision then to read it less? Out of curiousity, do you still attend a place of worship or Bible study of some kind? I ask because (only in my opinion) it seemed that the Bible was only secondary to some in TWI. The social aspect came first. (Looking for somewhere to belong?) The Bible "stuff" was secondary. Lose the social aspect and maybe the rest goes away too. Not sure if I'm saying that well... Hope it makes sense.
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cheranne
I was always intrested in spiritual things ,religions of the world, and all. But..after twi I was obsessed to the point of
researching EVERYTHING!!!!!
I didn't think that was very healthy either,and after I left I was still in that identity of research ,I tried to be "NORMAL"
but I guess I just did pfal too many times ,twig,wow and ate, slept and I was like this transformer robots in disguise.
really a freaking headache to undo(as many of us here at gs know I am sure)
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George Aar
Zero interest before, zero after.
WayWorld temporarily prompted me to suspend my disbelief. But, eventually, I returned to my true self.
Some may find reality unpleasant to live in, but, whadda ya gonna do?
Religion is Bull...., get over it already...
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Sunesis
So George, what got you in? Just curious.
And why, on any single thread about the Bible/Christ/God, et al., do you have to make your nasty remarks regarding people (inferior idiots who believe in the sky god, we are so stupid in your sight), God (he's a jerk), the Bible (its bull$$it) and on and on. I think we all know how you feel by now.
There are some great aetheist boards my may really enjoy. They do great mockery of God, Christ, and the Bible on them and you'd fit right in. You can all rage together against the God you don't believe in and who doesn't exist.
People try and be polite with you and you continue drop your little turd re your hatred of God in any thread you are in.
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TheHighWay
Before TWI I felt lost in a big world because I thought I needed to know the path of life a little before I set out on it (well, at least how the path got there and where I was supposed to be headed)... simply put, I wanted to know about God and the Bible because I was afraid of the unknown.
I just don't feel that way anymore. I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, so I simply don't worry about it. I look at the world's belief systems and see that they all say roughly the same thing about themselves (they have the truth, and God is on their side) and I know that if I discount one, I must logically discount them all. So I discount none. Because while I think spirituality is important, I think religion is bogus. But if religion helps people find their spirituality, then who am I to judge?
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T-Bone
Without all the rules and regs of TWI, my interest in the Bible has definitely increased after I left. Ah, freedom...it's a beautiful thing!
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George Aar
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Sunesis
No problem, I was just asking. I know you have personally insulted me on doctrinal threads, and wondered why you just had to be, I don't know, you seem particularly angry. I can see being angry about this little cornfield cult we were all in - youth wasted, time lost, but I wonder why you seem to have an angry attitude towards anyone who does believe. Anytime God or the Bible is mentioned you in particular have something mean to say. I've noticed the other aethists here don't.
So, just sayin. I've often wondered how people who didn't believe in the first place ended up in TWI, and even in the corps. If I didn't believe, even chasing someone would never have kept me in, especially if I didn't believe in God. I wouldn't have been able to stand it.
Is it really God you hate, or the people?
If God, how can you personally hate and have anger towards what does not exist?
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GrouchoMarxJr
There are also some great Christian boards, that those so inclined, might enjoy...
The GSC is not a Christian website...Posters are encouraged to think for themselves and to feel free to express those opinions...
There are rules against certain types of behavior here...being atheist is not one of them.
Seems to me that if certain folks want to publicly proclaim the particulars of their faith, they should expect to see opposing views...in fact, they should WELCOME opposing views...afterall, who wants to promote groupthink?
...and if "atheistic remarks" that are sprinkled into a "praise and worship" thread bothers people...maybe they SHOULD check out a Christian board?...I honestly don't think that George would follow anyone there...
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Sunesis
I welcome opposing views, I always have. Its also nice for those with opposing views to be respectful too - works both ways.
There's one aethiest on the doctrinal forums, who in the thread title says he doesn't believe in God (fine - I don't care if someone does or doesn't), that is why he's no longer irrational and superstitious. I.e., those who do believe are irrational and superstitious. That is insulting to those who do believe.
There are many wonderful Christian websites, and some pretty awful ones.
I know GS is not a Christian site, we all do. That still doesn't mean that those who believe are to be continually insulted or looked down upon.
There's just as much smug arrogance and self-righteousness in the hardcore aethiest as there is the hardcore fundy - there's no difference. Their anger and hate are the same.
That also means those who don't believe are to be insulted either.
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brideofjc
Having been duped by those who claimed to know Greek and Hebrew....
Learned it for myself....
Praise God!
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RumRunner
I have to go with Groucho here. I am not an atheist but if George is, then that is his choice. It does not make him any less capable of interacting on most forums here although I'm sure he wouldn't interact much with the doctrinal ones where scripture and verse are often discussed in a distinctly Christian fashion.
On the other I hand I am, bu no means, someone who will get into a scriptural discussion with people. I have my belief system which I would dare to call Christian in nature - but I don't think I could ever be part of any kind of meeting type organization again.
GSC, thankfully, is not an organization, nor does it have meetings. People who are still of that system are also welcome to "get things going" on GSC - eg the weenie roasts - a meeting was organized - and by all accounts the folks in Texas had a great time.
I think there is plenty of room for the variety that exists here - and probably room for more.
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Twinky
Interested in a different way now. Or perhaps it was that TWI derailed my interest.
I try to read it for pleasure, interest, understanding and application.
I specifically try to avoid reading it to understand the Greek/Hebrew/other words.
Rarely read KJV (too many connotations) but I miss the notes in the Companion Bible.
Now I read a variety of other versions, some of which are wild (The Message), some of which are bland (NIV) and occasionally some which are questionable (NLT)
However, the pre-WC days when I would spend a morning lounging in the sun engrossed in some OT book (just for pleasure) seem to have vanished.
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Bramble
I believe the Bible has truths, but not that it is THE truth. People still have to excercise their hearts, minds, conscience and be honest.
In a bully's hands it becomes a bully's rule book, in a nurturer's hands it becomes a book of nurture. It's not the book, it's the heart and life of the person holding it that matters, IMO.
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JeffSjo
Hi JustThinking,
Normally I'm not an enthusiastic poll responder at all, more like an anti-poller actually, but this one you started I really like.
For me, my time in TWI was short enough that my interest in the Bible never wained at all, it only grew. I think if I had suffered as others have at TWI's hands that might not be the case however.
After TWI I was involved with a little splinter group that deliberately did all they could do to break my spirit and ruin my life, and during that experience I've come to rely on the Bible even more than ever before. In that respect I am thankful. It's not been easy however.
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Linda Z
Well, if Rumrunner's gonna chime in with Groucho, I'm going to have to chime in with Sunesis. (Where's that chiming-in emoticon when I need it?) Maybe we could get a coed tag-team mud-wrestling match started!
I would bet that one of the most frequently repeated phrases on GS is "This is not a Christian Web site." If I had a few dollars for every time someone reminds us of that fact, I'd be sitting in a lounge chair on my favorite Lake Erie island sipping iced tea instead of sitting here writing this, because I could quit my job.
My mental response when I see those words again (and again) is "And?" It's also not an athiest site or a Republican site or a women's site or an African-American site or Caucasian site or a straight people's site or a gay people's site or a Catholic site or a Geerite site or....you get the picture.
Unless someone is jamming Christianity and/or the Bible down someone else's throat, why the need for that old worn-out reminder? Sunesis is a smart woman. As she's stated, she knows this isn't a Christian Web site. She wasn't questioning George's right to be an atheist or criticizing him for that. She wasn't trying to beat him over the head with her Bullinger's. She was simply questioning his smug-sounding tone--that "give up your stupid superstitious beliefs and be brilliant like me" tone.
I have no other beef with George. I think he's funny and smart. I realize that he has to maintain his position as resident curmudgeon, and he does a damn good job of that. But, like Sunesis, I would like it better if he didn't state/infer/imply that anyone who is still a Christian is an idiot.
I have never butted into a thread on "Why I'm an atheist" or into any similar threads trying to disparage the people posting there who are atheists or agnostics or whatever, and to my knowledge neither has Sunesis. Why would we? I figure people can be and believe/not believe whatever they want. I'm certainly not their judge, and I really don't care. Getting the same respect in return would be nice, but then so would winning the lottery.
Edited to fix a dyslexic lapse.
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RumRunner
Thanks Linda for your genuine and honest reply. You and I have known each other long enough to disagree and not make it vitriolic - and for that I am thankful, as opposed to the so many other adversarial conversations that seem to go on here. Always appreciate your input.
Best,
RR
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Linda Z
Thanks, RR, and I always appreciate yours, too. In fact, I appreciate hearing all sorts of opinions and views. It's much more interesting than the old forced "likemindedness," isn't it?
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socks
I was somewhat interested in the bible pre-TWI but couldn't make heads nor tales out of it. Post-TWI I have a high level of interest, as I have all along, maybe more.
Involvement in TWI didn't hinder or hurt my interest, it actually fed it and kindled it.
But what's this about George being an atheist? When did that start?
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Linda Z
Hahahahahahahahahahaha Socks.
Nice to see ya...missed you!
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George Aar
Yeah, I don't know where the atheist title comes from either. Nor do I get the "hate" part either.
Hell, I don't hate much of anything I can think of right off hand (well, except maybe Country/Western).
I can be a pretty condescending jerk when I feel like it though. That should count for something, huh?
I DON"T think that religious thought - or any other line of thinking that has basically nothing to back it up (alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, Loch Ness Monsters, etc.) is any sort of highmark on humanity's collective virtue scale though. And I greatly regret every millisecond I wasted persuing such nonsense. YMMV...
So, I'm sorry I got cranky with you. But, well, you know the rest...
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cman
Well George you need an interest in the bible to learn new things if you want to.
Just cuz we got burned by twi doesn't mean some things are not still worth the trouble of searching for.
Depends on your interests I suppose.
But if your proof of whatever is good enough for you, I say that's cool.
There are others who seek not to prove to others but to themselves things that you either are not interested in, or have decided that are not real. Same goes for anyone, including me.
---
My interest in the bible is secondary to my interest in what they were talking about.
Which cannot be seen in the words of the bible itself.
In other words I'm not ever going into some sort of biblical research to find a thing.
But I will not exclude it from input either.
Nor will I exclude things I have not seen or experienced that I have heard.
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DocHoliday
I feel the same way. I have always been interested in Biblical studies and enjoyed discussions about it. But I quickly learned that my Household did not encourage discussions, and in fact, they seemed very threatened by it. I'll never forget when the Branch Coordinator pulled me aside for a private discussion to "get to know more about [me]." I was enthusiastic describing the Biblical topics I was researching at that time, and he began looking distinctly uncomfortable. Finally he commented "It will be...ah.... interesting.... to see where you go with your knowledge." He and his wife had several of these private "disscussions" with me, and it was only in retrospect that I understood what was happening.
When I left TWI it was sort of like being "unleashed" to study and discuss whatever I wanted to! It was great! But like you, I think if I had stayed n TWI longer it might have affected my interest negatively.
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jeast
JustThinking, Thanks for starting this thread.
TWI was more of a head/ego trip and I had my face so close to the picture all I could see was the dots. Now I understand it is not so much about where the comma is, but about serving the Creator "God". This process to this point has taken approximately 30 years. Although GSC as we have been so informed is not a Christian thread I have been inspired and much of what I have learned has only been confirmed either by those of you who manifest....love, joy, peace (you get the picture) or strife, bitterness, contention etc. I am more convinced than ever that we need a Savior.
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JustThinking
So, it's not that you made a conscious decision then to read it less? Out of curiousity, do you still attend a place of worship or Bible study of some kind? I ask because (only in my opinion) it seemed that the Bible was only secondary to some in TWI. The social aspect came first. (Looking for somewhere to belong?) The Bible "stuff" was secondary. Lose the social aspect and maybe the rest goes away too. Not sure if I'm saying that well... Hope it makes sense.
JT
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