But I have never heard a TWI "definition" of "compassion." Anybody aware of one?
Or even a non-TWI definition?
It strikes me now that there was no definition because, perhaps, compassion had been so seriously overlooked in practice. No need to define what doesn't exist.
Right! Compassion wouldn't fit with the "spiritual anger" we were supposed to have in the 90's. Even love became a rote definition only--nothing genuine to the "love" dished out in twi since the 90's. Love was "Love for God in the renewed mind in the household."
The most common definition I know of for compassion is to have feelings of sympathy, pity, concern for another person. Empathy - understanding the condition of another and having concern for them. Luke 6 has a lot of statements of Jesus that would include compassion for others, I think. Compassion would be the heartfelt concern for another that would cause someone to extend themselves towards that person to help them, offer aid, assistance.
Right! Compassion wouldn't fit with the "spiritual anger" we were supposed to have in the 90's. Even love became a rote definition only--nothing genuine to the "love" dished out in twi since the 90's. Love was "Love for God in the renewed mind in the household."
"Love" took on an entirely different flavor - this would be TWI2 - it was "loving" to "confront" someone and bring their supposed errors to their attention. Not a lot of reproving in a spirit of meekness, just in-your-face hair-streaming-backwards eye-watering yelling.
Those definitions of "grace" and "mercy", they'd be in the foundational class, right? Or did we not get those until, what, the Advanced class? So Wierwille himself could have defined "compassion" at the same time. I'm left thinking he plagiarized those definitions (I have seen them elsewhere) and he never found nor thought up a definition of "compassion" or if he found one, it ran counter to other stuff he was teaching.
Jen-o: point taken about it tying in with the "law of believing" and I think that would be specially true for TWI under LCM. Not sure about under VPW.
Socks: yes, exactly. Empathy, sympathy, compassion...a genuine reaching out to help, not to show off one's knowledge. Compassion also has an element of doing something to help someone in need - a hug, a dab with a handkerchief, a visit, a gift of money, etc, rather than just preaching da Verd at them.
OCW: Yes, individuals did show kindness and compassion. There were some very genuine bighearted people in TWI. I am thankful for them and for their lives. But the corporate machine minced that up and in many cases the compassionate ones as well.
So no TWI definition?
(Hey TWI, if anyone is lurking, ask Rosie what she defines it as. Put it in a soon-arriving SNS.)
Was just thinking about compassion and what it is and isn't.
And it occurred to me that we have TWI definitions for "grace" (God's unmerited divine favor) and "mercy" (God's divine withholding of merited punishment) - have seen similar definitions in the work of Christian writers in non-TWI books (omitting the word "divine").
But I have never heard a TWI "definition" of "compassion." Anybody aware of one?
Or even a non-TWI definition?
It strikes me now that there was no definition because, perhaps, compassion had been so seriously overlooked in practice. No need to define what doesn't exist.
A very interesting reflection Twinky. I left TWI about 22 years ago, but I do remember (vaguely) compassion having been taught, but don't remember who it was that expounded on it.
However, it's most obvious that even though it was a subject of some teachings, it was not given the place of prominence that a study of the concept in the bible would have suggested it should.
An excerpt: " Compassion, literally a feeling with and for others, is a fundamental and distinctive quality of the Biblical conception of God, and to its prominence the world owes more than words can express."
Frankly, had compassion been considered as fundamental, it probably would have displaced the obsession with "The Adversary."
In the class, Christian Counseling, compassion was replaced by confrontation and an insistence that "renewed mind"(to TWI doctrine) is the answer to life's problems.
"If something happens to upset me, for example,; and I start dwelling on it, and I get more and more upset, then I just got myself into a whole lot of trouble. However, if I catch myself; and I say, "Wait a minute! I have got a meeting coming up. I am going to put a smile on my face . I am going to act happy if it kills me!" Do you know what I start feeling like pretty soon? Happy. It is available because I can control that smile. I can control whether I do my ironing, etc., If I make up my mind I am going to do it; and so can the people you will be counseling with."
-------------------------------------------------
And there is much more in the class that deals with our "duty" to confront our brothers and sisters who are "off The Word".
In other words, we were supposed to deny ourself the ability to understand our emotions and the emotions of others.
We were, instead, to self-delude ourselves under the guise of "renewed mind". There's not much room left in there for compassion and sympathetic listening.
Disclaimer: If the person who wrote this class is a member of this board, I apologize for singling this out.
I am guilty myself because I bought into this stuff hook, line and sinker.
In Jesus Christ, in whom God was "manifest in the flesh," compassion was an outstanding feature (Matthew 9:36; 14:14, etc.) and He taught that it ought to be extended, not to friends and neighbors only, but to all without exception, even to enemies (Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 10:30-37).
So closely coupled (in the article) with mercy yet it is very different.
Yet another reason, perhaps, why we were dissuaded from reading the gospels. Then we wouldn't see JC's compassion, but instead we could read in the epistles and read how Paul confronted poor thinking (lovingly) which was then taken to the extreme of confrontation in practically every situation and claimed as "love" or "mercy".
Okay, how about this for a "definition," based on the definitions of grace and mercy:
"God's divine empathy and yearning for the wellbeing of all humankind."
In TWI the kind tenderhearted stuff was reserved for household only. Then the household started to shrink...all those people on LOA until they got their believing togehter etc.
I remember a teaching either on a tape or at the rock. The teacher always viewed disabled people as whole--but it wasn't out of compassion. He thought they were disgusting to look at.
I found a mention of compassion in the Christian Counseling syllabus. Again, I don't know the authorship.
Page 19
4. Do not become so emotionally involved you allow emotion to cloud your judgment. Involved, yes, but never to an extreme. Sympathy is one big counterfeit. Nobody needs it; nobody wants it. Compassion, yes, sympathy, no.
Well, that sounds pretty good but if you aren't supposed to be "unequally yoked" with unbelievers, who else except the believers can you become emotionally involved with?
but the tick tock of the clock does increase the pressure on our hearts to break wide open
but these days...we dont teach our kids about such things anymore...and such lessons dont come naturally to most men
and so we often dont realize all the compassion homework we have to do until the 11th hour of our lives
the sad truth of how so many "uninitiated" grumpy old men find themselves unable...unequipped...and otherwise incapable of such heart-related feats
crippled, really...as if "the devil's disability" is his inability to descend into the fires of hell
...leaving him trapped in a personal quest for bliss...on a crumbling mountain
to the depth and degree we avoid suffering...we will lack compassion
and those who seek to experience only pleasure and happiness and safety...should "repent" before its too late
and by "too late," i mean "too entrenched in positions of power over others...and too old to change on their own...having caused too much hurt by acting without compassion"
...who cant understand the suffering that that causes?
but "disciples" (monks and nuns and saints and such) were drawn to death, disease and suffering
as saw it as the primary route to experience and practice increasing their compassion
at the heart of all spiritual traditions (and effective medicine), was the call to serve the ill, aging, dying and grieving
which included a call to develop a greater sense of compassion as a caregiver...developing one's capacity for greater equanamity in the face of absolute misery, loss and woe
when and where this was developed...it is easily recognizable in every history on earth
...as with when and where it was not
such blood red truths are shared by EVERY developed wisdom tradition on earth
...more reliable than any scripture
...
to add...
not that we are somehow awful or immoral for not living up to such exemplars
but that we are perhaps "meaningfully and usefully humiliated," if you will, in our big bold claims of spiritual supremacy over others
or in our bold claims of being the torch carriers for some historical lineage of spiritual compassion
I remember a teaching either on a tape or at the rock. The teacher always viewed disabled people as whole--but it wasn't out of compassion. He thought they were disgusting to look at.
I think there was often a "trophy mentality" that surrounded disabled folks.
"Geeze! If we could only get Suzie healed of that withered hand, we would have people BEGGING us to take the class."
It had nothing to do with compassion for Suzie and everything to do with selling "the class'.
Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Not that reproof isn't necessary, but compassion comes from the realization that none of us is perfect.
George
Compassion, which is more related to a frame of mind than an action or series of actions, would also preclude the need to always "be right." Godly actions probably result from someone with a compassionate perspective more than from those without compassion.
I found a mention of compassion in the Christian Counseling syllabus. Again, I don't know the authorship.
Page 19
4. Do not become so emotionally involved you allow emotion to cloud your judgment. Involved, yes, but never to an extreme. Sympathy is one big counterfeit. Nobody needs it; nobody wants it. Compassion, yes, sympathy, no.
Well, that sounds pretty good but if you aren't supposed to be "unequally yoked" with unbelievers, who else except the believers can you become emotionally involved with?
Knowing (now) that legitimate counselors (i.e. licensed practitioners) must go through rigorous training, practical experiences and testing, it amazes me that a ministry could even allow anyone to think that a short course (like the referenced Christian Counseling class) could even come close to being qualified to counsel people in need. And that particular amazement is troubling.
Recommended Posts
penguin
Right! Compassion wouldn't fit with the "spiritual anger" we were supposed to have in the 90's. Even love became a rote definition only--nothing genuine to the "love" dished out in twi since the 90's. Love was "Love for God in the renewed mind in the household."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
The most common definition I know of for compassion is to have feelings of sympathy, pity, concern for another person. Empathy - understanding the condition of another and having concern for them. Luke 6 has a lot of statements of Jesus that would include compassion for others, I think. Compassion would be the heartfelt concern for another that would cause someone to extend themselves towards that person to help them, offer aid, assistance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jen-o
i think that the lack of compassion in twi is a natural result of the doctrine of "the law of believing...
acc. to this doctrine, whatever circumstance one finds oneself in is a product of believing...
so there is no need to show compassion to one in need because it is the result of their own "wrong believing"...
instead of showing compassion, people were reproved and chastized...
[this again shows how little twi knew of Jesus]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
I saw it in the OKC branch,but after that not so much.
Reminds me of Dumbo(I've seen a house fly and a horse
fly,a dragon fly,,,but not an elephant fly)
no compassion at a corporate buisness level,robots in retail
selling a class and getting blood money for the fat cat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
brideofjc
Which probably meant, bend over!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
"Love" took on an entirely different flavor - this would be TWI2 - it was "loving" to "confront" someone and bring their supposed errors to their attention. Not a lot of reproving in a spirit of meekness, just in-your-face hair-streaming-backwards eye-watering yelling.
Those definitions of "grace" and "mercy", they'd be in the foundational class, right? Or did we not get those until, what, the Advanced class? So Wierwille himself could have defined "compassion" at the same time. I'm left thinking he plagiarized those definitions (I have seen them elsewhere) and he never found nor thought up a definition of "compassion" or if he found one, it ran counter to other stuff he was teaching.
Jen-o: point taken about it tying in with the "law of believing" and I think that would be specially true for TWI under LCM. Not sure about under VPW.
Socks: yes, exactly. Empathy, sympathy, compassion...a genuine reaching out to help, not to show off one's knowledge. Compassion also has an element of doing something to help someone in need - a hug, a dab with a handkerchief, a visit, a gift of money, etc, rather than just preaching da Verd at them.
OCW: Yes, individuals did show kindness and compassion. There were some very genuine bighearted people in TWI. I am thankful for them and for their lives. But the corporate machine minced that up and in many cases the compassionate ones as well.
So no TWI definition?
(Hey TWI, if anyone is lurking, ask Rosie what she defines it as. Put it in a soon-arriving SNS.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Does anyone remember who wrote/taught Christian Counseling?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I don't think I've posted it before, but I've said it aloud.
When it comes to vpw and "compassion", I think he used a definition I heard once on Benny Hill,
said to the little bald guy (Jack Wright):
"...and I know what your definition is of 'compassion'-
'a little fellow-feeling'."
========
I think vpw was capable of generosity and interest if you were one of his favourites.
HCW has MANY fond memories of vpw, including some nice things vpw did.
I question that being actual "compassion."
I say our measure of compassion can be measured more by what we do for those from whom
we can expect no favours in return.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
A very interesting reflection Twinky. I left TWI about 22 years ago, but I do remember (vaguely) compassion having been taught, but don't remember who it was that expounded on it.
However, it's most obvious that even though it was a subject of some teachings, it was not given the place of prominence that a study of the concept in the bible would have suggested it should.
You might find this link helpful (though it clearly is NOT a reference to anything in TWI): International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: compassion
An excerpt: " Compassion, literally a feeling with and for others, is a fundamental and distinctive quality of the Biblical conception of God, and to its prominence the world owes more than words can express."
Frankly, had compassion been considered as fundamental, it probably would have displaced the obsession with "The Adversary."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
In the class, Christian Counseling, compassion was replaced by confrontation and an insistence that "renewed mind"(to TWI doctrine) is the answer to life's problems.
Here is an excerpt:
----------------------------------------------------
"If something happens to upset me, for example,; and I start dwelling on it, and I get more and more upset, then I just got myself into a whole lot of trouble. However, if I catch myself; and I say, "Wait a minute! I have got a meeting coming up. I am going to put a smile on my face . I am going to act happy if it kills me!" Do you know what I start feeling like pretty soon? Happy. It is available because I can control that smile. I can control whether I do my ironing, etc., If I make up my mind I am going to do it; and so can the people you will be counseling with."
-------------------------------------------------
And there is much more in the class that deals with our "duty" to confront our brothers and sisters who are "off The Word".
In other words, we were supposed to deny ourself the ability to understand our emotions and the emotions of others.
We were, instead, to self-delude ourselves under the guise of "renewed mind". There's not much room left in there for compassion and sympathetic listening.
Disclaimer: If the person who wrote this class is a member of this board, I apologize for singling this out.
I am guilty myself because I bought into this stuff hook, line and sinker.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
you can be sure
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Rocky, nice article. I like this point:
So closely coupled (in the article) with mercy yet it is very different.
Yet another reason, perhaps, why we were dissuaded from reading the gospels. Then we wouldn't see JC's compassion, but instead we could read in the epistles and read how Paul confronted poor thinking (lovingly) which was then taken to the extreme of confrontation in practically every situation and claimed as "love" or "mercy".
Okay, how about this for a "definition," based on the definitions of grace and mercy:
"God's divine empathy and yearning for the wellbeing of all humankind."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
I like it!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
not only did vpw throw away over 2000 years of christian writings on compassion
but ignored a thousand times as many writings on compassion from the rest of the world
...and taught us to do the same
keeping us worlds apart from actually practicing actual compassion
actually practicing leaning into the pain and the unknown and suffering of life
as a way of cracking open our hardened hearts
is pretty much the opposite of what we have been taught by most modern mainstream religions and sciences
but perennial wisdom says that the actual breath and the actual heart is perhaps the most direct mode of practicing compassion
so close...yet so far away
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
It's hard to be narcissistic when compassion is a major part of one's life.
It's also hard to be compassionate when one is narcissistic.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
My definition for compassion is Eph. 4:32:
Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Not that reproof isn't necessary, but compassion comes from the realization that none of us is perfect.
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
George, maybe it just all comes with age?
Bump
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
In TWI the kind tenderhearted stuff was reserved for household only. Then the household started to shrink...all those people on LOA until they got their believing togehter etc.
I remember a teaching either on a tape or at the rock. The teacher always viewed disabled people as whole--but it wasn't out of compassion. He thought they were disgusting to look at.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I found a mention of compassion in the Christian Counseling syllabus. Again, I don't know the authorship.
Page 19
4. Do not become so emotionally involved you allow emotion to cloud your judgment. Involved, yes, but never to an extreme. Sympathy is one big counterfeit. Nobody needs it; nobody wants it. Compassion, yes, sympathy, no.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that sounds pretty good but if you aren't supposed to be "unequally yoked" with unbelievers, who else except the believers can you become emotionally involved with?
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
or not...which is worse
but the tick tock of the clock does increase the pressure on our hearts to break wide open
but these days...we dont teach our kids about such things anymore...and such lessons dont come naturally to most men
and so we often dont realize all the compassion homework we have to do until the 11th hour of our lives
the sad truth of how so many "uninitiated" grumpy old men find themselves unable...unequipped...and otherwise incapable of such heart-related feats
crippled, really...as if "the devil's disability" is his inability to descend into the fires of hell
...leaving him trapped in a personal quest for bliss...on a crumbling mountain
to the depth and degree we avoid suffering...we will lack compassion
and those who seek to experience only pleasure and happiness and safety...should "repent" before its too late
and by "too late," i mean "too entrenched in positions of power over others...and too old to change on their own...having caused too much hurt by acting without compassion"
...who cant understand the suffering that that causes?
but "disciples" (monks and nuns and saints and such) were drawn to death, disease and suffering
as saw it as the primary route to experience and practice increasing their compassion
at the heart of all spiritual traditions (and effective medicine), was the call to serve the ill, aging, dying and grieving
which included a call to develop a greater sense of compassion as a caregiver...developing one's capacity for greater equanamity in the face of absolute misery, loss and woe
when and where this was developed...it is easily recognizable in every history on earth
...as with when and where it was not
such blood red truths are shared by EVERY developed wisdom tradition on earth
...more reliable than any scripture
...
to add...
not that we are somehow awful or immoral for not living up to such exemplars
but that we are perhaps "meaningfully and usefully humiliated," if you will, in our big bold claims of spiritual supremacy over others
or in our bold claims of being the torch carriers for some historical lineage of spiritual compassion
some things are hard to fake
once we know what to look for
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I think there was often a "trophy mentality" that surrounded disabled folks.
"Geeze! If we could only get Suzie healed of that withered hand, we would have people BEGGING us to take the class."
It had nothing to do with compassion for Suzie and everything to do with selling "the class'.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
indeed
the true arts of compassion can open the way to kinds of healing that happen when there is no cure
what we have today in so many fields...so often we are "fixers run amok"
here is a profound article on the depth of compassion barely seen in TWI
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
cman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Compassion, which is more related to a frame of mind than an action or series of actions, would also preclude the need to always "be right." Godly actions probably result from someone with a compassionate perspective more than from those without compassion.
Knowing (now) that legitimate counselors (i.e. licensed practitioners) must go through rigorous training, practical experiences and testing, it amazes me that a ministry could even allow anyone to think that a short course (like the referenced Christian Counseling class) could even come close to being qualified to counsel people in need. And that particular amazement is troubling.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.