By 1976 I was already a "waysider" trudging down to the truck stop under the guise of a "junk run" to have private conversations with my fellow FLO. Little did we know, though, that a lot of the stuff that wasn't making sense to us was not confined to our little program in the middle of Podunk, USA. For me, at least, the "sweet times" were all before I moved on from being a twiggie at the local level. Part of the problem, in my opinion, was that TWI was really nothing more than a multi level marketing effort.(MLM) Sooner or later, somebody has to move past the point of bringing in new recruits and start "selling the soap".
I recruit Joe, Joe recruits Fred, Fred recruits Oscar and on and on and on. We were all so busy recruiting, we didn't notice that nobody was "selling the soap". (Living the Abundant Life that "PLAF(The Wonder Class)" was supposed to enable us to do.)
Many of us learned some good things from some of the honest people that were involved. Many good folks who spoke up were sent packing. I'll always be thankful for those guys.
We will never know until the return how much impact it really had.
Until then I know I don't need any man or ministry to show me that God is real and he will take care of those who trust him.
One of the things that I've learned here at the cafe is that no matter what year you look at you'll find people who look at that year as a time of sweet fellowship, moving the Word and personal growth. You'll also find people who view the same year as a time when the ministry was going downhill, the Word wasn't moving, and everything was going to hell.
i would hate to think that i would never have moved on from twi (with it's limited and flawed doctrine and it's cultic practices, including idolatry)...
even when i was involved with twi, it never consumed my life...
and it never was about vpw or the organization for me...
so i doubt that i would have remained in twi's stagnant pool of water...
What I've come to realize is that I was always trying to get back to the firsts --- and that was an elusive illusion.
Wow, is that ever an importance concept!!
I know someone who fell in love, got married, and tied up her finances very quickly with a guy she thought was everything she was looking for, only to find out there wasn't a single thing he had told her about himself that had been the truth!! (not his age, background, work history, financial history, family ties... nothing) In the time it took her to figure that out, he'd eaten through her life savings and put her deeply into debt. She divorced him. But she can't get over him. Why not? Because she can't let go of what he was like in the beginning. He was kind, caring, thoughtful, generous... and she keeps saying she doesn't understand where that man went? She really cannot bring herself to face the fact that this was just a mask hiding the real person inside -- the selfish, callous, mean, violent man she saw after they were married. She keeps looking for a REASON for the change, and will not admit that no change happened, just a lifting of the mask.
That's what folks who cling to their love of the vicster and of twi remind me of... my friend who wants so badly to believe in the dream that she'll deny the reality right in front of her to do it.
That's a really good analogy. If things weren't so good at the beginning for everyone who got into TWI, they would have never stuck around would they? I'm sorry about your friend.
Well, bfh's comment about sticking around because you somehow think you can get back to what it what it once was, really struck a chord with me!! I know I did that for YEARS and years and years, not realizing that "what it once was" wasn't attainable because it wasn't real to start with. Just a very profound thought there, bfh!!
Oh Wow highway...that is an amazing comparison...and man am I sorry about your friend.
I am reminded of that verse in proverbs about *in vain is the snare set in sight of the prey*
It`s like you said ...the mask hides the person inside....the woman would never have fallen for the fella as he really was.....he had to create a persona that would attract her and disguise his true nature. In twi, it was the scriptures that disguised the snare....that hid the deceitful practices of vpw and the people that he taught.
It HAS to look good in order to disarms ones suspicions, to get someone to lower their guard...the bait HAS to be enticing in order to lure the prey into the trap.. the predator has to be disguised in order to get close enough to strike....otherwise the prey sees the danger and escapes.
I think that it is like oak said, whenever we got into twi...that was when it was *good* and got messed up from there. When we were newbies and being undershepherded, we were being loved and nurtured, the true nature of twi was kept carefully hidden for when we would be older and spiritualy mature enough to handle it.
I think that it is like oak said, whenever we got into twi...that was when it was *good* and got messed up from there. When we were newbies and being undershepherded, we were being loved and nurtured, the true nature of twi was kept carefully hidden for when we would be older and spiritualy mature enough to handle it.
Boy, and that's a really good point too... we each joined the group at the point we were looking for something and thought we'd found it with twi... so for each of us, that starting point is when things (to our eyes) seemed good in twi. And when things got bad for each of us, it seemed a corruption of what we first knew. That is just an amazing truth, Oak. Especially since twi was so good at hiding the facts about their own past, while proclaiming consistency, none of us had much of a concept of what came before...
That is a good point Oak ... and since Jim started off with the business comparison ... it seems to extend to that comparison as well.
When you are being sold that new car ... everything is promised, it all looks great and shiny, wow it is exciting. Then you have some mechanical troubles, parts are expensive, repairs become more frequent, and you are still making the big payments. Then you wish you'd read the Consumer Reports more carefully.
Of course with twi the sales never ended. But it did change from happy happy joy joy ... to doulos for the Lord. The hierarchy of the way tree replaced joint heirs, one body, members in particular. With the tree, the money all went to the trunk, and there were only three members.
TWI sold a dream ... and as you moved up the ladder, if you admitted you were not happy or were not seeing miracles and wonders, then you were admitting to failure. So everyone pretended the emperor had clothes on ... but vic never did any miracles either, except getting away with exposing his nakedness to so many.
It became sort of like multi level marketing, the more you had under you, the more successful you were. Except only the top dogs really got any money. The lower dogs got their treats from getting to lord over their flock, and teach and wear special nametags ... it was mostly about ego reward, which really kept the costs down. Mixed in were a lot of people that were deceived, and felt they were working for God.
The special features on the WayMobile were what made the devotees feel proud. TWI came loaded with items the denominations didn't have... JC is not God, Dead are not Alive, Good Friday to Sunday is not 3 days and 3 nights, etc.
Of course it was true that denominations had accepted some pagan traditions, so that opened the door for the vicster. But he was a charlatan from the start, which is the biggest problem with the TWI business. It was all illusion. PFAL was plagiarized research and made up stories, with tons of repetition. The Corps was not a top notch school of Tyrannus, it was a fledgling attempt that was concocted on the fly.
Anyway, Vic's success was in using people ... he sold them a MOGFOT story, got them to stay around for the ego. I suppose he painted a grand enough vision, and organized enough of a structure, to allow his scam to grow pretty big. But it involved so much fraud that it was only held together by more and more lies.
In short, TWI costs were so low because it had cult power ... cult devotees giving even their bodies in service to the king. I would hope I would have gotten out, even if vp were still alive.
It hit me a few years ago when a poster that we don't see around here too much anymore posted about how she got out when she saw things going down the tubes, legalism, etc...and she was talking about 1974...on the same thread another poster talked about the good times, the good people "hot bible" and "sweet fellowship" and he was talking about 1992
Reading some of the Infamous Last Word posts started me wondering how things could have gone so wrong. Rewind to 1979. TWI had it all. A motivated workforce that was either paying them to work (Way Corps), working for free (rank and file Jane and Joe believer) or working for poverty wages and benefits (staff). They also had a product (PFAL) that had zero advertising costs, a profit margin beyond belief and zero tax obligations. As a business owner, I'd give my left nut for any one of these things. Well, metaphorically at least.
But they destroyed it all.
Why.. why indeed. Is it possible that some people can NEVER be satisfied?
Of course, it could bring to question the mental stability of those running the place as well..
Yep.. never satisfied. One could put together hundreds of classes.. run multitudes through vic's "believer factory".. clean leader's houses, save a "leader" hundreds of dollars by running a phone and fax line to his office, oh.. not for ministry purposes, but for his BUSINESS you find out later. Babysit the kids.. set up the meetings. clean, clean, clean.. donate AV equipment for classes and meetings, and take an hour off work to be able to arrive early, not to mention, continue to hold a second rate job at which they didn't give a DAMN where you had to run off to an hour early..as long as you can *live* and still fork over 15 percent, cue the tapes, all this, with a smile, and without any renumeration, and LITTLE thanks..
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waysider
I don't know.
By 1976 I was already a "waysider" trudging down to the truck stop under the guise of a "junk run" to have private conversations with my fellow FLO. Little did we know, though, that a lot of the stuff that wasn't making sense to us was not confined to our little program in the middle of Podunk, USA. For me, at least, the "sweet times" were all before I moved on from being a twiggie at the local level. Part of the problem, in my opinion, was that TWI was really nothing more than a multi level marketing effort.(MLM) Sooner or later, somebody has to move past the point of bringing in new recruits and start "selling the soap".
I recruit Joe, Joe recruits Fred, Fred recruits Oscar and on and on and on. We were all so busy recruiting, we didn't notice that nobody was "selling the soap". (Living the Abundant Life that "PLAF(The Wonder Class)" was supposed to enable us to do.)
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bfh
I'd have to agree with Waysider, even though I didn't get involved until late '81; it was the same MLM.
I was inching my way out the door, when the poop hit the fan, so to speak, and I left in Spring '87 for good and for ever.
Plus, it was really pretty boring if you weren't involved in some kind of program.
What I've come to realize is that I was always trying to get back to the first - and that was an elusive illusion.
For instance, the first ROA I attended was, from my perspective, magical.
The second not so much, and the third, well with the third I was over it, and never going back to an ROA.
There's no way I would have stayed with the way.
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polar bear
I hear you. They had a good thing going.
Many of us learned some good things from some of the honest people that were involved. Many good folks who spoke up were sent packing. I'll always be thankful for those guys.
We will never know until the return how much impact it really had.
Until then I know I don't need any man or ministry to show me that God is real and he will take care of those who trust him.
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Oakspear
One of the things that I've learned here at the cafe is that no matter what year you look at you'll find people who look at that year as a time of sweet fellowship, moving the Word and personal growth. You'll also find people who view the same year as a time when the ministry was going downhill, the Word wasn't moving, and everything was going to hell.
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jen-o
i dunno...
i would hate to think that i would never have moved on from twi (with it's limited and flawed doctrine and it's cultic practices, including idolatry)...
even when i was involved with twi, it never consumed my life...
and it never was about vpw or the organization for me...
so i doubt that i would have remained in twi's stagnant pool of water...
there is just sooo much more beyond twi...
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TheHighWay
Wow, is that ever an importance concept!!
I know someone who fell in love, got married, and tied up her finances very quickly with a guy she thought was everything she was looking for, only to find out there wasn't a single thing he had told her about himself that had been the truth!! (not his age, background, work history, financial history, family ties... nothing) In the time it took her to figure that out, he'd eaten through her life savings and put her deeply into debt. She divorced him. But she can't get over him. Why not? Because she can't let go of what he was like in the beginning. He was kind, caring, thoughtful, generous... and she keeps saying she doesn't understand where that man went? She really cannot bring herself to face the fact that this was just a mask hiding the real person inside -- the selfish, callous, mean, violent man she saw after they were married. She keeps looking for a REASON for the change, and will not admit that no change happened, just a lifting of the mask.
That's what folks who cling to their love of the vicster and of twi remind me of... my friend who wants so badly to believe in the dream that she'll deny the reality right in front of her to do it.
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Sudo
Highway,
That's a really good analogy. If things weren't so good at the beginning for everyone who got into TWI, they would have never stuck around would they? I'm sorry about your friend.
sudo
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TheHighWay
Well, bfh's comment about sticking around because you somehow think you can get back to what it what it once was, really struck a chord with me!! I know I did that for YEARS and years and years, not realizing that "what it once was" wasn't attainable because it wasn't real to start with. Just a very profound thought there, bfh!!
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rascal
Oh Wow highway...that is an amazing comparison...and man am I sorry about your friend.
I am reminded of that verse in proverbs about *in vain is the snare set in sight of the prey*
It`s like you said ...the mask hides the person inside....the woman would never have fallen for the fella as he really was.....he had to create a persona that would attract her and disguise his true nature. In twi, it was the scriptures that disguised the snare....that hid the deceitful practices of vpw and the people that he taught.
It HAS to look good in order to disarms ones suspicions, to get someone to lower their guard...the bait HAS to be enticing in order to lure the prey into the trap.. the predator has to be disguised in order to get close enough to strike....otherwise the prey sees the danger and escapes.
I think that it is like oak said, whenever we got into twi...that was when it was *good* and got messed up from there. When we were newbies and being undershepherded, we were being loved and nurtured, the true nature of twi was kept carefully hidden for when we would be older and spiritualy mature enough to handle it.
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TheHighWay
Boy, and that's a really good point too... we each joined the group at the point we were looking for something and thought we'd found it with twi... so for each of us, that starting point is when things (to our eyes) seemed good in twi. And when things got bad for each of us, it seemed a corruption of what we first knew. That is just an amazing truth, Oak. Especially since twi was so good at hiding the facts about their own past, while proclaiming consistency, none of us had much of a concept of what came before...
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rhino
That is a good point Oak ... and since Jim started off with the business comparison ... it seems to extend to that comparison as well.
When you are being sold that new car ... everything is promised, it all looks great and shiny, wow it is exciting. Then you have some mechanical troubles, parts are expensive, repairs become more frequent, and you are still making the big payments. Then you wish you'd read the Consumer Reports more carefully.
Of course with twi the sales never ended. But it did change from happy happy joy joy ... to doulos for the Lord. The hierarchy of the way tree replaced joint heirs, one body, members in particular. With the tree, the money all went to the trunk, and there were only three members.
TWI sold a dream ... and as you moved up the ladder, if you admitted you were not happy or were not seeing miracles and wonders, then you were admitting to failure. So everyone pretended the emperor had clothes on ... but vic never did any miracles either, except getting away with exposing his nakedness to so many.
It became sort of like multi level marketing, the more you had under you, the more successful you were. Except only the top dogs really got any money. The lower dogs got their treats from getting to lord over their flock, and teach and wear special nametags ... it was mostly about ego reward, which really kept the costs down. Mixed in were a lot of people that were deceived, and felt they were working for God.
The special features on the WayMobile were what made the devotees feel proud. TWI came loaded with items the denominations didn't have... JC is not God, Dead are not Alive, Good Friday to Sunday is not 3 days and 3 nights, etc.
Of course it was true that denominations had accepted some pagan traditions, so that opened the door for the vicster. But he was a charlatan from the start, which is the biggest problem with the TWI business. It was all illusion. PFAL was plagiarized research and made up stories, with tons of repetition. The Corps was not a top notch school of Tyrannus, it was a fledgling attempt that was concocted on the fly.
Anyway, Vic's success was in using people ... he sold them a MOGFOT story, got them to stay around for the ego. I suppose he painted a grand enough vision, and organized enough of a structure, to allow his scam to grow pretty big. But it involved so much fraud that it was only held together by more and more lies.
In short, TWI costs were so low because it had cult power ... cult devotees giving even their bodies in service to the king. I would hope I would have gotten out, even if vp were still alive.
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Oakspear
It hit me a few years ago when a poster that we don't see around here too much anymore posted about how she got out when she saw things going down the tubes, legalism, etc...and she was talking about 1974...on the same thread another poster talked about the good times, the good people "hot bible" and "sweet fellowship" and he was talking about 1992
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Ham
Why.. why indeed. Is it possible that some people can NEVER be satisfied?
Of course, it could bring to question the mental stability of those running the place as well..
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Ham
Yep.. never satisfied. One could put together hundreds of classes.. run multitudes through vic's "believer factory".. clean leader's houses, save a "leader" hundreds of dollars by running a phone and fax line to his office, oh.. not for ministry purposes, but for his BUSINESS you find out later. Babysit the kids.. set up the meetings. clean, clean, clean.. donate AV equipment for classes and meetings, and take an hour off work to be able to arrive early, not to mention, continue to hold a second rate job at which they didn't give a DAMN where you had to run off to an hour early..as long as you can *live* and still fork over 15 percent, cue the tapes, all this, with a smile, and without any renumeration, and LITTLE thanks..
no time for "vacations"..
and still, it isn't enough.
I don't know who was fruitier, me or them..
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