To the original question No I haven't been in a fellowship where someone recognized the language spoken.
However do, with out a doubt believe that SIT is real and that I do it. I also believed it can be faked, by someone with the skill to do it, like some of the people on Who's Line, or by possession. I also believe that any believer can do it, if they want. And who's to say that some of these people who fake languages so well, like Sid Ceaser, didn't at some point become born again because of their relationship with Gentile kids and their teachings when they were young, but stuck with the families beliefs as they grew up. I think you know which you are doing.
I would have to agree that most people used catch phrases to get themselves started in interpretations, or made them up all together. I have noticed that in most cases those using tongues, interpretation and prophecy as we learned to use them have a very dull sameness them. Imagine my surprise however one day, when I began to exert an effort to not use these catch phrases in starting my interpretation I hear myself say. “When are you to go stop lying to yourselves and believe my word?” That was an eye opener.
Way back in the early 1970's, when I was very new to TWI, I brought a person to a meeting in Cleveland. This young man was a christian but very suspicious of TWI and VERY skeptical, even hostile, about speaking in tongues. This young man had been told that it was possible to curse god when speaking in tongues (I know -- we all have heard that one.) However, when someone spoke in tongues and interpreted, the young man I brought looked astonished. He told me that the person speaking in tongues had spoken "northern baltic Russian" and that the interpretation was essentially the gist of what had been said. The young man I brought did come from an "ethnic" family. Given the circumstances, I had no reason to think that he had made this up.
Over the years I have thought about this on occasion -- and wondered -- maybe there is a god. I don't know anymore.
This guy I knew, Serge ... for some reason just always "spoke in tongues" in his native tongue ... he was from ... ummm, Dominican, Jamaica? ...
anyway, he may have left a trail of folks that think they witnessed a miracle of someone "speaking in tongues" in a language they happened to understand.
I know that some people knowingly fake it, or have faked it. But I also think some people that believe they are doing it are not really speaking a language. I think people can pronounce syllables that sound to us like a language, and actually believe they are speaking in a tongue, because they have been taught to do so. But in fact are just repeating nonsense syllables. Scientific tests have been done, and they have never proven that it was a real language.
Having said that, however, I will add that I think there is a possibility that a few instances are genuine, if God deems it needful. There was more of need for such signs in the first century Church. But Paul makes it clear that not everyone speaks in tongues. The old "all nine all the time" notion is not Biblical. And because there are so many people who are not genuinely speaking in tongues (not just in TWI) the genuine instances are probably very few and far between. With so many counterfeits around, it is not a very effective sign anymore.
This seems to be very focussed on TWI's idea of SIT but don't forget that there are a lot of other people out there in churches (esp Pentecostal) who also SIT (or claim to). They believe they are speaking in an unknown language and do it privately because they also believe it has benefits ("quickest way to pray and get results", according to one woman in a car I was travelling in recently).
The interpretation of tongues is the TWI specialty. Other churches do it differently.
Agreed the KJV interpretations were a little weird and generally it was all very repetitive. However, I have heard some people give interpretation (one guy in particular) and the message is always so fresh and interesting in the choice of language that you want to listen.
Ah yes... just thank you, just...
Never heard this word used so many times as in some believers' prayers. Never speak like that in "real life."
Regarding the repetive twi prayer thank you for's, christians outside twi perceive that kind of address to God in prayer as being hauty, presumptive, arrogant even, thanking God for something he hasn't given you yet, sort of like trying to twist the hand of God to bend your way.
Regarding SIT, the admonision by vp that SIT builds up and energizes the inner man never did sit well with me, and it didn't work that way in practicle application. There always have been plenty of spiritual people walking with God before tongues, and after who didn't SIT. That teaching point was always a fuzzy area that never was explained or taught to my satisfaction, something that never fit quite right.
Regarding the repetive twi prayer thank you for's, christians outside twi perceive that kind of address to God in prayer as being hauty, presumptive, arrogant even, thanking God for something he hasn't given you yet, sort of like trying to twist the hand of God to bend your way.
Regarding SIT, the admonision by vp that SIT builds up and energizes the inner man never did sit well with me, and it didn't work that way in practicle application. There always have been plenty of spiritual people walking with God before tongues, and after who didn't SIT. That teaching point was always a fuzzy area that never was explained or taught to my satisfaction, something that never fit quite right.
Now I See,
I'd forgotten that that was the style of praying! ...uggh, but your right. If I'm praying now, it's in my own language; and it's not to tell Him what to do anymore. The SIT thing still bothers me, cuz it became such a dominating focus. Sometimes I think that I was sooooo fooled to have SIT so much -- meanwhile those needful prayers that never got uttered, cuz I was too busy 'o-shanta-ing'
In essence, when one speaks in tongues, the brain temporarily suspends the activity that is needed to maintain a sense of self control and objective, critical thinking. It facilitates the process of self delusion. Is it any wonder VPW was so adamant that we SIT much in our private prayers? The more you SIT, the less time you will spend in rational thought. Yep, keep speaking in tongues, kids. That way you wont think to peek behind the curtain and see the reality of the situation.
In addition, Wierwille also taught in the Advanced Class that SIT daily was an absolute necessity for receiving revelation.
(Page 10 of the AC syllabus for anyone interested.)
Was there anyone amongst us who did NOT want to receive revelation?
Yet, Wierwille cited(don't remember which class) an example of a man who supposedly was able to operate revelation merely by his intense ability to operate the so-called "law" of believing. No evidence was given that the man had EVER spoken in tongues. Of course, the incident itself may well have been one of VPW's little "stowries" that he invented to try to prove "believing" works.
I don't think Wierwille knew much about the scientific aspect of it but I do think that at some point he realized (perhaps on a subconscious level) he could exercise control over our critical thinking and our behavior as it related to serving his agenda by insisting we MUST speak in tongues much.
It does seem that SIT made us more submissive. Shoot, we don't even know what to pray for ... even that is out of our control. So instead of thinking or saving for retirement or paying for the kids to go to college ... we could go WOW and God would take care of us. We lived on a "higher plane" (of delusion)
In reality we knew many things we needed to do, but would allow that rationalization (that God would supply if we SITed and ABSed) to overcome our drive to achieve some needed things for ourselves. To not give 10-20% to God vpw was deemed as selfish and unspiritual ... but then vp was provided for but not the individual or the family.
There may be some value to "meditation" ... but I'm not sure how that relates to a perhaps comperable state of SIT. Gaining inner peace or calm may be different than expecting real world things to be handled by God in these states.
Speaking in tongues, or something roughly similar, is not even an exclusively Christian activity. Numerous "pagan" religions practice it as well, as did the ancient Greeks, and probably a whole bunch I don't know about.
Of course with those groups, it's always a "counterfeit", right?
Speaking in tongues, or something roughly similar, is not even an exclusively Christian activity. Numerous "pagan" religions practice it as well, as did the ancient Greeks, and probably a whole bunch I don't know about.
Of course with those groups, it's always a "counterfeit", right?
This is from Wiki.
Other religions
Aside from Christians, other religious groups also have been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[20]
Glossolalia was exhibited by the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called the Pythia) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her.[citation needed]
Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia.
In the nineteenth century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia (from Greek,xenos, stranger; and glossa, language. When one speaks in a language unknown to him). However, the importance attributed to it, as well as its frequency, has decreased significantly. Some present-day spiritists regard the phenomenon pointless, as it does not convey any intelligible message to those present.[who?]
Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[21] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[22][23][24]
It does seem that SIT made us more submissive. Shoot, we don't even know what to pray for ... even that is out of our control. So instead of thinking or saving for retirement or paying for the kids to go to college ... we could go WOW and God would take care of us. We lived on a "higher plane" (of delusion)
Uhh yeah - we didn't know what to pray but somehow we were able to "lift" people in tongues prayer - we could go out to that prayer shack and SIT all night for Uncle Scarry - and somehow our SIT would directly benefit him - even though we didn't know what we were "praying" for. Ummmm - any inconsistencies there to you?
In reality we knew many things we needed to do, but would allow that rationalization (that God would supply if we SITed and ABSed) to overcome our drive to achieve some needed things for ourselves. To not give 10-20% to God vpw was deemed as selfish and unspiritual ... but then vp was provided for but not the individual or the family.
Ah yes - ABS - often first cited with Joseph in Egypt with the seven years of feast followed by seven years of famine. SEEEEEEMS to me that all that went into the grain stores went BACK OUT TO THE PEOPLE during the famine... I never saw any money come back out - even when a 18 yr old WOW came down with acute colitis and needed surgery - naw no money for her - she just had bad believing...
There may be some value to "meditation" ... but I'm not sure how that relates to a perhaps comperable state of SIT. Gaining inner peace or calm may be different than expecting real world things to be handled by God in these states.
Thanks for those who contributed to the collection of second-hand incidents of people understanding tongues.
The biblical uses of the phrase "speaking in tongues" seems to presuppose that people knew what it was. Does this mean that SIT was known outside of Christianity, or just that the biblical writers assumed that their readers would be familiar with the Christian version of it?
George brought up uses of speaking in tongues in paganism. I know several pagans who speak in tongues, and those among them who claim that it's a real language that someone once recognized. Most that I am aware of utilize tongues as an "ecstatic utterance", not at all for its content, but more for the meditative aspects of it.
I just found this thread today and it's been interesting reading the posts. I know that some people faked speaking in tongues, but some didn't, including me. I also had two experiences with visitors understanding what I had said in tongues and when I asked, they both said that the interpretation was the same thing in English. One of these people was from Puerto Rico and the other was from Portugal. Each of them visited the twig I attended in college back in the 70s only once. Both of them thought that I knew the language I was speaking.
I have heard before that there were non-Christian religions that also believed in SIT. And, as far as fakers are concerned, I didn't feel it took any special revelation to spot some of them. I remember a guy who had been in the campus fellowship for a year or so when I started, and I couldn't help but notice that every time he "spoke in tongues" it was exactly the same thing, even though the interpetations were different. It got to the point where I could recite his "tongue" along with him. I always wondered why nobody ever said anything to him about it. (I wouldn't, because I was just a newbie and besides, I didn't want to hurt his feelings.)
I do remember those exceller's sessions, and I agree that some of the practices there were unnecessary and nonsensical. If you are getting the words directly from God, what sense does it make that you can pick a letter to start with?
Oakspear and everyone I'll offer a couple quotes from one of my hero's, Carl Sagan:
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." from his book Cosmos (1980)
"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time someting like that happened in politics or religion."
Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP Keynote Address
US astronomer & popularizer of astronomy (1934 - 1996)
I don't think you can lump it all together... I think that God works with individuals and not groups...I think some were real and some were not...
but...I'm a Christian...not everyone here is...I imagine that for them, it was all phoney.
If/when people DID genuinely speak in tongues...it was in SPITE of twi...and by the way, I think Wierwille's "tongues" was as fake as a three dollar bill..."Lo shanta kalimasita"...gime a break.
I always believed that mine were real, though primitive, if that is the right way to describe it. When I truly sought the LORD and repented of much, one day I was speaking in tongues and it began to change into a much more complicated language and it has since changed several more times. Perhaps as you grow in the LORD, he upgrades you, if you will. LOL.
As far as VPW's tongue, he was from the same generation that some, not all, don't wish to offend, AOG had actually produced a phonograph record and were "teaching" people to speak in tongues. Others that I heard must have learned it from repetition of others' tongues, because for a while it seemed that everyone that I heard from this particular denom were similar. Perhaps VPW had similar training.
When I was a little kid (maybe 8 years old) I went through a phase where I would sing songs in a made up language (or that's what I thought it was, anyway.) This was years before my family had ever gotten involved with twi... I remember hearing my parents talking about it with some of their friends, who had asked them if they thought I was spreaking in tongues (not twi people - just a couple of old hippies like my folks)... After that my mom told me not to do it anymore because people would think I could speak in another language when I couldn't.
When my family got involved in twi I always wondered if maybe that was speaking in tongues.
On a completely different note - I read a book a long time ago about Behavioral Science perspectives on speaking in tongues. I think its title was Glossolalia. Written (I think) in the 70s. Great book, if you can find it... It mentioned twi and some kids who had been deprogrammed but still spoke in tongues. Their parents had them put in a mental institution. I hope they are ok now.
So i had this great idea when i was about 14. I was going to record every tounges with interpratation at every fellowship, and analize it. We had been taught that some people had more than one tounge, and that many people spoke in the tounges of angels. I was going to study each one, and compare them to as many languages as I could find.
For the tounges of men, identifying who spoke which would be the ultimate witnessing tool.
As far as the tounges of angels went, well learning to speak a little of those just sounds cool.
Wouldn't you know it, pulling out the tape recorder at fellowship is the same thing as jumping off a cliff as expecting god to save you, according to but my parents and the local way corps. Foiled again?
Oh, and for what its worth, I belived I was speaking in tounges at the time, but I know better now. Just like I know now that I couldn't "disern the evil crawling on that f*g in my band class" or that I didn't "already heal your cold, the symptons will take care of themselves by tomorrow if you believe."
In essence, when one speaks in tongues, the brain temporarily suspends the activity that is needed to maintain a sense of self control and objective, critical thinking. It facilitates the process of self delusion. Is it any wonder VPW was so adamant that we SIT much in our private prayers? The more you SIT, the less time you will spend in rational thought. Yep, keep speaking in tongues, kids. That way you wont think to peek behind the curtain and see the reality of the situation.
In addition, Wierwille also taught in the Advanced Class that SIT daily was an absolute necessity for receiving revelation.
(Page 10 of the AC syllabus for anyone interested.)
Was there anyone amongst us who did NOT want to receive revelation?
Yet, Wierwille cited(don't remember which class) an example of a man who supposedly was able to operate revelation merely by his intense ability to operate the so-called "law" of believing. No evidence was given that the man had EVER spoken in tongues. Of course, the incident itself may well have been one of VPW's little "stowries" that he invented to try to prove "believing" works.
I don't think Wierwille knew much about the scientific aspect of it but I do think that at some point he realized (perhaps on a subconscious level) he could exercise control over our critical thinking and our behavior as it related to serving his agenda by insisting we MUST speak in tongues much.
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Keith
To the original question No I haven't been in a fellowship where someone recognized the language spoken.
However do, with out a doubt believe that SIT is real and that I do it. I also believed it can be faked, by someone with the skill to do it, like some of the people on Who's Line, or by possession. I also believe that any believer can do it, if they want. And who's to say that some of these people who fake languages so well, like Sid Ceaser, didn't at some point become born again because of their relationship with Gentile kids and their teachings when they were young, but stuck with the families beliefs as they grew up. I think you know which you are doing.
I would have to agree that most people used catch phrases to get themselves started in interpretations, or made them up all together. I have noticed that in most cases those using tongues, interpretation and prophecy as we learned to use them have a very dull sameness them. Imagine my surprise however one day, when I began to exert an effort to not use these catch phrases in starting my interpretation I hear myself say. “When are you to go stop lying to yourselves and believe my word?” That was an eye opener.
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vermontlaw
Way back in the early 1970's, when I was very new to TWI, I brought a person to a meeting in Cleveland. This young man was a christian but very suspicious of TWI and VERY skeptical, even hostile, about speaking in tongues. This young man had been told that it was possible to curse god when speaking in tongues (I know -- we all have heard that one.) However, when someone spoke in tongues and interpreted, the young man I brought looked astonished. He told me that the person speaking in tongues had spoken "northern baltic Russian" and that the interpretation was essentially the gist of what had been said. The young man I brought did come from an "ethnic" family. Given the circumstances, I had no reason to think that he had made this up.
Over the years I have thought about this on occasion -- and wondered -- maybe there is a god. I don't know anymore.
Vermontlaw
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rhino
This guy I knew, Serge ... for some reason just always "spoke in tongues" in his native tongue ... he was from ... ummm, Dominican, Jamaica? ...
anyway, he may have left a trail of folks that think they witnessed a miracle of someone "speaking in tongues" in a language they happened to understand.
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Mark Clarke
I know that some people knowingly fake it, or have faked it. But I also think some people that believe they are doing it are not really speaking a language. I think people can pronounce syllables that sound to us like a language, and actually believe they are speaking in a tongue, because they have been taught to do so. But in fact are just repeating nonsense syllables. Scientific tests have been done, and they have never proven that it was a real language.
Having said that, however, I will add that I think there is a possibility that a few instances are genuine, if God deems it needful. There was more of need for such signs in the first century Church. But Paul makes it clear that not everyone speaks in tongues. The old "all nine all the time" notion is not Biblical. And because there are so many people who are not genuinely speaking in tongues (not just in TWI) the genuine instances are probably very few and far between. With so many counterfeits around, it is not a very effective sign anymore.
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Twinky
This seems to be very focussed on TWI's idea of SIT but don't forget that there are a lot of other people out there in churches (esp Pentecostal) who also SIT (or claim to). They believe they are speaking in an unknown language and do it privately because they also believe it has benefits ("quickest way to pray and get results", according to one woman in a car I was travelling in recently).
The interpretation of tongues is the TWI specialty. Other churches do it differently.
Agreed the KJV interpretations were a little weird and generally it was all very repetitive. However, I have heard some people give interpretation (one guy in particular) and the message is always so fresh and interesting in the choice of language that you want to listen.
Ah yes... just thank you, just...
Never heard this word used so many times as in some believers' prayers. Never speak like that in "real life."
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Mark Clarke
How do they do it in other churches? I haven't been to a Pentecostal church.
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now I see
Regarding the repetive twi prayer thank you for's, christians outside twi perceive that kind of address to God in prayer as being hauty, presumptive, arrogant even, thanking God for something he hasn't given you yet, sort of like trying to twist the hand of God to bend your way.
Regarding SIT, the admonision by vp that SIT builds up and energizes the inner man never did sit well with me, and it didn't work that way in practicle application. There always have been plenty of spiritual people walking with God before tongues, and after who didn't SIT. That teaching point was always a fuzzy area that never was explained or taught to my satisfaction, something that never fit quite right.
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wing
Now I See,
I'd forgotten that that was the style of praying! ...uggh, but your right. If I'm praying now, it's in my own language; and it's not to tell Him what to do anymore. The SIT thing still bothers me, cuz it became such a dominating focus. Sometimes I think that I was sooooo fooled to have SIT so much -- meanwhile those needful prayers that never got uttered, cuz I was too busy 'o-shanta-ing'
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waysider
When one speaks in tongues, it actually triggers changes in brain wave activity.
This has been demonstrated scientifically in controlled laboratory settings.
Here is one sample reference, though there are many if one is inclined to search for them.
http://seedmagazine.com/news/2006/11/brain..._speaking_i.php
In essence, when one speaks in tongues, the brain temporarily suspends the activity that is needed to maintain a sense of self control and objective, critical thinking. It facilitates the process of self delusion. Is it any wonder VPW was so adamant that we SIT much in our private prayers? The more you SIT, the less time you will spend in rational thought. Yep, keep speaking in tongues, kids. That way you wont think to peek behind the curtain and see the reality of the situation.
In addition, Wierwille also taught in the Advanced Class that SIT daily was an absolute necessity for receiving revelation.
(Page 10 of the AC syllabus for anyone interested.)
Was there anyone amongst us who did NOT want to receive revelation?
Yet, Wierwille cited(don't remember which class) an example of a man who supposedly was able to operate revelation merely by his intense ability to operate the so-called "law" of believing. No evidence was given that the man had EVER spoken in tongues. Of course, the incident itself may well have been one of VPW's little "stowries" that he invented to try to prove "believing" works.
I don't think Wierwille knew much about the scientific aspect of it but I do think that at some point he realized (perhaps on a subconscious level) he could exercise control over our critical thinking and our behavior as it related to serving his agenda by insisting we MUST speak in tongues much.
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rhino
Very interesting waysider ....
It does seem that SIT made us more submissive. Shoot, we don't even know what to pray for ... even that is out of our control. So instead of thinking or saving for retirement or paying for the kids to go to college ... we could go WOW and God would take care of us. We lived on a "higher plane" (of delusion)
In reality we knew many things we needed to do, but would allow that rationalization (that God would supply if we SITed and ABSed) to overcome our drive to achieve some needed things for ourselves. To not give 10-20% to God vpw was deemed as selfish and unspiritual ... but then vp was provided for but not the individual or the family.
There may be some value to "meditation" ... but I'm not sure how that relates to a perhaps comperable state of SIT. Gaining inner peace or calm may be different than expecting real world things to be handled by God in these states.
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George Aar
And also,
Speaking in tongues, or something roughly similar, is not even an exclusively Christian activity. Numerous "pagan" religions practice it as well, as did the ancient Greeks, and probably a whole bunch I don't know about.
Of course with those groups, it's always a "counterfeit", right?
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waysider
This is from Wiki.
Other religions
Aside from Christians, other religious groups also have been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[20]
Glossolalia was exhibited by the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called the Pythia) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her.[citation needed]
Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia.
In the nineteenth century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia (from Greek,xenos, stranger; and glossa, language. When one speaks in a language unknown to him). However, the importance attributed to it, as well as its frequency, has decreased significantly. Some present-day spiritists regard the phenomenon pointless, as it does not convey any intelligible message to those present.[who?]
Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[21] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[22][23][24]
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RumRunner
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excathedra
i'm damn sure what i have to pray for now
and i could tell you in english
--
ps. something i would really enjoy is if someone would type their tongue out
and we could see if we could get a translation going
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RumRunner
Ayep Excie - I can talk to God in English - and I figure he can understand me - and yeah I know what I need to pray for too.
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excathedra
i know (((((( rummie ))))))) he might hebrew or whatev. but since he's god, he gets the english....
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wing
:) "ps. something i would really enjoy is if someone would type their tongue out and we could see if we could get a translation going......"
sounds like it could be some fun. and you just gave me a really good chuckle.
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Oakspear
Thanks for those who contributed to the collection of second-hand incidents of people understanding tongues.
The biblical uses of the phrase "speaking in tongues" seems to presuppose that people knew what it was. Does this mean that SIT was known outside of Christianity, or just that the biblical writers assumed that their readers would be familiar with the Christian version of it?
George brought up uses of speaking in tongues in paganism. I know several pagans who speak in tongues, and those among them who claim that it's a real language that someone once recognized. Most that I am aware of utilize tongues as an "ecstatic utterance", not at all for its content, but more for the meditative aspects of it.
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hampshire73
Hi, everybody!
I just found this thread today and it's been interesting reading the posts. I know that some people faked speaking in tongues, but some didn't, including me. I also had two experiences with visitors understanding what I had said in tongues and when I asked, they both said that the interpretation was the same thing in English. One of these people was from Puerto Rico and the other was from Portugal. Each of them visited the twig I attended in college back in the 70s only once. Both of them thought that I knew the language I was speaking.
I have heard before that there were non-Christian religions that also believed in SIT. And, as far as fakers are concerned, I didn't feel it took any special revelation to spot some of them. I remember a guy who had been in the campus fellowship for a year or so when I started, and I couldn't help but notice that every time he "spoke in tongues" it was exactly the same thing, even though the interpetations were different. It got to the point where I could recite his "tongue" along with him. I always wondered why nobody ever said anything to him about it. (I wouldn't, because I was just a newbie and besides, I didn't want to hurt his feelings.)
I do remember those exceller's sessions, and I agree that some of the practices there were unnecessary and nonsensical. If you are getting the words directly from God, what sense does it make that you can pick a letter to start with?
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Seth R.
Oakspear and everyone I'll offer a couple quotes from one of my hero's, Carl Sagan:
Seth
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brideofjc
I always believed that mine were real, though primitive, if that is the right way to describe it. When I truly sought the LORD and repented of much, one day I was speaking in tongues and it began to change into a much more complicated language and it has since changed several more times. Perhaps as you grow in the LORD, he upgrades you, if you will. LOL.
As far as VPW's tongue, he was from the same generation that some, not all, don't wish to offend, AOG had actually produced a phonograph record and were "teaching" people to speak in tongues. Others that I heard must have learned it from repetition of others' tongues, because for a while it seemed that everyone that I heard from this particular denom were similar. Perhaps VPW had similar training.
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JavaJane
Might be a little off topic...
When I was a little kid (maybe 8 years old) I went through a phase where I would sing songs in a made up language (or that's what I thought it was, anyway.) This was years before my family had ever gotten involved with twi... I remember hearing my parents talking about it with some of their friends, who had asked them if they thought I was spreaking in tongues (not twi people - just a couple of old hippies like my folks)... After that my mom told me not to do it anymore because people would think I could speak in another language when I couldn't.
When my family got involved in twi I always wondered if maybe that was speaking in tongues.
On a completely different note - I read a book a long time ago about Behavioral Science perspectives on speaking in tongues. I think its title was Glossolalia. Written (I think) in the 70s. Great book, if you can find it... It mentioned twi and some kids who had been deprogrammed but still spoke in tongues. Their parents had them put in a mental institution. I hope they are ok now.
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nick
So i had this great idea when i was about 14. I was going to record every tounges with interpratation at every fellowship, and analize it. We had been taught that some people had more than one tounge, and that many people spoke in the tounges of angels. I was going to study each one, and compare them to as many languages as I could find.
For the tounges of men, identifying who spoke which would be the ultimate witnessing tool.
As far as the tounges of angels went, well learning to speak a little of those just sounds cool.
Wouldn't you know it, pulling out the tape recorder at fellowship is the same thing as jumping off a cliff as expecting god to save you, according to but my parents and the local way corps. Foiled again?
Oh, and for what its worth, I belived I was speaking in tounges at the time, but I know better now. Just like I know now that I couldn't "disern the evil crawling on that f*g in my band class" or that I didn't "already heal your cold, the symptons will take care of themselves by tomorrow if you believe."
It was nice to have super powers, though...
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Seth R.
Hey Waysider, I'd love to see this as a whole separate topic. Good stuff my friend.
Seth
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