For those who may not be aware of how this works, I offer the following explanation:
Two believers decide to go mall witnessing. They cruise the mall until they see a potential target,alone and unoccupied on a bench.
They split up and one casually sits next to the target. Next, the second believer(the shill) moves in and sits next to them, striking up a conversation with believer #1 but not acknowledging the fact that they know each other. The conversation (the topic being The Word, of course) will ultimately lead to the two believers being on somewhat opposing but innocuous sides of a "debate". At this point, the target may feel compelled to take sides with one of the two, thus drawing himself into the discussion, completely unaware that he has taken the bait. That's the proverbial foot-in-the-door that would otherwise be difficult to find and will hopefully lead to a signature on the familiar "green card".
There are lots of variations. I've seen it done in bars and outdoor festivals as well.
I never understood why people had to read Dale Carnegies how to win friends and influence people,it shouldn't be work
just talking to people,
Well, I agree with you---- (in the context of a genuinely philanthropic organization).
Trouble is, TWI was, in reality, a pyramid scheme, otherwise known as as a multi-level-marketing organization or MLM for short.
It was all about the bottom line. Wierwille was a cold fish who could put on a very good front. He didn't really care if you lived or died as long as the money kept flowing in his direction. If you think that assessment is a bit too cold, please re-read the L.E.A.D. accident thread and decide for yourself. It was all about Wierwille, maintaining his cushy lifestyle and promoting his anti-Semitic, Liberty Lobby, white supremacy agenda. Had he been genuine, it would have broken his heart to see the way people suffered and died to sustain his lifestyle.-------------- dirty bastage!!!
Point of history rhino - who confirmed that was staged, the naming of "Takit"?
The name came out of some conversations Vince F and JN had, over several months. A lot of ideas were getting kicked around about what Way Prod. might do next. In conversation on the road Vince talked about "taking it to the top", and the phrase "take it" was used several times. Brian B. was scratching some stuff out on a piece of paper and said "why not call it "Take it" then - Takeit became Takit and that was the name.
If anyone has eluded to that being "revelation" they're wrong if they're saying that "God" popped the name in anyone's noggin and it came rolling out. Maybe it was for all I know, I doubt it, but I don't remember anyone claiiming that. And if it's Vince F and the JN I was in, I don't remember ever staging a retelling of that in West Virginia, as if it were.
There were several versions of JN, I was a member from it's inception through 1980. A lot of what we did was rehearsed, and a lot wasn't. Many of the song "introductions" and sharings between songs were done more than once, rehearsed, yes, but that wasn't intended to be BS.
More often than not though if we felt inspired, we'd go to something different, if we it was on our heart. Sometimes it resonated and hit a chord with an audience, sometimes not. Sometimes just one person, sometimes we'd never know.
They were basically things we felt communicated around the songs we'd written and were performing, and were crafted efforts to help and hopefully bless the listener. We definitely discussed and went over a set of songs and rehearsed them. That's a "duh". We were a very different group of people, from many different backgrounds and skill levels.
Point of history rhino - who confirmed that was staged, the naming of "Takit"?
The name came out of some conversations Vince F and JN had, over several months. A lot of ideas were getting kicked around about what Way Prod. might do next. In conversation on the road Vince talked about "taking it to the top", and the phrase "take it" was used several times. Brian B. was scratching some stuff out on a piece of paper and said "why not call it "Take it" then - Takeit became Takit and that was the name.
If anyone has eluded to that being "revelation" they're wrong if they're saying that "God" popped the name in anyone's noggin and it came rolling out. Maybe it was for all I know, I doubt it, but I don't remember anyone claiiming that. And if it's Vince F and the JN I was in, I don't remember ever staging a retelling of that in West Virginia, as if it were.
My point about the staged toilet seat shill, was that it was a known and used technique, to use the shill.
The Takit thing, we were in Charleston sometime '79/80, Steve Sa+tini's living room maybe ... anyway .. Vince and a few from JN were sitting there with us, and Vince and all pretended to be deciding on the name of the group ... someone would say, how about blah blah ... evolving to taking it .. then blah blah ... then someone says Takit .. then blah blah ... like the whole thing had evolved right then in ten minutes. It didn't start with taking it to the top even ... and no mention that these had been discussed before.
I don't know if they actually said that was progressive revelation or whatever, but that is how I recall it. I think it was just corps there, so it seemed they were trying to look spiritual or something ... it seemed odd even then, like to make us feel part of this inspirational moment.
I understand JN would no doubt do the same intro's at times ... or sometimes improv ... but this was more play acting but trying to really trick us into thinking it was happening right then. So it fit with the "shill" thread. I wasn't saying anything about where the real "inspiration" for the name "Takit" came from.
Here is the link from a couple years ago I found where Sunesis says they came up with it at HQ.
Point of history rhino - who confirmed that was staged, the naming of "Takit"?
The name came out of some conversations Vince F and JN had, over several months. A lot of ideas were getting kicked around about what Way Prod. might do next. In conversation on the road Vince talked about "taking it to the top", and the phrase "take it" was used several times. Brian B. was scratching some stuff out on a piece of paper and said "why not call it "Take it" then - Takeit became Takit and that was the name.
If anyone has eluded to that being "revelation" they're wrong if they're saying that "God" popped the name in anyone's noggin and it came rolling out. Maybe it was for all I know, I doubt it, but I don't remember anyone claiiming that. And if it's Vince F and the JN I was in, I don't remember ever staging a retelling of that in West Virginia, as if it were.
There were several versions of JN, I was a member from it's inception through 1980. A lot of what we did was rehearsed, and a lot wasn't. Many of the song "introductions" and sharings between songs were done more than once, rehearsed, yes, but that wasn't intended to be BS.
More often than not though if we felt inspired, we'd go to something different, if we it was on our heart. Sometimes it resonated and hit a chord with an audience, sometimes not. Sometimes just one person, sometimes we'd never know.
They were basically things we felt communicated around the songs we'd written and were performing, and were crafted efforts to help and hopefully bless the listener. We definitely discussed and went over a set of songs and rehearsed them. That's a "duh". We were a very different group of people, from many different backgrounds and skill levels.
Socks
I still enjoy those first three Joyful Noise albums all though now in CD form, simple songs by today' standards but the heart in the music makes up for that.
To bad they used such cheap tapes back then it didn't do the music justice. Sometime in the 90s Mark Gl*ck*n sent me a remastered JN 1. I swear it was a new record, I think I finally heard your guitar work for the first time, rather than this muffled vibration. I remember VP at Emporia brought some of the first tapes, They had the masking tape strips like they used for the old Sunday reel to reel tapes for a tape label.
The name for Takeit/Takit/Tookit was born on a bus the way I described it. I can't verify what others say about it. (Sounds like a blues song.)
The idea of a new band, new direction, new clothes, new do's, was being discussed by many people, many places, many times. My point of reference is the Joyful Noise discussion.
I heard those remixes and have a set, WD. It was an improvement, to be sure. A lot of the analog blur came from the Stevenson mixing board, which was a live board being used for a recording environment. Mark G and especially Mike W. did a lot of work on that board, Mike pretty much did rewiring miracles with it but it was never an ideal recording board. Mike was the epitome of patience with that stuff. Mark was very good at finding the sweet spot of a piece of equipment.
Part of the difficulty with Mark G's remixes is that the bottom drops out in spots to get that range he found. I think he found some fidelity but I don't think it's the actual original sound of the stuff. Good job though.
Two believers decide to go mall witnessing. They cruise the mall until they see a potential target,alone and unoccupied on a bench.
They split up and one casually sits next to the target. Next, the second believer(the shill) moves in and sits next to them, striking up a conversation with believer #1 but not acknowledging the fact that they know each other. The conversation (the topic being The Word, of course) will ultimately lead to the two believers being on somewhat opposing but innocuous sides of a "debate". At this point, the target may feel compelled to take sides with one of the two, thus drawing himself into the discussion, completely unaware that he has taken the bait. That's the proverbial foot-in-the-door that would otherwise be difficult to find and will hopefully lead to a signature on the familiar "green card".
There are lots of variations. I've seen it done in bars and outdoor festivals as well.
I knew a girl Wow family that alhough probably not technically "shilling" while um..witnessing.... had a bait and switch technique that signed up quite a few....It was probably not unique to them..
They'd spend their week and weekend nights at the local club drinking and dancing and would whisper into just about any guys ear that they got close to...come to my house thursday at 7:30....
Thats all, nothing about classes, bibles, or any godstuff--just some scantily clad 20 something inviting them over to their house...
When the poor bastage showed up for his presumably very hot date that he was lead to believe was happening , he would be ambushed by bibles and green cards...
<_<
I know a whole hatful of guys whose whole "christian conversion experience" is really nothing more than a desire to get laid that has gone awry
I know a whole hatful of guys whose whole "christian conversion experience" is really nothing more than a desire to get laid that has gone awry
Well hopefully George Aar will take this as humor...since he posted a response to Suneisis on another thread that the only reason he got involved was that he was chasing a skirt... and since you Mstar make a similar, albeit more general, comment - using the word awry - perhaps we should rename George Aar to George Awry...any takers?
When I was at Emporia, we were all going to the Kansas limb meeting, and they instructed us before hand to give a standing ovation for the song "Freedom's Soil." Now I liked that song anyway, and it usually got an enthusiastic response. But there was something phony about being told ahead of time and staging a standing O as if it were spontaneous.
I don't know if they actually said that was progressive revelation or whatever, but that is how I recall it. I think it was just corps there, so it seemed they were trying to look spiritual or something ... it seemed odd even then, like to make us feel part of this inspirational moment.
I see what you're saying now. This may have actually been shortly after the initial idea for the name came up. At the time I'm remembering when we were kicking this around, it was like yeah. That would be a great name. I wasn't the only one who got the feeling that it was a good name for the band we were talking about. I don't remember the W. V. hoo-haw though, but if you do I'll take that at face value. Maybe I wasn't there, but I don't remember if I was.
The idea for forming something new was being discussed for a long time, and it wasn't out of the minds of just a few. The whole concept of how Way Productions developed there the last few years of it's "hey-day" is moderately humorous.
Rewind to 1971, a Winter Youth Advance at the Way Nash, and a concert held in Minster by the Way over the weekend that was named "The Rock of Ages". I'd come out with "Cookin' Mama" and a bunch of the California crew, and we played. There was lots of music there. Then the summer hit, Cookin' Mama had been playing steady for a couple years there in the Bay Area and by then we're all "grads" of PFAL. We hit the road and visited Kansas, Indianapolis, and stopped in Ohio for the first ROA "'71", then went on to New York. Dove was in Kansas, although we booked a gig with another local outfit named "Crank", and did several nights there. Good Seed in Indiana and we played a gig or two there. Everyone in at the Way Nash for the summer and then in New York, and we gigged around and played a couple nights with Pressed Down. Then the long drive back to Cali and back to work.
To some people this was some kind of "youth" outreach, where bands were singing Christian music to reach others and bring them to the Way. To those bands though it was what we did, we played and worked and as we progressed along we decided to mix in songs about Jesus Christ, God, the bible, and assorted thoughts. And stuff. There were a lot of musical endeavors, music was a big part of the times and the lives of the people. It came with the territory.
At it's best it was authentic, an honest effort by those involved to express what they felt and believed. BS? Plenty of that, more than you can imagine. It goes with the territory too.
The more these kinds of efforts fell to be planned and orchestrated by those outside the immediate effort, non-musicians, "leaders" and the like, the more it sucked. Offering the opportunity and capacity to get people together and do and try some things - that was good. Working together - that was good. More and more it seemed like people with no vision, no talent and no compassion ran the thing. That was bad.
There were a lot of musical endeavors, music was a big part of the times and the lives of the people. It came with the territory.
At it's best it was authentic, an honest effort by those involved to express what they felt and believed. BS? Plenty of that, more than you can imagine. It goes with the territory too.
The more these kinds of efforts fell to be planned and orchestrated by those outside the immediate effort, non-musicians, "leaders" and the like, the more it sucked. Offering the opportunity and capacity to get people together and do and try some things - that was good. Working together - that was good. More and more it seemed like people with no vision, no talent and no compassion ran the thing. That was bad.
I don't remember who was there, it was just three or four and vince as I recall. Maybe they were trying to demonstrate how to work an idea.
To mix threads a little ... imagine if there was an offering taken or the local host fellowships did some collection for the traveling minstrels. The minstrels would have been directly taken care of, maybe even well paid. There would have been less drive to push the sales aspect ... the musicians would have been independent.
Instead there was maybe more of the hard sell or the shill or whatever, but the freedom of the musicians instead came under corporate control, and I guess they were not paid much at all, leading to more anxieties and stress.
Sending all the money to the "top" made everyone subject to the supreme leader ... vp. I guess some were just trapped, and some loved their job or their mission or co-workers enough to work dirt cheap.
At loy boy's advanced class "retake" I remember.. one of the "to bring" items, practically highlighted was a flashlight.
During a session while the loyster was present, the lights went out. Quiet panic ensued, while people fumbled in pockets and briefcases for the said items.. the loyster practically alluded to the fact it was proof he had divine "revelation" for it to be on the list.. and I thought.. "sheesh, what a moron.. he just had some lackey throw the switch.. "
At it's best it was authentic, an honest effort by those involved to express what they felt and believed. BS? Plenty of that, more than you can imagine. It goes with the territory too.
The more these kinds of efforts fell to be planned and orchestrated by those outside the immediate effort, non-musicians, "leaders" and the like, the more it sucked. Offering the opportunity and capacity to get people together and do and try some things - that was good. Working together - that was good. More and more it seemed like people with no vision, no talent and no compassion ran the thing. That was bad.
socks,
Awesome stuff, and it's inspiring hearing about what was a genuine grassroots movement. People can sense that kind of stuff deep in the heart, and that's what draws and attracts them. Quite a contrast to what the lifelessness of way prod went more and more towards over time.
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cheranne
I really like Way Productions,I liked it because I replaced that music for my 70's rock music (you know old man stuff)
but it was all Psychological Operations,positive or negative or mixed in with a dash of LIES to promote Pfal,wow or TWI.
In War College they do basically the same thing,stratigic targets,give up your weapons you are surrounded,At Fort Bragg
in North Carolina Home of the 82nd Airborne,and Special Forces all they do is train,train and train. It is also a base for
the Psychological Operations Bn who SUPPORRTED BOTH.
Like any prodution rehearsal to get it perfect...BUT AT WHOSE EXPENSE and how many lives spiritually did TWI screw?
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waysider
For those who may not be aware of how this works, I offer the following explanation:
Two believers decide to go mall witnessing. They cruise the mall until they see a potential target,alone and unoccupied on a bench.
They split up and one casually sits next to the target. Next, the second believer(the shill) moves in and sits next to them, striking up a conversation with believer #1 but not acknowledging the fact that they know each other. The conversation (the topic being The Word, of course) will ultimately lead to the two believers being on somewhat opposing but innocuous sides of a "debate". At this point, the target may feel compelled to take sides with one of the two, thus drawing himself into the discussion, completely unaware that he has taken the bait. That's the proverbial foot-in-the-door that would otherwise be difficult to find and will hopefully lead to a signature on the familiar "green card".
There are lots of variations. I've seen it done in bars and outdoor festivals as well.
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excathedra
how interesting in makes-my-stomach-turn kind of way
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cheranne
If you believe in something your selling,its a sales pitch. I never liked "witnessing" and would just go about my day and
invite people over for twig and let them see if it was for them or not.
I never understood why people had to read Dale Carnegies how to win friends and influence people,it shouldn't be work
just talking to people,
Maybe that is why I hate sales people coming up to me in stores..just leave me alone..just looking!
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waysider
Well, I agree with you---- (in the context of a genuinely philanthropic organization).
Trouble is, TWI was, in reality, a pyramid scheme, otherwise known as as a multi-level-marketing organization or MLM for short.
It was all about the bottom line. Wierwille was a cold fish who could put on a very good front. He didn't really care if you lived or died as long as the money kept flowing in his direction. If you think that assessment is a bit too cold, please re-read the L.E.A.D. accident thread and decide for yourself. It was all about Wierwille, maintaining his cushy lifestyle and promoting his anti-Semitic, Liberty Lobby, white supremacy agenda. Had he been genuine, it would have broken his heart to see the way people suffered and died to sustain his lifestyle.-------------- dirty bastage!!!
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now I see
Waysider,
Good observation, if vpw had been normal, the response would have been different...
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excathedra
no sheet if he had just been a nice person.....
maybe mogs are special !!!!!!!!
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WordWolf
It's not like vpw himself didn't prove he was fine with the concept.
After all, in "the way:living in love", vpw admitted to doing it.
When some Christians were honestly trying to help him speak in tongues,
and they told him to speak in another language,
he intentionally spoke in a language he knew, since that-technically-
matched the letter of what they asked, even though it mutilated the intent
of what they obviously meant.
vpw faked speaking in tongues, and was SMUG about having deceived
the other Christians.
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socks
Point of history rhino - who confirmed that was staged, the naming of "Takit"?
The name came out of some conversations Vince F and JN had, over several months. A lot of ideas were getting kicked around about what Way Prod. might do next. In conversation on the road Vince talked about "taking it to the top", and the phrase "take it" was used several times. Brian B. was scratching some stuff out on a piece of paper and said "why not call it "Take it" then - Takeit became Takit and that was the name.
If anyone has eluded to that being "revelation" they're wrong if they're saying that "God" popped the name in anyone's noggin and it came rolling out. Maybe it was for all I know, I doubt it, but I don't remember anyone claiiming that. And if it's Vince F and the JN I was in, I don't remember ever staging a retelling of that in West Virginia, as if it were.
There were several versions of JN, I was a member from it's inception through 1980. A lot of what we did was rehearsed, and a lot wasn't. Many of the song "introductions" and sharings between songs were done more than once, rehearsed, yes, but that wasn't intended to be BS.
More often than not though if we felt inspired, we'd go to something different, if we it was on our heart. Sometimes it resonated and hit a chord with an audience, sometimes not. Sometimes just one person, sometimes we'd never know.
They were basically things we felt communicated around the songs we'd written and were performing, and were crafted efforts to help and hopefully bless the listener. We definitely discussed and went over a set of songs and rehearsed them. That's a "duh". We were a very different group of people, from many different backgrounds and skill levels.
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rhino
My point about the staged toilet seat shill, was that it was a known and used technique, to use the shill.
The Takit thing, we were in Charleston sometime '79/80, Steve Sa+tini's living room maybe ... anyway .. Vince and a few from JN were sitting there with us, and Vince and all pretended to be deciding on the name of the group ... someone would say, how about blah blah ... evolving to taking it .. then blah blah ... then someone says Takit .. then blah blah ... like the whole thing had evolved right then in ten minutes. It didn't start with taking it to the top even ... and no mention that these had been discussed before.
I don't know if they actually said that was progressive revelation or whatever, but that is how I recall it. I think it was just corps there, so it seemed they were trying to look spiritual or something ... it seemed odd even then, like to make us feel part of this inspirational moment.
I understand JN would no doubt do the same intro's at times ... or sometimes improv ... but this was more play acting but trying to really trick us into thinking it was happening right then. So it fit with the "shill" thread. I wasn't saying anything about where the real "inspiration" for the name "Takit" came from.
Here is the link from a couple years ago I found where Sunesis says they came up with it at HQ.
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WhiteDove
Socks
I still enjoy those first three Joyful Noise albums all though now in CD form, simple songs by today' standards but the heart in the music makes up for that.
To bad they used such cheap tapes back then it didn't do the music justice. Sometime in the 90s Mark Gl*ck*n sent me a remastered JN 1. I swear it was a new record, I think I finally heard your guitar work for the first time, rather than this muffled vibration. I remember VP at Emporia brought some of the first tapes, They had the masking tape strips like they used for the old Sunday reel to reel tapes for a tape label.
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socks
The name for Takeit/Takit/Tookit was born on a bus the way I described it. I can't verify what others say about it. (Sounds like a blues song.)
The idea of a new band, new direction, new clothes, new do's, was being discussed by many people, many places, many times. My point of reference is the Joyful Noise discussion.
I heard those remixes and have a set, WD. It was an improvement, to be sure. A lot of the analog blur came from the Stevenson mixing board, which was a live board being used for a recording environment. Mark G and especially Mike W. did a lot of work on that board, Mike pretty much did rewiring miracles with it but it was never an ideal recording board. Mike was the epitome of patience with that stuff. Mark was very good at finding the sweet spot of a piece of equipment.
Part of the difficulty with Mark G's remixes is that the bottom drops out in spots to get that range he found. I think he found some fidelity but I don't think it's the actual original sound of the stuff. Good job though.
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mstar1
I knew a girl Wow family that alhough probably not technically "shilling" while um..witnessing.... had a bait and switch technique that signed up quite a few....It was probably not unique to them..
They'd spend their week and weekend nights at the local club drinking and dancing and would whisper into just about any guys ear that they got close to...come to my house thursday at 7:30....
Thats all, nothing about classes, bibles, or any godstuff--just some scantily clad 20 something inviting them over to their house...
When the poor bastage showed up for his presumably very hot date that he was lead to believe was happening , he would be ambushed by bibles and green cards...
<_<
I know a whole hatful of guys whose whole "christian conversion experience" is really nothing more than a desire to get laid that has gone awry
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RumRunner
Well hopefully George Aar will take this as humor...since he posted a response to Suneisis on another thread that the only reason he got involved was that he was chasing a skirt... and since you Mstar make a similar, albeit more general, comment - using the word awry - perhaps we should rename George Aar to George Awry...any takers?
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Mark Clarke
When I was at Emporia, we were all going to the Kansas limb meeting, and they instructed us before hand to give a standing ovation for the song "Freedom's Soil." Now I liked that song anyway, and it usually got an enthusiastic response. But there was something phony about being told ahead of time and staging a standing O as if it were spontaneous.
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JeffSjo
I know, me too. As if showmanship and manipulation could take the place of love and inspiration. Yuck.
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socks
I see what you're saying now. This may have actually been shortly after the initial idea for the name came up. At the time I'm remembering when we were kicking this around, it was like yeah. That would be a great name. I wasn't the only one who got the feeling that it was a good name for the band we were talking about. I don't remember the W. V. hoo-haw though, but if you do I'll take that at face value. Maybe I wasn't there, but I don't remember if I was.
The idea for forming something new was being discussed for a long time, and it wasn't out of the minds of just a few. The whole concept of how Way Productions developed there the last few years of it's "hey-day" is moderately humorous.
Rewind to 1971, a Winter Youth Advance at the Way Nash, and a concert held in Minster by the Way over the weekend that was named "The Rock of Ages". I'd come out with "Cookin' Mama" and a bunch of the California crew, and we played. There was lots of music there. Then the summer hit, Cookin' Mama had been playing steady for a couple years there in the Bay Area and by then we're all "grads" of PFAL. We hit the road and visited Kansas, Indianapolis, and stopped in Ohio for the first ROA "'71", then went on to New York. Dove was in Kansas, although we booked a gig with another local outfit named "Crank", and did several nights there. Good Seed in Indiana and we played a gig or two there. Everyone in at the Way Nash for the summer and then in New York, and we gigged around and played a couple nights with Pressed Down. Then the long drive back to Cali and back to work.
To some people this was some kind of "youth" outreach, where bands were singing Christian music to reach others and bring them to the Way. To those bands though it was what we did, we played and worked and as we progressed along we decided to mix in songs about Jesus Christ, God, the bible, and assorted thoughts. And stuff. There were a lot of musical endeavors, music was a big part of the times and the lives of the people. It came with the territory.
At it's best it was authentic, an honest effort by those involved to express what they felt and believed. BS? Plenty of that, more than you can imagine. It goes with the territory too.
The more these kinds of efforts fell to be planned and orchestrated by those outside the immediate effort, non-musicians, "leaders" and the like, the more it sucked. Offering the opportunity and capacity to get people together and do and try some things - that was good. Working together - that was good. More and more it seemed like people with no vision, no talent and no compassion ran the thing. That was bad.
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rhino
I don't remember who was there, it was just three or four and vince as I recall. Maybe they were trying to demonstrate how to work an idea.
To mix threads a little ... imagine if there was an offering taken or the local host fellowships did some collection for the traveling minstrels. The minstrels would have been directly taken care of, maybe even well paid. There would have been less drive to push the sales aspect ... the musicians would have been independent.
Instead there was maybe more of the hard sell or the shill or whatever, but the freedom of the musicians instead came under corporate control, and I guess they were not paid much at all, leading to more anxieties and stress.
Sending all the money to the "top" made everyone subject to the supreme leader ... vp. I guess some were just trapped, and some loved their job or their mission or co-workers enough to work dirt cheap.
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Ham
At loy boy's advanced class "retake" I remember.. one of the "to bring" items, practically highlighted was a flashlight.
During a session while the loyster was present, the lights went out. Quiet panic ensued, while people fumbled in pockets and briefcases for the said items.. the loyster practically alluded to the fact it was proof he had divine "revelation" for it to be on the list.. and I thought.. "sheesh, what a moron.. he just had some lackey throw the switch.. "
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chockfull
socks,
Awesome stuff, and it's inspiring hearing about what was a genuine grassroots movement. People can sense that kind of stuff deep in the heart, and that's what draws and attracts them. Quite a contrast to what the lifelessness of way prod went more and more towards over time.
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