It is so wonderful to hear an insiders view on what was going on. I was so confused at that time because of all the misinformation. With the help of GSCafe I had already gathered lots of information and had already concluded what RD stated. I did not know how wide spread the adultery was. I am also glad to hear that not all were involved or even aware of it. RD helped me to additional information and put some things together. I hope he will provide more interviews and other high level people as well. This is very healing.
On a side note: TWI was destined to fail from its conception. It was built around one man…VPW. When VPW faded away, so did TWI. No one could have replaced VPW not even VPW because VPW, the man of God that he lead us to believe he was, never existed.
How could VPW have confronted those guys when he created them in his own image. He would have had to confront him self and that would have never happened. All VPW could do is criticize what he had created not the root of the cause…the creator, himself.
I knew Ralph when he was working with college Wows in NC during fall of '75 along with M1%^*y M@@Fn*y(from Fletcher/Arden,NC). I liked Ralph for his wackiness but sometimes serious side. BTW, I did not know he had been national trunk leader. He had been invited by Ted F*rr*ll to join Joyful Noise, but never found out why he turned down that offer. Sorry he and L are divorced. Did they ever have any kids?
Dear but now I see, (REGARDING POSTS # 82, 83, & 84)
I reread my last post and I think it was badly written and unclear. This is why you misunderstand my intentions. I hope that is why I sounded a little condescending to you also.
I do not advocate any kind of censorship as you say, for those who've read my posts I hope that it's clear that I think a full and complete airing of these things is long overdue. I have consistently applauded those who have told their story here at this site and have resisted those who seemed to want to quiet them also.
I think that the folks who seemed to require "revelation from God himself" before anyone would be allowed to deal with these issues only manages to ignore all the plainly written and simply put revelation that has already been written. And whether intentionally or not, they are only assisting the scumbags who have fought so hard to keep these things quiet for the last twenty or so years.
If I refer to my beliefs concerning the events surrounding Jesus Christ's return my only intention is to say that even if we cannot manage to get the whole story straight, he will in his day.
Over the course of the last few days I've grown more and more thankful for this sharing.
Dear EXCATHEDRA,
I'm hoping that this sharing is a blessing to you more than anyone else here. I hope that it's settling well.
"How could VPW have confronted those guys when he created them in his own image. He would have had to confront him self and that would have never happened. All VPW could do is criticize what he had created not the root of the cause…the creator, himself."
I'm sorry I reacted to something you didn't mean either, no hard feelings, I agree with you, all will come out in the end, it helps to know as much as possible now though.
I feel with this knowledge people can get healed and delivered from some of the burdens they bear as a result of twi's heavy handedness, at least those who are still living, light dispells darkness.
Peace right back at you. I'm looking for folks to get healed and delivered too.
Dear MountaintopCO and penworks,
I believe that it would have been possible for Dr. Wierwille; or anyone for that matter; to have a change of heart once the problem is made clear to them. I believe that God probably gave him many more than one opportunity to change. It looks like their was never any meaningful change however and I think most all of us ended up the worse off for it.
Dear Estimated Prophet,
Good points IMO.
Dear Excathedra,
I think that you've deserved better for a long time now and I hope that He brings better things to you more and more.
You're mighty welcome penworks! Exillary, I suspect that the most genuine side of my earliness is my age. Early in means old out. :) Seniority does have it's benefits though. I remember less and less of what I really used to be like, and more and more of what I think I used to be like.
We just picked up one of our cars today from a local shop, getting the air conditioning recharged. That's a serious environmental proposition today, requiring specialized equipment, certification, disposal methods. The service manager at this place was about my age and we got to talking and I told him how I remembered the time when I could go buy a little recharge kit and a couple cans of Freon and recharge the car's system myself, hopefully not blowing myself up in the process. We laughed, we cried, we remembered. Those days are gone - way gone, and we both know they won't be coming back this way again, ever.
That's the way the past works, y'know? Once spent, it's like a good meal - remembered but tomorrow - you're gonna need another one, good or bad, you gotta eat. What you see is what you get, y'know? Fog, be gone!
Thank you Ralph and Pawtucket. I am speechless right now as to what I've learned what was going on.
On a personal level Ralph, thank you for everything you've done for my life and others at that difficult time. I never knew the extent of what you were dealing with yet you continued to take care of the people around you.
The insanity of those times. VPW and others would sharply reproof you for saying the word “Christmas” but wouldn’t bat an eye concerning adultery. How incredibly insane.
I remember when it was said of Ralph, "He has more love for the Word of God in his little pinky than most of you have in your whole bodies," to the best of my recolection.
I have been profoundly moved by this sharing. The biggest thing that I seem to lack right now is the time to listen to it all again.
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chockfull
Why do you wonder? Can't you accept the information at face value without questioning his motives? Many people were hurt through the events and practices he addressed. That should be enough in and
MountainTopCO
It is so wonderful to hear an insiders view on what was going on. I was so confused at that time because of all the misinformation. With the help of GSCafe I had already gathered lots of information and had already concluded what RD stated. I did not know how wide spread the adultery was. I am also glad to hear that not all were involved or even aware of it. RD helped me to additional information and put some things together. I hope he will provide more interviews and other high level people as well. This is very healing.
On a side note: TWI was destined to fail from its conception. It was built around one man…VPW. When VPW faded away, so did TWI. No one could have replaced VPW not even VPW because VPW, the man of God that he lead us to believe he was, never existed.
How could VPW have confronted those guys when he created them in his own image. He would have had to confront him self and that would have never happened. All VPW could do is criticize what he had created not the root of the cause…the creator, himself.
Thank you RD and Paw.
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excathedra
'tis true i think
once the one-eyed bandit bit the dust, a lot of people woke up, got some courage, etc. (like me)
sad, eh ?
or maybe not so sad ha
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
I knew Ralph when he was working with college Wows in NC during fall of '75 along with M1%^*y M@@Fn*y(from Fletcher/Arden,NC). I liked Ralph for his wackiness but sometimes serious side. BTW, I did not know he had been national trunk leader. He had been invited by Ted F*rr*ll to join Joyful Noise, but never found out why he turned down that offer. Sorry he and L are divorced. Did they ever have any kids?
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JeffSjo
Dear but now I see, (REGARDING POSTS # 82, 83, & 84)
I reread my last post and I think it was badly written and unclear. This is why you misunderstand my intentions. I hope that is why I sounded a little condescending to you also.
I do not advocate any kind of censorship as you say, for those who've read my posts I hope that it's clear that I think a full and complete airing of these things is long overdue. I have consistently applauded those who have told their story here at this site and have resisted those who seemed to want to quiet them also.
I think that the folks who seemed to require "revelation from God himself" before anyone would be allowed to deal with these issues only manages to ignore all the plainly written and simply put revelation that has already been written. And whether intentionally or not, they are only assisting the scumbags who have fought so hard to keep these things quiet for the last twenty or so years.
If I refer to my beliefs concerning the events surrounding Jesus Christ's return my only intention is to say that even if we cannot manage to get the whole story straight, he will in his day.
Over the course of the last few days I've grown more and more thankful for this sharing.
Dear EXCATHEDRA,
I'm hoping that this sharing is a blessing to you more than anyone else here. I hope that it's settling well.
(EDITED FOR CLARITY)(spelling too)
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Estimated Prophet
Two last thoughts:
1. These experiences and influences will serve to draw us closer to your Maker,
or drive you further away.
The choice is ours.
2. A practical error which became a doctrinal error is this one:
'Obeying leadership is just like obeying God.'
Not Always.
Press On
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excathedra
thank you jeffsjoe that was really nice of you
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penworks
Ditto to this by MountaintopCO:
"How could VPW have confronted those guys when he created them in his own image. He would have had to confront him self and that would have never happened. All VPW could do is criticize what he had created not the root of the cause…the creator, himself."
peace,
penworks
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now I see
Thanks JeffSjo,
I'm sorry I reacted to something you didn't mean either, no hard feelings, I agree with you, all will come out in the end, it helps to know as much as possible now though.
I feel with this knowledge people can get healed and delivered from some of the burdens they bear as a result of twi's heavy handedness, at least those who are still living, light dispells darkness.
Peace, bro.
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JeffSjo
Dear but now I see,
Peace right back at you. I'm looking for folks to get healed and delivered too.
Dear MountaintopCO and penworks,
I believe that it would have been possible for Dr. Wierwille; or anyone for that matter; to have a change of heart once the problem is made clear to them. I believe that God probably gave him many more than one opportunity to change. It looks like their was never any meaningful change however and I think most all of us ended up the worse off for it.
Dear Estimated Prophet,
Good points IMO.
Dear Excathedra,
I think that you've deserved better for a long time now and I hope that He brings better things to you more and more.
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socks
You're mighty welcome penworks! Exillary, I suspect that the most genuine side of my earliness is my age. Early in means old out. :) Seniority does have it's benefits though. I remember less and less of what I really used to be like, and more and more of what I think I used to be like.
We just picked up one of our cars today from a local shop, getting the air conditioning recharged. That's a serious environmental proposition today, requiring specialized equipment, certification, disposal methods. The service manager at this place was about my age and we got to talking and I told him how I remembered the time when I could go buy a little recharge kit and a couple cans of Freon and recharge the car's system myself, hopefully not blowing myself up in the process. We laughed, we cried, we remembered. Those days are gone - way gone, and we both know they won't be coming back this way again, ever.
That's the way the past works, y'know? Once spent, it's like a good meal - remembered but tomorrow - you're gonna need another one, good or bad, you gotta eat. What you see is what you get, y'know?
Fog, be gone!
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Doreen
Thank you Ralph and Pawtucket. I am speechless right now as to what I've learned what was going on.
On a personal level Ralph, thank you for everything you've done for my life and others at that difficult time. I never knew the extent of what you were dealing with yet you continued to take care of the people around you.
God bless.
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MountainTopCO
The insanity of those times. VPW and others would sharply reproof you for saying the word “Christmas” but wouldn’t bat an eye concerning adultery. How incredibly insane.
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Dot Matrix
Thanks Ralph, you have always been and continue to be my hero.
One question????
What the F is an estimated prophet?
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Oakspear
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JeffSjo
I remember when it was said of Ralph, "He has more love for the Word of God in his little pinky than most of you have in your whole bodies," to the best of my recolection.
I have been profoundly moved by this sharing. The biggest thing that I seem to lack right now is the time to listen to it all again.
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frank123lol
Thanks for sharing Ralph,Up here in Michigan we did not have a clue.
When you resigned ,They (twi) did thier evil spin,Not worth repeating,I am sure you heard it.
Glad to "hear" you are allright.Even though it is old news it needs to be said.
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Steveo
Actually its a Grateful Dead song.....
PS My impression of a Grateful Dead concert was that it was like the "Rock of Ages"........ only no Bibles and lotsa weird music and drugs
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excathedra
awwww thank you jeff and socksie and anyone whoever acknowledges me
i don't always go back and read stuff after i post
or it takes me a while
i'm good
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Shellon
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Estimated Prophet
For those interested,
The Estimated Prophet is a song by the Grateful Dead
about a wigged out Jesus Freak who was always on a rant at their shows.
I only found that out recently,
but the song did inspire me to go out WoW in 82.
"Don't worry 'bout me No"
Peace
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GrouchoMarxJr
...If "Estimated Prophet" inspired you to go WOW...did "Ship of Fools" inspire you to leave twi?
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jen-o
NOT EVER!
we ought to obey God and NOT man!
true shepherds always point the flock toward Jesus...
they do NOT give out orders to obey... EVER!
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Estimated Prophet
As a matter of fact, Groucho, It Did !!
( how did you know? )
" Don't lend a hand to wave no flag
atop no Ship of Fools "
Then I bounced right into
"Going Down the Road and Feeling Bad,
Don't wanna be treated this-a-Way"
And don't you know the words sank in real deep
I like to think my Captain of Salvation was singing it along with me !!
maybe not ...but
It sure would make a good soundtrack for the
Cutting Through the Fog movie
And who do you suppose would be the first mate that rocked the boat?
Peter Wade maybe ...?
....
and Jen-O
I stand corrected.
I think you just hit The Mark !
Thank You
Keep Trucking
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excathedra
thank you shell, i love you
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