We were taught early on that "happiness" was a shallow natural man emotion and we were to seek, instead, after "joy".
The problem is, TWI indirectly defined "joy" as an emotion you derived from doing things that were beneficial to the advancement of "the ministry". Sure, there were tapes and way ragazine articles and teachings about joy in the Bible, but it was understood you couldn't have joy if you were out of fellowship and you couldn't be in fellowship if you left the safety of the household.
So, in essence, it was supposed to be "normal" to not experience happiness.
What a twisted mess of wacky logic the whole thing was.
What a twisted mess of wacky logic the whole thing was.
Waysider
I have to agree that it was a twisted mess of wacky logic. I forgot about all the "joy" stuff. I remember that I was always supposed to be blessed for doing things that normally I would hate to do. Like cleaning under the stove to get rid of that one crumb that might have a devil spirit attached to it. While writing this it seems so ridiculously funny now. Funny but sick!
When I was in Fellow Laborers, I happened to find myself on a work detail assigned to clean the limb BRC one day.
We had visitors from Int. HQ that day.----(Side note: VPW never once visited our program in the whole three years I was there.)
One of the visitors asked me how I felt about mopping the floor.
I responded by telling him that, although I didn't enjoy mopping floors, it gave me a sense of satisfaction to know that people would be "blessed" by my efforts. He shook his head in a display of disapproval and chewed me out for not renewing my mind to enjoy it.
He said some day, maybe I would "get it" and then turned and walked away.
Good Lord Lisa, you had a different experience than I in TWI. I'm so sorry. :( BUT, it really sounds like the typical garbage that was around. The group think tank in action. AND I know what you mean about knowing what you SHOULD have felt. I actully DID feel the anger and frustration, but it was, like you said, pooh poohed away by people who were more "spiritual" than I. Hell, it still goes on in "christian" churches and wayfer offshoots.
I was really happy when I first started going to fellowship and learning about God and the truth of the bible. I was relieved that I wasn't going to hell, I never heard of being saved by grace and not by works, though it's a popular teaching now, I think the Way had really taught what people just were not teaching...anywhere...
I felt I was a part of a family, something I needed, but I soon found out that I really was only part of the group if I did everything that they did, taking the classes etc. Truly, do you think anyone would have been welcomed back time after time if they weren't going to take their 200 dollar class? (by 1979 standards 200 dollars was a lot of money) Then after the damned 200 dollar class came the 100 dollar "intermediate" class that I faked my way through. Finally I thought, damn, I am 17 years old and I am trying to be responsible with my money, and I can take classes from here till the cows come home and it's never going to satisfy these people.
I still think I have more commen sense than many ex-wayfers that are actively involved in the Way fellowship offshoots. I may not be as intelligent as some, but I have a hell of a lot more commen sense. And I don't try to gloss things over when it comes to the glaring mistakes made. I really hate that. Who do they think they're talking to? The same stupid 17 year old I was years ago?
Looking back, I still think the people were young, enthusiastic, sincere, but that damn PFAL and the classes really ruined everything. I still think the people were for the most part, great. It's the Way that got in the way, so to speak, and as far as I can see from the small fellowships and offshoots, it's still that same damn tired old song and dance 30 years later.
I'm not sure how to define happiness. I was a lot of things during the period of time when I thought involvement in the way was doing me good, but I don't recall many times when I wasn't walking on eggshells lest I incur the wrath of some leader. I doubt that a state of contentment or 'happiness' ever existed for me.
The condition I recall most about my life during my cult daze (It HAS been almost 20 years ago now) was that of putting my life on "hold". There was always one more class, one more program, one more principle that needed to be mastered before we could start really living the "Abundant Life" that we'd all been promised. So, in retrospect, I see life in the cult that was/is The Way International as an interminable stint of sitting in the dentist's waiting room, forever biding time until that vague super-duper existence that we heard about finally arrived.
So my memories of WayWorld are primarily of simple boredom, and the ever-present feelings of inadequacy. Those were easy enough to overcome once I finally left. I'm so sorry for the real ugliness you had to endure...
As an adult, there were obviously moments of happiness, but I wasn't a happy person, happy with my life, whether I realized it or not. I realize it now. There was a lot of suppressing of questions and emotions and trying to hide part of my life from people that had their noses way to far in my business. There was plenty of things I missed out on as a young adult because I had fellowship the next day and I just couldn't miss that without saying something to someone or I hadn't told leaders I was leaving the state (easy to do in the northeast).
I think there are studies that have shown that each of us has our own degree of happiness that is normal. There are spikes of happiness and dips of sadness but on a whole we typically have a "happiness equilibrium." I think for many of us even that equilibrium was out of whack in TWI and that is part of what makes it unhealthy. One part.
When I lived in Montana I witnessed to a guy and then I went out on a date with him. He kidnapped me for 3 days and raped me. It was in the middle of winter and he had taken away my shoes and coat. When I finally convinced him to take me back to my Way home, the leaders said I wasn't believing enough to get away. It was completely my fault! I had to suck it up! I had no opportunity to express any feelings from this incident.
I really hope you called the Police about that rape in Montana. Its against the law and he might be raping other women if you dont report him. In many states there is no statue of limitations on reporting rape, but esp if there is some DNA evidence, its always best to go to an emergency room after a rape and have them do a rape kit testing on you and get interrviewded by the Police rape squad. PLZ do this if you are ever raped
And to answer your question...NO I was not happy in the Way I always felt controlled and victimized, verbally and psychologically abused, and financially exploited
Waysider keeps saying that it's a twisted wacky logic. I put soooo much trust in the Way leaders and what they had to say. There was many times that I was probably just numb. I didn't feel anything at all. There's a theory by a Sociologist who studied flight attendants and what she saw with them was that they had to put on the "smile" all the time for the passengers and eventually the attendants would become numb to any emotions because the passenger is always right - just smile and agree. This is most likely how I felt - I had to put on the "smile" and always say I was blessed when in reality I was probably numb.
I am so sorry that a mean-spirited person had the unmitigated gaul to say that to you. What a horrific example of heartless bull crap that Jesus would have had no part of... (The opposite of What would Jesus do....)
The Lord, and we if we (TWI) had actually represented him, should have held you close and let you share, then, gotten you some help -- someone with whom you could unload the horror of this event and heal.
I am so sorry you were forced to do the things he did to you, then forced to accept BLAME for it, all in the loving package of the love of God in the family of God ---- don't cha know...
Heck, an atheist drunk would have shown more love than what you got. I am so sorry for the pain and the loneliness of having to bury that event as if it were a secret for which you needed to bear the shame. Your story makes me sick, sick that people treated each other like this in the name of God.
Honey, we got a few nuts that still hang around here, they may get on here and minimize what happened and defend TWI -- please do not stuff this down into your core, accept any more pain, or disappear... We know they are nuts...
You just take time to heal and ignore any idiots who may post in support of that horrible ministry.
Yes, I was happy at times BEFORE I found out what I know now and the evil I experienced... Back when God was working in our fellowship, before HQS sent the corrupt (some) corps to our area to kill the joy in us with religion and crap…
I really hope you called the Police about that rape in Montana. Its against the law and he might be raping other women if you dont report him. In many states there is no statue of limitations on reporting rape, but esp if there is some DNA evidence, its always best to go to an emergency room after a rape and have them do a rape kit testing on you and get interrviewded by the Police rape squad. PLZ do this if you are ever raped
And to answer your question...NO I was not happy in the Way I always felt controlled and victimized, verbally and psychologically abused, and financially exploited
Ex was right!! It was my fault! I didn't even consider going to the police.
I thought I was more or less happy at the time but the whole thing was such a mind screw that I had nothing real to guage it against.
In retrospect it was more like Geo described some sort of incessant striving for something that might be up around the next corner--like a rabbit chasing a carrot on a stick--and never quite getting hold of it..Somehow I always seemed to screwup (or so they lead me to believe) just at the wrong moment..and didnt get the whole carrot.. so it was get back up and start chasing the carrot again.
The chase kept me too distracted to really feel much of anything except on a very superficial level...
It took a long time after getting out of that place, that pretty much denied any feeling that you had, to re integrate real emotions into my life in a workable way.
Im still working on it
No matter what lifes challenges are --Im a helluva lot happier now than I pretended to be in my waydaze
Lisa, you sweet girl, I am so sorry, and I hope you know those fools will answer to a higher power than the police, meaning the rapist and the damnable fools who blamed you.
As far as happy, well, kind of along the lines of what Waysider said. I guess not being happy got to be normal. Especially, not happy with myself, because I could not measure up to the standards I was taught God expected of me. And then the last three years, I was just plain miserable.
Of course, right now, happiness is a warm puppy, like the cocker spaniel asleep on my lap.
Going on, even after we left I was unhappy because I still thought I had failed God. Only recently has the sun begun to shine again, and I take pleasure in little things. I am learning that great truth not from TWI but from a 5 year old who held a weed to my nose. "Those things make me sneeze." I said. "They make me happy." he replied. I thought, kid, that is probably a deeper truth than I've heard from a while. The weeds we used to call fox tails, fluffy and seed bearing, to him are a thing of beauty.
So now that I'm no longer burdened with the necessity of being unhappy but joyful, I can enjoy the little things and be happy one minute at a time.
I was happy with twi when I first got involved. For probably the first three years when it was just one aspect of my otherwise busy life (I was a college kid and primarily focused on my schoolwork and hopes for my career) and I felt like I was finally getting some real understanding and practical application from the Bible.
But after college I switched my focus to twi-first and for the next 10 years I would say it was filled with happy moments surrounded by a lot of sincere effort (that whole "seek after joy not happiness" thing others have described on this thread).
And my last five or so years in twi were pure misery, because I knew I didn't want to be there but my spouse wouldn't hear of doing anything else, and every waking moment was consumed by what twi wanted from us. So, yeah... pretty much moment-by-moment, hour-by-hour, day-by-day, year after year of drudging, hopeless MISERY. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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cheranne
I was happy in Oklahoma City in 1978....after that NOT happy!
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waysider
We were taught early on that "happiness" was a shallow natural man emotion and we were to seek, instead, after "joy".
The problem is, TWI indirectly defined "joy" as an emotion you derived from doing things that were beneficial to the advancement of "the ministry". Sure, there were tapes and way ragazine articles and teachings about joy in the Bible, but it was understood you couldn't have joy if you were out of fellowship and you couldn't be in fellowship if you left the safety of the household.
So, in essence, it was supposed to be "normal" to not experience happiness.
What a twisted mess of wacky logic the whole thing was.
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WhiteDove
Happiness is fleeting but the Word of God is Sure ,
But as far as happiness goes happy as a
Still Am,,,,,,,,,
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Lisa
Waysider
I have to agree that it was a twisted mess of wacky logic.
I forgot about all the "joy" stuff. I remember that I was always supposed to be blessed for doing things that normally I would hate to do. Like cleaning under the stove to get rid of that one crumb that might have a devil spirit attached to it. While writing this it seems so ridiculously funny now. Funny but sick!
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waysider
Hi, Lisa
Here's an example of that "wacky" logic:
When I was in Fellow Laborers, I happened to find myself on a work detail assigned to clean the limb BRC one day.
We had visitors from Int. HQ that day.----(Side note: VPW never once visited our program in the whole three years I was there.)
One of the visitors asked me how I felt about mopping the floor.
I responded by telling him that, although I didn't enjoy mopping floors, it gave me a sense of satisfaction to know that people would be "blessed" by my efforts. He shook his head in a display of disapproval and chewed me out for not renewing my mind to enjoy it.
He said some day, maybe I would "get it" and then turned and walked away.
Now that's "wacky". :blink:
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wing
Lisa...
Definately NOT happy to hear you had to endure SILENTLY those things which you just described.
I think I thought I was happy at the time. Now I don't think I knew what happiness was.
Waysider correctly described that being happy was not the thing.
Being joyful was. (Whatever that meant?)
Another common phrase from that time was: God first, others second, yourself last.
How could we work at being happy? Unless happiness was doing that ministry (god) stuff;
or tending to that someone else second stuff.
There are so many values that were misplaced on us. With this you have pointed out yet another one.
One or two fond memories withstanding; I am mostly unhappy about the experience now.
Very much like the feeling of finding out that something had been stolen from me.
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RottieGrrrl
Good Lord Lisa, you had a different experience than I in TWI. I'm so sorry. :( BUT, it really sounds like the typical garbage that was around. The group think tank in action. AND I know what you mean about knowing what you SHOULD have felt. I actully DID feel the anger and frustration, but it was, like you said, pooh poohed away by people who were more "spiritual" than I. Hell, it still goes on in "christian" churches and wayfer offshoots.
I was really happy when I first started going to fellowship and learning about God and the truth of the bible. I was relieved that I wasn't going to hell, I never heard of being saved by grace and not by works, though it's a popular teaching now, I think the Way had really taught what people just were not teaching...anywhere...
I felt I was a part of a family, something I needed, but I soon found out that I really was only part of the group if I did everything that they did, taking the classes etc. Truly, do you think anyone would have been welcomed back time after time if they weren't going to take their 200 dollar class? (by 1979 standards 200 dollars was a lot of money) Then after the damned 200 dollar class came the 100 dollar "intermediate" class that I faked my way through. Finally I thought, damn, I am 17 years old and I am trying to be responsible with my money, and I can take classes from here till the cows come home and it's never going to satisfy these people.
I still think I have more commen sense than many ex-wayfers that are actively involved in the Way fellowship offshoots. I may not be as intelligent as some, but I have a hell of a lot more commen sense. And I don't try to gloss things over when it comes to the glaring mistakes made. I really hate that. Who do they think they're talking to? The same stupid 17 year old I was years ago?
Looking back, I still think the people were young, enthusiastic, sincere, but that damn PFAL and the classes really ruined everything. I still think the people were for the most part, great. It's the Way that got in the way, so to speak, and as far as I can see from the small fellowships and offshoots, it's still that same damn tired old song and dance 30 years later.
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jen-o
lisa, thank you for sharing this... xo
whitedove, sometimes ignorance is bliss...
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hiway29
I'm not sure how to define happiness. I was a lot of things during the period of time when I thought involvement in the way was doing me good, but I don't recall many times when I wasn't walking on eggshells lest I incur the wrath of some leader. I doubt that a state of contentment or 'happiness' ever existed for me.
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George Aar
The condition I recall most about my life during my cult daze (It HAS been almost 20 years ago now) was that of putting my life on "hold". There was always one more class, one more program, one more principle that needed to be mastered before we could start really living the "Abundant Life" that we'd all been promised. So, in retrospect, I see life in the cult that was/is The Way International as an interminable stint of sitting in the dentist's waiting room, forever biding time until that vague super-duper existence that we heard about finally arrived.
So my memories of WayWorld are primarily of simple boredom, and the ever-present feelings of inadequacy. Those were easy enough to overcome once I finally left. I'm so sorry for the real ugliness you had to endure...
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waysider
Here's another strange twist of logic that popped into my head.
Since we weren't supposed to actively seek "happiness", we started to accept that it was OK to not be happy.
We accepted this false sense of "joy" that was supposed to come from "doing the work of the ministry" as a viable substitute.
Now, of course, there will be those who will say "Joy is a fruit of the spirit." "Joy comes only from God."----------
Funny thing is, though, that's the kind of stuff they used to use to justify the work we did.
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Oakspear
There were times when I was happy and times when I wasn't. When I was, I gave credit to TWI and when I wasn't I blamed myself.
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excathedra
dearest lisa ((((((((((((( too many hugs to post ))))))))))))))) i am so so so sorry for the horrific tragedy you endured. i am sad and sick
no i wasn't happy
please feel free to PM if you like
again, i'm so sorry
love,ex
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lindyhopper
As a kid sure I was happy.
As an adult, there were obviously moments of happiness, but I wasn't a happy person, happy with my life, whether I realized it or not. I realize it now. There was a lot of suppressing of questions and emotions and trying to hide part of my life from people that had their noses way to far in my business. There was plenty of things I missed out on as a young adult because I had fellowship the next day and I just couldn't miss that without saying something to someone or I hadn't told leaders I was leaving the state (easy to do in the northeast).
I think there are studies that have shown that each of us has our own degree of happiness that is normal. There are spikes of happiness and dips of sadness but on a whole we typically have a "happiness equilibrium." I think for many of us even that equilibrium was out of whack in TWI and that is part of what makes it unhealthy. One part.
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excathedra
now why wouldn't you be happy about this ?
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Steveo
I really hope you called the Police about that rape in Montana. Its against the law and he might be raping other women if you dont report him. In many states there is no statue of limitations on reporting rape, but esp if there is some DNA evidence, its always best to go to an emergency room after a rape and have them do a rape kit testing on you and get interrviewded by the Police rape squad. PLZ do this if you are ever raped
And to answer your question...NO I was not happy in the Way I always felt controlled and victimized, verbally and psychologically abused, and financially exploited
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excathedra
of course she didn't call the police it was her fault
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Lisa
Thanks Ex
Waysider keeps saying that it's a twisted wacky logic. I put soooo much trust in the Way leaders and what they had to say. There was many times that I was probably just numb. I didn't feel anything at all. There's a theory by a Sociologist who studied flight attendants and what she saw with them was that they had to put on the "smile" all the time for the passengers and eventually the attendants would become numb to any emotions because the passenger is always right - just smile and agree. This is most likely how I felt - I had to put on the "smile" and always say I was blessed when in reality I was probably numb.
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Dot Matrix
Lisa:
I am so sorry that a mean-spirited person had the unmitigated gaul to say that to you. What a horrific example of heartless bull crap that Jesus would have had no part of... (The opposite of What would Jesus do....)
The Lord, and we if we (TWI) had actually represented him, should have held you close and let you share, then, gotten you some help -- someone with whom you could unload the horror of this event and heal.
I am so sorry you were forced to do the things he did to you, then forced to accept BLAME for it, all in the loving package of the love of God in the family of God ---- don't cha know...
Heck, an atheist drunk would have shown more love than what you got. I am so sorry for the pain and the loneliness of having to bury that event as if it were a secret for which you needed to bear the shame. Your story makes me sick, sick that people treated each other like this in the name of God.
Honey, we got a few nuts that still hang around here, they may get on here and minimize what happened and defend TWI -- please do not stuff this down into your core, accept any more pain, or disappear... We know they are nuts...
You just take time to heal and ignore any idiots who may post in support of that horrible ministry.
Yes, I was happy at times BEFORE I found out what I know now and the evil I experienced... Back when God was working in our fellowship, before HQS sent the corrupt (some) corps to our area to kill the joy in us with religion and crap…
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Lisa
Ex was right!! It was my fault! I didn't even consider going to the police.
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excathedra
numb is my friggin middle name
love,ex
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mstar1
I thought I was more or less happy at the time but the whole thing was such a mind screw that I had nothing real to guage it against.
In retrospect it was more like Geo described some sort of incessant striving for something that might be up around the next corner--like a rabbit chasing a carrot on a stick--and never quite getting hold of it..Somehow I always seemed to screwup (or so they lead me to believe) just at the wrong moment..and didnt get the whole carrot.. so it was get back up and start chasing the carrot again.
The chase kept me too distracted to really feel much of anything except on a very superficial level...
It took a long time after getting out of that place, that pretty much denied any feeling that you had, to re integrate real emotions into my life in a workable way.
Im still working on it
No matter what lifes challenges are --Im a helluva lot happier now than I pretended to be in my waydaze
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Watered Garden
Lisa, you sweet girl, I am so sorry, and I hope you know those fools will answer to a higher power than the police, meaning the rapist and the damnable fools who blamed you.
As far as happy, well, kind of along the lines of what Waysider said. I guess not being happy got to be normal. Especially, not happy with myself, because I could not measure up to the standards I was taught God expected of me. And then the last three years, I was just plain miserable.
Of course, right now, happiness is a warm puppy, like the cocker spaniel asleep on my lap.
Going on, even after we left I was unhappy because I still thought I had failed God. Only recently has the sun begun to shine again, and I take pleasure in little things. I am learning that great truth not from TWI but from a 5 year old who held a weed to my nose. "Those things make me sneeze." I said. "They make me happy." he replied. I thought, kid, that is probably a deeper truth than I've heard from a while. The weeds we used to call fox tails, fluffy and seed bearing, to him are a thing of beauty.
So now that I'm no longer burdened with the necessity of being unhappy but joyful, I can enjoy the little things and be happy one minute at a time.
Hope this makes a bit of sense.
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TheHighWay
I was happy with twi when I first got involved. For probably the first three years when it was just one aspect of my otherwise busy life (I was a college kid and primarily focused on my schoolwork and hopes for my career) and I felt like I was finally getting some real understanding and practical application from the Bible.
But after college I switched my focus to twi-first and for the next 10 years I would say it was filled with happy moments surrounded by a lot of sincere effort (that whole "seek after joy not happiness" thing others have described on this thread).
And my last five or so years in twi were pure misery, because I knew I didn't want to be there but my spouse wouldn't hear of doing anything else, and every waking moment was consumed by what twi wanted from us. So, yeah... pretty much moment-by-moment, hour-by-hour, day-by-day, year after year of drudging, hopeless MISERY. Nothing more. Nothing less.
(edited for typos... stupid fingers!!)
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