One must wonder what this discussion would be like had the incident taken place under the auspices of, let's say, a bass fishing club. And, suppose the villainous person at the heart of it been some joker named Hector Szublefrickenhumptypup.
Would "The Bible" still play a key role in the discussion? And what about Mr. Zsublefrickenhumptypup?
Back to the thread's topic regarding this second interview... Thanks again to Paw and Kristen. I can hardly imagine how challenging it must be to "go on the record" with your story, Kristen. And as difficult as it may be for some people to stomach listening to this sad story, I think it is important to listen. It speaks to many issues surrounding how something like this happens, denial being one of the most powerful ones.
As humans, when we invest our hearts in a cause we believe to be true, we want so badly for it to be true that we'll avoid considering any doubts about its value, often to our own disadvantage, or even our own destruction. Take any intro psychology class and you'll probably learn this or browse the aisle of the self-help section at Borders and you'll see dozens of books on this topic of denial, not to mention cult awareness books...
BTW: Other sources of info that happend to help me leave The Way in 1987:
The Way International and Victor Paul Wierwille published in 1979 by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, written by J.L. Williams, ISBN 0-8024-9233-9. It's a little paperback of 159 pages including cult info references, notes, bibliography etc. I first found it in a used bookstore in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1986. It helped me get out of The Way and understand some major issues, and although some of the theological points discussed are not ones I necessarily agreed with, the writer helped open my eyes to some things.
In 1987, a friend recommended reading From Ashes to Gold by Patti Roberts, which tells of her experiences at Oral Roberts University (there are some similarities with The Way Corps training, etc.). She describes her disillusionment with the cause and her eventual divorce from Oral Robert's son, Richard. Although I did not (nor do now) espouse many of her religious beliefs, her understanding of the power that Oral Roberts had over her life and how the groupthink of the organization controlled her were things I could relate to first-hand. To her credit, she began questioning and stood up for herself, got out and started a new life.
Needless to say, I'm surely thankful you did, too, Kristen.
Right, I don't need to be tolerant of unbelief , you are a reminder to me of what I never want to become........ Enough said
Of course I am...I have been where you are now...and I understand. I understand that twi taught people to "close the trap door"...which in reality meant..."Let us tell you how to think and what to believe. Eliminate all other avenues for truth for they are a danger to you"
...sounds like a recipe for brainwashing to me...especially when one considers that the source of this information came from a man of despicable behavior. Doesn't the bible lay out the requirements for the behavior of a legitimate minister?...have you ever considered that you have been led astray by a wolf in sheeps clothing?...Oh, that's right...you are intolerant of thoughts contrary to what you been been programmed to believe...
...But yes, back to the topic.
Thank you Kristen for having the courage to tell what happened...to those of us who have ears to hear.
Yes-------- the ability to admit to yourself that your "hero" was a second rate flim-flam man who used the scriptures deceitfully in order to satisfy his own lustful perversions. Even in his grave, he continues to "use" you to further his perversion of the so called "Truth".
Read again WD for you certainly do NOT have this clear for the record. I said PM's abound not that I was PMing. In point of fact I have neither sent nor replied to any PM's about you. Hence the first part of your premise is wrongly accusative. Secondly, since I didn't send any, then I cannot be wearing that as a "badge of achievement." Thirdly you further an incorrect assumption with the words "It's pretty telling that you talk about someone behind their back." Fourthly, since you don't know me, you have no idea about my grasp of truth. Fifthly, I have stepped up to the mic - my posts have been forthright and public whether you agree with them or not. Finally if you are referring to my claims about the sexually predatory nature that was Victor Wierwille - those claims are substantiated by many people who were the first hand recipients of his sexual abuse as well as others who were witness of that nature and yet not participants whether willingly or unwillingly. I will give you only one point of agreement - and that is that I too would hold in low esteem anyone who resorted to speaking behind other's back.
Now - back to our regularly scheduled program - Thanks again Kris for your outpouring of honest. I'm sure that that interview was not pleasant.
Geeze WD - I don't recall pigeonholing you - WHICH IS YOUR OBVIOUS INTENT TO INTIMATE. Your dishonesty is most flamboyant. Sweet sweet child - go back to your delusions of what God really is - we are all most entertained here - the PM's abound...[
WOW let me get this clear for the record. Your big achievement is that you talk about someone behind their back in Pm's And you wear this as a badge of achievement. Personally I'd be embarrassed to admit such a thing in public. It's pretty telling that you talk about someone behind their back, what a fine attribute to seek after. I see why you struggle with grasping truth now. Why don't you step up to the mic and have the guts to speak face to face? Is it you fear not being able to support your weak claims?
Oldiesman and White Dove have both made the point that the character of the person speaking truth from the Bible does not negate that truth. This is true. As they have said, "truth is truth no matter who speaks it." The point of discussion is not whether or not the Word that VPW preached (or wrote) was true (although much of what he said was doctrinally wrong, but that has been handled in other threads). The point of discussion in this thread is the character of the so-called "Man of God" and specifically how it relates to the experiences of Kris Skedgell.
Now I don't share Geo's skepticism about the integrity of the Bible, so I wouldn't say that you (or we) only believe the Bible because someone told you to. But here's another point to consider. The entire Christian world believes in Jesus Christ based on the words of eyewitnesses (skeptics who doubt the veracity of the Gospels notwithstanding). We cannot "prove" that those events took place. We accept the words of the eyewitnesses because they have proven to be reliable, even going to their death rather than denying what they have seen.
For that matter, neither can we "prove" that any historical events took place. We can't even "prove" with 100% certainty that current events take place, but base our acceptance on the reliability of eyewitnesses. If you want to take it further, in philosophy and metaphysics you can't even "prove" absolutely that you exist. The point is that even in a court of law, "proof" only needs to be "beyond reasonable doubt." Kristen's testimony (at least the one incident that she read in the excerpt) cannot be "proven" since only two people were there and one of them is dead. But we're talking "reasonable doubt." Even if VP were alive and he denied that Kristen's testimony was true, we would then have to decide who was the more reliable witness. Her testimony jives with that of many other witnesses who have had similar experiences, while VP has in many cases been proven to be a liar. On what do you base your decision to have a "reasonable doubt" that the event was not as Kris described it? Remember, we are talking about the character of the man in question, not whether the Bible he taught was true.
Right now the problem that I have with White Dove's post (in part) is that he thinks that this fellowship we have and the things that we share are not true apparently. He's stated that it's o.k. to hold on to bluebook doctrine, but he doesn't seem to think twice about deliberately following a line of reasoning that is off-topic instead of doing the decent thing and starting another thread that would deal with the issues with which he's concerned.
IMO this type of behavior never was just TWI's leadership behavior, but has been the standard behavior for religious bigots for centuries. I believe it is trained behavior first taught by this twisted individual, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille as it relates to TWI.
What I mean by Religious bigots is that some people think it's O.K. that they step all over people's hearts and lives in order to make their all-important (to them anyway) points.
(This paragraph will be all sarcasm)
After all, what the heck, it's just a broken hearted, battered, bruised individual that they are tromping all over. Everybody knows that God doesn't care for them, after all , those poor sappy victims only had it happen to THEM because THEY ARE AT FAULT. Besides, the KING OF THE SCUMBAGS that taught me the bible even managed to quote scriptures correctly while he bided his time in between young ladies who he wanted to f-ck. So please don't forget you poor saps that my king of the scumbags also managed to quote bible verses.
PHAH!!
White Dove,
I am suggesting to everybody that they learn to SEE this in your posts so that they never,ever, ever go that way themselves. Because in my opinion, your posts are indecent and unbiblical and OFF-TOPIC.
As far as truth goes, IMO you seriously need to consider these things that TWI victims say as being true along with what the king of the scumbags taught you.
DWBH, I totally disagree. When scriptural truth i.e., the Word of God as we understand scriptural truth to be, is spoken by a hypocrite, a monster, a sinner, a bum, etc., it doesn't negate the scriptural truth. Truth is truth! If the Pharisees (some of who were hypocrites, sinners, killers, etc.) taught people to follow the ten commandments, does it negate the 10 commandments? Of course not!
If Adolph Hitler says "Jesus Christ is the son of God, the Messiah, the Lord" ... , old Adolph would be correct, NO?
Am I missing something?
Yes you are.
The whole context of what DWBH is saying that the one speaking is a hypocrite...the truths are negated as spoken by that man, not negated as "truth".
DWBH is smart enough to realize that any "truth" does not magically evaporate from an arrangement of words if a dirtbag utters them.
I dunno.. if that's what it took for me to separate myself from a lying, plagiarizing, thieving, adulterous, incestuous sob.. I'd say it- "I do not believe"..
"sorry jacko.. sell your ineffective nonsense somewhere else.."
even a "dumb" animal can chew it's leg off to get out of the trap..
DWBH, I totally disagree. When scriptural truth i.e., the Word of God as we understand scriptural truth to be, is spoken by a hypocrite, a monster, a sinner, a bum, etc., it doesn't negate the scriptural truth. Truth is truth! If the Pharisees (some of who were hypocrites, sinners, killers, etc.) taught people to follow the ten commandments, does it negate the 10 commandments? Of course not!
So when Satan quoted scripture to Jesus he was speaking truth? Hmmmm... you might want to re-think that.
He spoke the words. The scripture was quoted, but so out of context that there was no truth in them. Words of truth were used to deceive. Seems that intent and character do come into play and do need to be considered.
As I recall it's referred to as "Jesus being tempted."
The point is that tricky vic knew just enough scripture to deceive and tempt.
So when Satan quoted scripture to Jesus he was speaking truth? Hmmmm... you might want to re-think that.
He spoke the words. The scripture was quoted, but so out of context that there was no truth in them. Words of truth were used to deceive. Seems that intent and character do come into play and do need to be considered.
As I recall it's referred to as "Jesus being tempted."
The point is that tricky vic knew just enough scripture to deceive and tempt.
Good point dooj...It's only fitting that a biblical illustration of this point be presented to the bible thumpers...What is truth?..."thy word is truth"...was satan speaking the "word" when Jesus was tempted?...sure he was. So the question is...was Wierwille EVER sincere when he taught the scriptures?...my answer is WHO CARES!
He lost the right for me to even care what he said...Who knows, maybe Jeffery Dahmer was speaking bible verses also when they bashed his head into the porcelin crapper until he was dead...guess what? I don't care what Dahmer said either.
How about Jim Jones...or David Koresh?...I'm sure they read the bible verses to their followers...Personally, I think that MOST of what Wierwille taught was wrong and I'm a Christian...but WHY would anyone still be interested in anything that man had to say?...he was extremely narcisstic, had total disregard for others, was a sexual pervert, lied in God's name, and hurt a lot of people...and you still think that his "teachings" have any value?
I removed posts by White Dove and oldiesman. They took an important subject and did a bait and switch which they are both good at doing. It violated the forum rules and mission of GS. Their utter disrespect for a victim is sickening.
Thank you, everyone, for listening with such intensity to the podcast. The discussions are eye-opening and harrowing. Thank you for your compassion. I'm so sorry to think that anyone else was "V-Porized" like I was. As for the book, I think this is the low point, well, it gets worse but THEN it gets better! So fear not. We all got through it and survived. That's the important thing. Now onto thriving. If anyone wants to write me privately, my e-mail address is kskedgell@gmail.com. be well, all of you. love, kristen
Kris, thank you again for sharing - ignore the two goobers who always show up. Paw thanks for deleting them.
Excie my friend, you have absolutely nothing, ever, to be ashamed of. You go girl!!!
I found it amazing Kris, that his answer to your pain and misery was that you were possessed. Don't talk that way or we won't be able to have good times (sex). I really think he just wanted you to shut up and wanted to continue the good times (according to him). I even think, he wouldn't have cared if you had taken your life, he just would have missed the good times, told everyone you were possessed, and then found someone else. He had absolutely no clue as to how to respond. His only response was sex - please him. What a psychopath, I believe he was beyond narcissism.
The bit about the rings is interesting. I have a feeling he gave them to his special ladies who felt honored wearing them. It was almost like he got a kick out of seeing them - like they were his secret wives, or secret harem. Sick.
I'm not sure what to make of the rings thing. To me, at least, it seems to suggest a serial nature to his deeds. We've probably all seen these TV shows where the serial killer keeps an ear or a finger or lock of hair from each victim. I think it was probably along those same lines. Scary, though, that he had a whole bunch of them yet to be given away. You have to wonder if he eventually gave them away and to whom.
I shared a while back about a night that I spent with vp where for some reason I escaped the honor of being molested by the "mog". That night he gave me a broach that he had brought back from the holy land. It was a mother of pearl star of David surrounded by filagree. I thought at the time that he probably gave them out to people to "bless them". It sounds like it could be part of his modus operandi YUCK!
I want to echo thanks to Kristen and Pawtucket for speaking about this. It takes bravery to deal with experiences like this, and even more to go public.
The Way International and Victor Paul Wierwille published in 1979 by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, written by J.L. Williams, ISBN 0-8024-9233-9. It's a little paperback of 159 pages including cult info references, notes, bibliography etc. I first found it in a used bookstore in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1986. It helped me get out of The Way and understand some major issues, and although some of the theological points discussed are not ones I necessarily agreed with, the writer helped open my eyes to some things.
penworks, I find it ironic that VPW used to proudly point out Rhoda's qualifications because she went to Moody Bible Institute.
i think one reason sometimes it's hard to talk about what happened to you (me) is that you have no scripture to back it up -- that was a "funny"
i honestly thought that you, white dove, and you, oldies, would take the higher road and leave this one thread alone
that's why i reacted and said what i did do you, white dove
i just can't argue logic and/or scripture when it comes to the deepest hurts/betrayals experienced in life
and i do believe life is something we all experience -- and i have no scripture to back that up -- do i ?
well maybe that one about there is nothing new under the sun....
There are Scriptures to back it up. Jesus warned us about false prophets, and wolves in sheeps clothing. He also gave us the example of loving one another, taught us that we can tell the false teachers from the true by their fruits, and many other things. But we rarely read Jesus' words because they "weren't addressed to us" - we were taught that most of what he said was addressed to Israel. The greatest thing that Jesus spoke of was that there is a time coming when God is going to make things right, and everything wrong with the world will be fixed. This isn't just for Israel, it's for all of us, and it's good news!
Also God is a God of all comfort:
II Cor. 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
4 who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
5 For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.
i honestly thought that you, white dove, and you, oldies, would take the higher road and leave this one thread alone
What happened here was akin to having a memorial thread for a friend or relative, and having someone who didn't like that individual come in and trash that person in their postings.
It was good that the mods stepped in and deleted the chief offender's posts.
Some people have a misguided sense of what's appropriate.
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rascal
((((((excathedra)))))) never invisible, , however I feel that I way as well. Never underestimate the impact your own personal testimoney has had on others. For many of us it was the first inkling we
excathedra
thank you so much billy
waysider
One must wonder what this discussion would be like had the incident taken place under the auspices of, let's say, a bass fishing club. And, suppose the villainous person at the heart of it been some joker named Hector Szublefrickenhumptypup.
Would "The Bible" still play a key role in the discussion? And what about Mr. Zsublefrickenhumptypup?
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penworks
Back to the thread's topic regarding this second interview... Thanks again to Paw and Kristen. I can hardly imagine how challenging it must be to "go on the record" with your story, Kristen. And as difficult as it may be for some people to stomach listening to this sad story, I think it is important to listen. It speaks to many issues surrounding how something like this happens, denial being one of the most powerful ones.
As humans, when we invest our hearts in a cause we believe to be true, we want so badly for it to be true that we'll avoid considering any doubts about its value, often to our own disadvantage, or even our own destruction. Take any intro psychology class and you'll probably learn this or browse the aisle of the self-help section at Borders and you'll see dozens of books on this topic of denial, not to mention cult awareness books...
BTW: Other sources of info that happend to help me leave The Way in 1987:
The Way International and Victor Paul Wierwille published in 1979 by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, written by J.L. Williams, ISBN 0-8024-9233-9. It's a little paperback of 159 pages including cult info references, notes, bibliography etc. I first found it in a used bookstore in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1986. It helped me get out of The Way and understand some major issues, and although some of the theological points discussed are not ones I necessarily agreed with, the writer helped open my eyes to some things.
In 1987, a friend recommended reading From Ashes to Gold by Patti Roberts, which tells of her experiences at Oral Roberts University (there are some similarities with The Way Corps training, etc.). She describes her disillusionment with the cause and her eventual divorce from Oral Robert's son, Richard. Although I did not (nor do now) espouse many of her religious beliefs, her understanding of the power that Oral Roberts had over her life and how the groupthink of the organization controlled her were things I could relate to first-hand. To her credit, she began questioning and stood up for herself, got out and started a new life.
Needless to say, I'm surely thankful you did, too, Kristen.
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Shellon
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GrouchoMarxJr
Of course I am...I have been where you are now...and I understand. I understand that twi taught people to "close the trap door"...which in reality meant..."Let us tell you how to think and what to believe. Eliminate all other avenues for truth for they are a danger to you"
...sounds like a recipe for brainwashing to me...especially when one considers that the source of this information came from a man of despicable behavior. Doesn't the bible lay out the requirements for the behavior of a legitimate minister?...have you ever considered that you have been led astray by a wolf in sheeps clothing?...Oh, that's right...you are intolerant of thoughts contrary to what you been been programmed to believe...
...But yes, back to the topic.
Thank you Kristen for having the courage to tell what happened...to those of us who have ears to hear.
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waysider
Yes-------- the ability to admit to yourself that your "hero" was a second rate flim-flam man who used the scriptures deceitfully in order to satisfy his own lustful perversions. Even in his grave, he continues to "use" you to further his perversion of the so called "Truth".
Am I missing something?
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RumRunner
Read again WD for you certainly do NOT have this clear for the record. I said PM's abound not that I was PMing. In point of fact I have neither sent nor replied to any PM's about you. Hence the first part of your premise is wrongly accusative. Secondly, since I didn't send any, then I cannot be wearing that as a "badge of achievement." Thirdly you further an incorrect assumption with the words "It's pretty telling that you talk about someone behind their back." Fourthly, since you don't know me, you have no idea about my grasp of truth. Fifthly, I have stepped up to the mic - my posts have been forthright and public whether you agree with them or not. Finally if you are referring to my claims about the sexually predatory nature that was Victor Wierwille - those claims are substantiated by many people who were the first hand recipients of his sexual abuse as well as others who were witness of that nature and yet not participants whether willingly or unwillingly. I will give you only one point of agreement - and that is that I too would hold in low esteem anyone who resorted to speaking behind other's back.
Now - back to our regularly scheduled program - Thanks again Kris for your outpouring of honest. I'm sure that that interview was not pleasant.
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Mark Clarke
Oldiesman and White Dove have both made the point that the character of the person speaking truth from the Bible does not negate that truth. This is true. As they have said, "truth is truth no matter who speaks it." The point of discussion is not whether or not the Word that VPW preached (or wrote) was true (although much of what he said was doctrinally wrong, but that has been handled in other threads). The point of discussion in this thread is the character of the so-called "Man of God" and specifically how it relates to the experiences of Kris Skedgell.
Now I don't share Geo's skepticism about the integrity of the Bible, so I wouldn't say that you (or we) only believe the Bible because someone told you to. But here's another point to consider. The entire Christian world believes in Jesus Christ based on the words of eyewitnesses (skeptics who doubt the veracity of the Gospels notwithstanding). We cannot "prove" that those events took place. We accept the words of the eyewitnesses because they have proven to be reliable, even going to their death rather than denying what they have seen.
For that matter, neither can we "prove" that any historical events took place. We can't even "prove" with 100% certainty that current events take place, but base our acceptance on the reliability of eyewitnesses. If you want to take it further, in philosophy and metaphysics you can't even "prove" absolutely that you exist. The point is that even in a court of law, "proof" only needs to be "beyond reasonable doubt." Kristen's testimony (at least the one incident that she read in the excerpt) cannot be "proven" since only two people were there and one of them is dead. But we're talking "reasonable doubt." Even if VP were alive and he denied that Kristen's testimony was true, we would then have to decide who was the more reliable witness. Her testimony jives with that of many other witnesses who have had similar experiences, while VP has in many cases been proven to be a liar. On what do you base your decision to have a "reasonable doubt" that the event was not as Kris described it? Remember, we are talking about the character of the man in question, not whether the Bible he taught was true.
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JeffSjo
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Oakspear
The whole context of what DWBH is saying that the one speaking is a hypocrite...the truths are negated as spoken by that man, not negated as "truth".
DWBH is smart enough to realize that any "truth" does not magically evaporate from an arrangement of words if a dirtbag utters them.
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Ham
I dunno.. if that's what it took for me to separate myself from a lying, plagiarizing, thieving, adulterous, incestuous sob.. I'd say it- "I do not believe"..
"sorry jacko.. sell your ineffective nonsense somewhere else.."
even a "dumb" animal can chew it's leg off to get out of the trap..
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doojable
So when Satan quoted scripture to Jesus he was speaking truth? Hmmmm... you might want to re-think that.
He spoke the words. The scripture was quoted, but so out of context that there was no truth in them. Words of truth were used to deceive. Seems that intent and character do come into play and do need to be considered.
As I recall it's referred to as "Jesus being tempted."
The point is that tricky vic knew just enough scripture to deceive and tempt.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Good point dooj...It's only fitting that a biblical illustration of this point be presented to the bible thumpers...What is truth?..."thy word is truth"...was satan speaking the "word" when Jesus was tempted?...sure he was. So the question is...was Wierwille EVER sincere when he taught the scriptures?...my answer is WHO CARES!
He lost the right for me to even care what he said...Who knows, maybe Jeffery Dahmer was speaking bible verses also when they bashed his head into the porcelin crapper until he was dead...guess what? I don't care what Dahmer said either.
How about Jim Jones...or David Koresh?...I'm sure they read the bible verses to their followers...Personally, I think that MOST of what Wierwille taught was wrong and I'm a Christian...but WHY would anyone still be interested in anything that man had to say?...he was extremely narcisstic, had total disregard for others, was a sexual pervert, lied in God's name, and hurt a lot of people...and you still think that his "teachings" have any value?
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pawtucket
I removed posts by White Dove and oldiesman. They took an important subject and did a bait and switch which they are both good at doing. It violated the forum rules and mission of GS. Their utter disrespect for a victim is sickening.
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Shellon
Thank you Paw
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Mark Clarke
The only "good thing" their posts did was remind me of the twisted, heartless mentality that was so prevalent in TWI, and make me thankful to be out.
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Tex
Thank you, everyone, for listening with such intensity to the podcast. The discussions are eye-opening and harrowing. Thank you for your compassion. I'm so sorry to think that anyone else was "V-Porized" like I was. As for the book, I think this is the low point, well, it gets worse but THEN it gets better! So fear not. We all got through it and survived. That's the important thing. Now onto thriving. If anyone wants to write me privately, my e-mail address is kskedgell@gmail.com. be well, all of you. love, kristen
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Sunesis
Kris, thank you again for sharing - ignore the two goobers who always show up. Paw thanks for deleting them.
Excie my friend, you have absolutely nothing, ever, to be ashamed of. You go girl!!!
I found it amazing Kris, that his answer to your pain and misery was that you were possessed. Don't talk that way or we won't be able to have good times (sex). I really think he just wanted you to shut up and wanted to continue the good times (according to him). I even think, he wouldn't have cared if you had taken your life, he just would have missed the good times, told everyone you were possessed, and then found someone else. He had absolutely no clue as to how to respond. His only response was sex - please him. What a psychopath, I believe he was beyond narcissism.
The bit about the rings is interesting. I have a feeling he gave them to his special ladies who felt honored wearing them. It was almost like he got a kick out of seeing them - like they were his secret wives, or secret harem. Sick.
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waysider
I'm not sure what to make of the rings thing. To me, at least, it seems to suggest a serial nature to his deeds. We've probably all seen these TV shows where the serial killer keeps an ear or a finger or lock of hair from each victim. I think it was probably along those same lines. Scary, though, that he had a whole bunch of them yet to be given away. You have to wonder if he eventually gave them away and to whom.
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sky watcher
I shared a while back about a night that I spent with vp where for some reason I escaped the honor of being molested by the "mog". That night he gave me a broach that he had brought back from the holy land. It was a mother of pearl star of David surrounded by filagree. I thought at the time that he probably gave them out to people to "bless them". It sounds like it could be part of his modus operandi YUCK!
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hampshire73
I want to echo thanks to Kristen and Pawtucket for speaking about this. It takes bravery to deal with experiences like this, and even more to go public.
penworks, I find it ironic that VPW used to proudly point out Rhoda's qualifications because she went to Moody Bible Institute.
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excathedra
i think one reason sometimes it's hard to talk about what happened to you (me) is that you have no scripture to back it up -- that was a "funny"
i honestly thought that you, white dove, and you, oldies, would take the higher road and leave this one thread alone
that's why i reacted and said what i did do you, white dove
i just can't argue logic and/or scripture when it comes to the deepest hurts/betrayals experienced in life
and i do believe life is something we all experience -- and i have no scripture to back that up -- do i ?
well maybe that one about there is nothing new under the sun....
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excathedra
"I was so young, you should have known"
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Mark Clarke
There are Scriptures to back it up. Jesus warned us about false prophets, and wolves in sheeps clothing. He also gave us the example of loving one another, taught us that we can tell the false teachers from the true by their fruits, and many other things. But we rarely read Jesus' words because they "weren't addressed to us" - we were taught that most of what he said was addressed to Israel. The greatest thing that Jesus spoke of was that there is a time coming when God is going to make things right, and everything wrong with the world will be fixed. This isn't just for Israel, it's for all of us, and it's good news!
Also God is a God of all comfort:
II Cor. 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
4 who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
5 For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.
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now I see
What happened here was akin to having a memorial thread for a friend or relative, and having someone who didn't like that individual come in and trash that person in their postings.
It was good that the mods stepped in and deleted the chief offender's posts.
Some people have a misguided sense of what's appropriate.
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