I saw some kind of documentation on it. I think the numbers are for real, about the one in twenty five or so who can't really experience remorse, or guilt. I've met a few. One I know of can't feel remorse even over the experience of getting caught in wrongdoing.
vic's theology seems to suit some of them rather well.. the "I'm righteous and heaven bound and all hell can't stop me from going.. regardless of what I do or say about it"..
hell my just might prove some of these guys wrong in their convictions..
Once again -- trust your own instincts and anxieties, especially those concerning people who claim that dominating others, violence, war, or some other violation of your conscience is the grand solution to some problem. Do this even when, or especially when, everyone around you has completely stopped questioning authority. Recite to yourself what Stanley Milgram taught us about obedience. (At least six out of ten people will blindly obey a present, official-looking authority to the bitter end.) The good news is that having social support makes people somewhat more likely to challenge authority. Encourage those around you to question, too
... who can't really experience remorse, or guilt.
Can't? ... Or won't?
Maybe one thing we need to keep in mind is that sociopaths don't care about anybody else but themselves. ... Don't care. That is a (passive) act of will. They could care, ... but they don't. See, many of them (if not all of them) realize about the basic premise of "You live in a world with other people", but they just won't honor it. ... Because they just don't care.
That is, until they have a loaded gun stuck into their face, and the angry gun wielder is 1 microsecond shy from pulling the trigger, that is. <_< ... THEN they are fully cognizent that they live in a world with other people.
Them and child molesters, I just don't go with this crap of 'they have an illness!'. ... Yeah? Well, I got just the 'pill' to cure it.
bowti and watered garden, i'm really sorry saddened many hugs
i've told on here through the years that my "corps buddy" left a suicide note saying "i wish i were the man i knew to be...." before he blew his brains out. yes he suffered from great depression, etc., but boy !!!!!
--
i met wierwille and allen not too long after poor sandra's suicide (i didn't know her or anything about this heartbreaking tragedy)
--
also i was thinking about something rascal said about her wow sister, i think, having come from a very horrifying background
i remember (like i said it was shortly after poor sandy) when wierwille would counsel be about my past (incest, abuse, that kind of thing) and he felt he could be a healing presence for my troubled soul....
the more i think about it, the more i believe he really did not care.... at all.....
i had a dream (nightmare) about him last night, believe it or not, and it's just too degrading to repeat
May all your dreams from now on be sweet and peaceful.
I was never abused. I just get depressed when I feel like I'm not measuring up to someone else's expectations. My last three years in TWI I didn't measure up to anyone, including God, IMO. So it was rough.
I've got even more to live for now than I had back then.
Maybe one thing we need to keep in mind is that sociopaths don't care about anybody else but themselves. ... Don't care. That is a (passive) act of will. They could care, ... but they don't. See, many of them (if not all of them) realize about the basic premise of "You live in a world with other people", but they just won't honor it. ... Because they just don't care.
That is, until they have a loaded gun stuck into their face, and the angry gun wielder is 1 microsecond shy from pulling the trigger, that is. <_< ... THEN they are fully cognizent that they live in a world with other people.
Them and child molesters, I just don't go with this crap of 'they have an illness!'. ... Yeah? Well, I got just the 'pill' to cure it.
It's called a .44 caliber bullet.
WOW Garth!
That's along the lines of something I'd say. It certainly reflects my thinking.
Excie, I'm so sorry the twi years still haunt you, it does help to talk about it, it is awful that so many good people were preyed upon by those in power at twi.
I think abusers look for people who have histories of being abused, especially those who they feel will stay silent about it. I also think they are inherently insecure cowards, only picking on those weaker than themselves. A serial predator like wierwille would have been constantly evaluating and analyzing every woman or man he ever came across for weak spots, a ticking time bomb of sorts, looking for opportunity.
We all had our guards down and were vulnerable in that I think we were all very committed to the goal, very committed to God, and the idea that our ministry was the best vehicle for helping others find God...and perhaps our eyes weren't open to seeing the top men in anything other than the best light. I think vp tactically used that against us, and had no conscience regarding what he did to others especially when he wanted something from them, both men and women, we can see that even from the early days of the ministry.
Sociopath's can't there is no conscience in them. They have no barameter. They only immitate the "feelings" they see others have to get by and LOOK human - they use these acting tools to manipulate those around them
A narcississt won't they have a conscience they are just warped in that they only want to see everything and how it affects them
Sociopaths are like something the SCFI channel would create -- only they are really here.
A narcississt choses not to care, a sociopath does not have the ability to care - there is nothing in them that is real, they are devoid of conscience. They are an open tomb of dead that "acts" as if they feel because they can't.... From all I read.
But either way, these monsters push people to suicide for GAIN or for SPORT
They win at all costs -- and if someone dies so they can win - so-be-it
But they will cry at the funeral and look real "sad"
But inside happy because -- that woman was not going to get one over on them.... Win at all costs. You can not compete with a sociopath - you can only cut your losses and walk away. There is no cure because you cannot teach someone how to have a conscience.
every adult pretty a much knows crazy people are in the world.
and you know what we all have regrets and wishes we had not hurt that person after we realized what they were going through and the choice we made .
It sounds like you replaced the word devil spirits with the word socialpath to me, so lets just look for those evil "social paths" or is it devil possesed people?
and beware they are out to get ya!
very cult like thinking and para noid and inclusive living your life of knowing better than the rest about the "others" the bad people.
Jesus wants us to be aware of evil in the world but to gentle about do not stress it just trust God and live a happy life your own self.
what good does it do you to label that person as a social path. and that one isnt . Do you feel better about your self?
We can only control our own behaviour.
Also every person has their own breaking point.. I may be sane today but mess with somone I love and I could go off that social path devil spirit cliff on ya! just being honest.
why ?because of feeling strong feelings. to protect somone I love.
plenty of folks are in prison because they cared or loved so much about somone they went crazy and behaved in a mnner worthy of punishment.
why do you spend your day thinking your going to educate yourself about who is crazy or who isnt?
what does it do for your life and living?
everyone knows the saying "but he was a good neighbor and friend a real family man too! why would he do that?
the students and people shooting up places do not have a personality disorder neccesarily it is humans reacting to the stress they put their mind under.
i do believe if every person took care of their own business and stop harrassing others about what might be wrong with them or guessing about who is who is the standards of society we would all be able to be more peaceful
For Sadra Ann Sullivan's memory I will be happy to discuss the kind of man that hurt her. Nobodie's tows will be spared either.
Sociopaths are a very hard thing to look at without being left feeling dissolussioned and down on people in general. But if someone has been scarred by such a souless bastard then I can see it helping them to come to terms with this type of personallity.
Let everyone consider these things as they see fit I say!!!!!
...Some powerful and heartfelt posts...The subject of suicide is intense and can often be personal. I think that life is a precious thing. It's fleeting and it's profound...To have disregard for another human being...to use them and not care what happens to them...watching them kill themselves and then moving on to another victim...This is the picture that I see...
oldies...If you punch someone in the nose and they cry out...is it their fault for crying out?...I mean, they have freedom of will and should be able to control their own actions...right?...and if they DO cry out it was their own decision and therefore their own fault ...right? :blink:
I would put it this way:
If I punched someone in the nose and the cried out, then went home and shot themself in the head; i'd feel responsible for the bloody nose, but I'm sure as hell not taking responsibility for an action I have no control over, like someone else's suicide.
If I punched someone in the nose and the cried out, then went home and shot themself in the head; i'd feel responsible for the bloody nose, but I'm sure as hell not taking responsibility for an action I have no control over, like someone else's suicide.
Allright then...I agree but let's not mix apples and oranges...
Taking sexual advantage of a young woman, under the auspices that you're doing "God's will", is risky business...if the girl is strong enough and stable enough, she probably will not commit suicide...BUT, there is a percentage that is unstable enough that this act will trigger suicide in them...and even if they don't actually kill themselves, what about the psychological damage done?
So what is it?...Wierwille gets off scott free?...You honestly don't hold him responsible for his part in the girl killing herself?...Wow!...Your analytical views leave you in a very "cold place"...IMHO.
I've never been in that situation but would probably feel very sorry for the woman committing suicide, as I'm sure Dr. & Howard did. I don't think of these men as monsters; they were people with feelings. Howard's still alive, maybe somebody can call and ask how he felt when she killed herself, and see what he says.
Yeah, but if you were a teacher...maybe even a karate teacher who spent a life time training in martial arts and you busted a person in the nose whom was not expecting it, whom trusted you and was not prepared physically to take the blow...someone whom was younger and smaller and more vulnerable than you...the damage inflicted would be catastrophic...and you would indeed be held accountable.
Wierwille masqueraded as a minister who cared about you....who had the appearance of a kindly grandfather...who represented as one whom could provide you with all answeres to life and Godliness...who promised you the peace of God ..... IF IF IF.... you would take his class and follow his instructions. All of these things would tend to disarm ones suspicions, ones natural skeptisism....
Your intense desire for peace, for the love of God, for the pain inside to stop would perhaps mute any residual distrust.
You then placed your trust and life in the hands of this man believing that God had at last answered your heartfelt prayers .....only to be used, passed around and eventually kicked to the curb like so much trash once these sick old men`s lusts were sated. By the time you find out that it was all an excuse to get you in bed....that these guys...indeed God almighty had no use for you other than as an object to relieve themselves on....my God how intense the shame, the pain must have been.
The man utterly and vilely betrayed innocent young people in the name of God and used scriptures, manipulation, intimidation, threats, and down right savaging of peoples lives and reputations to cover his tracks.
As if that wasn`t bad enough,....he taught others to do the same.
The blood is thick on their hands. The soul less bast ards :(
So if you walked in the door to this person's house, and s/he had a gun to h/her head and was about to pull the trigger, would you attempt to intervene? Or would you think, hey, this is that individual's decision, I'll just step aside so none of the arterial spatter will get on my shirt? I mean, I can see where you might think that individual has already made the decision and if you would try to stop them, you would be taking some of the responsibility for their life on you and that would just be awful, now, wouldn't it?
Or could you maybe say, go ahead, you gutless, spineless, worthless nobody, blow your little bitty brain out the back of your ugly head. The world doesn't need weaklings like you around anyway?
I've never been in that situation but would probably feel very sorry for the woman committing suicide, as I'm sure Dr. & Howard did. I don't think of these men as monsters; they were people with feelings.
Oldies, remember all the times that you would deny any and all accusations that you would do whatever it took to whitewash VPW's reputation due to your near blind loyalty to him?
As clearly illustrated by your latest post, the fact that you don't regard VPW as a 'monster' because of his sexual and psychological abuse of all those women (where such activities would rightfully cause any reasonable and moral person to condemn anybody who does such activities as a 'monster'), ... just goes to undermine any of your denials.
Yet you still endeavor to whitewash and defend someone who's reputation has long since died, ... almost as long ago as his physical death.
every adult pretty a much knows crazy people are in the world.
I do not SEE where anyone said the enemy is US. And just because YOU think as an adult YOU know who the crazies are -- may I remind you you were also in a cult with cult insanity at its core. So, I guess you may have spent a little time away from the Blue Book and read up on sociopaths -- that research could have spared you.
Why do you spend your day thinking your going to educate yourself about who is crazy or who isnt?
what does it do for your life and living?
I actually had been studying as a psychiatric nurse, and that whole area of medicine is worth studying and can be helpful to victims. As a person who cannot concentrate will benefit from learning they have ADHD.
Education rocks.
I educate myself about what I choose, I will get understanding where I am led, and I will grow in the education outside of the limited spheres that have been deemed valid by you.
It has helped me to identify those who victimize BEFORE I again become a victim
Being as this is a public board, and PEOPLE pushed this girl to suicide, I think looking at the type of PEOPLE who do such a thing is warranted.
Fairytales don't always have happy endings - so even if I choose to absorb only sweet rainbows of stories - they still are not what rose-colored glasses block out. Reality bites at times. People pushing others to suicide bites. The kind of people WHO do that bite. Sometimes looking at a situation and the people in it can be revealing.
Seems like you have a pretty good handle on "crazy" there, Pond. So, this information will not be helpful to you. So, ignore it. I don’t know why you took it so personally as if I inserted your name in the slot where I discussed the general characteristics of mental illness. You choose to trade the term mental illness for devil spirit and took things personally. That would be your reaction to an inocuious observation and public discussion. Maybe you want to take a moment and see why it brought up such anger in you.
I've never been in that situation but would probably feel very sorry for the woman committing suicide, as I'm sure Dr. & Howard did. I don't think of these men as monsters; they were people with feelings. Howard's still alive
I just wonder.. when WOULD you think of those *men* as monsters? What would it take?
suppose your own mother, or wife, or sister, or niece.. came home from "church camp".. absolutely crushed to the core.. "touched" by the "manogawd"s" hand.. passed from one mogster's bed to another.. they aren't exactly sure how it happened.. but the head honcho tried to justify it with scripture, and threats..
and the betrayal sent one to the "loonie bin".. and another to suicide?
And you know these folks.. they were bright, intelligent, and cheery one moment.. full of life and hope.. goals in life.. the next, they are either sullen, terrified and depressed, or plain gone from the world..
would THAT have an impact on who you deemed a "monster"?
I'd like to remind you.. those SISTERS in Christ, they are supposed to be like family- SUPPOSED to be like brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins..
maybe that's too much to ask another human being..
I'd like to remind you.. those SISTERS in Christ, they are supposed to be like family- SUPPOSED to be like brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins..
Ya know.. der vey taught that "spirit is thicker than blood"..
I've been looking for that kind of connection with other "beings" like me all of my life.. maybe it's just all an illusion.. maybe it's just not there.
A "socialpath" as you consider is not going to change his behaviour because your educated.
so I guess what your saying is if you educate yourself enough you can avoid people doing bad things that victimize you?
ok i will buy that good luck with your mission.
it just seems to me most "social paths " as defined in this thread are not being very much changed or stopped by anyones education about their personality .
the head line stories of that one that did that crime are almost always AFTER the fact.
no one writes geez larry here has all the traits and the personality of a "social path" with any amount of education and can anyone predict his next behaviour? maybe but does it change anything at all?
i believe that is why the paper said to move away from the relationship and not try to force change.
but one social path to you may be the great company man or husband or wife and parent to another.
it is about each person taking responsibility for their own life as oldman states.
if you think somone is a social path you cant change anything about him/ her but you can take responsibility for how you chose to interact with them.
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Watered Garden
My own personal opinion is that Mr. Prager's opinion is shallow, judgmental, and ill-informed. I've never seriously tried to take my own life, but I've been in situations where I felt like I should.
Ham
What I can't understand is how someone could sink as low as to name their offspring after him..
Ham
Hmm.. like the Boys from Brazil I guess.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boys_from_Brazil_(film) Same here..
Ham
I saw some kind of documentation on it. I think the numbers are for real, about the one in twenty five or so who can't really experience remorse, or guilt. I've met a few. One I know of can't feel remorse even over the experience of getting caught in wrongdoing.
vic's theology seems to suit some of them rather well.. the "I'm righteous and heaven bound and all hell can't stop me from going.. regardless of what I do or say about it"..
hell my just might prove some of these guys wrong in their convictions..
sowy..
:)
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Dot Matrix
RE: the book
http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interview...hor_number=1097
I love this
Question authority.
Once again -- trust your own instincts and anxieties, especially those concerning people who claim that dominating others, violence, war, or some other violation of your conscience is the grand solution to some problem. Do this even when, or especially when, everyone around you has completely stopped questioning authority. Recite to yourself what Stanley Milgram taught us about obedience. (At least six out of ten people will blindly obey a present, official-looking authority to the bitter end.) The good news is that having social support makes people somewhat more likely to challenge authority. Encourage those around you to question, too
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GarthP2000
Can't? ... Or won't?
Maybe one thing we need to keep in mind is that sociopaths don't care about anybody else but themselves. ... Don't care. That is a (passive) act of will. They could care, ... but they don't. See, many of them (if not all of them) realize about the basic premise of "You live in a world with other people", but they just won't honor it. ... Because they just don't care.
That is, until they have a loaded gun stuck into their face, and the angry gun wielder is 1 microsecond shy from pulling the trigger, that is. <_< ... THEN they are fully cognizent that they live in a world with other people.
Them and child molesters, I just don't go with this crap of 'they have an illness!'. ... Yeah? Well, I got just the 'pill' to cure it.
It's called a .44 caliber bullet.
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excathedra
bowti and watered garden, i'm really sorry saddened many hugs
i've told on here through the years that my "corps buddy" left a suicide note saying "i wish i were the man i knew to be...." before he blew his brains out. yes he suffered from great depression, etc., but boy !!!!!
--
i met wierwille and allen not too long after poor sandra's suicide (i didn't know her or anything about this heartbreaking tragedy)
--
also i was thinking about something rascal said about her wow sister, i think, having come from a very horrifying background
i remember (like i said it was shortly after poor sandy) when wierwille would counsel be about my past (incest, abuse, that kind of thing) and he felt he could be a healing presence for my troubled soul....
the more i think about it, the more i believe he really did not care.... at all.....
i had a dream (nightmare) about him last night, believe it or not, and it's just too degrading to repeat
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excathedra
i want to apologize for saying my "corps buddy" i don't know why i did that. he was really a very special friend at that time period in my life
sorry
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Watered Garden
Exxie,
May all your dreams from now on be sweet and peaceful.
I was never abused. I just get depressed when I feel like I'm not measuring up to someone else's expectations. My last three years in TWI I didn't measure up to anyone, including God, IMO. So it was rough.
I've got even more to live for now than I had back then.
You take care.
WG
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Ron G.
WOW Garth!
That's along the lines of something I'd say. It certainly reflects my thinking.
Let's go have a beer....on me.
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now I see
Excie, I'm so sorry the twi years still haunt you, it does help to talk about it, it is awful that so many good people were preyed upon by those in power at twi.
I think abusers look for people who have histories of being abused, especially those who they feel will stay silent about it. I also think they are inherently insecure cowards, only picking on those weaker than themselves. A serial predator like wierwille would have been constantly evaluating and analyzing every woman or man he ever came across for weak spots, a ticking time bomb of sorts, looking for opportunity.
We all had our guards down and were vulnerable in that I think we were all very committed to the goal, very committed to God, and the idea that our ministry was the best vehicle for helping others find God...and perhaps our eyes weren't open to seeing the top men in anything other than the best light. I think vp tactically used that against us, and had no conscience regarding what he did to others especially when he wanted something from them, both men and women, we can see that even from the early days of the ministry.
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GarthP2000
Sure thing. ... Just make sure that your sign off avatar doesn't join us. ... She seems fixated on her, ... uh ... nose.
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Dot Matrix
Garth - to my understanding
Sociopath's can't there is no conscience in them. They have no barameter. They only immitate the "feelings" they see others have to get by and LOOK human - they use these acting tools to manipulate those around them
A narcississt won't they have a conscience they are just warped in that they only want to see everything and how it affects them
Sociopaths are like something the SCFI channel would create -- only they are really here.
A narcississt choses not to care, a sociopath does not have the ability to care - there is nothing in them that is real, they are devoid of conscience. They are an open tomb of dead that "acts" as if they feel because they can't.... From all I read.
But either way, these monsters push people to suicide for GAIN or for SPORT
They win at all costs -- and if someone dies so they can win - so-be-it
But they will cry at the funeral and look real "sad"
But inside happy because -- that woman was not going to get one over on them.... Win at all costs. You can not compete with a sociopath - you can only cut your losses and walk away. There is no cure because you cannot teach someone how to have a conscience.
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pond
So we have met the enemy and he is us eh?
look
every adult pretty a much knows crazy people are in the world.
and you know what we all have regrets and wishes we had not hurt that person after we realized what they were going through and the choice we made .
It sounds like you replaced the word devil spirits with the word socialpath to me, so lets just look for those evil "social paths" or is it devil possesed people?
and beware they are out to get ya!
very cult like thinking and para noid and inclusive living your life of knowing better than the rest about the "others" the bad people.
Jesus wants us to be aware of evil in the world but to gentle about do not stress it just trust God and live a happy life your own self.
what good does it do you to label that person as a social path. and that one isnt . Do you feel better about your self?
We can only control our own behaviour.
Also every person has their own breaking point.. I may be sane today but mess with somone I love and I could go off that social path devil spirit cliff on ya! just being honest.
why ?because of feeling strong feelings. to protect somone I love.
plenty of folks are in prison because they cared or loved so much about somone they went crazy and behaved in a mnner worthy of punishment.
why do you spend your day thinking your going to educate yourself about who is crazy or who isnt?
what does it do for your life and living?
everyone knows the saying "but he was a good neighbor and friend a real family man too! why would he do that?
the students and people shooting up places do not have a personality disorder neccesarily it is humans reacting to the stress they put their mind under.
i do believe if every person took care of their own business and stop harrassing others about what might be wrong with them or guessing about who is who is the standards of society we would all be able to be more peaceful
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JeffSjo
For Sadra Ann Sullivan's memory I will be happy to discuss the kind of man that hurt her. Nobodie's tows will be spared either.
Sociopaths are a very hard thing to look at without being left feeling dissolussioned and down on people in general. But if someone has been scarred by such a souless bastard then I can see it helping them to come to terms with this type of personallity.
Let everyone consider these things as they see fit I say!!!!!
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oldiesman
I would put it this way:
If I punched someone in the nose and the cried out, then went home and shot themself in the head; i'd feel responsible for the bloody nose, but I'm sure as hell not taking responsibility for an action I have no control over, like someone else's suicide.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Allright then...I agree but let's not mix apples and oranges...
Taking sexual advantage of a young woman, under the auspices that you're doing "God's will", is risky business...if the girl is strong enough and stable enough, she probably will not commit suicide...BUT, there is a percentage that is unstable enough that this act will trigger suicide in them...and even if they don't actually kill themselves, what about the psychological damage done?
So what is it?...Wierwille gets off scott free?...You honestly don't hold him responsible for his part in the girl killing herself?...Wow!...Your analytical views leave you in a very "cold place"...IMHO.
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oldiesman
I've never been in that situation but would probably feel very sorry for the woman committing suicide, as I'm sure Dr. & Howard did. I don't think of these men as monsters; they were people with feelings. Howard's still alive, maybe somebody can call and ask how he felt when she killed herself, and see what he says.
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waysider
Oldies
I couldn't care less whether or not you would feel remorse.
(Especially in light of the fact that you've previously indicated you wouldn't.)
What's being discussed here is Wierwille's lack of empathy, not yours.
He displayed no sense of remorse for his involvement in the stated events.
Debate the significance of that if you want to but don't deny the reality.
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rascal
Yeah, but if you were a teacher...maybe even a karate teacher who spent a life time training in martial arts and you busted a person in the nose whom was not expecting it, whom trusted you and was not prepared physically to take the blow...someone whom was younger and smaller and more vulnerable than you...the damage inflicted would be catastrophic...and you would indeed be held accountable.
Wierwille masqueraded as a minister who cared about you....who had the appearance of a kindly grandfather...who represented as one whom could provide you with all answeres to life and Godliness...who promised you the peace of God ..... IF IF IF.... you would take his class and follow his instructions. All of these things would tend to disarm ones suspicions, ones natural skeptisism....
Your intense desire for peace, for the love of God, for the pain inside to stop would perhaps mute any residual distrust.
You then placed your trust and life in the hands of this man believing that God had at last answered your heartfelt prayers .....only to be used, passed around and eventually kicked to the curb like so much trash once these sick old men`s lusts were sated. By the time you find out that it was all an excuse to get you in bed....that these guys...indeed God almighty had no use for you other than as an object to relieve themselves on....my God how intense the shame, the pain must have been.
The man utterly and vilely betrayed innocent young people in the name of God and used scriptures, manipulation, intimidation, threats, and down right savaging of peoples lives and reputations to cover his tracks.
As if that wasn`t bad enough,....he taught others to do the same.
The blood is thick on their hands. The soul less bast ards :(
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Watered Garden
Oldies,
So if you walked in the door to this person's house, and s/he had a gun to h/her head and was about to pull the trigger, would you attempt to intervene? Or would you think, hey, this is that individual's decision, I'll just step aside so none of the arterial spatter will get on my shirt? I mean, I can see where you might think that individual has already made the decision and if you would try to stop them, you would be taking some of the responsibility for their life on you and that would just be awful, now, wouldn't it?
Or could you maybe say, go ahead, you gutless, spineless, worthless nobody, blow your little bitty brain out the back of your ugly head. The world doesn't need weaklings like you around anyway?
Just wondering.
WG
'No Man is an Island'
No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
John Donne 1572-1631
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GarthP2000
Oldies, remember all the times that you would deny any and all accusations that you would do whatever it took to whitewash VPW's reputation due to your near blind loyalty to him?
As clearly illustrated by your latest post, the fact that you don't regard VPW as a 'monster' because of his sexual and psychological abuse of all those women (where such activities would rightfully cause any reasonable and moral person to condemn anybody who does such activities as a 'monster'), ... just goes to undermine any of your denials.
Yet you still endeavor to whitewash and defend someone who's reputation has long since died, ... almost as long ago as his physical death.
He ain't worth the waste of time and effort.
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Dot Matrix
Pond, I assume you are yelling at me
You said:
I do not SEE where anyone said the enemy is US. And just because YOU think as an adult YOU know who the crazies are -- may I remind you you were also in a cult with cult insanity at its core. So, I guess you may have spent a little time away from the Blue Book and read up on sociopaths -- that research could have spared you.I actually had been studying as a psychiatric nurse, and that whole area of medicine is worth studying and can be helpful to victims. As a person who cannot concentrate will benefit from learning they have ADHD.
Education rocks.
I educate myself about what I choose, I will get understanding where I am led, and I will grow in the education outside of the limited spheres that have been deemed valid by you.
It has helped me to identify those who victimize BEFORE I again become a victim
Being as this is a public board, and PEOPLE pushed this girl to suicide, I think looking at the type of PEOPLE who do such a thing is warranted.
Fairytales don't always have happy endings - so even if I choose to absorb only sweet rainbows of stories - they still are not what rose-colored glasses block out. Reality bites at times. People pushing others to suicide bites. The kind of people WHO do that bite. Sometimes looking at a situation and the people in it can be revealing.
Seems like you have a pretty good handle on "crazy" there, Pond. So, this information will not be helpful to you. So, ignore it. I don’t know why you took it so personally as if I inserted your name in the slot where I discussed the general characteristics of mental illness. You choose to trade the term mental illness for devil spirit and took things personally. That would be your reaction to an inocuious observation and public discussion. Maybe you want to take a moment and see why it brought up such anger in you.
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Ham
I just wonder.. when WOULD you think of those *men* as monsters? What would it take?
suppose your own mother, or wife, or sister, or niece.. came home from "church camp".. absolutely crushed to the core.. "touched" by the "manogawd"s" hand.. passed from one mogster's bed to another.. they aren't exactly sure how it happened.. but the head honcho tried to justify it with scripture, and threats..
and the betrayal sent one to the "loonie bin".. and another to suicide?
And you know these folks.. they were bright, intelligent, and cheery one moment.. full of life and hope.. goals in life.. the next, they are either sullen, terrified and depressed, or plain gone from the world..
would THAT have an impact on who you deemed a "monster"?
I'd like to remind you.. those SISTERS in Christ, they are supposed to be like family- SUPPOSED to be like brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins..
maybe that's too much to ask another human being..
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Ham
Ya know.. der vey taught that "spirit is thicker than blood"..
I've been looking for that kind of connection with other "beings" like me all of my life.. maybe it's just all an illusion.. maybe it's just not there.
came close, once..
:)
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pond
not angry. not yelling at you dot Matrix.
A "socialpath" as you consider is not going to change his behaviour because your educated.
so I guess what your saying is if you educate yourself enough you can avoid people doing bad things that victimize you?
ok i will buy that good luck with your mission.
it just seems to me most "social paths " as defined in this thread are not being very much changed or stopped by anyones education about their personality .
the head line stories of that one that did that crime are almost always AFTER the fact.
no one writes geez larry here has all the traits and the personality of a "social path" with any amount of education and can anyone predict his next behaviour? maybe but does it change anything at all?
i believe that is why the paper said to move away from the relationship and not try to force change.
but one social path to you may be the great company man or husband or wife and parent to another.
it is about each person taking responsibility for their own life as oldman states.
if you think somone is a social path you cant change anything about him/ her but you can take responsibility for how you chose to interact with them.
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jen-o
pond, honey, it's "sociopath" not "social path"
(although those "social paths" might be nice at a garden party)
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