4. Do not become so emotionally involved you allow emotion to cloud your judgment. Involved, yes, but never to an extreme. Sympathy is one big counterfeit. Nobody needs it; nobody wants it. Compassion, yes, sympathy, no.
Emotions can be a benefit - they can cloud yes, but they can also clarify and they can energize, drive action. Emotions aren't bad things, although the way our emotions can effect us could be.
The Way's counselling instructions imply that an emotional attachment to something is involvement to an extreme. Not true.
Sympathy - a "counterfeit"....for what? That's like saying happiness is a counterfeit for hunger. Sympathy is feeling for someone else's condition. Nothing wrong with that. If that's all a person has to offer it may not do anything to help the other but what would be better - to feel nothing or feel something? It's common to spiel that line "nobody wants it". But when things are bad, we do want understanding and recognition by others. We don't want others ignoring it or treating our own problems as if they were insignificant.
That kind of attitude does spill over into the Way's counselling description there - involved but not extremely, uninvolved and unemotional and unsympathetic.
Is that "Christian Counselling"? And what's that, anyway? Christ counselled. What did He do, what's described? Compassion is associated with His feeling many times, in fact it's one of the most common and clearest views into His personality we have written about, I think.
Compassion wells up from "inside" us, reflects who we are. If I'm unsympathetic, can I have compassion?
At times my own emotions and compassionate feelings may contradict what I "believe", or think I do. When that happens, it's better to examine what I believe and what I feel and try to understand my reactions, than to deny or ignore them.
Definition of Compassion (TWI literal according to usage):
Compassion - 1) a fake emotion you need to display outwardly so that people think you care; 2) a sign of weakness; 3) something that we will beneficently bestow upon you by not attacking and destroying your lives if you kiss our ring and feet, obey without question, and never talk about how we hurt you.
Godly actions probably result from someone with a compassionate perspective more than from those without compassion.
Rule o' thumb, Rocky, I think that's going to be true.
Compassion - I see it as drawing from our innards, so to speak. Who we are, how we think and believe, the "real" me.
Where the record in Matthew 14 speaks of Jesus feeling compassion for the people that had gathered, He healed their sick. He saw their need and responded out of his concern for their condition.
I think where a lot of Christianity fails is in trying to build and support a system that recognizes an assortment of creeds and beliefs as "right" and views that as success, "we've built a church that's right and that's a glory to God".
To me, the rightness can only exist in a living breathing acting context - in life. The rules and reg's, the "truth" is God's domain. He's defined what and how life is and we can learn, study, live, debate, argue it till we're blue. In the end, how I live is my domain. It's there that compassion lives and flows out from. If there isn't any or if I restrict it, what's that say? Can I be right and not be moved with concern for others, simply turn away and continue to be right?
Even Jesus recognized that there would always be needy people. Can we help everyone all the time? If anyone could have you'd think He'd be the one to have done so.
If Jesus provides an example to me I can see that I can only do what's at hand, what's in front of me, what's within my scope. I may live with a larger vision for the world, the future, others while simply doing what I can when I can and for whom I can.
If I have the right stuff going on inside it stands to reason that I'll be compassionate to others at all times, regardless of what I can or can't do. Recognizing the needs of others and having feelings for them would be normal I think.
it amazes me that a ministry could even allow anyone to think that a short course (like the referenced Christian Counseling class) could even come close to being qualified to counsel people in need.
Probably one of the best things the Way had going for it at any time, IMO, is the simple "compassionate" view of others, and the recognition that others need help sooooo, here's some help. Friendship, understanding, a shoulder or arm to lean on, a ride, a job, and yes, the bible's teachings.
It may sound crazy to some at this point but at one time friends and relationships were the foundation of what it was all about. Pushing that out and restricting it would account for the incestuous le familia that grew over the years.
Counselling is serious business. Largely listening and learning. As in all pursuits some are better suited than others, some who should never go near it.
The Way did come to wanting to have All The Answers based on the appropriate verse of scripture and a good tank of get-up-'n' do-it. Unfortunately if and when you did have serious problems and needs you could get left in the dust if you took to long to get-up 'n' get 'er done.
The empathetic reaching out to help (compassion) shows that we as individuals can be part of the solution.
It's not just telling people Da Verd and demanding they "renew their mind" to it. Kinda like James, "faith without works is dead." Speaking Da Verd but not following through with appropriate action may well be meaningless. Worse than that: hurtful. Because the practical answers that one in need is looking for are not there. (Eg, it may be "correct" telling someone with a sick kid in hospital that they can believe for the child to be healed; but what about practical help to enable the parent to hospital to visit? Offering to drive the parent there; or look after other children while the parent visits; or financial or physical help or food - or food preparation - while the parent is visiting?)
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cman
Thanks sirg, yeah that's a good movie with some good stuff in it.
There are some you tubes on the real Patch Adams in that link and linked to links too.
Hr doesn't look like Robin Williams, but if one can get past what they see with their eyes and see with their heart, a lot can be seen.
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socks
Emotions can be a benefit - they can cloud yes, but they can also clarify and they can energize, drive action. Emotions aren't bad things, although the way our emotions can effect us could be.
The Way's counselling instructions imply that an emotional attachment to something is involvement to an extreme. Not true.
Sympathy - a "counterfeit"....for what? That's like saying happiness is a counterfeit for hunger. Sympathy is feeling for someone else's condition. Nothing wrong with that. If that's all a person has to offer it may not do anything to help the other but what would be better - to feel nothing or feel something? It's common to spiel that line "nobody wants it". But when things are bad, we do want understanding and recognition by others. We don't want others ignoring it or treating our own problems as if they were insignificant.
That kind of attitude does spill over into the Way's counselling description there - involved but not extremely, uninvolved and unemotional and unsympathetic.
Is that "Christian Counselling"? And what's that, anyway? Christ counselled. What did He do, what's described? Compassion is associated with His feeling many times, in fact it's one of the most common and clearest views into His personality we have written about, I think.
Compassion wells up from "inside" us, reflects who we are. If I'm unsympathetic, can I have compassion?
At times my own emotions and compassionate feelings may contradict what I "believe", or think I do. When that happens, it's better to examine what I believe and what I feel and try to understand my reactions, than to deny or ignore them.
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chockfull
Definition of Compassion (TWI literal according to usage):
Compassion - 1) a fake emotion you need to display outwardly so that people think you care; 2) a sign of weakness; 3) something that we will beneficently bestow upon you by not attacking and destroying your lives if you kiss our ring and feet, obey without question, and never talk about how we hurt you.
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socks
Rule o' thumb, Rocky, I think that's going to be true.
Compassion - I see it as drawing from our innards, so to speak. Who we are, how we think and believe, the "real" me.
Where the record in Matthew 14 speaks of Jesus feeling compassion for the people that had gathered, He healed their sick. He saw their need and responded out of his concern for their condition.
I think where a lot of Christianity fails is in trying to build and support a system that recognizes an assortment of creeds and beliefs as "right" and views that as success, "we've built a church that's right and that's a glory to God".
To me, the rightness can only exist in a living breathing acting context - in life. The rules and reg's, the "truth" is God's domain. He's defined what and how life is and we can learn, study, live, debate, argue it till we're blue. In the end, how I live is my domain. It's there that compassion lives and flows out from. If there isn't any or if I restrict it, what's that say? Can I be right and not be moved with concern for others, simply turn away and continue to be right?
Even Jesus recognized that there would always be needy people. Can we help everyone all the time? If anyone could have you'd think He'd be the one to have done so.
If Jesus provides an example to me I can see that I can only do what's at hand, what's in front of me, what's within my scope. I may live with a larger vision for the world, the future, others while simply doing what I can when I can and for whom I can.
If I have the right stuff going on inside it stands to reason that I'll be compassionate to others at all times, regardless of what I can or can't do. Recognizing the needs of others and having feelings for them would be normal I think.
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socks
Probably one of the best things the Way had going for it at any time, IMO, is the simple "compassionate" view of others, and the recognition that others need help sooooo, here's some help. Friendship, understanding, a shoulder or arm to lean on, a ride, a job, and yes, the bible's teachings.
It may sound crazy to some at this point but at one time friends and relationships were the foundation of what it was all about. Pushing that out and restricting it would account for the incestuous le familia that grew over the years.
Counselling is serious business. Largely listening and learning. As in all pursuits some are better suited than others, some who should never go near it.
The Way did come to wanting to have All The Answers based on the appropriate verse of scripture and a good tank of get-up-'n' do-it. Unfortunately if and when you did have serious problems and needs you could get left in the dust if you took to long to get-up 'n' get 'er done.
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Rocky
Socks,
To both of your last two posts, I can only say... YUP, makes sense to me!
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Twinky
Some fine and considered posts here.
The empathetic reaching out to help (compassion) shows that we as individuals can be part of the solution.
It's not just telling people Da Verd and demanding they "renew their mind" to it. Kinda like James, "faith without works is dead." Speaking Da Verd but not following through with appropriate action may well be meaningless. Worse than that: hurtful. Because the practical answers that one in need is looking for are not there. (Eg, it may be "correct" telling someone with a sick kid in hospital that they can believe for the child to be healed; but what about practical help to enable the parent to hospital to visit? Offering to drive the parent there; or look after other children while the parent visits; or financial or physical help or food - or food preparation - while the parent is visiting?)
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