Caveat Victor

[Oakspear]

One of the recurring battles here at the ol' cafe features a disagreement between those who assign responsibility for certain woes that befell us to Wierwille and his subordinates and those who feel that each individual is completely responsible for anything that happened to them.

It is my position that in most cases we are responsible for how we think and act, and we decide how we will respond to people who treat us wrongly.

It is also my position that this kind of discussion gets pushed into a false dilemma: TWI and its leaders are totally responsible for our problems or we are totally responsible for our problems. The third alternative is that although we decided to stick with a group that was in many cases abusive, the leaders of TWI were wrong to take advantage of the position that we put ourselves in.

The emphasis should not be on whether Wierwille, Martindale or Joe Corps Grad was responsible for our mental state, or the problems that we encountered, but whether the actions that they took were ethical or not.

The way I see it, abusive leaders saw that there were people who, for one reason or another, were willing to put up with whatever level of abuse they were subject to in exchange for what they perceived were benefits: being part of "the household", having access to "the Word like it wasn't known since the 1st century", or whatever other reason people had for putting up with b.s. - Those leaders then took advantage of those people who had put themselves in that position by abusing them.

The emphasis should not be on whether those abused people could have theoretically walked away, or spoken up, but should be on those "leaders" who acted unethically and unbiblically when they knew that they had some people by the b@lls.

An analogy might be found in the workplace. Some people, whether due to lack of skills, inability to find a job in the same pay range, or just fear of change, might be convinced that they cannot quit their job. Does that mean that a supervisor is justified in treating the employee in an abusive manner because the employee has the option of leaving? Or is the supervisor being a bully, knowing that the employee that he or she picks on has no meaningful alternative?

It is a distraction to attempt to turn the spotlight back on those who feel victimized or abused. The spotlight should instead be on the perpetrators.

[waysider]

Part of the problem for many of us is that we were buying a product we knew little to nothing about.

We were discouraged from comparison shopping and, in fact, were told there was no similar product with which to compare it.

Yep, it's the first one to come down the production line in 2,000 years.

Whether we knew it or not, there were a lot of "hard sell" tactics being used.

"Ya know, if you don't take the class next week, there may not be another one for months!"

"If you don't get in this "film class", you might have to settle for a "tape class".

And on and on and on and on.

Long story made short-----We bought something under false pretenses.

[brideofjc]

Part of the problem for many of us is that we were buying a product we knew little to nothing about.

We were discouraged from comparison shopping and, in fact, were told there was no similar product with which to compare it.

Yep, it's the first one to come down the production line in 2,000 years.

Whether we knew it or not, there were a lot of "hard sell" tactics being used.

"Ya know, if you don't take the class next week, there may not be another one for months!"

"If you don't get in this "film class", you might have to settle for a "tape class".

And on and on and on and on.

Long story made short-----We bought something under false pretenses.

And we really didn't get what we paid for, either.

[frank123lol]

Alot of us here,for one reason or another were hurting,ie. drugs religion.suicide.

ect..I know I wanted somthing...The roa appealed to me..alot of people ,lots of girls hugging and kissing...It was the greatest thing next to heaven...

Then came the indepth mind games,urgency of times...

Do I blame the "ministry" for all my problems?No!.

Just took me awhile to see,smell,taste the bs..20 some years too late...

Vic and his show came at a time that may never happen again..

Now there is the internet,No one canbe isolated,or group for that matter...