No, it really doesn't matter how he became that way, he was a bad, bad man, a disgustingly vile, dead, low life. Guys like him who end up in prison get killed by the other prisoners for raping minors.
No matter how he got there, he made a choice in his life to become an abuser like the ones who abused him, rather than becoming a healer, it was his choice, he failed miserably.
The con of being a minister was so good, so perfected, it does a mind funk on you to try to reconcile the portrayed image vs. what he actually was. He was so good at fooling us, it makes you wonder how it ever happened......
I guess for me, understanding how he became that way would help me to deal with that "mind funk" because it puts at least a little bit of sense to what is otherwise totally senseless. Also, for me to let go of the crap that he did and move on, I need to forgive as Jesus commanded me to, remembering that God will do the judging ultimately. Not condone what he did, mind you, but forgive to the end that I can let go of it and not let it control me any more. I find that easier to do if I have some idea how he became such a vile monster. But maybe that's just me. I do tend to analyze things too much. I'm trying to analyze why I do that!
He left his church in Van Wert because he, in fact, did get his secretary pregnant while he was the pastor there while being married with children. I believe he must have been forced out because of it. I never heard him say anything good about those church leaders, and in fact, he stated that religion is one of the cruelest institutions in the world; misdirected anger.
My recollection of public things he said about Dorthia were positive, although I never understood why certain people would say women wanted to be like her and should aspire to be like her or use her as a model. She was very quiet and reserved, didn't display very much emotion, which I attributed to her rural Ohio upbringing and culture, rarely said anything publically and it was evident that she had given up a lot to support her husband. I'm sure those living at Hq's had more interaction w/her and saw more, I only lived there for a short time post vp.
I recollect that he spoke of giving away JP, I think to a relative when he was 6 months old, depite Dorthia's and Don's objections, when they all went to India, other than that I can't think of him ever effusing or emoting over his kids.
Someone here posted a while back they thought it was vp's mom who was the source of his sociopathic behavior, although the details are limited and sketchy. He must have been abused or regularly exposed to an abuser as a young person to be that bold and so good at hiding it.
It took long time before any of us on a large-scale knew about vp's predilections, he had fortified himself at twi with so many of his henchmen and handlers, those who covered for him and who also indulged with him. Perhaps the only ones who really know of his family's legacy and origins for abuse are his surviving relatives.
It has been strongly suggested that Vic's father Ernst was an alcoholic, physically beat VP's mother Emma and children, and raped Lydia and Sevilla(Vic's sisters). So VPW couldn't go beyond what he was taught, ironic?
MC, also Vic took a sabbatical without either his congragation's nor his denomination's permission. It has also been suggested(but no proof) that Mister Wierwille physically theatened his first congregation(remember what his consistory reprimaned him on tithing and roared verbal threats to them about they were not ordained and to shut the he!! up or out on the streets with major injuries). If you kowtow to his whims, then you were his buddy for life, but rebuke him, and you are dead meat. VPW even threatened his superiors(I think the truth is he was defrocked and striped of ordination/fired and possibly was reprimanded to sign a letter of resignation or go to civil/criminal secular superior court on charges of intimidation and threats of murder). He even considered running as a dark horse for the 1st presidency of the UCC but reconsidered against it. This has been 2nd and 3rd level rumors about his "resignation" from the E&R Church. Possible and pluasible but no confirmed facts to support it.
...And how long will the Wierwille apologists continue to live in denial?...
...and not just the handful that hang out here...but the many who belong to splinter groups, independant "twigs", and the many who belong to the waycorps website...this man was a monster and shame on all who continue to glorify him and sing his praises...
shame on them all...
Speaking of denial........ despite the obvious, you still assume that the group that you have apparently taken upon yourself to pigeonhole with a name is in denial. I wonder just what qualifies you to speak for others?
Speaking of denial........ despite the obvious, you still assume that the group that you have apparently taken upon yourself to pigeonhole with a name is in denial. I wonder just what qualifies you to speak for others?
What qualifies me to speak for others?...I don't speak for others...
I merely express my own observations...Because of my experience in twi, I can see "waybrain" a mile away...
For those of you who are determined to follow the path that was laid out for you by a child molesting drunkard...I pity your souls and question the sanity of your minds.
Whitedove...while you are in the mood to "wonder"...why not wonder why you have chosen to be a Wierwille apologist?
Although I no longer study the bible daily, I still recall something about "you will know them by their fruits"...and the "fruits" that I smell are enough to gag a maggot...
I'll bet you still read the "blue book", don't you?...
Child molesting drunkard? Groucho - I think a phrase more like heinous and vicious sexual predator and criminal would be appropriate - and even perhaps a little light considering the crimes that vicious thug committed in the name of God. The people who continue to support that man, in one way or another, remind me of WWII era Germans who, while never openly supporting Naziism or Hitler, routinely said - and accurately - "He put bread on the table!!!" Well - yeah - he DID put bread on the table - then had people like Mengela who operated on un-anesthetized prisoners for amusement - who oversaw a reich that killed 10's of millions with ruthless and almost religious fervor.
Oh yes - that drunken criminal sexual deviant taught the bible - then went on to rape, coerce, lie, cover, steal and destroy as many lives as he had to in order to keep his depraved sex machine running.
And this from a former ordained clergy-person - who despises the depravity that the innocent were subjected to.
For those of you who are determined to follow the path that was laid out for you by a child molesting drunkard...I pity your souls and question the sanity of your minds.
Although I no longer study the bible daily, I still recall something about "you will know them by their fruits"...and the "fruits" that I smell are enough to gag a maggot...
For those who still follow the teachings of Victor Paul the molester Wierwille, I say they are in denial...denial of reality...denial that they were deceived by a monster...they still live the twi "lifestyle"...
...IF the shoe fits...wear it.
I wouldn't put it below him if he feasted on the fresh blood of newborn babies.
Have there been any ponds drained in New Knoxville lately?
What amazes me is that after all that has been said/written/shared/discussed ... you STILL read the Blue Book??????????????
It would be like me reading some literature written by one of those Fathers in the Colorado City incident and thinking ..wow... he's cool.. he had some real truth to what he was saying... what a disrespect to those women and children under their control.
Child molesting drunkard? Groucho - I think a phrase more like heinous and vicious sexual predator and criminal would be appropriate - and even perhaps a little light considering the crimes that vicious thug committed in the name of God.
I think you have a point there...it is a little light considering his crimes...
...Perhaps a more "detailed" description of him might go something like...
...fake, narcisstic, child molesting, money grabbing, lying, stealing, son of satan...maybe we could dig him up and sell his glass eye on Ebay...
...and as far as all of you mindless wonders who still kiss the hem of Vic's doctrines...may the drool continue to run down your chins.
I rarely follow authors home and take notes on their lives when reading a book. Truth stands on it's own.
EXACTLY... you don't have to follow anyone home... others did it for you... in the motorcoach... it's all written here or spoken about here... check out a few podcasts...they are informative. I think in a few instances something is mentioned about 'having a staggering capacity for denial' while in TWI (or just being waybrained for that matter) ... hmmmm..... do i see a connection?
Isn't it entirely possible that a person with severe character flaws will choose to believe and teach a doctrine that furthers their personal agenda?
Scripture may not be based on character flaws - but a doctrine that abuses the interpretation of the scripture and hurts innocents in the name of God is not truth - it is a flawed doctrine.
Who's to say that what the victoid taught was truth? He put forth an interpretation of scripture that he got from other men. That set of lessons served his purpose. He could have found other doctrines that weren't as controversial - and put them forth as truth.
Just because you believe his doctrine to be truth doesn't make it so.
God forbid that the VPEEPEEster would have taught anything that could have been even remotely for his own purposes.... we all know he helped people in their personal lives and it was never to meet any of his OWN needs ... right?
How can anyone separate tricky vic's doctrine from his d1ck?
It had nothing to do with gawd. Not a dammed thing to do with truth. It only had to do with feeding the victoid's lusts and appetites. It was about making him look more important and more than some guy born in a cornfield. In the end he was still just the cornfield preacher - only he was worst because he dragged the lives of many through that dammed cow manure.
whitedove...........you said: "Really? why would that be? I call em as I see em. Surely you are not wanting to suppress someone's opinion and have a one sided view."
the topic of this thread is kristen skedgell's interview titled "Losing The Way Part 2"..........what is your opinion of what ms. skedgell has to say regarding twi? do you agree twi was and is a destructive religious cult?.........what is your "view" of the section of her book which she reads at the end of the interview?..........was "the doctor" a faithful "minister" for the same god you love and worship?..........was "dr." wierwille a a genuine "man of god" who spoke the truth of your god, the father of jesus christ?...........was he speaking "god's word" to kristen when she turned to him as her "minister", desperately seeking god's wisdom and deliverance for her tortured soul?
was "dr." wierwille speaking "god's truth" to her when he told her "that's a devil spirit in you"? was that genuine "revelation" by "word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits"??..............was "the doctor" speaking "scriptural truth" to kristen when he told her to take her clothes off so he could show her why her life was worth living??..............whose "side" was vic on when he spoke and ministered to her that day?.............god's?.............was he acting on "scriptural truth" and "doing the will of god" during his "ministering" to kristen that day?..............please "don't suppress your opinion"............i really would like to know which side of the view you see regarding these questions..............thanks for "call(ing) 'em as you see 'em" for us here.......................peace.
The doctrine was NEVER only "complete in Him" and you know it.
The Blue Book has a bunch of error in it that doesn't work, doesn't fit and doesn't follow scripture. Why hold it up as truth?
Being smug doesn't serve your purposes. I read what you wrote:
Scripture is either true or not based on the Bible not human flaws, if true then it is always so no matter the speaker. Now ones belief of the speaker based on their actions may vary, but what they speak is not character based.
To which I answered:
Isn't it entirely possible that a person with severe character flaws will choose to believe and teach a doctrine that furthers their personal agenda?
Scripture may not be based on character flaws - but a doctrine that abuses the interpretation of the scripture and hurts innocents in the name of God is not truth - it is a flawed doctrine.
My point - since it may have been too subtle for you, hence you may have missed it, is that while scripture isn't based on human flaws, HOW the victoid picked his poison... errrr ummm doctrine, was most likely based on his deep-seated character flaws.
Now - HOW are you judging the whole of his doctrine as being truth? Anyone can string some verses together and make a doctrine. That's not truth. That's manipulation.
The Blue Book since it is your favorite subject says We are complete in him That's a VP Wierwille teaching , by the way the Bible concurs
Colossians 2: 9,10
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
I see no deception it is what the scriptures say, that is truth. Actually those in denial are those that allow their personal dislike to negate what the truth of scripture says. You deny the truth of scripture because of a personal dislike.
So ... let me get this right...
Dove,
So what you're saying is this: Kristen Skedgell and all the other abused, used and destroyed individuals and family members, loved ones and also vp's own children should read his book(s)... because regardless of their personal dislikes for the man... they should not deny or negate the supposed truth he spoke using the scriptures.
OMG...what sick God would ask anyone to do that?
that is heartless, cruel, and reeks of ungodliness... i thought god looked upon the heart? And if they're damaged, how could a God of love ever ask anyone to do such a thing????
First you seem to think I swallow every thing written on the internet as truth ........I don't! Now that that is clear ,her opinion and that is what it is without factual evidence is hers to share she is free to do so. I'm free not to accept it on her word. or to accept parts or all. Actually I don't see much at all scriptural truth to examine for truth in her account. Due to the lack of scripture to examine for truth ,I can concur that there is little truth in the story. But had there been some if it indeed lined up with what scripture says then it would then in fact be truth, regardless of what actions VP may have taken. The Bible does not depend on man's moral rightousness for defining if it is truth or not. But I suppose you should know that, at least once you did...... So thats how I see em I have no comment on undocumentable stories I think I have made that pretty clear before. I can however discuss sections of the blue book as someone brought up because it contains scripture and it can be examined to be found true or not. By the way for the record I see both cases, but the ones that concur with scripture are still none the less truth, even if VP was nailing spikes in Jesus's hands as he was saying them. Actions do not negate the scripture. Judas spoke truth at times he also betrayed Jesus two different things. one does not negate the other.
You've done well Dove.
You're EXACTLY what VP raised you to be... you think JUST like him and his cronies!
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rascal
((((((excathedra)))))) never invisible, , however I feel that I way as well. Never underestimate the impact your own personal testimoney has had on others. For many of us it was the first inkling we
excathedra
thank you so much billy
now I see
I believe it was initially reported on Waydale, but you can also look it up at this website's search engine.
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excathedra
Sushi, I'm listening to it again and really loving it
--
By the way, I just want to make a general comment, to no one....
I don't care about his young life or his history
Knowing him was enough for me
Love,ex
Hope you know what I mean
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now I see
No, it really doesn't matter how he became that way, he was a bad, bad man, a disgustingly vile, dead, low life. Guys like him who end up in prison get killed by the other prisoners for raping minors.
No matter how he got there, he made a choice in his life to become an abuser like the ones who abused him, rather than becoming a healer, it was his choice, he failed miserably.
The con of being a minister was so good, so perfected, it does a mind funk on you to try to reconcile the portrayed image vs. what he actually was. He was so good at fooling us, it makes you wonder how it ever happened......
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Mark Clarke
I guess for me, understanding how he became that way would help me to deal with that "mind funk" because it puts at least a little bit of sense to what is otherwise totally senseless. Also, for me to let go of the crap that he did and move on, I need to forgive as Jesus commanded me to, remembering that God will do the judging ultimately. Not condone what he did, mind you, but forgive to the end that I can let go of it and not let it control me any more. I find that easier to do if I have some idea how he became such a vile monster. But maybe that's just me. I do tend to analyze things too much. I'm trying to analyze why I do that!
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
MC, also Vic took a sabbatical without either his congragation's nor his denomination's permission. It has also been suggested(but no proof) that Mister Wierwille physically theatened his first congregation(remember what his consistory reprimaned him on tithing and roared verbal threats to them about they were not ordained and to shut the he!! up or out on the streets with major injuries). If you kowtow to his whims, then you were his buddy for life, but rebuke him, and you are dead meat. VPW even threatened his superiors(I think the truth is he was defrocked and striped of ordination/fired and possibly was reprimanded to sign a letter of resignation or go to civil/criminal secular superior court on charges of intimidation and threats of murder). He even considered running as a dark horse for the 1st presidency of the UCC but reconsidered against it. This has been 2nd and 3rd level rumors about his "resignation" from the E&R Church. Possible and pluasible but no confirmed facts to support it.
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WhiteDove
Speaking of denial........ despite the obvious, you still assume that the group that you have apparently taken upon yourself to pigeonhole with a name is in denial. I wonder just what qualifies you to speak for others?
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JeffSjo
I haven't been able to listen to this yet.
But your responses sadden me so much.
This was apparently one sick, twisted human being who damaged many. Sometimes I wonder how many people are still faithfully following orders even.
Oh God, this is almost too much.
Take care friends.
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GrouchoMarxJr
What qualifies me to speak for others?...I don't speak for others...
I merely express my own observations...Because of my experience in twi, I can see "waybrain" a mile away...
For those of you who are determined to follow the path that was laid out for you by a child molesting drunkard...I pity your souls and question the sanity of your minds.
Whitedove...while you are in the mood to "wonder"...why not wonder why you have chosen to be a Wierwille apologist?
Although I no longer study the bible daily, I still recall something about "you will know them by their fruits"...and the "fruits" that I smell are enough to gag a maggot...
I'll bet you still read the "blue book", don't you?...
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RumRunner
Child molesting drunkard? Groucho - I think a phrase more like heinous and vicious sexual predator and criminal would be appropriate - and even perhaps a little light considering the crimes that vicious thug committed in the name of God. The people who continue to support that man, in one way or another, remind me of WWII era Germans who, while never openly supporting Naziism or Hitler, routinely said - and accurately - "He put bread on the table!!!" Well - yeah - he DID put bread on the table - then had people like Mengela who operated on un-anesthetized prisoners for amusement - who oversaw a reich that killed 10's of millions with ruthless and almost religious fervor.
Oh yes - that drunken criminal sexual deviant taught the bible - then went on to rape, coerce, lie, cover, steal and destroy as many lives as he had to in order to keep his depraved sex machine running.
And this from a former ordained clergy-person - who despises the depravity that the innocent were subjected to.
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TheInvisibleDan
I wouldn't put it below him if he feasted on the fresh blood of newborn babies.
Have there been any ponds drained in New Knoxville lately?
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RumRunner
http://www.cbs.com/classics/the_twilight_z...555532&cc=1
The Rod Serling opening speaks well to the brainwashing of TWI.
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excathedra
whitedove, i don't think you should add your 2 cents here, i mean it
unless of course you have no sense or respect
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GrouchoMarxJr
For those who still follow the teachings of Victor Paul the molester Wierwille, I say they are in denial...denial of reality...denial that they were deceived by a monster...they still live the twi "lifestyle"...
...IF the shoe fits...wear it.
Maybe it's about time they started...
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A la prochaine
Dove,
What amazes me is that after all that has been said/written/shared/discussed ... you STILL read the Blue Book??????????????
It would be like me reading some literature written by one of those Fathers in the Colorado City incident and thinking ..wow... he's cool.. he had some real truth to what he was saying... what a disrespect to those women and children under their control.
absolutely discusting.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I think you have a point there...it is a little light considering his crimes...
...Perhaps a more "detailed" description of him might go something like...
...fake, narcisstic, child molesting, money grabbing, lying, stealing, son of satan...maybe we could dig him up and sell his glass eye on Ebay...
...and as far as all of you mindless wonders who still kiss the hem of Vic's doctrines...may the drool continue to run down your chins.
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A la prochaine
EXACTLY... you don't have to follow anyone home... others did it for you... in the motorcoach... it's all written here or spoken about here... check out a few podcasts...they are informative. I think in a few instances something is mentioned about 'having a staggering capacity for denial' while in TWI (or just being waybrained for that matter) ... hmmmm..... do i see a connection?
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A la prochaine
This is hopeless :wacko: <_<
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doojable
Isn't it entirely possible that a person with severe character flaws will choose to believe and teach a doctrine that furthers their personal agenda?
Scripture may not be based on character flaws - but a doctrine that abuses the interpretation of the scripture and hurts innocents in the name of God is not truth - it is a flawed doctrine.
Who's to say that what the victoid taught was truth? He put forth an interpretation of scripture that he got from other men. That set of lessons served his purpose. He could have found other doctrines that weren't as controversial - and put them forth as truth.
Just because you believe his doctrine to be truth doesn't make it so.
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A la prochaine
Doojable...
God forbid that the VPEEPEEster would have taught anything that could have been even remotely for his own purposes.... we all know he helped people in their personal lives and it was never to meet any of his OWN needs ... right?
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doojable
How can anyone separate tricky vic's doctrine from his d1ck?
It had nothing to do with gawd. Not a dammed thing to do with truth. It only had to do with feeding the victoid's lusts and appetites. It was about making him look more important and more than some guy born in a cornfield. In the end he was still just the cornfield preacher - only he was worst because he dragged the lives of many through that dammed cow manure.
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DontWorryBeHappy
whitedove...........you said: "Really? why would that be? I call em as I see em. Surely you are not wanting to suppress someone's opinion and have a one sided view."
the topic of this thread is kristen skedgell's interview titled "Losing The Way Part 2"..........what is your opinion of what ms. skedgell has to say regarding twi? do you agree twi was and is a destructive religious cult?.........what is your "view" of the section of her book which she reads at the end of the interview?..........was "the doctor" a faithful "minister" for the same god you love and worship?..........was "dr." wierwille a a genuine "man of god" who spoke the truth of your god, the father of jesus christ?...........was he speaking "god's word" to kristen when she turned to him as her "minister", desperately seeking god's wisdom and deliverance for her tortured soul?
was "dr." wierwille speaking "god's truth" to her when he told her "that's a devil spirit in you"? was that genuine "revelation" by "word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits"??..............was "the doctor" speaking "scriptural truth" to kristen when he told her to take her clothes off so he could show her why her life was worth living??..............whose "side" was vic on when he spoke and ministered to her that day?.............god's?.............was he acting on "scriptural truth" and "doing the will of god" during his "ministering" to kristen that day?..............please "don't suppress your opinion"............i really would like to know which side of the view you see regarding these questions..............thanks for "call(ing) 'em as you see 'em" for us here.......................peace.
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doojable
WD - you're using circular logic again.
The doctrine was NEVER only "complete in Him" and you know it.
The Blue Book has a bunch of error in it that doesn't work, doesn't fit and doesn't follow scripture. Why hold it up as truth?
Being smug doesn't serve your purposes. I read what you wrote:
To which I answered:
My point - since it may have been too subtle for you, hence you may have missed it, is that while scripture isn't based on human flaws, HOW the victoid picked his poison... errrr ummm doctrine, was most likely based on his deep-seated character flaws.
Now - HOW are you judging the whole of his doctrine as being truth? Anyone can string some verses together and make a doctrine. That's not truth. That's manipulation.
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A la prochaine
Dove,
So what you're saying is this: Kristen Skedgell and all the other abused, used and destroyed individuals and family members, loved ones and also vp's own children should read his book(s)... because regardless of their personal dislikes for the man... they should not deny or negate the supposed truth he spoke using the scriptures.
OMG...what sick God would ask anyone to do that?
that is heartless, cruel, and reeks of ungodliness... i thought god looked upon the heart? And if they're damaged, how could a God of love ever ask anyone to do such a thing????
You've done well Dove.
You're EXACTLY what VP raised you to be... you think JUST like him and his cronies!
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