The Secret Agenda Society

[doojable]

In 1987 in Dallas there was a huge meeting of all twig coordinators in respnse to John Lynn's first visit to Dallas.

John at the time, had a list of controversial charges against TWI

of which adultery was the most alarming.

Our Limb Coordinator, Britt Lynn, admitted he was opening a can of worms.

He faced to controversy head on, looking for two or three witnesses to verify the charges.

There must have been a hundred or so of us there. It was very tense.

EP - Not to put too blunt a point on it - Bull.

I was in that area during those times...

The leaders were covering their collective arses. They had just gotten done wiping their brows in relief that they didn't get caught.

Well - that's after they changed their underwear...

The infighting behind the scenes was utterly disgusting. One leader told me me that Br1tt was addicted on heroin when he wasn't leading meetings. I can't confirm that, but the point is that either that was true at the time - OR the leaders were backbiting and the gloves were off.

I wasn't at that meeting but I was at many many - too many - other leaders' meetings.

As for adultery.

No one condoned it it any way, shape , or form.

We looked at transcripts from the Christian Family and Sex class.

No doctrinal support there for adulterous behavior.

" I'd rather my kids come home hot and bothered than satisfied and scared"

No one condoned it!??? Are you kidding me? Some of those "leaders" were card-carrying members of the "I Can Handle It Club"

A LOT of those leaders were controlling how information was being dispersed. They needed to make dammmm sure that the tables wouldn't turn on them.

The concern with John Schoenheit's paper on adultery, as I recall,

was the statement that went something like:

'perhaps Dr. Wierwill was wrong about adultery'

Ummmmm - and THIS wasn't a giant red flag? Perhaps? Perhaps?!!!! That implied that someone had heard the victard's take on adultery to begin with. Somehow these leaders wrangled people with misinformation and put the spin on it all so they still came out looking like heros.

They were keeping themselves in place to be the new MOGs.

The concern was that this statement opened the door to further notions

such as

'perhaps Dr was wrong about tithing...

about believing,

about One God...etc."

The concern was that this attacked the integrity of the Word.

The concern.... was that the man behind the curtain would be revealed and their cashcow would die. A lot of these guys were hoping to hide behind that same curtain while no one was looking.

I now believe that forbidding these sorts of questions

allowed doctrinal and practical error to go unchecked.

Now you've got the picture. That was precisely what was going on. The basic doctrinal and practical error had to remain in place so they could swoop in with their "new and improved" God in a Box ministry.

Edited April 29, 2008 by doojable

[GrouchoMarxJr]

I suggest, as we look back with our perspective of today,

that we don't ignore all the good and godly elements.

Thanks for the suggestion...but as hard as I try, I can't remember any good and godly elements...

[now I see]

Our Limb Coordinator, Britt Lynn, admitted he was opening a can of worms.

He faced to controversy head on, looking for two or three witnesses to verify the charges.

There must have been a hundred or so of us there. It was very tense.

I think many in twi turned the "must be coroborated by two or three witnesses" rule on its ear.  In this case, it gives them an out to not deal with the problem which is at red light crisis level, it allows the state leaders to do nothing and then fall all over themselves pointing fingers at eachother.  It never solves the probelm and leaves the rank and file in a state of confusion, something der vey was very good at doing, not caring for the flock and letting them get scattered!

The by two or three witness rule allowed twi to railroad innocent people by orchestrating meetings where two or three big guns would fire accusations at their target, often with a roomfull of people who were coached beforehand, intimidating and shouting at a sole victim, with no support,fielding outrageous accusations .  Often this was a precurser or death march for the unsuspecting target victim, culminating with his dismissal and often being marked and avoided.  This method was a winning combination  sucker punch that twi used regularly to get rid of people or make them grovel.

This also was very effective when a sole victim of rape or sexual predadation told their story, often the act was committed with no one else there besides the perpatrator and victim, therefore no other witnesses supported their accusations against the leader.  No wonder these cases thru the years never saw the light of day.  

It's just not right, twi maliciously used the scriptures as a club to beat the victims down.

[brideofjc]

that's why the topic of the first thread i initiated here at the greasespot was "forgiveness".............imho, the pastoral epistles, as well as numerous scriptures throughout the OT, gospels and the NT, require of persons who assume "leadership positions" in the communities of "god's people", moral and behavioral standards that are quite plainly prescribed for them in order that they may indeed remain, "above reproach"!..........these "moral prescriptions" are therefore "godbreathed", and thus, within the confines of even twi theology, are irrefutable, immutable, and irrevocable, since they reflect the omniscient "mind of god".............this now places vic, the doofus from okie, and every other "leader" i mentioned in the first post on that first thread of mine in september of 2007.at "lagerheads" with god himself..............that's the commitment arena............the commitments to god to live according to the "stricter" demands required of the "lifestyle of leadership" is not between the leaders and those they lead...........it's between the "leaders" and their god, the father of jesus christ!...............the benefits to the believers are the "by-products" of the "leaders'" faithfulness to his/her commitments to god as prescribed quite specifically by god in the pastoral epistles...........if these "leaders" break those commitments, they are responsible to god to repent, and then ask god for forgiveness, as well as reconcile with the believer(s) that were injured or offended...............none of this was ever considered by twi "leaders" let alone attempted!..............this then obviously begs the question, to whom were vic, et al "committed"???................they were certainly arrogantly, self-deluded into thinking they could "hide" these perverted "doctrines" from the "believers".............but did they think they could "hide" from god???..................the answer to that is either "yes", or, they themselves were firmly convinced that indeed, their personal perversions were "godly", and proof of their immense "spiritual maturity" as well as proof that their "precious lives" were a "gift to god's people"!!..............as incredible as it seems, the latter was true then, and still is today for rosie, martindale, and everyone else who accepts vic as a "man'o'gawd"!

Logger heads with God is simply REBELLION to HIS WORD!

if you've read schoenheit's adultery paper, you too must wonder why he was fired for writing it, along with mirabito, hickmann, bo, and smith?..........what was so wrong about that paper??............how many are still "possessed" from reading a paper that any 6th grader could understand?......what were twi and geer seeing that "contradicted" what vic taught??

The WORD calls it CONVICTION! This is why they had to get rid of those people, it made them too uncomfortable, which is good....it showed that they weren't seared with a hot iron at that point...don't know about today, however....

[Estimated Prophet]

Thanks Y'all for the Feedback.

It made for a very stimulating cup of coffee this morning.

I almost spilled as I pictured Ham with his teeth latched on to a 'mogs' ear.

Too Funny.

Pawtucket:

I was aware that the interview was 'simply the facts' regarding those events,

and it was indeed consistently focused in that regard.

I think it was wise to stick to the facts as you did,

which allowed the spirit of God within the reader to provide whatever insight was needed.

I was just wondering what Ralph's take on Christ is now.

I know lots of us love to hear him express his heart on stuff.

I also think Ralph must trust you quite a bit to come to you to tell his story.

Kudos.

I know I have been preachy,

and its because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace,

and our all in all.

Stuff I learned well in 'der Vey.'

( and I believe he was indeed present in the Yak twig.

too bad no one seemed to notice .)

Now I'll address some of these earthly things.

I don't deny there was lots of damage done,

especially in the attempts to do damage control.

But Now I See spelled that out really well.

One of my best friends was skewered in that manner at the Britt Lynn meeting in '87.

( and it was a can of worms )

My friend was asked directly by Britt if he thought Dr was comitting adultery.

I didn't know it at the time, but Britt must have.

But my friend knew personally a young lady who had been bedded.

He had also promised not to tell anyone else.

And there he was, put on the spot, in a very agitated scene.

Being asked to betray her trust regarding some Very Personal Information.

He neither confirmed nor denied,

and was marked and avoided and all of that.

It makes me sick inside just thinking about it.

It was Hell

Lots of good relationships were ruined in those days.

and yes, lots of that was done in the 'name of Jesus.'

God Have Mercy

but please don't let that keep you from pressing in to the True Jesus.

He is still Sweeter than he was the day before.

The only Way out of this mess.

( I don't know about Krishna,

but I hear "it takes so long" to get to know him

so I'm sticking to Jesus)

Britt Lynn is a former Navy Seal.

A real fighter.

I am not saying he is without fault.

None of us are.

I don't approve of everything Britt said and did that night.

But I do admire how he faced the issue head on.

The guy has a lot of guts.

There may have been some covering of his arse,

but he was soon out of a job anyways, as were all the other salaried leaders that were there.

It grieves me how the enemy was able to mess with their lives and ministries.

I will say the Word he taught from the scripture was right on the mark.

He taught Galations 1: 6-10.

How there are some who "trouble" the people

so they can effectively "pervert" the gospel.

"For do I now persuade men or God?

or do I seek to please men?

for if I yet pleased men,

I should not be the servant of Christ "

I don't know for sure "Who" any one else is serving,

but I am intent on serving my Christ Jesus.

Peace

[socks]

But I do admire how he faced the issue head on.

I don't know Brit, but would have to say that's admirable, given the circumstances of those times and the turmoil. It was difficult for many people in many different ways. Shovelling through this stuff wasn't easy, and much less so for anyone in the middle of it. Any effort to "do the right thing" - that's good. Especially that in the midst of a lot of anger and hurt, many people responded vigorously and still with some restraint.

Edited April 30, 2008 by socks

[outandabout]

Penworks: "BTW - I was able to leave hq and twi not long after R.D...but that's another story"

That would be a good story I'd like to hear.

[rhino]

Penworks: "BTW - I was able to leave hq and twi not long after R.D...but that's another story"

That would be a good story I'd like to hear.

Yeah, I like stories, and it is almost bedtime ... :)

But really, the more stories the better the overall picture gets painted ... after 20 years, it is maybe easier to look back more clearly.

I don't feel I have unresolved issues much, but more clarity on those times is still interesting, and does help understanding those times, and life in general. Every story seems to offer another aspect that is of interest.

[brideofjc]

One bit of info to add to this thread:

In '87 after I'd left HQ and was far far away, I told the leader of the first offshoot that unlike him, I wasn't comfortable with assuming that the keys to research, etc. that VP taught were right. For instance, I wondered what the word "scripture" really referred to in that verse that says all scripture is given by inspiration of God, etc.

I told him that as far as I knew, the cannon of the Bible wasn't established at the time that verse was written so how could "scripture" in that verse refer to the whole Bible as we have it today? He said he didn't have time to do all that research...

That's one reason why I had a problem with "offshoots." So I went to college, read lots of books, and got a degree in English.

The Greek word simply means "writings" which would include OT and the new forming NT, even though they weren't calling it that yet.

[penworks]

Well, my story is off this topic, so I'll save it for another time...

Edited May 1, 2008 by penworks

[Ron G.]

I remember Britt Lynn. I seem to recall him as a man of integrity who I respected and liked very much. I also remember when he was summarily fired and replaced by Paul M. as LC of Texas.

[rhino]

It seems there was some spying on who was doing what, after the twi break up in 1986. Apparently those that recognized the revenue stream, and that were prepared to venture out on their own, were in some sort of power struggle.

Maybe this is covered here earlier, but I seem to recall a guy I knew being sent to check out what the different groups were doing. Maybe that was the wayGB way back then. As I recall it was brit sending this guy out to CA to spy, but maybe not. (I may be confusing this with some deprogramming stuff that went on a few years earlier in WV, same guys )

In any case, think of the free for all ... everyone playing God's super hero to keep the great mystery alive ... with the major perk of being able to suck in beaucoup bucks from well trained 15%ers. Then there were those that got promoted by staying with the party line ... while the maybe more sane of the bunch (like penworks) had their moment of clarity and walked back into the "real world" and made a new and better life there.

I'm not sure where the secret agenda society broke out ... many stuck together, then some claimed they had seen the light, others later started new splinters and down played the significance of the adultery and other garbage ... shouldn't there be a flow chart here somewhere, so we can follow how all this has played out?

[skyrider]

I'm not sure where the secret agenda society broke out ... many stuck together, then some claimed they had seen the light, others later started new splinters and down played the significance of the adultery and other garbage ... shouldn't there be a flow chart here somewhere, so we can follow how all this has played out?

........a flow chart?

Well, as they say....."it" flows DOWNHILL.

And, who were the *right-n-left hand men' of wierwille??.......martindale and ge-er. According to credible sources, martindale was taught this adultery stuff from vpw 'to be a greater leader/lover of god's people.' And, with that 'trust factor' between wierwille and ge-er.......surely, ge-er would be one tier down the flow chart like martindale, right?

Plus, add the nifty little 'shake-n-bake anyone who reads scho3nheit's adultery paper'.......tends to add culpability and one who is a major player on board. Where WalterC fits into the mix......I don't know. But it sure raises my eyebrows to see how he 'mishandled' this piece of research. Heck, who would have thought that writing a paper on adultery was FORBIDDEN.......SINCE IT WAS CONSIDERED NEW RESEARCH..??

Of course, one can't forget Howard..........and Don??

This flow chart would tend to "flow" according to access, association and accountability......in accordance with the next lower level. Of course, the podcast gave some insight into the yak twig.......so there ya go. With those names, the chart starts to take shape.

No wonder it was.......THE SECRET AGENDA SOCIETY.

[Linda Z]

Rhino, I don't know about other parts of the country, but there was apparently spying going on around HQ.

I had resigned from HQ staff in 11/85 but got talked into staying until 3/86. I left 1 week before PoP was read to the Corps (and just happened to be on the Corps hook-up that night--holy moley!).

I don't remember how much later it was when Walter C got the ax, but after he did, I went to a fellowship at his house with some other ex-staff from St. Marys. The next day, some of the people still on staff who were at that fellowship got booted from their jobs.

Word was that someone (someone I'd known a long time :() would take one of her kids to the little playground next door to Walter's house on fellowship nights, take down names and license plate numbers, and report back on who was there.

Pretty sad!

Edited May 2, 2008 by Linda Z

[WordWolf]

I remember Britt Lynn. I seem to recall him as a man of integrity who I respected and liked very much. I also remember when he was summarily fired and replaced by Paul M. as LC of Texas.

That was the famous "line in the sand" time, circa 1989, when lcm demanded an oath of allegiance, and fired

any leader who said they were loyal to the ministry, but absolute allegiance to lcm as the leader.

(They claimed the right to think for themself, and to identify error if they saw it.)

[rhino]

........a flow chart?

Well, as they say....."it" flows DOWNHILL.

Ha ...

I was wondering how much of "it" they swallowed before leaving by choice or being ushered out the door.

Did they accept

• adultery was not wrong
  
• "don't even read the adultery paper"
  
• "willing to spy on friends"
  
• "sign the loyalty oath"
  
• "accept lcm as mog"
  
• sell your house no debt
  
• etc.
  

So you have people flowing out at those different points ...

Does their new splinter they formed require abs, teach basic same doctrine, never really repent for twi harm they were part of, still revere vpw, etc.?

It seems much of the yak twig stuck around ... Gear grabbed the rights to piffle for europe? ... the other wayfers kept the US properties, those down another level branched out to start collecting on their own.

Some perhaps just started teaching on their own ... trying to offer an alternative without dogma or without trying to be enriched.

[Al Poole]

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee pullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

If you could just read it in the original!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wing]

snip...............

I know I have been preachy,

and its because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace,

and our all in all.

Stuff I learned well in 'der Vey.'

snip..............

Gee, I dunno EP; kinda wish I had been a part of 'der Vey' that you claim.

But I wasn't. (I'd been assigned to way international hq, like. . . forever; -because vp thought that "hq needed my heart"- and I am quoting his very own words to me there.)

'der Vay' that I knew didn't rely so much on Jesus. Jesus was mostly the 'name' that we did stuff in. Or the name that we would use to command stuff to happen in (especially when that god inspired thought faced some uncooperative reality that we'd have to command to go away "in the name of...").

It's been a while for me, so forgive that this description may be a little rusty, but I'll try to recall it. . .

Wasn't it more like this? '. . . God was in Christ in me, and now IIIIIIIIII gotta do all of this god stuff, -because after all he has no hands but my hands- (and I better get it done, and get it done right, or some someone's gonna have a helluva reproof spree on me). . . and wasn't there some doctrine about the absent christ? that effectively meant I'd better work much harder to believe to bring stuff to pass? and wasn't it all on the believer to make it happen? and wasn't thanking God essentially telling god what it was we were gonna believe for? and wasn't Jesus part in the process "in the name of", seeing that he was absent?

Jesus had simply been put on a shelf. In some respects, Jesus was like a magic wand, to use the power in his name as needed to complete that will of god thing. Or maybe like a 'get out of jail free card' (you ever play the monoply game?) to use his name to maybe stop some bad thing from happening.

Long after I'd left 'der Vey'; there came a moment one fine morning, when it eventually got through my thick head that I did not even know Jesus in 'der Vey'.

No, 'der Vey' that I was part of abused Jesus as much, if not more, as it abused anybody and everybody else.

[T-Bone]

...I'm not sure where the secret agenda society broke out ... many stuck together, then some claimed they had seen the light, others later started new splinters and down played the significance of the adultery and other garbage ... shouldn't there be a flow chart here somewhere, so we can follow how all this has played out?

This is the current flowchart for TWI [note the convergence of all activity toward Rosie in the center].

[doojable]

This is the current flowchart for TWI [note the convergence of all activity toward Rosie in the center].

Don't forget the splinter groups:

[Watered Garden]

Wing, that was a truly wonderful post, about Jesus. I felt the same way.

A few years ago, I went to a 4HIM concert. They kept talking about Jesus. I started feeling creepy; these socalled Christians were talking to JESUS! Didn't they know they weren't supposed to do that? Didn't they understand that is a name you pray in or command in, but not Someone you TALK to?

Then one of the members of the group prayed TO Jesus! A powerful prayer full of meaning. I listened with my head and my heart. And such warmth and comfort I felt wash over me! That night I began to reacquaint myself with my Lord and Savior. It truly changed my life.

WG

And on a couple other posts -

Oh, and now I know why spiders give me the creeps!

EEEWWWW!

[rhino]

Thanks T-Bone and Doojable ... much clearer now ...

Maybe I need a timeline ...

• 1984? lcm humiliates twi with AOS ... football player in tights with girlfriends
  
• 1986 POP and follow up rev meeting ... all sane people left (cuz that is when I left )
  
• 1987? people excommunicated just for reading the "devilish" adultery paper
  
• 1989 oath of allegiance to lcm as mogfart
  
• 199? lcm makes a deal ... becomes ceo of Home Depot
  
• 2002 GSC opens ... hundreds get possessed by reading posts ....
  
• 2008 v2p2 starts way corpse 2 ... the dead are alive now
  

then on the bottom side of the line ... when the splinter men branched of and started collecting their own abs

But anyway ... The Secret Agenda Society really revealed their roots were not in da wurhd when they chose obvious vicster error over any semblance of humility to reproof. It really was a den of iniquity, and they didn't want to give it up.

Vic at least built the web (of deceit) ... these current folks are just inherited it ...

Edited May 3, 2008 by rhino

[skyrider]

Retooling the Old Testament and the 4 Gospels out of our "New Testament" understanding is a huge mistake, as we've seen. If reduced to the statement- "for our learning" - that statement carries a question - "what are we actually learning?" or :) ?

This bears repeating.

From where I sit today.......of all the "pfal keys" in wierwille's class, NONE unlocked THE DOOR to my lord and savior Jesus Christ as mediator between God and men.

[Twinky]

...Jesus was mostly the 'name' that we did stuff in. Or the name that we would use to command stuff to happen in (especially when that god inspired thought faced some uncooperative reality that we'd have to command to go away "in the name of...").

...Jesus had simply been put on a shelf. In some respects, Jesus was like a magic wand, to use the power in his name as needed to complete that will of god thing. Or maybe like a 'get out of jail free card' (you ever play the monoply game?) to use

...No, 'der Vey' that I was part of abused Jesus as much, if not more, as it abused anybody and everybody else.

A few years ago, I went to a 4HIM concert. They kept talking about Jesus. I started feeling creepy; these socalled Christians were talking to JESUS! Didn't they know they weren't supposed to do that? Didn't they understand that is a name you pray in or command in, but not Someone you TALK to?

Jesus? Isn't that the name of some big fat devil spirit?

Oh! You meant Jesus Christ? Oh, not sure he's here today.

(BTW no chapter and verse was ever presented for saying there was a big fat DS named Jesus.)

So has the "secret agenda" moved on now, from considering adultery to considering the disappearance of Jesus Christ?

[brideofjc]

Jesus? Isn't that the name of some big fat devil spirit?

Oh! You meant Jesus Christ? Oh, not sure he's here today.

(BTW no chapter and verse was ever presented for saying there was a big fat DS named Jesus.)

So has the "secret agenda" moved on now, from considering adultery to considering the disappearance of Jesus Christ?

That's a common belief outside of TWI as well. It's in Galatians 3...."another gospel."

Gee, I dunno EP; kinda wish I had been a part of 'der Vey' that you claim.

But I wasn't. (I'd been assigned to way international hq, like. . . forever; -because vp thought that "hq needed my heart"- and I am quoting his very own words to me there.)

'der Vay' that I knew didn't rely so much on Jesus. Jesus was mostly the 'name' that we did stuff in. Or the name that we would use to command stuff to happen in (especially when that god inspired thought faced some uncooperative reality that we'd have to command to go away "in the name of...").

It's been a while for me, so forgive that this description may be a little rusty, but I'll try to recall it. . .

Wasn't it more like this? '. . . God was in Christ in me, and now IIIIIIIIII gotta do all of this god stuff, -because after all he has no hands but my hands- (and I better get it done, and get it done right, or some someone's gonna have a helluva reproof spree on me). . . and wasn't there some doctrine about the absent christ? that effectively meant I'd better work much harder to believe to bring stuff to pass? and wasn't it all on the believer to make it happen? and wasn't thanking God essentially telling god what it was we were gonna believe for? and wasn't Jesus part in the process "in the name of", seeing that he was absent?

Jesus had simply been put on a shelf. In some respects, Jesus was like a magic wand, to use the power in his name as needed to complete that will of god thing. Or maybe like a 'get out of jail free card' (you ever play the monoply game?) to use his name to maybe stop some bad thing from happening.

Long after I'd left 'der Vey'; there came a moment one fine morning, when it eventually got through my thick head that I did not even know Jesus in 'der Vey'.

No, 'der Vey' that I was part of abused Jesus as much, if not more, as it abused anybody and everybody else.

Didn't you know that this is why it is called

MASTER-card?