Caveman, Rosie Fox Rivenbark has been President since September of 2000(?). Rome city was sold to someone developing an athletic facility which was losing money, and he was selling it to anyone interested(maybe TAPS/The American Parapyschological Society aka Ghost Hunters on Scifi channel might want to investigate). They merged Martindale's class on The Way of Abundance and Power with PFAL. They occasionaly spy here on GSC as lurkers and trolls. Outside of that, no else knows nor cares unless 60 minutes, Dateline, Primetime, 20/20, or some news organization investigates. John Juddes, a Missouri Synod Lutheran Pastor might know more info. Maybe we need Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or someone at Fox News Network to do some digging.
Lurkers are folks who read the site but never sign up or log in, and don't post, so you don't know they are around. Most lurkers are harmless.
Trolls are folks who are just looking for trouble. They sign up on forums and post controversial things to get everyone stirred up. They will usually hang around a short time and then just disappear. Sometimes they come back after a few months just to stir things up again.
I've got to go now, but it's allways nice to know exactly what people are talking about.
JEFF
P.S.
IMO there are some long-term trolls around here too. But then they would quickly retort that my feelings have no basis in truth and that I'm the real troll. SIGH
I guess I haven't been here since 2003. I'd heard that Rosilin somebody was the prez, but the name was not Rivenbark. I wondered it it might be her, though with a new married name?
The story that I'd heard about lcm and Gunnison was that it belonged to the board of trustees and not to twi itself, and that lcm being the head of the board somehow gaines ownership of the property.
I have also heard that homosexuality has become the new original sin. I was bewildered on how that worked when there were only one man and one woman in existance at the time?
I guess I haven't been here since 2003. I'd heard that Rosilin somebody was the prez, but the name was not Rivenbark. I wondered it it might be her, though with a new married name?
Nope, she's not married. The name was, and still is, Rosalie Rivenbark, president since the out-booting of the notorious crotch-monger Martindale
I have also heard that homosexuality has become the new original sin. I was bewildered on how that worked when there were only one man and one woman in existance at the time?
Apparently the ol' debbil formed hiss-self into a female form and seduced Eve. Basis for this is a famous painting, in the absence of real scriptural evidence.
Are you guys serious about this homosexuality/original sin thing?
It'd be more inmpressive in terms of what TWI has learned if they thought it was adultery IMO.
It'd be just as stupid as saying it was homosexuality, but at least then they would be admitting that adultery was wrong.
That's the bottom line of the doctrine in Crotch-monger's class. Don't know if they have continued that part of the teaching after dumping it's perpetrator, but wouldn't be suprised.
Dead on serious.
It'd be more inmpressive in terms of what TWI has learned if they thought it was adultery IMO.
It'd be just as stupid as saying it was homosexuality, but at least then they would be admitting that adultery was wrong.
The story that I'd heard about lcm and Gunnison was that it belonged to the board of trustees and not to twi itself, and that lcm being the head of the board somehow gaines ownership of the property.
Gunnison has always been a Not For Profit Corporation, legally separate from TWI.
As a NFP Corporation it belongs to no one. TWI Inc has never "owned" Gunnison Inc.
Gunnison Inc. has its own charter, by laws and Board of Directors. However the Board of
Directors at times have been the same on both Corporations.
It is legally impossible for a board member to gain ownnership of a Not for Profit Corporation
unless they purchase it at market value. For Gunnison that would be about 15 million or so.
Craig was removed from the board of Gunnison when he was removed from the board TWI .
He does not now , nor has he ever owned Gunison. Who ever suggested that was mistaken.
Craig was removed from the board of Gunnison when he was removed from the board TWI .
But when was that exactly? I'm thinking the big kerfuffle was because his name remained on the papers long after he was booted from the ranks of twi...
dmiller, this may be a case of "Paul's Thorn in the Flesh", revisited.
In PFAL the teaching went that ministers often taught the thorn in the flesh "buffeting" Paul was whatever ailment or shortcoming the minister teaching had...
It's food for thought, that in both their cases these guys taught it as sexual in nature. Dunno. I'm just saying...it's innerestin'.
More Thought Snacks - The idea that Adam and Eve "introduced" sin into the world that has since been inherited through the bloodline of mankind is almost a "duh-huh" idea - Adam and Eve are presented as the first two human beings. If they were the first two, there were only two that could be the first to do anything, including sin. And the capacity to sin by choice was within their makeup and well within the realm of possiblity. There's a big ho'down in PFAL about "perfect" blood being key, but what's perfect in blood? Blood is blood. If imperfection was possible, it was as likely that it would occur as not occur - choice. 50/50 in nature, choose this or choose that. A human being would be perfect as made, until they weren't - and the weren't would occur as soon as they relied on their human capacity to choose incorrectly.
I'm not denigrating "obedience" or minimizing "disobedience", rather looking at it as it seems to have been and in fact is even now, today. If Jesus Christ was born with "perfect" blood, the race was on, and as told He won. Imperfection and the results didn't occur in His life, and that presents us with the new paradigm for a relationship with God - perfection, delivered to an imperfect vessel, container. We're no different than Adam and Eve, but we do have the option to choose, all our lives.
Anyhoo - dunno what TWI is into these days, nothing to contribute there, but if they still teach that stuff about "Original Sin" being sexual...look out...I mean, I'm just sayin'....
The money would belong to the non-profit corporation. The corporation would have to either use the money to further the defined mission of the corporation or give the money to a like non-profit corporation. At least that's what I found out the last time I dug around.
It's ironic (well --- to me at least), that the Original Sin has to do with sex.
That's a subject that has permeated the minds of *them in power* at hdqtrs over the decades.
Guess they are trying to make excuses? Do a *cover-up*??
Exonerate themselves? *Biblically* explain their misdeeds?? Could be.
I sat in on a session of pfal where docvic taught that MASTURBATION was the original sin.
He admitted (in the class) that he HAD NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for it,
BUT --- he had a strong *feeling*. Take a hike doc.
Take a long hike off a short plank, out in the open ocean!!
Guess he was guilty, and needed to assuage his conscience somehow.
Craig teaches homosexuality as the original sin.
Donna (by all accounts) is a Dyke. Perhaps he was lashing out, eh??
I don't know what the *original sin* was, and neither does anyone else.
Docvic and lcm seemed to know though, even though they differed on it
And they made a buncha bucks teaching their THOUGHTS on the subject.
Adultery???? HA! Can you say *minimalize* the issue at hand??
Not so fast, D....there are plenty of Jewish writings where this is surmised as well. Honestly, what the heck else was there? Not like there were gambling casinos, saloons, opium dens etc. This is why it is the natural choice to surmise that sex in some form was the culprit. ME? I've pondered on it myself as well. When I first heard vp talk about it...CFS?...I just naturally accepted it....but after I left, I went through a period of years, I'm sure everyone else did too, where I literally rejected just about everything that I had received....burning the collaterals....shredding other things...depending on the mood of the moment But then at some point I began to muse again on the topic, having new information from seminary et al and THIS TIME asking the LORD to help me ponder these things. Not that it is a life and death topic, at least not now, it was for them.... :unsure:
In the laws of Moses, it is unlawful to commit
1. adultery
2. homosexuality
3. lesbianism
4. incest
5. spilling your seed on the ground
What I have come to understand is this out of all of the ponderings and choices that I mused upon:
1. Adultery? With who? Nope!
2. Homosexuality? again, with who? Fallen angels? There LIES a possibility.
3. Lesbianism? again, with who?
4. Not yet. No one else around.
5. This is the one that made the most sense to me. I have come to understand through the process of how iniquities work, with it being passed down to the 3rd and 4th generations that one of the things that Cain is charged with is being the first murderer. You just don't up and murder, folks. There has to be a DRIVE behind it. With that in mind....this must mean then that Cain inherited the iniquity of murder from his parents. So....since obviously males carry the seed....what I think has a very good possibility of happening? I think the devil TEMPTED Eve with basically performing fellatio on Adam. What are the components....Don't EAT from the TREE in the middle of the garden (pubic hair being the forest). devil tells her that IT WAS PLEASANT TO THE EYES, it is GOOD FOR FOOD....
Now with that in mind....the seminal fluid is jam packed with SEED....i.e. human beings in seed form....thus, murdering them. How? Because they didn't come together as the LORD GOD had prescribed for them to come together...hence, even though all of the seed obviously wouldn't have culminated in a pregnancy....there would still be no sin...because they would have been in obedience to the LORD.
You are free to disagree, but this is the best that I have ever came up with. Because, folks, there just wasn't any apples, except maybe the two below the tree.
The money would belong to the non-profit corporation. The corporation would have to either use the money to further the defined mission of the corporation or give the money to a like non-profit corporation. At least that's what I found out the last time I dug around.
If an NFP sells anything that it owns, the monies go back to the NFP. It is illegal for any BOD to profit from an NFP. When the NFP terminates, ALL OF THE MONIES, ASSETS, etc. are GIVEN to other 501( c)(3) corporations.
You are free to disagree, but this is the best that I have ever came up with. Because, folks, there just wasn't any apples, except maybe the two below the tree.
Just my thoughts....at 4:59 a.m.
I am unable to accept this as THE Answer, and not just one possibility,
because it fails to answer ALL questions on the subject.
Specifically, it offers no explanation for Genesis 3:22-24,
and the Tree of Life, and living forever.
If the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is one body part or sex act, then by the same reasoning,
the Tree of Life would have to be another.
If so, moving both people who committed the FIRST sex act/ interacted with the body part
would have done nothing to prevent
"eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil"
(under your answer, it would have done nothing to prevent it)
and they're moved to prevent eating from the Tree of Life,
and the mover (God) is at least as smart as I am,
then moving them makes no sense,
even if I don't know EXACTLY what the ToL is meant to refer to.
It can't be another PERSON, since there WAS no other person.
(You and I agree on this.)
Sex act with an angel would enable them to live forever?
Sorry, I can write it down, but it just sounds silly.
Therefore, I await an INTERNALLY-CONSISTENT answer to all questions.
No matter how you slice it, I classify the sin as "rebellion", and think "High Treason" is not
incorrect no matter WHO said it-or relayed it.
I can deal with "I don't know the SPECIFIC sin" since I don't NEED to know it.
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rhino
you sound like me about two and a half years ago.
They exist but are greatly diminished, phs 600 active? Of coe there are many offshoots ... ome tve come and ge ...
... lcm got booted after a lawsuit was settled against him, and he reportedly works the aisles at a Home Depot. ...
twi still has gunnison but sold emporia ... I think they sold Rome City too, but it is back up for sale? I'm not even sure on that one.
You'll have to just read some of the forums to catch up ...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Caveman, Rosie Fox Rivenbark has been President since September of 2000(?). Rome city was sold to someone developing an athletic facility which was losing money, and he was selling it to anyone interested(maybe TAPS/The American Parapyschological Society aka Ghost Hunters on Scifi channel might want to investigate). They merged Martindale's class on The Way of Abundance and Power with PFAL. They occasionaly spy here on GSC as lurkers and trolls. Outside of that, no else knows nor cares unless 60 minutes, Dateline, Primetime, 20/20, or some news organization investigates. John Juddes, a Missouri Synod Lutheran Pastor might know more info. Maybe we need Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or someone at Fox News Network to do some digging.
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JeffSjo
Thomas,
Would you be willing to explain the "lurkers and trolls" thing? I'm just not computer literate enough to know what you're talking about.
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TheHighWay
Lurkers are folks who read the site but never sign up or log in, and don't post, so you don't know they are around. Most lurkers are harmless.
Trolls are folks who are just looking for trouble. They sign up on forums and post controversial things to get everyone stirred up. They will usually hang around a short time and then just disappear. Sometimes they come back after a few months just to stir things up again.
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JeffSjo
Thank you very much TheHighWay,
I've got to go now, but it's allways nice to know exactly what people are talking about.
JEFF
P.S.
IMO there are some long-term trolls around here too. But then they would quickly retort that my feelings have no basis in truth and that I'm the real troll. SIGH
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Caveman
I guess I haven't been here since 2003. I'd heard that Rosilin somebody was the prez, but the name was not Rivenbark. I wondered it it might be her, though with a new married name?
The story that I'd heard about lcm and Gunnison was that it belonged to the board of trustees and not to twi itself, and that lcm being the head of the board somehow gaines ownership of the property.
I have also heard that homosexuality has become the new original sin. I was bewildered on how that worked when there were only one man and one woman in existance at the time?
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Catcup
Nope, she's not married. The name was, and still is, Rosalie Rivenbark, president since the out-booting of the notorious crotch-monger Martindale
Apparently the ol' debbil formed hiss-self into a female form and seduced Eve. Basis for this is a famous painting, in the absence of real scriptural evidence.
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JeffSjo
Are you guys serious about this homosexuality/original sin thing?
It'd be more inmpressive in terms of what TWI has learned if they thought it was adultery IMO.
It'd be just as stupid as saying it was homosexuality, but at least then they would be admitting that adultery was wrong.
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Catcup
That's the bottom line of the doctrine in Crotch-monger's class. Don't know if they have continued that part of the teaching after dumping it's perpetrator, but wouldn't be suprised.
Dead on serious.
TWI admit adultery is wrong?
When pigs fly.
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JeffSjo
Another poster on another thread said that Rosalie tried to keep this poster from leaving TWI by pointing out that 80% of what they did was accurate.
With such a boneheaded doctrine as the one that this thread is about being there I'm certain now that 80% has to be a lie.
IMO having 50% correct doctrine would only happen in that athmosphere by shear accident.
(edited for spelling)
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Caveman
Boy, have they ever gone down hill. We were always 100% correct.
I have since had a problem with first thought revelation. I'd wondered why my first thought was always "Kill them all!"
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JeffSjo
Only one man always had 100%
The rest of us just need to do the best that we can and keep learning.
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Goey
Gunnison has always been a Not For Profit Corporation, legally separate from TWI.
As a NFP Corporation it belongs to no one. TWI Inc has never "owned" Gunnison Inc.
Gunnison Inc. has its own charter, by laws and Board of Directors. However the Board of
Directors at times have been the same on both Corporations.
It is legally impossible for a board member to gain ownnership of a Not for Profit Corporation
unless they purchase it at market value. For Gunnison that would be about 15 million or so.
Craig was removed from the board of Gunnison when he was removed from the board TWI .
He does not now , nor has he ever owned Gunison. Who ever suggested that was mistaken.
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rhino
Where dos the money go when they sell it?
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TheHighWay
But when was that exactly? I'm thinking the big kerfuffle was because his name remained on the papers long after he was booted from the ranks of twi...
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Caveman
Good question
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dmiller
It's ironic (well --- to me at least), that the Original Sin has to do with sex.
That's a subject that has permeated the minds of *them in power* at hdqtrs over the decades.
Guess they are trying to make excuses? Do a *cover-up*??
Exonerate themselves? *Biblically* explain their misdeeds?? Could be.
I sat in on a session of pfal where docvic taught that MASTURBATION was the original sin.
He admitted (in the class) that he HAD NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for it,
BUT --- he had a strong *feeling*. Take a hike doc.
Take a long hike off a short plank, out in the open ocean!!
Guess he was guilty, and needed to assuage his conscience somehow.
Craig teaches homosexuality as the original sin.
Donna (by all accounts) is a Dyke. Perhaps he was lashing out, eh??
I don't know what the *original sin* was, and neither does anyone else.
Docvic and lcm seemed to know though, even though they differed on it
And they made a buncha bucks teaching their THOUGHTS on the subject.
Adultery???? HA! Can you say *minimalize* the issue at hand??
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socks
dmiller, this may be a case of "Paul's Thorn in the Flesh", revisited.
In PFAL the teaching went that ministers often taught the thorn in the flesh "buffeting" Paul was whatever ailment or shortcoming the minister teaching had...
It's food for thought, that in both their cases these guys taught it as sexual in nature. Dunno. I'm just saying...it's innerestin'.
More Thought Snacks - The idea that Adam and Eve "introduced" sin into the world that has since been inherited through the bloodline of mankind is almost a "duh-huh" idea - Adam and Eve are presented as the first two human beings. If they were the first two, there were only two that could be the first to do anything, including sin. And the capacity to sin by choice was within their makeup and well within the realm of possiblity. There's a big ho'down in PFAL about "perfect" blood being key, but what's perfect in blood? Blood is blood. If imperfection was possible, it was as likely that it would occur as not occur - choice. 50/50 in nature, choose this or choose that. A human being would be perfect as made, until they weren't - and the weren't would occur as soon as they relied on their human capacity to choose incorrectly.
I'm not denigrating "obedience" or minimizing "disobedience", rather looking at it as it seems to have been and in fact is even now, today. If Jesus Christ was born with "perfect" blood, the race was on, and as told He won. Imperfection and the results didn't occur in His life, and that presents us with the new paradigm for a relationship with God - perfection, delivered to an imperfect vessel, container. We're no different than Adam and Eve, but we do have the option to choose, all our lives.
Anyhoo - dunno what TWI is into these days, nothing to contribute there, but if they still teach that stuff about "Original Sin" being sexual...look out...I mean, I'm just sayin'....
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Jim
The money would belong to the non-profit corporation. The corporation would have to either use the money to further the defined mission of the corporation or give the money to a like non-profit corporation. At least that's what I found out the last time I dug around.
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cheranne
that just gave me a headache reading all that!!!! what a mess
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WordWolf
Totally serious.
One painting.
lcm went from there to "the devil shaped himself into a woman, and had sex with Eve,
then they had a threesome with Adam.
To do this, lcm had to redefine a lot of words in Genesis 3, like a word for "look" , and redefine another word
to "fountain", then redefine it from THERE....
By the time he was done, it made NO SENSE.
So, the class is sitting there, thinking "that made no sense."
lcm's reply-which is emblematic of his approach?
"You don't see it? Too bad-I do."
And, of course, lcm saw it, twi teaches it.
When people asked about it,
they were told some twi people were looking into it.
When they later ASKED those people, they said they didn't bother-
the board signed off on it, that was good enough.
Some later live teachings include disclaimers of different types at this section.
I SWEAR I'm not making this up.
There's threads in the GSC.
Let me know if you need help finding them.
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brideofjc
Not so fast, D....there are plenty of Jewish writings where this is surmised as well. Honestly, what the heck else was there? Not like there were gambling casinos, saloons, opium dens etc. This is why it is the natural choice to surmise that sex in some form was the culprit. ME? I've pondered on it myself as well. When I first heard vp talk about it...CFS?...I just naturally accepted it....but after I left, I went through a period of years, I'm sure everyone else did too, where I literally rejected just about everything that I had received....burning the collaterals....shredding other things...depending on the mood of the moment
But then at some point I began to muse again on the topic, having new information from seminary et al and THIS TIME asking the LORD to help me ponder these things. Not that it is a life and death topic, at least not now, it was for them.... :unsure:
In the laws of Moses, it is unlawful to commit
1. adultery
2. homosexuality
3. lesbianism
4. incest
5. spilling your seed on the ground
What I have come to understand is this out of all of the ponderings and choices that I mused upon:
1. Adultery? With who? Nope!
2. Homosexuality? again, with who? Fallen angels? There LIES a possibility.
3. Lesbianism? again, with who?
4. Not yet. No one else around.
5. This is the one that made the most sense to me. I have come to understand through the process of how iniquities work, with it being passed down to the 3rd and 4th generations that one of the things that Cain is charged with is being the first murderer. You just don't up and murder, folks. There has to be a DRIVE behind it. With that in mind....this must mean then that Cain inherited the iniquity of murder from his parents. So....since obviously males carry the seed....what I think has a very good possibility of happening? I think the devil TEMPTED Eve with basically performing fellatio on Adam. What are the components....Don't EAT from the TREE in the middle of the garden (pubic hair being the forest). devil tells her that IT WAS PLEASANT TO THE EYES, it is GOOD FOR FOOD....
Now with that in mind....the seminal fluid is jam packed with SEED....i.e. human beings in seed form....thus, murdering them. How? Because they didn't come together as the LORD GOD had prescribed for them to come together...hence, even though all of the seed obviously wouldn't have culminated in a pregnancy....there would still be no sin...because they would have been in obedience to the LORD.
You are free to disagree, but this is the best that I have ever came up with. Because, folks, there just wasn't any apples, except maybe the two below the tree.
Just my thoughts....at 4:59 a.m.
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brideofjc
If an NFP sells anything that it owns, the monies go back to the NFP. It is illegal for any BOD to profit from an NFP. When the NFP terminates, ALL OF THE MONIES, ASSETS, etc. are GIVEN to other 501( c)(3) corporations.
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WordWolf
I am unable to accept this as THE Answer, and not just one possibility,
because it fails to answer ALL questions on the subject.
Specifically, it offers no explanation for Genesis 3:22-24,
and the Tree of Life, and living forever.
If the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is one body part or sex act, then by the same reasoning,
the Tree of Life would have to be another.
If so, moving both people who committed the FIRST sex act/ interacted with the body part
would have done nothing to prevent
"eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil"
(under your answer, it would have done nothing to prevent it)
and they're moved to prevent eating from the Tree of Life,
and the mover (God) is at least as smart as I am,
then moving them makes no sense,
even if I don't know EXACTLY what the ToL is meant to refer to.
It can't be another PERSON, since there WAS no other person.
(You and I agree on this.)
Sex act with an angel would enable them to live forever?
Sorry, I can write it down, but it just sounds silly.
Therefore, I await an INTERNALLY-CONSISTENT answer to all questions.
No matter how you slice it, I classify the sin as "rebellion", and think "High Treason" is not
incorrect no matter WHO said it-or relayed it.
I can deal with "I don't know the SPECIFIC sin" since I don't NEED to know it.
And since I don't actually know it.
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