He and their 16 yo son are really great friends and would truly enjoy being “brothers”.
They would probably pay for his driver’s ed. Also—something we will not be able to do for a long time. (Hubby’s been unemployed since July, and in addition wasn’t very wise with the savings we were living off of, so now we have a bunch of financial problems we wouldn’t have to be going through—enough said on that. I don’t want to go there in a public forum)
As a matter of fact, just about anything he would need they would take care of—they would treat him as their own—they are that kind of people and they LOVE Isaac.
Isaac loves them. He loves their lively conversations. They are all competitive arguers, and love to get into debates. He is a rational thinker and they are too.
Again, I have to admit, I have been seeing my own limitations—not from lack of intelligence or even ability on my part, but because I procrastinate, and haven’t seemed to be able to beat that weakness on my part. Even when I know it may hinder my child’s education. And if I don’t do what I am supposed to do, it would hinder my son’s
education. That should be enough for me to get past it, but I haven’t gotten past it.
Ben would benefit from better one-on-one time with me, although he’d miss Isaac terribly—he adores Isaac.
When I ran the idea past him, he definitely was interested—although he didn’t like the idea of not being with us. (It would be long stretches between seeing him, because this family is really busy—it could be more than a month in between seeing him)
But I could see his mind running with it.
The point my friend kept saying is that I have to do what’s best for Isaac. It’s possible this IS what is best for him.
But he’s MY SON!!! I don’t want him to go away yet! I’m gonna have a hard enough time when he has to go away to college! The more I think about it, the more I have been crying. Because this would really benefit him, but I would lose him sooner!
Because, to be honest, it wouldn’t be for just one year, ninth grade—it would end up being all of high school. And what hurts is that he would conform well into their family.
And he WOULD benefit—and he would probably end up in a much better situation in his adult life than he would if he was with us. BUT HE’S MINE! I waited many years and many miscarriages to have this child! I fought with my husband for the privilege of home schooling him because I really love being with him. I have loved every age more than the last. He is a really great young man—anyone who meets him, just loves him, and comments on how responsible he is.
When Isaac saw that I had been crying, he admitted he didn’t like the idea that he would have to be so far away from us. Ben overheard and asked about it and was in tears about Isaac going too. But Isaac and I know the benefits may far outweigh our family staying intact. Isaac loves us very much, but he knows this might be best for him—even though he really doesn’t want to be away from us for such long periods of time.
This would be so much easier to decide on, if we all lived close—I would drive him to their house every day. I would welcome the help—if nothing more than to have some time alone with Ben.
I haven’t run this past my hubby. I don’t know how he will react. He is in a deep depression about our situation, but I really think he doesn’t realize a lot of it is of his making. He’s seeing this unemployment as unfair and what has he done wrong. Again, I don’t want to get into it here, but he has made a lot of bad decisions, that he sees only as himself being a victim. He is depressed, and he makes horrible comments against himself. When he hears about this, he will react in one of two ways. Be offended that the friends are trying to interfere, or go into his ‘poor me, I can’t provide, here you might as well have my son’. I’m not sure he will see that this is a situation where maybe we SHOULD look at this from a viewpoint of Isaac’s best interests.
If you are still reading, what do you think? Would you let your son go this young?
Psalm, there is no way anyone can totally advise you on this one to the end of your decision and I get that you know that. Experiences, ideas, suggestions are what you're after.
Every family has unique dynamics, needs, issues, strenghts and weakness's, hence what might work for one quite possibly would be a disaster for another.
I can and will pray with you on this most difficult decision.
My eldest had an opportunity to move out and live with another family at about your son's age, she was 16. It was absolutly NOT for academic purposes, but to get she and I apart, to give her a place to grieve the death of her father, to give her some differant space. She took about 30 seconds to say YES! <_<
I spent many hours, days, weeks! tossing the idea around, trying to do what was best for her, for our entire family.
I chose to not do it. But having said that, please hear me when I say that was US! Not necessarily you and your situation. I can not say if I'd have done it the other way if it were for her academic betterment; I just don't know.
The offer, as it were, caused me to stop and consider so many things, to really take a hard and painful look at some needs. It wasn't a fun ride, as yours isn't.
You will make the right decision, you have to know that. You're his mama, that's your job.
And if you are entertaining any thoughts that you're a lousy mama cuz you're giving this serious thought, cut that out!
Just finished reading about your situation and my heart goes out to you..................I tried to put myself in your shoes and if it were me this would be my thinking.......I wouldn't do it, reason being he would be growing up over at your friend's house and you mentioned you wouldn't get to see him for maybe a month or more over several years, you'd never get those years back. Also all we really have is "now" you can't predict what's going to happen in the future. I'd keep my family together and work with the situation at hand as best as I could, but like Shellon said you have to go with what's best for you, I'm curious, what about enrolling him in a public school close to home?
I'll be praying with you Psalmie. There are advantages and costs to every situation. You might want to make a T chart. Draw a line down the middle of a sheet of paper. On one side, list the advantages to Issac. One the other, the disadvantages. Then give the advantages and disadvantages of this situation to your family (Ben, you, your husband, as well as Issac). That may help you see the situation in greater detail.
I wondered the same as Cowgirl about Regular school. I know it flies in the face of the home school you spent years at but it does have some advantages as well as disadvantages. Maybe it's time ,that this would be an option for you. You would need to decide if that trade would be worth having your family in tact. I bet by now you have taught Isaac a good solid base to draw from when he needs it. Also you should qualify for some programs to get any testing you need done for the boys. Please look into this, you paid taxes for many years ,thats one of the things your dollars supports. I'll be praying for you and family. I know I'll regret saying this but I miss my pie throwing piggy friend...........
This is a tough call. Offhand I would suggest you let the other people tutor Isaac without actually living with them.
I have a friend named Susan who is a retired high school math teacher. Due to my inability to do things with a mathematical precision (anything beyond fingers and toes and I'm lost) I agreed to let Susan tutor Andrew for his homeschooling in math. Twice a week she would come and pick Andrew up and keep him for about 3 hours. It didn't cost anything...I just gave her husband, John, written permission to come thru my land and hunt on an adjoining property that's landlocked.
It all worked out very well as by the end of the year, Andrew was doing college level calculus at age 13.
As sort of an experiment, last year he enrolled in the public school and is now at the top of his class.
What I'm saying here is I understand your concern and how Isaac would benefit from the outside instruction as did Andrew. What I don't exactly understand is WHY it's necessary for him to actually live there. Even the public school doesn't keep him there 24/7, as much as I'm sure they'd love to.
Since it's just about summer, you have some time to mull this over. I think it needs to be seriously considered befor a final decision is made.
Remember, there's a lot more to schooling than "readin' writin' and 'rithmetic". There are things that only YOU, as the parent can provide in the atmosphere of your own family. Your son is NOT chattel property of society at large nor is he to be a subset of a "village".
He's YOUR son.
Once again, WHY must he live there? What is the purpose of this? Does this "former high school teacher and stickler for good education" have some agenda beyond teaching Isaac basic academics? I'd be a little (maybe more than a little) suspect, knowing the guy's been trained in the public school model of education. I don't know how steeped he is in it, but maybe you should find out.
Here is an excerpt from an essay entitled "The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought?" I recently read by John Taylor Gatto...
"The structure of American schooling, 20th century style, began in 1806 when Napoleon's amateur soldiers beat the professional soldiers of Prussia at the battle of Jena. When your business is selling soldiers, losing a battle like that is serious. Almost immediately afterwards a German philosopher named Fichte delivered his famous "Address to the German Nation" which became one of the most influential documents in modern history. In effect he told the Prussian people that the party was over, that the nation would have to shape up through a new Utopian institution of forced schooling in which everyone would learn to take orders.
So the world got compulsion schooling at the end of a state bayonet for the first time in human history; modern forced schooling started in Prussia in 1819 with a clear vision of what centralized schools could deliver:
1.Obedient soldiers to the army;
2.Obedient workers to the mines;
3.Well subordinated civil servants to government;
4.Well subordinated clerks to industry"
5.Citizens who thought alike about major issues. "
To see the end results of this in the United States today, just flip on your teevee and watch the news.
I may be overstating all this or maybe I'm missing or misunderstanding something (it is very late and I'm very tired), but it's something to consider and I'd be VERY wary of allowing my son to be raised by another under the guise of education.
I'm baffled here as to why someone who is professionally trained(You stated he was a high school educator) would deny the reality of learning disabilities. Dyslexia is very real. Acknowledgment of his condition should play a major role in deciding how he is educated. It needs to be accepted and specifically addressed.
I'm sure this would be an easier decision if "geography" wasn't clouding the situation.
I don't like to give "advise" so I'll merely suggest that you discuss the situation with someone associated with the public school in your area. They may even have some sort of diagnostic or quantifying procedure already in place for your type of situation. If nothing else, you'll at least know you have covered all the possibilities.
On a slightly different note, you stated he may be pursuing a college education after high school. It might benefit him on a personal level to learn to adapt to learning in a social environment while he is still at home with a family that can help him navigate through some of the pitfalls he is sure to encounter after being home schooled. Don't think of it as the end of your home schooling.
Think of it a "pre" college program with a personal tutor(you) right there on site.
Lots of good comments, above. As others have said, as Mommy, so much will depend on you, and you have obviously been doing your best, with Isaac's interests in mind. You will have my prayers, as well.
I used to "not believe" in certain mental or emotional disabilities, myself, and in some ways it hindered me from being a better parent /friend / brother, but there is a ditch on the other side of the road, as well. For example, when we label and write-off people in various ways. My sense is that your term "learning difference" is a healthy and sound one.
I have friends with a two year old who is very different from his brother, and it is not too strong a word to say he is profoundly less developed in certain areas than his brother was at that age. He's currently undergoing testing and will have someone visit the house for an hour each week to work with him and his mom to help him. Like Isaac, he's a marvelous child, adored by his parents and all who know him. But it's hard to deny that if things go as they have been, he will not be ready for school at the same age as the majority of kids.
As our three daughters grew up, we homeschooled our younger two for a time. Ultimately, we realized we would have been better to have homeschooled our oldest, and sent the other two to public schools. (Hind sight!) The other two didn't do as well without the structure and feedback that traditional schools provided. We did see that after a while, but the oldest, who didn't respond well to being shoehorned through a program, probably would have done better being a round peg in a round hole.
There are more than two options, here, and some of the posts may give you help in seeking an alternative, perhaps, that you've yet to think of. As I said, there were a lot of thoughtful posts, above. It warms my heart that one aspect of the GS community allows for this kind of sharing / exploration of difficulties.
Sometimes our situations seem like such trainwrecks that we have to go to triage mode, and just make progress in the ways that seem most important, and leave other conditions alone for a while. I was in that mode for some time, and am still working on the remaining conditions! Suffice it to say, though, that my prayers will be for your husband's recovery as well. It can certainly be rough to be Dad and unemployed.
If I can be of help in any way, feel free to PM me.
I don't know much about home schooling, but here in Ohio there are programs through the county that home schoolers can take advantage of, for example, my friend at church who home schools is part of a loose organization of home schoolers, but it was the county that tested and treats her children for speech problems. Perhaps you could find out about getting your kids tested for dyslexia via a similar route?
I would find out how these people discipline their own children before I sent one of mine to live with them. Just a thought.
I would have to have a real big serious heart-to-heart with a teacher who denied all "disabilities". Mr. Garden has seen kids who need medication to be able to sit still in class and kids who just don't want to do the work. He has had autistic kids in his classes because he is the only teacher there who gets through to them. He has had Down's syndrome kids who did better for him than for anybody. Yet he is not a softie and does not allow anyone to slack off. Perhaps this gentleman simply feels a learning uniqueness is not necessarily to be used as an excuse. (Not at all implying that Isaac would).
There's a book/class on different ways of learning. Have you read it? "Eight Ways of Learning" I think it is. Mr. Garden took this seminar several years ago and loved it. Kids learn visually, musically, tactilely, all sort of ways.l It might be fun to look at and see the different ways your boys learn. And if this teacher hasn't seen it, he might like it too.
How can sending your child to be schooled by a couple who will deny his special needs in the educational arena possible be good for him?
As a person with a teaching degree, albeit an old one, I am appalled that these so-called educators are still living in the dark ages.
As a person who has mild dyslexia I am aware of the challenges that particular brain function can cause.
Dyslexia is not caused by moods, or anything else that the individual has control over. Isaac's bran simply sees and processes information differently than many other peoples. That is a problem in a society where so much of what we do is tied in some form or another to the written page.
Secondly, your son himself doesn't want to be gone from you. While stress doesn't cause dyslexia it certainly acerbates the condition.
Being unemployed and strapped financially doesn't mean that you are not qualified to meet your sons needs
this is the link to the Foundation dealing with dyslexia. They should be able to help in finding a testing service you can afford or that will be provided free of charge.
In addition, while your your public school district may not be where you want your son , it may be worth sending him for a semester so that they can do an evaluation. Most districts provide this service at little or no cost to the parents or a reasonable payment schedule can be worked out.
Finally never forget that the most important thing for a child is loving parents and siblings who let the child know that no matter what they are with him 100%. You and your husband and his brother are the only one who can provide this. Maybe down the road, say his junior or senior year sending him to your friends might be feasible. But IMO not now, not when a firm diagnosis hasn't been made ( there are at least six forms of dylexia each adffecting a different area of brain activity), a plan for dealing with whatever problems there are is not yet in place. and the stress of being in high school for the first time makes the familial love and support more critical than ever.
What ever you do my thoughts and prayers are with you
In my town a lot of homeschoolers go to the local Scottish Rite Hospital for free testing and evaluation.
I'd also like to mention that while your oldest son has the opportunity for a "brother" in his friend while living with this family - that there is a flesh and blood brother at home who needs his big-brother.
That said, only your family can decide what is best in this situation. Perhaps you can make this decision on a temporary basis at first and re-evaluate after 1 month, then again after another 3 months.
I'm sure you'll find a solution that fits and serves everyone.
Anyway, my friends don’t really believe in “learning disabilities”. I actually prefer the term learning difference because my boys are plenty intelligent enough...
In the harsh light of morning (and coffee) I see that I got off on a tangent in my previous post. Although I still think it's valid, I should add that your spark of intution in the above quote tells ME....very loudly...that you are vastly more qualified to teach your children than those who "don't believe in learning disabilities".
This is just my opinion, but I see, all too often, where intelligence is commonly measured by the childs ability to conform to societies norms, when, in fact, brilliance and genius are found in the flaws to that conformity.
That's just my take on this and your mileage may vary (as they say).
Edited to remind you that our prayers are with you, but you should already know that.
Okay salmie - you may not like my gut response. _ No - Hell no.
I have an LD daughter - dyslexia etc....and while you may see a lot positives - I can tell you as a teacher and parent...no one watches out for their kid better than a loving parent!!!!!!!!
My daughter has awesome friends--awesome parents with whom I am very close--but there is no way I am walking away from it. If you would like my phone number I can tell you some bonafide clinical reasons why it is not a good idea psychologically.
I can tell you this. It will make a certain kind of memory in his brain you will not anticipate. Ten years - 20 years from now it will rip you both up that you were seperated...and it was optional---not life or death.
I'd say no, he stays with you and your family, at home. Public school, and do additional stuff to help him. Work on your financial situation, get some outside help if you can to help with your situation. Easy to give advice - but that would be the long and short of it, based on what you wrote.
My son spelled "phonetic" in middle and most of high school. He'd study, pass tests, do okay, then write "the kat wus big an flufy" in a sentence. He's very intelligent, creative, and has graduated college. We were told phonetic spelling was something he'd deal with as time went on and he did. He's still not the greatest speller, and when he's in a hurry, he uses short hand - which is how we learned his mind works in that regard. Interestingly, he's very good at math.
Thank you all. Today was a hard day. I have prayed, gotten angry, gotten defensive, looked inward, thinking of myself as a failure, then yelling (In my mind! LOL)
I AM HiS MOTHER!!!! GOD DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE IN GIVING THIS CHILD TO ME!
I am wondering what they are really thinking now, too. Are they saying, "you are ruining this child, give him to us so we can fix him" ? Or are they making this offer because they like this kid, they know that 16 yo is gonna miss his older brother, who is going to college next year, lets try to get someone to fill the void. Or is it just because they heard me say i am struggling in teaching these guys, and they want to help me fix things.
I HAVE considered public school--or at least the public school's homeschool program. I enjoy having him home. He enjoys being home. Isaac IS different--always has been. He didn't fit in well with his peers even when he was little. Maybe the other kids found him "odd", but the parents always liked him. He hasn't "clicked" with most public school kids, he doesn't have the desire to wear what they wear and play what they play just because everybody else does. He's more mature than most of them I have met. He gets along well with other homeschoolers unless they are "crowd followers".
As his mother, i think this is a great trait--he walks to the beat of a different drum! lol. I also know when he goes away to college, he will probably have a bit of culture shock. But i also believe he is strong enough to handle it-- as he would be if i DO put him into public school--he's not going to get talked into drugs or anything-- he has his own convictions. He has a stength of discipline my hubby or I never had in high school. He has the strength to be a Daniel, or a Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego.
I'm serious. If he were dragged awy to another country like those young men were, he has that kind of strength, that he would not bow.
That is my Isaac. That is what these friends see in him. I see the same in their son--the one closest to Isaac in age. I trust these guys to raise my children, should we die. But we are not dead, and this is a choice.
But i also have a hard time with their adamency (is that a word?) against learning differences. The man who was a high school teacher was in a small private christian school--I think for only two years. But he's still a stickler for good education, for doing the SAt tests several times, and for good ability in writing. Isaac is NOT a good writer-- that's where the dyslexia really gets in the way. And i believe that is where problems might come in-- they might try to push him to do something he may NOT be able to do. The man has started on me a couple times in trying to tell me where i am doing things wrong. He also has the maturity to back down and not risk the friendship, so the discussion doesn't go too far. But these are the kind of people who also say antidepressants are unnecessary. I think they are uncomfortable with weakness. They are very driven, competitive people. (I want to give a couple examples, but i think I am being too long-winded as it is.
I have wondered what his SAT will be if there isn't leeway given in the timed testing. He knows his facts, but does absolutely horrible in times tests. That is just one of the aspects.
I don't want to miss acknowledging any of you who posted, but I know how hard it is to read long posts! Shellon, Cowgirl, Purpledays, Zshot, Waysider, WhiteDove, Thank you all so much for your input-- I've somewhat answered ya, but haven't mentioned your name when i did. I hear ya all, and I will need to reread everything here again! I love you guys! Mr Feathers-- yep, you'll live to regret that-- just when you least expect it!
Ron, the reason he'd have to live with them is how far apart we live. It takes 1 1/2 hours to get to their house during non-rush hours. If I were driving him back and forth, in the mornings, during rush hour, it would take 2 or more hours to get him there-- them I'd still have to get home. can't afford it either in time or gas money.
Mo, I didn't know about the six different types of dyslexia, but i believe it. the ways i worked with Isaac are not working with Ben. I will take yours, and everyone else who suggested it, advice in looking into having him tested-- i stopped persuing it years ago when i discovered it would be as much as $3000 without health insurance (or more).
Dooj, I cried again when you said that about Isaac's real life brother. Ben thinks the world of Isaac. Isaac's sentiments are not always the same-- Ben really can be a pesky little brother and i have to call him off Isaac sometimes! lol! This couple has made it clear that they want me to make this decision as a one year comminment (school year).
And Washnwear, I have wondered too about the long-term repercussions. I have considered asking you a hundred times if you can point me in the right direction concerning the dyslexia stuff.
Socks, Isaac is a phonetic speller, too, but excellent in math. He wants to be an engineer! His "salvation" in spelling is that he can memorize so well. Ben is having a much tougher time, because he has almost NO memorization ability. Plus he is such a kinetic learner he HATES book learning-- he loves science because i try to do everything hands on.
WG, I haven't read that book, but I read one about the Visual, auditory, kinetic--and one other that slips my mind! I haven't read too much on teaching the teacher books lately--I read a million in the first few years. I think I'll look that one up at the library. I do think this family does think i use the dyslexia as an excuse. And to be honest, sometimes i wonder if I am, too. Like I didn't give Isaac grades for spelling--I just made him correct his mistakes and quizzed him on the missed words a few days later.
Dan, yeah, we are in GA now. I think we know each other, but I haven't contacted you yet! LOL Guess I better now that I've said this. . . Isaac sounds a lot like your oldest--doesn't appreciate being shoehorned into things.
I s'pose i oughta stop for now--Some of ya might not even still be here. Sorry for talking so much. I've faced a lot of tough decisions in my life, but I'd have to say this might be one of the toughest!
Because I don't think it will be easy to tell them no, if that is what we say.
I've read your post and the one thing that stood out to me was that these 'educators' do not believe in learning disabilities.
For the past 8 years I have been a tutor for a specified reading program and centre. As well, for the past 10 years, I have been a part-time teacher in the public school board.
My specific training has been in reading and learning to teach children to read who have very specific reading difficulties. Over the years and the hundreds of students I and my boss have worked with, few have actually been dyslexic (though, I'm not disagreeing with this diagnosis, nor am I saying that dyslexia is not a valid learning disability). Often reading difficulties, of which spelling difficulties incur, are due to poor phonological memory or slow memory recall or a combination of these as well weak sound manipulation abilities and articulatory issues.
The man I work for has his Doctorate in Education and did his dissertation on a specific reading program called Phonographix by Read America. We no longer use this specific program in our centre...yet we still do apply many of the same principles to teach children/adolescents to read.
I know for a fact that there is a text book for this program and you could probably access any of these materials via the internet.
You can PM me if you want more information.
All the best.. and personally... I think you're on the way to the right decision regarding your son. I believe that staying at home with his own family will have a far more positive impact on him than getting this so called 'better education'.
The thing that jumped out at me this time reading the posts, is the prejudice against learning disabilities AND antidepressants. Are these guys Scientologists?
Sometimes antidepressants can be the difference between life and death. And learning "disabilities" are real, if misperceived many times. Ron G, I think it was, wrote about the standardization of education and the bad things about it.
Your Isaac sounds like someone I'd like to call a friend. My hope and prayer for him is that he never gets crammed into a mold!
Other than that, I dunno. IF you would like, I'll discuss this with my very educated educator husband, who has a great deal of common sense.
I do think getting Isaac tested for dyslexia if you can do it free through the state or something would be a good idea.
Maybe your friend can help you, Psalmie, while you go the route you choose. Sounds like they do know some things about educating, are there practical things that would help?
IMO the school system supports the child. What's good for the child? It's difficult to make one school work for everyone. You might try a mix of things, to make it work.
Another thing - he has a long life ahead, as do you. :) Make the goal to get him what he needs and at the same time to get the boxes checked, ie through high school and looking at the next step of education, that's right for him. That's the point in the long run, I think. When he's 30, he'll be in a different world, mixing with people - who knows how and where? At this point, get 'er done and get him going in the right direction. For 4 years - I would think that's gotta be there, at home, with his family. Anyhoo....kids are all so different, we're all so different at that young age. What's "different" today will be something else a year older, y'know? He may develop in ways you can't see yet, in a year or two.
I can't add much but two things occur: firstly, sooner or later he is going to have to leave home and in a carefully controlled environment with known and trusted support would be easier than leaving to go to college.
Secondly, what does he really want? You've said he is a mature lad and can make up his own mind. Perhaps now is the time, if you haven't already done so, to sit down with him and discuss his long-term goals (if any) and how he would like to achieve them. He is definitely old enough to be involved in this sort of decision and his future education does need his maximum participation. If he is unhappy with your friends his education will not thrive and neither will he; but to thrive he may need to be out of the "home" box and may be ready to stretch out.
Over the summer vacation period - would it be helpful if he went and stayed with your friends for a couple of weeks? You would both have an opportunity for a "free look" at him being away.
It's a difficult decision - but only death is completely irreversible. You can change your mind in six months if you make the wrong decision now.
But i also have a hard time with their adamency (is that a word?) against learning differences. The man who was a high school teacher was in a small private christian school--I think for only two years. But he's still a stickler for good education, for doing the SAt tests several times, and for good ability in writing. Isaac is NOT a good writer-- that's where the dyslexia really gets in the way. And i believe that is where problems might come in-- they might try to push him to do something he may NOT be able to do. The man has started on me a couple times in trying to tell me where i am doing things wrong. He also has the maturity to back down and not risk the friendship, so the discussion doesn't go too far. But these are the kind of people who also say antidepressants are unnecessary. I think they are uncomfortable with weakness.
Psalmie, there were a couple things in this part of your post that sorta raised red flags for me.
What is the source of their being adamant about not believing there are learning differences? What is the source of their thinking antidepressants are unnecessary? Why are they "uncomfortable with weakness"?
It sounds to me like these people might be hard-core Christian fundamentalists. The "uncomfortable with weaknesses" sorta gave me a twi-flashback chill up my spine. Maybe it's just me, but although I'm a Christian, that rigid "my way or the highway" mindset that a lot of fundies carry around doesn't sit right with me.
How much have you talked with them about their beliefs? How close are their beliefs to your own, and if they aren't the same, will they try to indoctrinate Isaac to their way of thinking? I'd surely want to know that before I'd even consider letting my child stay with another family.
You have to do what you believe is best for your son and your family, butI think maybe you've already answered your own question when you said God didn't make a mistake whan he gave you your son. When I was in junior high, my dad's wealthy aunt and uncle wanted in the worst way to let me come live with them. They had lost their only son during World War II, and I think they were just lonely and wanted someone around to love and spoil. Although they could have sent me to the best schools and bought me anything I wanted, my parents declined their offer, and I'm glad they did. I would have missed my parents and my little sisters, and they would have missed me. My high school years with my family, although sometimes rocky because, after all, I was a teenager (rofl), were precious.
As far as improving Isaac's education and opportunities, are you in a homeschooling network of any kind? My sister's two boys were homeschooled; neither ever went to public school at all. But my sister, through her network, got tutoring for the boys in subjects she wasn't particularly strong in or that the boys were particularly interested in, and they both did fine. One's got just one year of college left and the other is about to start college.
I'm sure you give your kids opportunities to socialize with the public school kids--joint scouts if they like, play sports, help at the library, whatever. They don't have to "conform with the crowd," but I firmly believe it's important that they learn to get along with a variety of kids. I think because my sister did that, it made the transition from school-at-home to college and work in the "outside world" much easier.
I am aware that both dyslexia and ADD ADHD can be overdiagnosed. My mom was an OT and learned that some so-called learning disabilities could be overcome by having the kids crawling around on hands and knees--something about the alternating of the limbs. Sometimes i wonder if some of Ben's dificulties are hearing related, although standard hearing test at physicals say his hearing is fine. Anyway, i think i will look at his info.
Isaac and I sat down today making pro and con lists. Funny thing, if they still lived 3 miles away, as they once did, we both would more seriously consider having him go as a day school arrangement. the friend totored Ben a few years ago, and he enjoyed it--I took her daughter at that time and taught her basic home-ec type classes.
WG, yeah, I would like to hear what your hubby says. These guys are not scientologists, but they also have never been around people who have any types of handicaps and such. when I had my operation on my ankle, she kinda stayed away til I could get around, because she didn't know 'what to do". (I needed help washing my hair, other little things) On the other hand, when she tutored Ben, she was extremely patient and had an approach I hadn't tried, and succeeded in getting him to read much better than i had gotten him. She wouldn't acknowledge that he might have a learning disability/difference, and explained away that all kids turn their letters around. but she WAS patient in reminding him to rewrite his backwards letter. That is why this is hard to decide, because, while she won't acknowledge the learning glitch, she will tutor to his needs, most of the time--my fear is, If IF If he should run into a block specific to his dyslexia--or whatever it may be. (Isaac, i mean). Then again, her teaching style may get him over a block.
I HAVE mentioned to her that I wished i could get tutoring for one or both of them-- also, there is a school nearby that teaches specifically to dyslexics, and i had told her i wanted to get one or both of them there for at least some tutoring. Since she HAD tutored one of my kids-- and is fairly good at it, I think that got the gears turning in her head.
Socks, I hear ya. i wish i could just ask her to help ME out instead, or, like I said, if she was close by, and it could be a tutoring thing--even if one to two days a week. I DO want what's BEST for him. And I'm really not bothered by "different"--that kinda stuff has a tendency to iron out when everybody is adult--ya know, the high school "nerd" ends up being the boss! LOL!
Twinky, I know what you sre saying--it may help the "culture shock thing" if he were to do this, but being it's 9th grade, and there are three more years to high school, and i am afraid this will "grow" into all four years. Part of it, is i think if Isaac does adjust, and enjoys it there--if they really are helpful in his schooling, and not harsh, too pushy or whatever, but are pleasant and great to live with, HE would want to stay. Financially every need he would have, they would meet-- they get their kids anything they want. At their house, he'd have a wii, an ipod, current game system. We have one game cube and old cd walkmans. Isaac and i have wondered, too, if maybe having him stay for a few weeks as a trial, before next school year, might be an idea. He and I have made a list today of the pros and cons. HE is aware that with them, some of the academic type needs might be more apt to be met. It's hard!
Linda, yeah, they are kinda hard-core fundimentalists. I think maybe we would be seen as that, too. He was a preacher in the Christian church denomination, then I think he pastored at a different denomination, also. We all met at a church in Baltimore. He ran a home group at that church. Eventually, several of the families left the church and we started up an independant home church. He led it. I do trust him to teach my son fairly close to what we believe, although i don't always agree with some of their extreme beliefs.
The problem is, Isaac has embraced some of their beliefs--he hangs out a lot with them. He really likes these guys, and while i said he's not a crowd follower, he IS a (this family) follower. Usually if the xxxx's say it, Isaac believes it. We, our whole family really enjoyed the home church we had with them. we did get out of the waybrain thinking in this home church. i can honestly say I am thankful for the time we had with them in their home church--we learned a lot and unlearned a whole lot of other stuff!
The friendship between the adults continued after they moved, but when my hubby lost his job, and wasn't doing much to replace it, they separated themselves from us. (the verse, if a man doesn't work, he shouldn't eat. also says not to fellowship with him) while they separated themselves from the adults, they continued to have Isaac over for these occasional weekends. I think, to a small extent, it is kinda like your aunt and uncle trying to fill the void of their older son going away to college. They would definately love and spoil him. I also think there is a measure of them thinking they would be 'rescuing' Isaac. with them, he would have more opportunities for success. With us, he may continue the cycle of poverty--or at least near-poverty. Isaac recognizes the fact that with them, it would definately help him break the cycle he is in with us.
Here is maybe the real dilemma on my part. A lot of Isaac's 'pro's to go there had to do with getting somewhat of a break from his dad. He loves us both very much. but I've seen this clash coming since they started clashing when Isaac was little. I tried to tell my hubby back then, but he always shifted the blame. Which is what he does now. Isaac often is the one that backs down, and I think he is fairly successful in fighting down any resentment. He and I have some conversations about this and I try to teach him to not harbor anger. I think he can do that well, just because of his personality-- he's not the quick-to-anger type of person, and has a long fuse. But this is I think a bigger dilemma for me than the school. After reading all these posts, i realize i HAVE to change what i am doing-- get the testing, get the "point in the right direction', do the paperwork. But i am right now, in the same dillemma my mom was in many years ago. My mom had to let go of my two older brothers, one at a time, because of the clash between them and my dad. If they didn't move away, something ugly might have happened. this is not exactly the same situation, but there are a lot of simlarities.
In a person who senses are all functioning normally, 80% of the learning process is facilitated by the visual system.
(Sheesh! I learned that all those years ago in school and finally I had an opportunity to say it. :) )
Now, I'm not just talking about visual acuity(the 20/20 chart). There are lots of other things too like stereopsis(depth perception), color deficiencies, eyes that want to turn this way or that when they get too tired, ambliopia(lazy eye), etc.
It all plays a vital role in a child's ability to learn at a normal pace.
P-salm, I understand. I wanted to mention his Dad, but wasn't sure if that was appropriate. I also agree, help is good - help you, help the family. Part of the whole equation is what your husband is doing and how that effects the whole situation. This may not be the place to open that up, but seems like by the sounds of it there's some groundwork that needs to be laid there.
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Psalm 71 one
Isaac would benefit in many ways;
He and their 16 yo son are really great friends and would truly enjoy being “brothers”.
They would probably pay for his driver’s ed. Also—something we will not be able to do for a long time. (Hubby’s been unemployed since July, and in addition wasn’t very wise with the savings we were living off of, so now we have a bunch of financial problems we wouldn’t have to be going through—enough said on that. I don’t want to go there in a public forum)
As a matter of fact, just about anything he would need they would take care of—they would treat him as their own—they are that kind of people and they LOVE Isaac.
Isaac loves them. He loves their lively conversations. They are all competitive arguers, and love to get into debates. He is a rational thinker and they are too.
Again, I have to admit, I have been seeing my own limitations—not from lack of intelligence or even ability on my part, but because I procrastinate, and haven’t seemed to be able to beat that weakness on my part. Even when I know it may hinder my child’s education. And if I don’t do what I am supposed to do, it would hinder my son’s
education. That should be enough for me to get past it, but I haven’t gotten past it.
Ben would benefit from better one-on-one time with me, although he’d miss Isaac terribly—he adores Isaac.
When I ran the idea past him, he definitely was interested—although he didn’t like the idea of not being with us. (It would be long stretches between seeing him, because this family is really busy—it could be more than a month in between seeing him)
But I could see his mind running with it.
The point my friend kept saying is that I have to do what’s best for Isaac. It’s possible this IS what is best for him.
But he’s MY SON!!! I don’t want him to go away yet! I’m gonna have a hard enough time when he has to go away to college! The more I think about it, the more I have been crying. Because this would really benefit him, but I would lose him sooner!
Because, to be honest, it wouldn’t be for just one year, ninth grade—it would end up being all of high school. And what hurts is that he would conform well into their family.
And he WOULD benefit—and he would probably end up in a much better situation in his adult life than he would if he was with us. BUT HE’S MINE! I waited many years and many miscarriages to have this child! I fought with my husband for the privilege of home schooling him because I really love being with him. I have loved every age more than the last. He is a really great young man—anyone who meets him, just loves him, and comments on how responsible he is.
When Isaac saw that I had been crying, he admitted he didn’t like the idea that he would have to be so far away from us. Ben overheard and asked about it and was in tears about Isaac going too. But Isaac and I know the benefits may far outweigh our family staying intact. Isaac loves us very much, but he knows this might be best for him—even though he really doesn’t want to be away from us for such long periods of time.
This would be so much easier to decide on, if we all lived close—I would drive him to their house every day. I would welcome the help—if nothing more than to have some time alone with Ben.
I haven’t run this past my hubby. I don’t know how he will react. He is in a deep depression about our situation, but I really think he doesn’t realize a lot of it is of his making. He’s seeing this unemployment as unfair and what has he done wrong. Again, I don’t want to get into it here, but he has made a lot of bad decisions, that he sees only as himself being a victim. He is depressed, and he makes horrible comments against himself. When he hears about this, he will react in one of two ways. Be offended that the friends are trying to interfere, or go into his ‘poor me, I can’t provide, here you might as well have my son’. I’m not sure he will see that this is a situation where maybe we SHOULD look at this from a viewpoint of Isaac’s best interests.
If you are still reading, what do you think? Would you let your son go this young?
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Shellon
Psalm, there is no way anyone can totally advise you on this one to the end of your decision and I get that you know that. Experiences, ideas, suggestions are what you're after.
Every family has unique dynamics, needs, issues, strenghts and weakness's, hence what might work for one quite possibly would be a disaster for another.
I can and will pray with you on this most difficult decision.
My eldest had an opportunity to move out and live with another family at about your son's age, she was 16. It was absolutly NOT for academic purposes, but to get she and I apart, to give her a place to grieve the death of her father, to give her some differant space. She took about 30 seconds to say YES! <_<
I spent many hours, days, weeks! tossing the idea around, trying to do what was best for her, for our entire family.
I chose to not do it. But having said that, please hear me when I say that was US! Not necessarily you and your situation. I can not say if I'd have done it the other way if it were for her academic betterment; I just don't know.
The offer, as it were, caused me to stop and consider so many things, to really take a hard and painful look at some needs. It wasn't a fun ride, as yours isn't.
You will make the right decision, you have to know that. You're his mama, that's your job.
And if you are entertaining any thoughts that you're a lousy mama cuz you're giving this serious thought, cut that out!
Who's to say, besides you, your husband, the boy?
God speed and bless your hearts. Prayers here!
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Cowgirl
Hi Psalm 71
Just finished reading about your situation and my heart goes out to you..................I tried to put myself in your shoes and if it were me this would be my thinking.......I wouldn't do it, reason being he would be growing up over at your friend's house and you mentioned you wouldn't get to see him for maybe a month or more over several years, you'd never get those years back. Also all we really have is "now" you can't predict what's going to happen in the future. I'd keep my family together and work with the situation at hand as best as I could, but like Shellon said you have to go with what's best for you, I'm curious, what about enrolling him in a public school close to home?
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PurpleDays
I'll be praying with you Psalmie. There are advantages and costs to every situation. You might want to make a T chart. Draw a line down the middle of a sheet of paper. On one side, list the advantages to Issac. One the other, the disadvantages. Then give the advantages and disadvantages of this situation to your family (Ben, you, your husband, as well as Issac). That may help you see the situation in greater detail.
PurpleDays
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WhiteDove
Hey Psalmie
I wondered the same as Cowgirl about Regular school. I know it flies in the face of the home school you spent years at but it does have some advantages as well as disadvantages. Maybe it's time ,that this would be an option for you. You would need to decide if that trade would be worth having your family in tact. I bet by now you have taught Isaac a good solid base to draw from when he needs it. Also you should qualify for some programs to get any testing you need done for the boys. Please look into this, you paid taxes for many years ,thats one of the things your dollars supports. I'll be praying for you and family. I know I'll regret saying this but I miss my pie throwing piggy friend...........
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Ron G.
This is a tough call. Offhand I would suggest you let the other people tutor Isaac without actually living with them.
I have a friend named Susan who is a retired high school math teacher. Due to my inability to do things with a mathematical precision (anything beyond fingers and toes and I'm lost) I agreed to let Susan tutor Andrew for his homeschooling in math. Twice a week she would come and pick Andrew up and keep him for about 3 hours. It didn't cost anything...I just gave her husband, John, written permission to come thru my land and hunt on an adjoining property that's landlocked.
It all worked out very well as by the end of the year, Andrew was doing college level calculus at age 13.
As sort of an experiment, last year he enrolled in the public school and is now at the top of his class.
What I'm saying here is I understand your concern and how Isaac would benefit from the outside instruction as did Andrew. What I don't exactly understand is WHY it's necessary for him to actually live there. Even the public school doesn't keep him there 24/7, as much as I'm sure they'd love to.
Since it's just about summer, you have some time to mull this over. I think it needs to be seriously considered befor a final decision is made.
Remember, there's a lot more to schooling than "readin' writin' and 'rithmetic". There are things that only YOU, as the parent can provide in the atmosphere of your own family. Your son is NOT chattel property of society at large nor is he to be a subset of a "village".
He's YOUR son.
Once again, WHY must he live there? What is the purpose of this? Does this "former high school teacher and stickler for good education" have some agenda beyond teaching Isaac basic academics? I'd be a little (maybe more than a little) suspect, knowing the guy's been trained in the public school model of education. I don't know how steeped he is in it, but maybe you should find out.
Here is an excerpt from an essay entitled "The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought?" I recently read by John Taylor Gatto...
"The structure of American schooling, 20th century style, began in 1806 when Napoleon's amateur soldiers beat the professional soldiers of Prussia at the battle of Jena. When your business is selling soldiers, losing a battle like that is serious. Almost immediately afterwards a German philosopher named Fichte delivered his famous "Address to the German Nation" which became one of the most influential documents in modern history. In effect he told the Prussian people that the party was over, that the nation would have to shape up through a new Utopian institution of forced schooling in which everyone would learn to take orders.
So the world got compulsion schooling at the end of a state bayonet for the first time in human history; modern forced schooling started in Prussia in 1819 with a clear vision of what centralized schools could deliver:
1.Obedient soldiers to the army;
2.Obedient workers to the mines;
3.Well subordinated civil servants to government;
4.Well subordinated clerks to industry"
5.Citizens who thought alike about major issues. "
To see the end results of this in the United States today, just flip on your teevee and watch the news.
I may be overstating all this or maybe I'm missing or misunderstanding something (it is very late and I'm very tired), but it's something to consider and I'd be VERY wary of allowing my son to be raised by another under the guise of education.
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waysider
I'm baffled here as to why someone who is professionally trained(You stated he was a high school educator) would deny the reality of learning disabilities. Dyslexia is very real. Acknowledgment of his condition should play a major role in deciding how he is educated. It needs to be accepted and specifically addressed.
I'm sure this would be an easier decision if "geography" wasn't clouding the situation.
I don't like to give "advise" so I'll merely suggest that you discuss the situation with someone associated with the public school in your area. They may even have some sort of diagnostic or quantifying procedure already in place for your type of situation. If nothing else, you'll at least know you have covered all the possibilities.
On a slightly different note, you stated he may be pursuing a college education after high school. It might benefit him on a personal level to learn to adapt to learning in a social environment while he is still at home with a family that can help him navigate through some of the pitfalls he is sure to encounter after being home schooled. Don't think of it as the end of your home schooling.
Think of it a "pre" college program with a personal tutor(you) right there on site.
That's my 2 cents.
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anotherDan
Lots of good comments, above. As others have said, as Mommy, so much will depend on you, and you have obviously been doing your best, with Isaac's interests in mind. You will have my prayers, as well.
I used to "not believe" in certain mental or emotional disabilities, myself, and in some ways it hindered me from being a better parent /friend / brother, but there is a ditch on the other side of the road, as well. For example, when we label and write-off people in various ways. My sense is that your term "learning difference" is a healthy and sound one.
I have friends with a two year old who is very different from his brother, and it is not too strong a word to say he is profoundly less developed in certain areas than his brother was at that age. He's currently undergoing testing and will have someone visit the house for an hour each week to work with him and his mom to help him. Like Isaac, he's a marvelous child, adored by his parents and all who know him. But it's hard to deny that if things go as they have been, he will not be ready for school at the same age as the majority of kids.
As our three daughters grew up, we homeschooled our younger two for a time. Ultimately, we realized we would have been better to have homeschooled our oldest, and sent the other two to public schools. (Hind sight!) The other two didn't do as well without the structure and feedback that traditional schools provided. We did see that after a while, but the oldest, who didn't respond well to being shoehorned through a program, probably would have done better being a round peg in a round hole.
There are more than two options, here, and some of the posts may give you help in seeking an alternative, perhaps, that you've yet to think of. As I said, there were a lot of thoughtful posts, above. It warms my heart that one aspect of the GS community allows for this kind of sharing / exploration of difficulties.
Sometimes our situations seem like such trainwrecks that we have to go to triage mode, and just make progress in the ways that seem most important, and leave other conditions alone for a while. I was in that mode for some time, and am still working on the remaining conditions! Suffice it to say, though, that my prayers will be for your husband's recovery as well. It can certainly be rough to be Dad and unemployed.
If I can be of help in any way, feel free to PM me.
So you're no longer in MD? You're in Georgia now?
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Watered Garden
I don't know much about home schooling, but here in Ohio there are programs through the county that home schoolers can take advantage of, for example, my friend at church who home schools is part of a loose organization of home schoolers, but it was the county that tested and treats her children for speech problems. Perhaps you could find out about getting your kids tested for dyslexia via a similar route?
I would find out how these people discipline their own children before I sent one of mine to live with them. Just a thought.
I would have to have a real big serious heart-to-heart with a teacher who denied all "disabilities". Mr. Garden has seen kids who need medication to be able to sit still in class and kids who just don't want to do the work. He has had autistic kids in his classes because he is the only teacher there who gets through to them. He has had Down's syndrome kids who did better for him than for anybody. Yet he is not a softie and does not allow anyone to slack off. Perhaps this gentleman simply feels a learning uniqueness is not necessarily to be used as an excuse. (Not at all implying that Isaac would).
There's a book/class on different ways of learning. Have you read it? "Eight Ways of Learning" I think it is. Mr. Garden took this seminar several years ago and loved it. Kids learn visually, musically, tactilely, all sort of ways.l It might be fun to look at and see the different ways your boys learn. And if this teacher hasn't seen it, he might like it too.
Just a few thoughts.
WG
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templelady
Psalmie
How can sending your child to be schooled by a couple who will deny his special needs in the educational arena possible be good for him?
As a person with a teaching degree, albeit an old one, I am appalled that these so-called educators are still living in the dark ages.
As a person who has mild dyslexia I am aware of the challenges that particular brain function can cause.
Dyslexia is not caused by moods, or anything else that the individual has control over. Isaac's bran simply sees and processes information differently than many other peoples. That is a problem in a society where so much of what we do is tied in some form or another to the written page.
Secondly, your son himself doesn't want to be gone from you. While stress doesn't cause dyslexia it certainly acerbates the condition.
Being unemployed and strapped financially doesn't mean that you are not qualified to meet your sons needs
I strongly urge that you contact
http://www.interdys.org/
this is the link to the Foundation dealing with dyslexia. They should be able to help in finding a testing service you can afford or that will be provided free of charge.
In addition, while your your public school district may not be where you want your son , it may be worth sending him for a semester so that they can do an evaluation. Most districts provide this service at little or no cost to the parents or a reasonable payment schedule can be worked out.
Finally never forget that the most important thing for a child is loving parents and siblings who let the child know that no matter what they are with him 100%. You and your husband and his brother are the only one who can provide this. Maybe down the road, say his junior or senior year sending him to your friends might be feasible. But IMO not now, not when a firm diagnosis hasn't been made ( there are at least six forms of dylexia each adffecting a different area of brain activity), a plan for dealing with whatever problems there are is not yet in place. and the stress of being in high school for the first time makes the familial love and support more critical than ever.
What ever you do my thoughts and prayers are with you
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Psalmies family)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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doojable
In my town a lot of homeschoolers go to the local Scottish Rite Hospital for free testing and evaluation.
I'd also like to mention that while your oldest son has the opportunity for a "brother" in his friend while living with this family - that there is a flesh and blood brother at home who needs his big-brother.
That said, only your family can decide what is best in this situation. Perhaps you can make this decision on a temporary basis at first and re-evaluate after 1 month, then again after another 3 months.
I'm sure you'll find a solution that fits and serves everyone.
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Zshot
Psalmie,
I have no comments or suggestions on your situation. However, it is in my prayers.
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Ron G.
In the harsh light of morning (and coffee) I see that I got off on a tangent in my previous post. Although I still think it's valid, I should add that your spark of intution in the above quote tells ME....very loudly...that you are vastly more qualified to teach your children than those who "don't believe in learning disabilities".
This is just my opinion, but I see, all too often, where intelligence is commonly measured by the childs ability to conform to societies norms, when, in fact, brilliance and genius are found in the flaws to that conformity.
That's just my take on this and your mileage may vary (as they say).
Edited to remind you that our prayers are with you, but you should already know that.
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washn'wear
Okay salmie - you may not like my gut response. _ No - Hell no.
I have an LD daughter - dyslexia etc....and while you may see a lot positives - I can tell you as a teacher and parent...no one watches out for their kid better than a loving parent!!!!!!!!
My daughter has awesome friends--awesome parents with whom I am very close--but there is no way I am walking away from it. If you would like my phone number I can tell you some bonafide clinical reasons why it is not a good idea psychologically.
I can tell you this. It will make a certain kind of memory in his brain you will not anticipate. Ten years - 20 years from now it will rip you both up that you were seperated...and it was optional---not life or death.
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socks
I'd say no, he stays with you and your family, at home. Public school, and do additional stuff to help him. Work on your financial situation, get some outside help if you can to help with your situation. Easy to give advice - but that would be the long and short of it, based on what you wrote.
My son spelled "phonetic" in middle and most of high school. He'd study, pass tests, do okay, then write "the kat wus big an flufy" in a sentence. He's very intelligent, creative, and has graduated college. We were told phonetic spelling was something he'd deal with as time went on and he did. He's still not the greatest speller, and when he's in a hurry, he uses short hand - which is how we learned his mind works in that regard. Interestingly, he's very good at math.
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Psalm 71 one
Thank you all. Today was a hard day. I have prayed, gotten angry, gotten defensive, looked inward, thinking of myself as a failure, then yelling (In my mind! LOL)
I AM HiS MOTHER!!!! GOD DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE IN GIVING THIS CHILD TO ME!
I am wondering what they are really thinking now, too. Are they saying, "you are ruining this child, give him to us so we can fix him" ? Or are they making this offer because they like this kid, they know that 16 yo is gonna miss his older brother, who is going to college next year, lets try to get someone to fill the void. Or is it just because they heard me say i am struggling in teaching these guys, and they want to help me fix things.
I HAVE considered public school--or at least the public school's homeschool program. I enjoy having him home. He enjoys being home. Isaac IS different--always has been. He didn't fit in well with his peers even when he was little. Maybe the other kids found him "odd", but the parents always liked him. He hasn't "clicked" with most public school kids, he doesn't have the desire to wear what they wear and play what they play just because everybody else does. He's more mature than most of them I have met. He gets along well with other homeschoolers unless they are "crowd followers".
As his mother, i think this is a great trait--he walks to the beat of a different drum! lol. I also know when he goes away to college, he will probably have a bit of culture shock. But i also believe he is strong enough to handle it-- as he would be if i DO put him into public school--he's not going to get talked into drugs or anything-- he has his own convictions. He has a stength of discipline my hubby or I never had in high school. He has the strength to be a Daniel, or a Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego.
I'm serious. If he were dragged awy to another country like those young men were, he has that kind of strength, that he would not bow.
That is my Isaac. That is what these friends see in him. I see the same in their son--the one closest to Isaac in age. I trust these guys to raise my children, should we die. But we are not dead, and this is a choice.
But i also have a hard time with their adamency (is that a word?) against learning differences. The man who was a high school teacher was in a small private christian school--I think for only two years. But he's still a stickler for good education, for doing the SAt tests several times, and for good ability in writing. Isaac is NOT a good writer-- that's where the dyslexia really gets in the way. And i believe that is where problems might come in-- they might try to push him to do something he may NOT be able to do. The man has started on me a couple times in trying to tell me where i am doing things wrong. He also has the maturity to back down and not risk the friendship, so the discussion doesn't go too far. But these are the kind of people who also say antidepressants are unnecessary. I think they are uncomfortable with weakness. They are very driven, competitive people. (I want to give a couple examples, but i think I am being too long-winded as it is.
I have wondered what his SAT will be if there isn't leeway given in the timed testing. He knows his facts, but does absolutely horrible in times tests. That is just one of the aspects.
I don't want to miss acknowledging any of you who posted, but I know how hard it is to read long posts! Shellon, Cowgirl, Purpledays, Zshot, Waysider, WhiteDove, Thank you all so much for your input-- I've somewhat answered ya, but haven't mentioned your name when i did. I hear ya all, and I will need to reread everything here again! I love you guys! Mr Feathers-- yep, you'll live to regret that-- just when you least expect it!
Ron, the reason he'd have to live with them is how far apart we live. It takes 1 1/2 hours to get to their house during non-rush hours. If I were driving him back and forth, in the mornings, during rush hour, it would take 2 or more hours to get him there-- them I'd still have to get home. can't afford it either in time or gas money.
Mo, I didn't know about the six different types of dyslexia, but i believe it. the ways i worked with Isaac are not working with Ben. I will take yours, and everyone else who suggested it, advice in looking into having him tested-- i stopped persuing it years ago when i discovered it would be as much as $3000 without health insurance (or more).
Dooj, I cried again when you said that about Isaac's real life brother. Ben thinks the world of Isaac. Isaac's sentiments are not always the same-- Ben really can be a pesky little brother and i have to call him off Isaac sometimes! lol! This couple has made it clear that they want me to make this decision as a one year comminment (school year).
And Washnwear, I have wondered too about the long-term repercussions. I have considered asking you a hundred times if you can point me in the right direction concerning the dyslexia stuff.
Socks, Isaac is a phonetic speller, too, but excellent in math. He wants to be an engineer! His "salvation" in spelling is that he can memorize so well. Ben is having a much tougher time, because he has almost NO memorization ability. Plus he is such a kinetic learner he HATES book learning-- he loves science because i try to do everything hands on.
WG, I haven't read that book, but I read one about the Visual, auditory, kinetic--and one other that slips my mind! I haven't read too much on teaching the teacher books lately--I read a million in the first few years. I think I'll look that one up at the library. I do think this family does think i use the dyslexia as an excuse. And to be honest, sometimes i wonder if I am, too. Like I didn't give Isaac grades for spelling--I just made him correct his mistakes and quizzed him on the missed words a few days later.
Dan, yeah, we are in GA now. I think we know each other, but I haven't contacted you yet! LOL Guess I better now that I've said this. . . Isaac sounds a lot like your oldest--doesn't appreciate being shoehorned into things.
I s'pose i oughta stop for now--Some of ya might not even still be here. Sorry for talking so much. I've faced a lot of tough decisions in my life, but I'd have to say this might be one of the toughest!
Because I don't think it will be easy to tell them no, if that is what we say.
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A la prochaine
Hello Psalmie,
I've read your post and the one thing that stood out to me was that these 'educators' do not believe in learning disabilities.
For the past 8 years I have been a tutor for a specified reading program and centre. As well, for the past 10 years, I have been a part-time teacher in the public school board.
My specific training has been in reading and learning to teach children to read who have very specific reading difficulties. Over the years and the hundreds of students I and my boss have worked with, few have actually been dyslexic (though, I'm not disagreeing with this diagnosis, nor am I saying that dyslexia is not a valid learning disability). Often reading difficulties, of which spelling difficulties incur, are due to poor phonological memory or slow memory recall or a combination of these as well weak sound manipulation abilities and articulatory issues.
The man I work for has his Doctorate in Education and did his dissertation on a specific reading program called Phonographix by Read America. We no longer use this specific program in our centre...yet we still do apply many of the same principles to teach children/adolescents to read.
I know for a fact that there is a text book for this program and you could probably access any of these materials via the internet.
You can PM me if you want more information.
All the best.. and personally... I think you're on the way to the right decision regarding your son. I believe that staying at home with his own family will have a far more positive impact on him than getting this so called 'better education'.
hugs
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Watered Garden
The thing that jumped out at me this time reading the posts, is the prejudice against learning disabilities AND antidepressants. Are these guys Scientologists?
Sometimes antidepressants can be the difference between life and death. And learning "disabilities" are real, if misperceived many times. Ron G, I think it was, wrote about the standardization of education and the bad things about it.
Your Isaac sounds like someone I'd like to call a friend. My hope and prayer for him is that he never gets crammed into a mold!
Other than that, I dunno. IF you would like, I'll discuss this with my very educated educator husband, who has a great deal of common sense.
I do think getting Isaac tested for dyslexia if you can do it free through the state or something would be a good idea.
WG
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socks
Maybe your friend can help you, Psalmie, while you go the route you choose. Sounds like they do know some things about educating, are there practical things that would help?
IMO the school system supports the child. What's good for the child? It's difficult to make one school work for everyone. You might try a mix of things, to make it work.
Another thing - he has a long life ahead, as do you. :) Make the goal to get him what he needs and at the same time to get the boxes checked, ie through high school and looking at the next step of education, that's right for him. That's the point in the long run, I think. When he's 30, he'll be in a different world, mixing with people - who knows how and where? At this point, get 'er done and get him going in the right direction. For 4 years - I would think that's gotta be there, at home, with his family. Anyhoo....kids are all so different, we're all so different at that young age. What's "different" today will be something else a year older, y'know? He may develop in ways you can't see yet, in a year or two.
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Twinky
I can't add much but two things occur: firstly, sooner or later he is going to have to leave home and in a carefully controlled environment with known and trusted support would be easier than leaving to go to college.
Secondly, what does he really want? You've said he is a mature lad and can make up his own mind. Perhaps now is the time, if you haven't already done so, to sit down with him and discuss his long-term goals (if any) and how he would like to achieve them. He is definitely old enough to be involved in this sort of decision and his future education does need his maximum participation. If he is unhappy with your friends his education will not thrive and neither will he; but to thrive he may need to be out of the "home" box and may be ready to stretch out.
Over the summer vacation period - would it be helpful if he went and stayed with your friends for a couple of weeks? You would both have an opportunity for a "free look" at him being away.
It's a difficult decision - but only death is completely irreversible. You can change your mind in six months if you make the wrong decision now.
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Linda Z
Psalmie, there were a couple things in this part of your post that sorta raised red flags for me.
What is the source of their being adamant about not believing there are learning differences? What is the source of their thinking antidepressants are unnecessary? Why are they "uncomfortable with weakness"?
It sounds to me like these people might be hard-core Christian fundamentalists. The "uncomfortable with weaknesses" sorta gave me a twi-flashback chill up my spine. Maybe it's just me, but although I'm a Christian, that rigid "my way or the highway" mindset that a lot of fundies carry around doesn't sit right with me.
How much have you talked with them about their beliefs? How close are their beliefs to your own, and if they aren't the same, will they try to indoctrinate Isaac to their way of thinking? I'd surely want to know that before I'd even consider letting my child stay with another family.
You have to do what you believe is best for your son and your family, butI think maybe you've already answered your own question when you said God didn't make a mistake whan he gave you your son. When I was in junior high, my dad's wealthy aunt and uncle wanted in the worst way to let me come live with them. They had lost their only son during World War II, and I think they were just lonely and wanted someone around to love and spoil. Although they could have sent me to the best schools and bought me anything I wanted, my parents declined their offer, and I'm glad they did. I would have missed my parents and my little sisters, and they would have missed me. My high school years with my family, although sometimes rocky because, after all, I was a teenager (rofl), were precious.
As far as improving Isaac's education and opportunities, are you in a homeschooling network of any kind? My sister's two boys were homeschooled; neither ever went to public school at all. But my sister, through her network, got tutoring for the boys in subjects she wasn't particularly strong in or that the boys were particularly interested in, and they both did fine. One's got just one year of college left and the other is about to start college.
I'm sure you give your kids opportunities to socialize with the public school kids--joint scouts if they like, play sports, help at the library, whatever. They don't have to "conform with the crowd," but I firmly believe it's important that they learn to get along with a variety of kids. I think because my sister did that, it made the transition from school-at-home to college and work in the "outside world" much easier.
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Psalm 71 one
A la prochaine,
I am aware that both dyslexia and ADD ADHD can be overdiagnosed. My mom was an OT and learned that some so-called learning disabilities could be overcome by having the kids crawling around on hands and knees--something about the alternating of the limbs. Sometimes i wonder if some of Ben's dificulties are hearing related, although standard hearing test at physicals say his hearing is fine. Anyway, i think i will look at his info.
Isaac and I sat down today making pro and con lists. Funny thing, if they still lived 3 miles away, as they once did, we both would more seriously consider having him go as a day school arrangement. the friend totored Ben a few years ago, and he enjoyed it--I took her daughter at that time and taught her basic home-ec type classes.
WG, yeah, I would like to hear what your hubby says. These guys are not scientologists, but they also have never been around people who have any types of handicaps and such. when I had my operation on my ankle, she kinda stayed away til I could get around, because she didn't know 'what to do". (I needed help washing my hair, other little things) On the other hand, when she tutored Ben, she was extremely patient and had an approach I hadn't tried, and succeeded in getting him to read much better than i had gotten him. She wouldn't acknowledge that he might have a learning disability/difference, and explained away that all kids turn their letters around. but she WAS patient in reminding him to rewrite his backwards letter. That is why this is hard to decide, because, while she won't acknowledge the learning glitch, she will tutor to his needs, most of the time--my fear is, If IF If he should run into a block specific to his dyslexia--or whatever it may be. (Isaac, i mean). Then again, her teaching style may get him over a block.
I HAVE mentioned to her that I wished i could get tutoring for one or both of them-- also, there is a school nearby that teaches specifically to dyslexics, and i had told her i wanted to get one or both of them there for at least some tutoring. Since she HAD tutored one of my kids-- and is fairly good at it, I think that got the gears turning in her head.
Socks, I hear ya. i wish i could just ask her to help ME out instead, or, like I said, if she was close by, and it could be a tutoring thing--even if one to two days a week. I DO want what's BEST for him. And I'm really not bothered by "different"--that kinda stuff has a tendency to iron out when everybody is adult--ya know, the high school "nerd" ends up being the boss! LOL!
Twinky, I know what you sre saying--it may help the "culture shock thing" if he were to do this, but being it's 9th grade, and there are three more years to high school, and i am afraid this will "grow" into all four years. Part of it, is i think if Isaac does adjust, and enjoys it there--if they really are helpful in his schooling, and not harsh, too pushy or whatever, but are pleasant and great to live with, HE would want to stay. Financially every need he would have, they would meet-- they get their kids anything they want. At their house, he'd have a wii, an ipod, current game system. We have one game cube and old cd walkmans. Isaac and i have wondered, too, if maybe having him stay for a few weeks as a trial, before next school year, might be an idea. He and I have made a list today of the pros and cons. HE is aware that with them, some of the academic type needs might be more apt to be met. It's hard!
Linda, yeah, they are kinda hard-core fundimentalists. I think maybe we would be seen as that, too. He was a preacher in the Christian church denomination, then I think he pastored at a different denomination, also. We all met at a church in Baltimore. He ran a home group at that church. Eventually, several of the families left the church and we started up an independant home church. He led it. I do trust him to teach my son fairly close to what we believe, although i don't always agree with some of their extreme beliefs.
The problem is, Isaac has embraced some of their beliefs--he hangs out a lot with them. He really likes these guys, and while i said he's not a crowd follower, he IS a (this family) follower. Usually if the xxxx's say it, Isaac believes it. We, our whole family really enjoyed the home church we had with them. we did get out of the waybrain thinking in this home church. i can honestly say I am thankful for the time we had with them in their home church--we learned a lot and unlearned a whole lot of other stuff!
The friendship between the adults continued after they moved, but when my hubby lost his job, and wasn't doing much to replace it, they separated themselves from us. (the verse, if a man doesn't work, he shouldn't eat. also says not to fellowship with him) while they separated themselves from the adults, they continued to have Isaac over for these occasional weekends. I think, to a small extent, it is kinda like your aunt and uncle trying to fill the void of their older son going away to college. They would definately love and spoil him. I also think there is a measure of them thinking they would be 'rescuing' Isaac. with them, he would have more opportunities for success. With us, he may continue the cycle of poverty--or at least near-poverty. Isaac recognizes the fact that with them, it would definately help him break the cycle he is in with us.
Here is maybe the real dilemma on my part. A lot of Isaac's 'pro's to go there had to do with getting somewhat of a break from his dad. He loves us both very much. but I've seen this clash coming since they started clashing when Isaac was little. I tried to tell my hubby back then, but he always shifted the blame. Which is what he does now. Isaac often is the one that backs down, and I think he is fairly successful in fighting down any resentment. He and I have some conversations about this and I try to teach him to not harbor anger. I think he can do that well, just because of his personality-- he's not the quick-to-anger type of person, and has a long fuse. But this is I think a bigger dilemma for me than the school. After reading all these posts, i realize i HAVE to change what i am doing-- get the testing, get the "point in the right direction', do the paperwork. But i am right now, in the same dillemma my mom was in many years ago. My mom had to let go of my two older brothers, one at a time, because of the clash between them and my dad. If they didn't move away, something ugly might have happened. this is not exactly the same situation, but there are a lot of simlarities.
There it is
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waysider
Have you had his vision thoroughly tested?
In a person who senses are all functioning normally, 80% of the learning process is facilitated by the visual system.
(Sheesh! I learned that all those years ago in school and finally I had an opportunity to say it. :) )
Now, I'm not just talking about visual acuity(the 20/20 chart). There are lots of other things too like stereopsis(depth perception), color deficiencies, eyes that want to turn this way or that when they get too tired, ambliopia(lazy eye), etc.
It all plays a vital role in a child's ability to learn at a normal pace.
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socks
P-salm, I understand. I wanted to mention his Dad, but wasn't sure if that was appropriate. I also agree, help is good - help you, help the family. Part of the whole equation is what your husband is doing and how that effects the whole situation. This may not be the place to open that up, but seems like by the sounds of it there's some groundwork that needs to be laid there.
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