Ever since I came to The Greasespot Cafe I've been learning things about TWI that weren't covered by any other sources that I've found.
Some of my conclusions still technically rate as opinion, but with so much testimony about how TWI abused people, destroyed lives, and totally mishandled the scriptures. (I know the biblical part doesn't matter to all my friends, but I've gotta point it out because TWI was billed as a biblical ministry.)
What does TWI deserve from anybody in terms of financial support, or for that matter, how about the "splinter groups" or all the book sellers?
In another thread I just read a long time poster comment about a certain weariness about all the TWI warnings on this site. Oddly enough, considering this poster's and my history, I AGREE. The agreement is there in this respect, I don't see any reason for continued warning without good cause.
So I think if there is no real reason, what do we have to say?
IF THEY DO NOT LOVE YOU.
IF THEY CANNOT TREAT THE SCRIPTURES RIGHT.
IF THE SPLINTER GROUPS REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUFFERING OF TWI VICTIMS. Remember poeople, it could have just as easily been your loved ones that were ruined.
If they cannot summon the simple boldness to handle these issues honestly, out here in broad daylight where all of us can see the fruit.
I SAY THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY FOLKS.
HOW CAN THEY TEACH YOU ABOUT GOD WHEN THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH. They can't acknowledge the truth, THEY CANNOT THEREFORE EVEN FACE GOD, let alone speak on His behalf.
This is my reason to warn folks today.
PEOPLE,THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY OR YOUR SUPPORT.
LET THE LIARS AND THE COVER-UP ARTISTS NOT GET ANOTHER BIT OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY.
IF THEY DO NOT LOVE YOU, WHY DO YOU BUY THEIR BOOKS?
P.S. I think there are plenty of good groups out there, just be sure that there worthy people.
IT LOOKS TO ME THAT MANY OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN TWI LEADERSHIP WERE TOTAL BASTARDS ANYWAY. It'd be better to keep you money folks, really.
We were told by Bob and Kathy Mathieson that we should tithe where ever the Lord leads us to tithe, and not specifically to their ministry. I think they are on the level.
I think for me one of the biggest things that I have to contend with (Just like everybody else for their own reasons) is what have I learned lately.
Here at GSC I've learned that young women were abused and thrown away by the very people that I used to be sure were "good people."
I used to believe that Dr. Wierwille learned everything from studying the bible after he threw away all his other books as he said, only to find that he copied from many other men but made sure to keep all the credit to himself, and then allowed people to magnify him to be the MOGFDAT.
Even though I've seen and heard hints of these problems over the years, I never believed these problems were true until recently.
There are plenty of other problems too, just read some more GSC.
To make things worse, IMO CHR!S G$$R, LCM, AND OTHER TOP TWI LEADERSHIP HAVE HID THE TRUTH OF THESE THINGS FOR YEARS, IMO seeking to slow down and even stop the reporting of the corruption that existed in TWI.
I know that Chr!ss G$$r is teaching a class somewhat based on PFAL.
Chr!s G$$r and his class can kiss my you know what. People who are taking that class should know that that bastard G$$r has been covering up this TWI abuse for years.
IT SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN TO EVERYONE, THAT BASTARD G$$R DOESN'T DESERVE YOUR MONEY.
I don't know a lot of TWI splinter groups or their leaders. But I don't see how they can have a clear conscience if they've heard what I've heard lately.
My own little splinter group leader was a heartless ghoul that seems to only desire to control people lock, stock, and barrell. That splinter doctrine has cost me much. But not near as much as TWI abuse has cost some of my new friends.
FOLKS, PLEASE, MAKE SURE YOU LOOK AT ALL THE INFORMATION BEFORE GIVING YOUR MONEY TO ANYBODY WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH OF THESE THINGS. THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY. I BELIEVE THEY ARE IN BIG TROUBLE WITH THE LORD.
I am not in or from TWI, but I will offer my services here and now as a collector for any and all moneys that may be lying around and getting cranky for want of a good home. Send those loose dollars to socksIslandGetaway@DontHideItDivideIt.com immediately for fast relief. Rest easy, knowing all money received will only be used for the furtherance of good work.
Or join my latest and newest effort - Club Winners! - one of the fastest growing online organizations for all those who truly wish to prosper. Its simple - use the E-Z form at YouWin!.com to pledge a monthly amount to me and I, socks, will guarantee you a place in line with all the other Winners! at YouWin!.com. Its fun and easy. Start winnning now! There are no losers, so you cant lose!!!
Good question. All questions will be answered in the order theyre received, once your donations have been processed. You cant win till you join, and you only lose by waiting! I only want you to win! Win now! And often! Thank you, youre the best!!!!
Anyone know where to find the stuff Raf did on the tithe?
Here's some of it Waysider, there's probably more but (let me look) ---- >>>
Error 20
In Christians Should Be Prosperous:
Wierwille writes that throughout the Bible, material prosperity has always hinged on tithing.
In truth:
The falsity of this statement is too simple for words. Abraham had material prosperity before he tithed. Jacob had material prosperity before he tithed. The Egyptians probably did not tithe, and had great wealth. There’s no reason to believe Job ever tithed at any time ever, yet he prospered greatly prior to his calamity, and he prospered greatly afterward. There are people who do not tithe, yet prosper. There are people who tithe, yet do not prosper. Tithing is clearly not the hinge for prosperity.
Hmmm. Got to thinking (yea -- dangerous I know --- given MY mental abilities), but:
After reading through this here, I figure there are some folks in twi who might deserve money.
Those in rez and those on the field, because they sure as H*** aren't being supported by hdqtrs.
I mind the time (back 30 odd years ago) I gave support to corps folks who needed it, and didn't feel bad about it at all. Don't even feel bad about it today. I gave to those who were in need, and they appreciated every dollar they got, to do what they were committed to do. I was honoring their committment and what little I had at the time I gave as I could.
I've given to WOW's before too, who were (COUGH!!) not believing properly, and down on their luck.
(Woops!!! Can I say *luck* in this context???) :o
I got into *trouble* for that with "leaders" cause I (when asked) said that was abundant sharing.
Was told point blank that it was NOT abundant sharing. ABS had to go to hdqtrs.
They got in my face, and I got in theirs. I was GIVING (and that -- to the *believers*).
Short of the long of it is --- I used to (back then) work at a place that collected for United Way.
They prided themselves that EVERY employee gave to the United Way, until I came along.
I wouldn't (and never did) donate to the annual drive for the United Way, cause they weren't the *best*. I saved my dollars for those of the *family* in need. I had it out with my employer the same way I had it out with the tc, bl, etc.
Nowdays I give my money to those in town who truely need it (if I have it to spare), with NO THOUGHT of tithing or reaping *eternal rewards* by doing so. Maybe it's a missiion for the homeless. Maybe it's a *bum* on the street. Might be the local soup kitchen. Maybe it's a church somewhere that is doing something I agree with. Maybe it's a friend in need with NO religious inclinations. Who cares??? They have a need, and if I can help, I will.
And if I was in twi today --- you bet your @$$ ---- I'd claim it as ABS.
Nother words -- some folks deserve being helped. Orgs like twi don't.
Your sharing reminds me of the awesome simplicity of giving to friends and strangers who need help. Not for reward or praise of men, but because a heart is simply moved out of love and compassion.
When I think of the things in the epistles I see people loving each other through the hardest of times, and consequently helping. Paul certainly lived through the hardest of times but even told the Corintians that he didn't ask them for help. AWESOME, HEROIC, SELFLESS, IMO a near perfect example.
When I think of what TWI became I think of heartless, legalistic, overbearing, corrupt, and greedy leadership who ended up desiring to fill their own bellies worst of all. BLECH!
At times they were willing to end up enduring all the suffering that their victims; er, twigs I mean; could bear just to look good to top leadership who filled their twisted bellies on this sacrifice of requirement; er, love I mean: o.k. they didn't require love just to fill their bellies, just send in the dough or there will be some major league reproof; er, I mean bullying.
IT SEEMS VERY CLEAR THAT WITHOUT SOME MAJOR LEAGUE HUMILITY BEFORE GOD AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT IT BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO SEND ANY OF THESE TOP LEADERSHIP ONE SINGLE PENNY. Especially you Chr!s G$$r.
But for those of you whose fellowship is blessed with real love and good will, give and recieve to your hearts content.
At that point it wouldn't really matter what anybody thinks anyway, because God's keeping score.
(added in editing)
Now that I think about it, with all the stories I've read about the WAYGB (until recently I thought that was Great Britain) I'm certain that anyone who controls a group of nasty,backstabbing skunks like these appears to be deserving not only to not have you send them your money, but these nasty, backstabbing skunks DESERVE to have all ministry property confiscated. SIGH Lord, how long.
IN THE MEAN TIME, JUST DON'T SEND THEM ANY MONEY.
p.s. If you think someones head is spinning, you gotta pick the nasty, backstabbing skunks IMO.
Jeff, it's with rare exception that those collecting money on God's behalf don't manage to do extremely well when it comes to salary.
Whether it's the selling of their own god-given and scintillating insights into life or just the usual tried and true plate passing, they don't go hungry to say the least.
When Jesus fed the hungry multitude everyone ate and there was plenty left over. Jesus blessed them and brought God's provisions to take care of His people and everyone ate. His cup ranneth over, as it were.
Today, it works in the reverse. Apparently you didn't get the memo.
God spills to the multitude - you - and then you spilleth over to your Local Friendly Minister. You feed them. Care for them. Provide for them. Make sure they have the best of everything, after all, they're God's Ministers and deserve no less. From you.
What these money-sucking tics will get from Him remains to be seen. If what I see in their ranks is normal, it will include bad hair and a fat assz.
“And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called [unto him]his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.” (Mr 12:41-44 AV)
Ever since I came to The Greasespot Cafe I've been learning things about TWI that weren't covered by any other sources that I've found.
Some of my conclusions still technically rate as opinion, but with so much testimony about how TWI abused people, destroyed lives, and totally mishandled the scriptures. (I know the biblical part doesn't matter to all my friends, but I've gotta point it out because TWI was billed as a biblical ministry.)
What does TWI deserve from anybody in terms of financial support, or for that matter, how about the "splinter groups" or all the book sellers?
In another thread I just read a long time poster comment about a certain weariness about all the TWI warnings on this site. Oddly enough, considering this poster's and my history, I AGREE. The agreement is there in this respect, I don't see any reason for continued warning without good cause.
So I think if there is no real reason, what do we have to say?
IF THEY DO NOT LOVE YOU.
IF THEY CANNOT TREAT THE SCRIPTURES RIGHT.
IF THE SPLINTER GROUPS REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUFFERING OF TWI VICTIMS. Remember poeople, it could have just as easily been your loved ones that were ruined.
If they cannot summon the simple boldness to handle these issues honestly, out here in broad daylight where all of us can see the fruit.
I SAY THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY FOLKS.
HOW CAN THEY TEACH YOU ABOUT GOD WHEN THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH. They can't acknowledge the truth, THEY CANNOT THEREFORE EVEN FACE GOD, let alone speak on His behalf.
This is my reason to warn folks today.
PEOPLE,THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY OR YOUR SUPPORT.
LET THE LIARS AND THE COVER-UP ARTISTS NOT GET ANOTHER BIT OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY.
IF THEY DO NOT LOVE YOU, WHY DO YOU BUY THEIR BOOKS?
P.S. I think there are plenty of good groups out there, just be sure that there worthy people.
IT LOOKS TO ME THAT MANY OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN TWI LEADERSHIP WERE TOTAL BASTARDS ANYWAY. It'd be better to keep you money folks, really.
gee, i'm just curious... are there really a lot of people at the gs that still give money to twi and its splinter groups?
i know i feel a little bit out of the loop, and there could be more people here involved with splinter groups than i realize...
seems to me, the splinter groups are just a chip off the old block and most folks would recognize that (but i could be wrong)
Jen-o, you forgot your signature sign off with "peace", so I'm really not convinced it's you!
Reading thru a bit of Jeff7's posts, it looks like he's decided to stop writing checks to TWI? I guess that includes giving free haircuts as well? Anyway, each to his own.
I think for most of us, the train left the station a long time ago, except for maybe Word Wolf? (I heard he's hanging out in Manhattan selling oysters on the half shell, to help out of work gay investment bankers!)
Reading thru a bit of Jeff7's posts, it looks like he's decided to stop writing checks to TWI? I guess that includes giving free haircuts as well? Anyway, each to his own.
Le Bump
Hi Bumpy,
It's been a while, I have over 300 posts now and I haven't had the pleasure of reading much from you in quite a while it seems.
You are correct about me not sending any money to TWI anymore, but it's been a long time since I have. I've been involved with a small splinter group since 1989 or so and many, many things that people share about TWI seem very clear to me now that I never could have considered before unless these things hadn't become clear to me in life-shattering detail, real up close and personal like. I like the greasespot in many respects because some things are different here then real life, so to speak.
Here, there is some distance between us and the folks we're talking too. I think for TWI victims this gives them a great chance to step back and review and rethink the conversation that "real life" does not allow.
In real life, the life-sucking ghoul that controls people's lives was real in my face, and I supported his ministry with not just my finances, but my life's direction as well.
So dealing with whether or not TWI deserves financial support in this forum is quite a breather for me in comparison.
But after hearing folks share about broken lives here at the greasespot I'm real sure that my splinter group leader learned how to break people, control them, and use them from the very worst of TWI practices, and all the while train people to keep up a very convincing false front to the casual observer, heck, for years he's been TRAINING his disciples to help him convince ex-wayfers that he is for real. I shudder to think of what will happen to people who get sucked in because what he's capable of is stealing everything a man or woman has and then discarding them like a piece of trash when he's done. If you want Bumpy, just take a good look at my life and then you'll know that for me this isn't fake, it is my life.
So I feel certain in my opinion that there are good people out there, and that people who learned their tricks from TWI (like Chr!s G$$r and his fellow former top TWI leadership thugs IMO) not only don't deserve our money, but that what they deserve will only happen to them by the will of GOD in HIS own time.
Looking at these things is part of what you refer to as "my own" Bumpy, not by my choice, but because it is my life, still mostly broken.....
Hey Jeff, good Swedish name. "Kann du prata Svenska"? Glad to hear you broke the posting barrier and become a GS vet. In about 900 years you might even catch up to Excie!
There's an old Monty Python film, "Life of Brian", have you seen it? If not, you might have a laugh?
I've found there's not too much in the past you can change, so living there 24/7 may not be such a good idea. Some have suggested here that in some cases seeking "professional" help might be the right way to go? You have to decide.
I'm sorry for all the heartache you have experienced in your search for spiritual understanding. We all felt that to various degrees in our TWI/CES cult days.
Hopefully your relationship with people here at GS and elsewhere, will help bring closure one day to the pain, and your time in this life will have greater meaning. :)
i think i would love to give my sponsors back their $10 and $20 a month
there was this one guy named eddie, he never did "ANYTHING" after i got him in the class except sponsor me
i'm sorry, eddie, please forgive me
i would give anything to know how you're doin' because you are such a great person. i feel like i used you. the way frucking ministry didn't think too much of you and i was to busy being a corps person to care
sheet
--
dot, what do you think ?
ps. he had an alcohol problem and i don't think i ever really helped him
Hey Jeff, good Swedish name. "Kann du prata Svenska"? Glad to hear you broke the posting barrier and become a GS vet. In about 900 years you might even catch up to Excie!
There's an old Monty Python film, "Life of Brian", have you seen it? If not, you might have a laugh?
I've found there's not too much in the past you can change, so living there 24/7 may not be such a good idea. Some have suggested here that in some cases seeking "professional" help might be the right way to go? You have to decide.
I'm sorry for all the heartache you have experienced in your search for spiritual understanding. We all felt that to various degrees in our TWI/CES cult days.
Hopefully your relationship with people here at GS and elsewhere, will help bring closure one day to the pain, and your time in this life will have greater meaning. :)
I think that's what the Lord would have wanted.
Bump
I sure do like your posts Bumpy, because they help me deal with real issues so much.
Is "Life of Brian" the movie about the loser, wannabe? I trust that things will become only clearer here.
As far as your advice to seek proffesional help I can only say that this kind of advice in this forum is absolutely unnecessary. It's all too easily taken as a backhanded cheap shot masquerading as kindness. This is one of the nasty and mean tactics that TWI leadership learned in their obnoxious WAY CORPS training. I've seen folks with sociopathic characteristics use it to subtly put people in their place when they believe they should be top dog.
This is the effect on people of this kind of advice from you Bumpy, and I recommend that you stop it. But for today I am content if everyone reads and makes up their own mind if you have bad intentions or not. I'm not going to do it, but I'm certain that a review of your past posts will reveal the certainty of whether or not you mean well. Personally, I don't think so.
Seeing as top TWI learned these control techniques that I'm speaking of I'm even more certain than ever that many, many TWI splinter groups don't deserve your money or support. You see folks, much of their training in the ministry was just learning how to push people around and be the top dog, so to speak.
IT IS WRITTEN, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory."
But what TWI leadership ended up learning was a style of leadership that epitomized strife and vainglory. They became puffed up little turds who were VERY good at putting you down to further their abuse of the body of Christ, oops, big mistake.
But in the mean time many people have had to suffer through the effects of their brutality. Many do and did need proffesional help. I just hope that they get whatever help they need, knowing that I'm no better than any of them.
I've stated what I think the Lord would have wanted, and what I believe he will do. I am ready to dance in the mean time.
cha cha cha.
(edited for spelling)
P.S. Dear Excathedra and Jen-o, Thank you for sharing. :)
Recommended Posts
brideofjc
When I think of at least a couple of thousand dollars that I wasted on books, collaterals, classes, prints, clothing et al, and then think of the
number of years that I've been out, coupled with the greatest bull market that we ever experienced up until 1999 or 2000....
geez, I bet a simple mutual fund would be up to about $20,000.00 by now.
Yeah Jeff, I know what you mean!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Anyone know where to find the stuff Raf did on the tithe?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Caveman
We were told by Bob and Kathy Mathieson that we should tithe where ever the Lord leads us to tithe, and not specifically to their ministry. I think they are on the level.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I think for me one of the biggest things that I have to contend with (Just like everybody else for their own reasons) is what have I learned lately.
Here at GSC I've learned that young women were abused and thrown away by the very people that I used to be sure were "good people."
I used to believe that Dr. Wierwille learned everything from studying the bible after he threw away all his other books as he said, only to find that he copied from many other men but made sure to keep all the credit to himself, and then allowed people to magnify him to be the MOGFDAT.
Even though I've seen and heard hints of these problems over the years, I never believed these problems were true until recently.
There are plenty of other problems too, just read some more GSC.
To make things worse, IMO CHR!S G$$R, LCM, AND OTHER TOP TWI LEADERSHIP HAVE HID THE TRUTH OF THESE THINGS FOR YEARS, IMO seeking to slow down and even stop the reporting of the corruption that existed in TWI.
I know that Chr!ss G$$r is teaching a class somewhat based on PFAL.
Chr!s G$$r and his class can kiss my you know what. People who are taking that class should know that that bastard G$$r has been covering up this TWI abuse for years.
IT SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN TO EVERYONE, THAT BASTARD G$$R DOESN'T DESERVE YOUR MONEY.
I don't know a lot of TWI splinter groups or their leaders. But I don't see how they can have a clear conscience if they've heard what I've heard lately.
My own little splinter group leader was a heartless ghoul that seems to only desire to control people lock, stock, and barrell. That splinter doctrine has cost me much. But not near as much as TWI abuse has cost some of my new friends.
FOLKS, PLEASE, MAKE SURE YOU LOOK AT ALL THE INFORMATION BEFORE GIVING YOUR MONEY TO ANYBODY WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH OF THESE THINGS. THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY. I BELIEVE THEY ARE IN BIG TROUBLE WITH THE LORD.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
I am not in or from TWI, but I will offer my services here and now as a collector for any and all moneys that may be lying around and getting cranky for want of a good home. Send those loose dollars to socksIslandGetaway@DontHideItDivideIt.com immediately for fast relief. Rest easy, knowing all money received will only be used for the furtherance of good work.
Or join my latest and newest effort - Club Winners! - one of the fastest growing online organizations for all those who truly wish to prosper. Its simple - use the E-Z form at YouWin!.com to pledge a monthly amount to me and I, socks, will guarantee you a place in line with all the other Winners! at YouWin!.com. Its fun and easy. Start winnning now! There are no losers, so you cant lose!!!
Edited by socksLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
could you go on further
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Good question. All questions will be answered in the order theyre received, once your donations have been processed. You cant win till you join, and you only lose by waiting! I only want you to win! Win now! And often! Thank you, youre the best!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Here's some of it Waysider, there's probably more but (let me look) ---- >>>
Error 20
In Christians Should Be Prosperous:
Wierwille writes that throughout the Bible, material prosperity has always hinged on tithing.
In truth:
The falsity of this statement is too simple for words. Abraham had material prosperity before he tithed. Jacob had material prosperity before he tithed. The Egyptians probably did not tithe, and had great wealth. There’s no reason to believe Job ever tithed at any time ever, yet he prospered greatly prior to his calamity, and he prospered greatly afterward. There are people who do not tithe, yet prosper. There are people who tithe, yet do not prosper. Tithing is clearly not the hinge for prosperity.
(end quote)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Hmmm. Got to thinking (yea -- dangerous I know --- given MY mental abilities), but:
After reading through this here, I figure there are some folks in twi who might deserve money.
Those in rez and those on the field, because they sure as H*** aren't being supported by hdqtrs.
I mind the time (back 30 odd years ago) I gave support to corps folks who needed it, and didn't feel bad about it at all. Don't even feel bad about it today. I gave to those who were in need, and they appreciated every dollar they got, to do what they were committed to do. I was honoring their committment and what little I had at the time I gave as I could.
I've given to WOW's before too, who were (COUGH!!) not believing properly, and down on their luck.
(Woops!!! Can I say *luck* in this context???) :o
I got into *trouble* for that with "leaders" cause I (when asked) said that was abundant sharing.
Was told point blank that it was NOT abundant sharing. ABS had to go to hdqtrs.
They got in my face, and I got in theirs. I was GIVING (and that -- to the *believers*).
Short of the long of it is --- I used to (back then) work at a place that collected for United Way.
They prided themselves that EVERY employee gave to the United Way, until I came along.
I wouldn't (and never did) donate to the annual drive for the United Way, cause they weren't the *best*. I saved my dollars for those of the *family* in need. I had it out with my employer the same way I had it out with the tc, bl, etc.
Nowdays I give my money to those in town who truely need it (if I have it to spare), with NO THOUGHT of tithing or reaping *eternal rewards* by doing so. Maybe it's a missiion for the homeless. Maybe it's a *bum* on the street. Might be the local soup kitchen. Maybe it's a church somewhere that is doing something I agree with. Maybe it's a friend in need with NO religious inclinations. Who cares??? They have a need, and if I can help, I will.
And if I was in twi today --- you bet your @$$ ---- I'd claim it as ABS.
Nother words -- some folks deserve being helped. Orgs like twi don't.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Thanks DMiller,
Your sharing reminds me of the awesome simplicity of giving to friends and strangers who need help. Not for reward or praise of men, but because a heart is simply moved out of love and compassion.
Dear Socks,
Pointed sarcasm, and a good point. Gotta love it.
always.
______________________________________________________
When I think of the things in the epistles I see people loving each other through the hardest of times, and consequently helping. Paul certainly lived through the hardest of times but even told the Corintians that he didn't ask them for help. AWESOME, HEROIC, SELFLESS, IMO a near perfect example.
When I think of what TWI became I think of heartless, legalistic, overbearing, corrupt, and greedy leadership who ended up desiring to fill their own bellies worst of all. BLECH!
At times they were willing to end up enduring all the suffering that their victims; er, twigs I mean; could bear just to look good to top leadership who filled their twisted bellies on this sacrifice of requirement; er, love I mean: o.k. they didn't require love just to fill their bellies, just send in the dough or there will be some major league reproof; er, I mean bullying.
IT SEEMS VERY CLEAR THAT WITHOUT SOME MAJOR LEAGUE HUMILITY BEFORE GOD AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT IT BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO SEND ANY OF THESE TOP LEADERSHIP ONE SINGLE PENNY. Especially you Chr!s G$$r.
But for those of you whose fellowship is blessed with real love and good will, give and recieve to your hearts content.
At that point it wouldn't really matter what anybody thinks anyway, because God's keeping score.
(added in editing)
Now that I think about it, with all the stories I've read about the WAYGB (until recently I thought that was Great Britain) I'm certain that anyone who controls a group of nasty,backstabbing skunks like these appears to be deserving not only to not have you send them your money, but these nasty, backstabbing skunks DESERVE to have all ministry property confiscated. SIGH Lord, how long.
IN THE MEAN TIME, JUST DON'T SEND THEM ANY MONEY.
p.s. If you think someones head is spinning, you gotta pick the nasty, backstabbing skunks IMO.
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Jeff, it's with rare exception that those collecting money on God's behalf don't manage to do extremely well when it comes to salary.
Whether it's the selling of their own god-given and scintillating insights into life or just the usual tried and true plate passing, they don't go hungry to say the least.
When Jesus fed the hungry multitude everyone ate and there was plenty left over. Jesus blessed them and brought God's provisions to take care of His people and everyone ate. His cup ranneth over, as it were.
Today, it works in the reverse. Apparently you didn't get the memo.
God spills to the multitude - you - and then you spilleth over to your Local Friendly Minister. You feed them. Care for them. Provide for them. Make sure they have the best of everything, after all, they're God's Ministers and deserve no less. From you.
What these money-sucking tics will get from Him remains to be seen.
If what I see in their ranks is normal, it will include bad hair and a fat assz.
Edited by socksLink to comment
Share on other sites
anotherDan
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steveo
I agree with you totally !
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jen-o
gee, i'm just curious... are there really a lot of people at the gs that still give money to twi and its splinter groups?
i know i feel a little bit out of the loop, and there could be more people here involved with splinter groups than i realize...
seems to me, the splinter groups are just a chip off the old block and most folks would recognize that (but i could be wrong)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Jen-o, you forgot your signature sign off with "peace", so I'm really not convinced it's you!
Reading thru a bit of Jeff7's posts, it looks like he's decided to stop writing checks to TWI? I guess that includes giving free haircuts as well? Anyway, each to his own.
I think for most of us, the train left the station a long time ago, except for maybe Word Wolf? (I heard he's hanging out in Manhattan selling oysters on the half shell, to help out of work gay investment bankers!)
Le Bump
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jen-o
heheheheh...
p-e-a-c-e to you, le bump!
c'est moi, jen-o...
Edited by jen-oLink to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
Hi Bumpy,
It's been a while, I have over 300 posts now and I haven't had the pleasure of reading much from you in quite a while it seems.
You are correct about me not sending any money to TWI anymore, but it's been a long time since I have. I've been involved with a small splinter group since 1989 or so and many, many things that people share about TWI seem very clear to me now that I never could have considered before unless these things hadn't become clear to me in life-shattering detail, real up close and personal like. I like the greasespot in many respects because some things are different here then real life, so to speak.
Here, there is some distance between us and the folks we're talking too. I think for TWI victims this gives them a great chance to step back and review and rethink the conversation that "real life" does not allow.
In real life, the life-sucking ghoul that controls people's lives was real in my face, and I supported his ministry with not just my finances, but my life's direction as well.
So dealing with whether or not TWI deserves financial support in this forum is quite a breather for me in comparison.
But after hearing folks share about broken lives here at the greasespot I'm real sure that my splinter group leader learned how to break people, control them, and use them from the very worst of TWI practices, and all the while train people to keep up a very convincing false front to the casual observer, heck, for years he's been TRAINING his disciples to help him convince ex-wayfers that he is for real. I shudder to think of what will happen to people who get sucked in because what he's capable of is stealing everything a man or woman has and then discarding them like a piece of trash when he's done. If you want Bumpy, just take a good look at my life and then you'll know that for me this isn't fake, it is my life.
So I feel certain in my opinion that there are good people out there, and that people who learned their tricks from TWI (like Chr!s G$$r and his fellow former top TWI leadership thugs IMO) not only don't deserve our money, but that what they deserve will only happen to them by the will of GOD in HIS own time.
Looking at these things is part of what you refer to as "my own" Bumpy, not by my choice, but because it is my life, still mostly broken.....
(edited for grammar)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Hey Jeff, good Swedish name. "Kann du prata Svenska"? Glad to hear you broke the posting barrier and become a GS vet. In about 900 years you might even catch up to Excie!
There's an old Monty Python film, "Life of Brian", have you seen it? If not, you might have a laugh?
I've found there's not too much in the past you can change, so living there 24/7 may not be such a good idea. Some have suggested here that in some cases seeking "professional" help might be the right way to go? You have to decide.
I'm sorry for all the heartache you have experienced in your search for spiritual understanding. We all felt that to various degrees in our TWI/CES cult days.
Hopefully your relationship with people here at GS and elsewhere, will help bring closure one day to the pain, and your time in this life will have greater meaning. :)
I think that's what the Lord would have wanted.
Bump
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
jeff's a good fella' (well NOT that kind)
i think i would love to give my sponsors back their $10 and $20 a month
there was this one guy named eddie, he never did "ANYTHING" after i got him in the class except sponsor me
i'm sorry, eddie, please forgive me
i would give anything to know how you're doin' because you are such a great person. i feel like i used you. the way frucking ministry didn't think too much of you and i was to busy being a corps person to care
sheet
--
dot, what do you think ?
ps. he had an alcohol problem and i don't think i ever really helped him
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jen-o
hi excie,
i never sponsored anybody in the corps...
but during my last year in "twi", round xmas-time, a corps person came to visit our twig...
she was trying to raise money and said she couldn't go back to the corps program unless she had a certain amount of money...
a couple people chipped in to give her money... and i gave her $200. to make up the difference...
i don't remember her name... but i'm really sorry that my actions sent her back into that abusive program...
wherever she is, i apologize for that...
peace,
jen-o
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i love you jen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jen-o
i love you, too, excie...
xo
jen-o
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JeffSjo
I sure do like your posts Bumpy, because they help me deal with real issues so much.
Is "Life of Brian" the movie about the loser, wannabe? I trust that things will become only clearer here.
As far as your advice to seek proffesional help I can only say that this kind of advice in this forum is absolutely unnecessary. It's all too easily taken as a backhanded cheap shot masquerading as kindness. This is one of the nasty and mean tactics that TWI leadership learned in their obnoxious WAY CORPS training. I've seen folks with sociopathic characteristics use it to subtly put people in their place when they believe they should be top dog.
This is the effect on people of this kind of advice from you Bumpy, and I recommend that you stop it. But for today I am content if everyone reads and makes up their own mind if you have bad intentions or not. I'm not going to do it, but I'm certain that a review of your past posts will reveal the certainty of whether or not you mean well. Personally, I don't think so.
As for greater meaning, lets get back on topic.
___________________________________________________________________
Seeing as top TWI learned these control techniques that I'm speaking of I'm even more certain than ever that many, many TWI splinter groups don't deserve your money or support. You see folks, much of their training in the ministry was just learning how to push people around and be the top dog, so to speak.
IT IS WRITTEN, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory."
But what TWI leadership ended up learning was a style of leadership that epitomized strife and vainglory. They became puffed up little turds who were VERY good at putting you down to further their abuse of the body of Christ, oops, big mistake.
But in the mean time many people have had to suffer through the effects of their brutality. Many do and did need proffesional help. I just hope that they get whatever help they need, knowing that I'm no better than any of them.
I've stated what I think the Lord would have wanted, and what I believe he will do. I am ready to dance in the mean time.
cha cha cha.
(edited for spelling)
P.S. Dear Excathedra and Jen-o, Thank you for sharing. :)
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.