Seems to who? "Great religion" founder Mohammed (PBUHN) couldn't even read and write I'm to understand. Maybe the hoax is just so big that it is unfathomable that it could all be the figment of religious writers' imagination. No?
sudo
I don't know if I would be so negativo about it all...after all, isn't "religion" in all it's 9+ manifestos which got us here to this point in time?? And what a beeautiful family it is. Think of it, for ALL ETernity TOgether in One, like minded, Mooving the Word, from pillar to post. (it's a commercial break bare with me)
Where would Monsieur Sudo be without the beeautiful experience of the renewed mind, practicing dentistry in Ohio?
RE:"Despite the problems of religion at its more fundamental level, it does seem there may be great learning and insight somewhere there, that has been passed down through the ages. Where else were all those sages of old writing their thoughts?..."
Seems to who? "Great religion" founder Mohammed (PBUHN) couldn't even read and write I'm to understand. Maybe the hoax is just so big that it is unfathomable that it could all be the figment of religious writers' imagination. No?
It seems to ME. :) I was thinking old testament .. not Mohammed and his murderous ways.
There may be plenty of blather to sort through ... so maybe it is not worth it. What do you recommend? Shakespeare? Milton? Plato?
I'd like to read all that ... but there may be some values hidden in Proverbs ... or at least they may inspire us to consider "greater" things. Or maybe there really were sages that learned in certain structures that managed to survive long enough to develop a system .... I don't know.
Our system of laws has evolved ... maybe the old religions were the same ... if we can strip out some of the malarky ... or maybe they knew some spiritual things that we don't get ...
RE:"I was thinking old testament .. not Mohammed and his murderous ways."
But to be fair there were plenty of murderous ways in the Old Testament as we both know. God telling His people to slaughter whole populations (including the heathen's dang sheep.... and I'm partial to sheep.... cute little critters) for example. And Elijah having to cut off the heads of some 400+ prophets of a rival religion. Pretty brutal stuff by today's standards but probably par for the course for 2000 BCE times. We get so much more civilized as time passes don't you think?
God loves all people, animals, insects, plants, made of dirt
Yes we are all made of the same kinds of dirt God created in the beginning if you believe in God but if you do not the same dirt logic does not tell us where this dirt came from
I read some of this tread but not all because I enjoy reading Bill known as Rhino, Geo known as George Aar, Todd known as sirguessalot, cman known cman, jen-o known as jen-o, Bumpy known as Bumpy, Bramble known as Bramble, Garth known as GarthP2000, Seth known as Seth R, Oakspear known as Oakspear, waysider known as waysider, Caveman known as Caveman, Mister P-Mosh known as Mister P-Mosh, OKLAHOMA CITY WOW 78 known as OKLAHOMA CITY WOW 78, excathedra known as excathedra, T-Bone known as T-Bone, Mark known as Mark Sanguinetti, kimberly known as kimberly, Sudo known as Sudo, and hopes I did not miss anyone
But why take the time to list us all if I did not read the whole tread from beginning to end but just a few lines here and there caught my eyes
and why say people, animals, insects, plants, made of dirt because we are all boxes of dirt the question could be asked does God love the dirt or us
I would say both
with all logic we are the some of what we are made of
so we are dirt and water
some if we can talk then just plain dirt can talk but the key would be learning how to hear dirt talking to things around it
I have long for years to believe myself into many stages
while I was in the Way Ministry I was in a foolish stage of follower the leader's lies
when I left the Way Ministry I fought not to stray in the stage of blaiming God with moved me into a open mind stage of growth I would like to call it
While some of my Way Ministry class mates from the school of lies took another path one might call it not believing in God anymore I get to witness them in that stage from the outside
I see us all moving from room to room all trying to find the exit while some say one direction is wrong because they hit a dead end but I say not so you can always go back a few rooms and try again as long as there is breath
But things get a little wild when you find yourself in many different rooms at the same time but maybe that is the key not to be in one box or room but to be in them all at the same time
Believing there is a God but not like the God my little mind can dream up
Believing within fleshly logic and without
like Paul of 2 Corinthians 12:2 wrote "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
Paul know Christ within and without but he could not tell them so he gave us the hint if we just look outside logic
because both places are outside logic because Jesus had die
You see we must trow away logic when we become an believer because spiritual things are above logic
but when we become an unbelieve we must trow away logic too because everything had to come from nothing because logicually there was nothing before there came even dirt
Is God our reach to logicually understand where things came from or is God real
you made up your own set of believes but logic is out the door gone to never be
RE:"I was thinking old testament .. not Mohammed and his murderous ways."
But to be fair there were plenty of murderous ways in the Old Testament as we both know. God telling His people to slaughter whole populations (including the heathen's dang sheep.... and I'm partial to sheep.... cute little critters) for example. And Elijah having to cut off the heads of some 400+ prophets of a rival religion. Pretty brutal stuff by today's standards but probably par for the course for 2000 BCE times. We get so much more civilized as time passes don't you think?
Well, some things are probably not helpful ... maybe it is not worth trying to find the positives.
Or maybe the sheep had diseases ... we slaughter herds if they have mad cow. Cutting off the heads of the prophets would help convert the masses.
What do you have when you have 400 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? A good start.
See, the lessons might apply today.
I suppose we are more civilized today ... mostly. But we can learn from history ... I don't know if the OT is the best source ... I'd rather learn western civ' history first.
It's not easy to keep up when you are going in twenty different directions.
Seth, I mentioned those thing because I thought I might encourage you to look, but is appears that you have already done that. I think there is more to look at, though. There are historians who record miracle healing up until the time of Constantine. I find it interesting that is was at the time of Constantine when they ceased. Some say that it is because the Cannon is that which was perfect (I Cor 13:10). I personally believe that it was the 356 bishops who he had executed were the ones preforming the miracles.
There are also legal records and medical records that can be checked into. John G. Lake was investigated for fraud and was cleared of all charges. Oral Roberts sent all of his healed to doctors for official reports. I am not real knowledgeable of these things, but I know they exist. If the Lord grants me the time to do so, I might research some of it.
You see we must trow away logic when we become an believer because spiritual things are above logic
but when we become an unbelieve we must trow away logic too because everything had to come from nothing because logicually there was nothing before there came even dirt
2027, if you had read Seth a little more closely you would have found that it is John who is known as Caveman.
And, logic is what came from the tree of knowledge.
im going through the kriya yoga meditation phase right now. who knows where it will lead, but the teachings im reading and hearing are simple, fantastic/non-judgmental..
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I don't know if I would be so negativo about it all...after all, isn't "religion" in all it's 9+ manifestos which got us here to this point in time?? And what a beeautiful family it is. Think of it, for ALL ETernity TOgether in One, like minded, Mooving the Word, from pillar to post. (it's a commercial break bare with me)
Where would Monsieur Sudo be without the beeautiful experience of the renewed mind, practicing dentistry in Ohio?
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rhino
It seems to ME. :) I was thinking old testament .. not Mohammed and his murderous ways.
There may be plenty of blather to sort through ... so maybe it is not worth it. What do you recommend? Shakespeare? Milton? Plato?
I'd like to read all that ... but there may be some values hidden in Proverbs ... or at least they may inspire us to consider "greater" things. Or maybe there really were sages that learned in certain structures that managed to survive long enough to develop a system .... I don't know.
Our system of laws has evolved ... maybe the old religions were the same ... if we can strip out some of the malarky ... or maybe they knew some spiritual things that we don't get ...
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Sudo
Rhino,
RE:"I was thinking old testament .. not Mohammed and his murderous ways."
But to be fair there were plenty of murderous ways in the Old Testament as we both know. God telling His people to slaughter whole populations (including the heathen's dang sheep.... and I'm partial to sheep.... cute little critters) for example. And Elijah having to cut off the heads of some 400+ prophets of a rival religion. Pretty brutal stuff by today's standards but probably par for the course for 2000 BCE times. We get so much more civilized as time passes don't you think?
sudo
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year2027
God first
Beloved All
God loves all people, animals, insects, plants, made of dirt
Yes we are all made of the same kinds of dirt God created in the beginning if you believe in God but if you do not the same dirt logic does not tell us where this dirt came from
I read some of this tread but not all because I enjoy reading Bill known as Rhino, Geo known as George Aar, Todd known as sirguessalot, cman known cman, jen-o known as jen-o, Bumpy known as Bumpy, Bramble known as Bramble, Garth known as GarthP2000, Seth known as Seth R, Oakspear known as Oakspear, waysider known as waysider, Caveman known as Caveman, Mister P-Mosh known as Mister P-Mosh, OKLAHOMA CITY WOW 78 known as OKLAHOMA CITY WOW 78, excathedra known as excathedra, T-Bone known as T-Bone, Mark known as Mark Sanguinetti, kimberly known as kimberly, Sudo known as Sudo, and hopes I did not miss anyone
But why take the time to list us all if I did not read the whole tread from beginning to end but just a few lines here and there caught my eyes
and why say people, animals, insects, plants, made of dirt because we are all boxes of dirt the question could be asked does God love the dirt or us
I would say both
with all logic we are the some of what we are made of
so we are dirt and water
some if we can talk then just plain dirt can talk but the key would be learning how to hear dirt talking to things around it
I have long for years to believe myself into many stages
while I was in the Way Ministry I was in a foolish stage of follower the leader's lies
when I left the Way Ministry I fought not to stray in the stage of blaiming God with moved me into a open mind stage of growth I would like to call it
While some of my Way Ministry class mates from the school of lies took another path one might call it not believing in God anymore I get to witness them in that stage from the outside
I see us all moving from room to room all trying to find the exit while some say one direction is wrong because they hit a dead end but I say not so you can always go back a few rooms and try again as long as there is breath
But things get a little wild when you find yourself in many different rooms at the same time but maybe that is the key not to be in one box or room but to be in them all at the same time
Believing there is a God but not like the God my little mind can dream up
Believing within fleshly logic and without
like Paul of 2 Corinthians 12:2 wrote "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
Paul know Christ within and without but he could not tell them so he gave us the hint if we just look outside logic
because both places are outside logic because Jesus had die
You see we must trow away logic when we become an believer because spiritual things are above logic
but when we become an unbelieve we must trow away logic too because everything had to come from nothing because logicually there was nothing before there came even dirt
Is God our reach to logicually understand where things came from or is God real
you made up your own set of believes but logic is out the door gone to never be
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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cman
Well... I should have stayed out of this thread.
Is love rational and/or logical?
Or is there MORE TO IT!
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rhino
Well, some things are probably not helpful ... maybe it is not worth trying to find the positives.
Or maybe the sheep had diseases ... we slaughter herds if they have mad cow. Cutting off the heads of the prophets would help convert the masses.
What do you have when you have 400 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? A good start.
See, the lessons might apply today.
I suppose we are more civilized today ... mostly. But we can learn from history ... I don't know if the OT is the best source ... I'd rather learn western civ' history first.
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year2027
God first
Beloved cman
God loves you my dear friend
I think love is more than rational and/or logical thinking
because we learn to love before we learn to think rational and/or think logical with reason or without reason to or for
its logicual to love but there is no rational reason to love without reason but we do love things and people every day
like I might try to tell you why I love eating Pizza but would the reason might not make you love Pizza
love is just love unless we are all fools and its just cheimal reaction that does not happen in any orderly way
I love reading your views from your heart
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Caveman
It's not easy to keep up when you are going in twenty different directions.
Seth, I mentioned those thing because I thought I might encourage you to look, but is appears that you have already done that. I think there is more to look at, though. There are historians who record miracle healing up until the time of Constantine. I find it interesting that is was at the time of Constantine when they ceased. Some say that it is because the Cannon is that which was perfect (I Cor 13:10). I personally believe that it was the 356 bishops who he had executed were the ones preforming the miracles.
There are also legal records and medical records that can be checked into. John G. Lake was investigated for fraud and was cleared of all charges. Oral Roberts sent all of his healed to doctors for official reports. I am not real knowledgeable of these things, but I know they exist. If the Lord grants me the time to do so, I might research some of it.
2027, if you had read Seth a little more closely you would have found that it is John who is known as Caveman.
And, logic is what came from the tree of knowledge.
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Caveman
I also wanted to point out again that what people do in Jesus' name does not always represent Jesus.
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George Aar
Or in Spidermans' name either...
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nandon
cool thinking seth,
i love critical thinkers.
im going through the kriya yoga meditation phase right now. who knows where it will lead, but the teachings im reading and hearing are simple, fantastic/non-judgmental..
thanks again for sharing seth.
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