Cutting Through the Fog

[pawtucket]

For the 8th anniversary of GS cafe, I have a very special guest. He was the third trunk coordinator of The Way International during the biggest expansion of The Way. He also served as a Corps Coordinator.We talk about the last days in the life of VP Wierwille. And then through the reading of the Passing of the Patriarch onto the events that led to the 37 page letter sent to the Board of Trustees in early 1987.

The Interview

Edited April 20, 2008 by pawtucket

[doojable]

:eusa_clap:

[Shellon]

:)

[PurpleDays]

Exceptional. Very fitting for the 8th anniversary of GSC. Great truth stated succinctly and honestly from a loving, Godly heart.

Thanks to both of you.

PurpleDays

[dmiller]

It is SO good to hear Ralph's voice again! He was one of the *Good Guys*.

I never did get tired of hearing him talk --- eveything he ever said was *on topic*;

whatever the topic at the time might have been.

Thanks Paw for this broadcast, and thank you Ralph. :)

You filled in a few blanks for me about the early days of CES,

and the other reminiscing about twi held some new *revelations* as well.

Will there be a sequel to this?? If not --- cool, but I hope there is.

Seems like there's *the rest of the story* to be told.

Edited April 20, 2008 by dmiller

[rhino]

WOW ... several pieces there I hadn't heard, though maybe it is in the archives somewhere.

It seems Ralph made the sensible decision about not jumping into a splinter. I hope he is doing well.

I was a little surprised he didn't seem to know about how widespread the sex stuff was, considering how prevalent it was among "leadership". Of course I didn't know either, though I had some fairly direct hints from some 9th corps ... along the lines of being able to handle it, or that it was only spiritual adultery that was wrong, (which is pretty absurd). And vp's secretary being very upset, but not quite revealing it either. Everyone was willing to hide the "bare" facts.

It seems it took vp dying for the "spell" to be broken. But it was good to hear how direct Ralph was in confronting those that revealed it and those that then wanted to continue it, which is also rather amazing. LCM seemed convinced he was healing people ...

I'd have to think vp was aware he was wrong, which was what his secretary hinted to me, as I recall. But he wasn't above covering his arse by making up doctrine and involving others ... but maybe he thought he was just one of those "crookeder than a dog's hind leg' type "prophets". How could vp go to Geer about how messed up leadership was, and not recognize he started it? One of those cognitive dissonance things perhaps. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Good gawd ...

Anyway ... hopefully there are some follow ups, though that seemed to be the meat of Ralph's story. It is still a shame we all walked away and the dishonest scammers kept the assets, and are even still tax exempt and functional.

Oh, and happy anniversary ... eight .. that is a new beginning ... or in a marriage it is pottery and bronze ...

[waysider]

Anybody who can listen to this stuff and still defend VP ought to just give up and join the flat earth society.

Thank You!!

[excathedra]

i love ralph

it's been a tough road

Edited April 20, 2008 by excathedra

[now I see]

Thanks Ralph and Paw!

I am amazed and disgusted that so many were involved in this destructive lifestyle, and how deep the deciet and coverup went, as well as the befuddlement and inability of those in charge to move through it successfully to the other side.  Amazing how crusty and lost some of them really were, and how much we, the rank and file, were unaware and in the dark on the big picture.

Too bad more information concerning G*ere's role, actions, behavior, hasn't been known, especially to those who follow him now, he's still a bit of an enigma.    

Kudo's to Pat Lynn, there were so few who made that effort, I'm so glad she had Ralph there.

Edited April 21, 2008 by but now I see

[Galen]

Paw -

Thank you,

May God bless you and keep you

Galen

[skyrider]

Thanks Ralph.

Hearing all this from someone who was THERE.....seeing vpw before his departure to gartmore, then the subsequent areas of top leadership, the yak twig, the inside 'track' of hearing multiple sexual abuse allegations, and all the craziness that ended with your resignation from twi in 'house arrest' and etc, etc,......A RARE GLIMPSE to see thru 'this darkened twi-window' of deception and cover-up.

I appreciate your labor of love.......then and now.

You, Ralph.......are the REAL DEAL.

[waysider]

So much for the "no one physically restrained you" argument, eh?

[Rocky]

Why is RD not identified in the email or at the beginning of the interview?

[DogLover]

Excellent, Ralph! (and thank you, Paw) It was wonderful to hear your voice again, Ralph, and even more wonderful to finally have all the "pieces" filled in as to what happened in those years ... this sure cut through the fog!

Thanks for your time and your heart!

DogLover

[waysider]

Why is RD not identified in the email or at the beginning of the interview?

Though he is not immediately identified by name, he is certainly identified by the position he held, which is probably more relevant to the subject at hand. (IMO)

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I always thought it odd that Corps would go so out of their way to deny that "real" adultery was wrong, and that scriptures referring to it really meant "spiritual" adultery, i.e., idolatry. I would try to point out that God wouldn't use adultery as an illustration of idolatry, IF THERE WERE NOTHING WRONG WITH ADULTERY! Deaf ears.

George

Edited April 21, 2008 by GeorgeStGeorge

[polar bear]

Thanks Ralph and Paw

Ralph -Glad you had the guts to speak up. At least you can sleep well at night.

Those who were involved in the adultery know that what they were doing was wrong, they just didn't want to give up their good times.

They are the ones who will have to answer one day.

I wish I had known about these things long ago. I had my doubts for many years before I finally made my decision.

What a crock the ministry was.

Bless your heart.

[BackForty]

Ralph,

You were the man then and you are the man now. Thank you.

This is the first installment of GreaseSpot Radio that I have listened to. It ends at the time I left. So, it is extra special to me as it concerns my final days. I did not know my corps coordinator had been fired a month before I left.

I first heard of this activity shortly after vpw's passing. A woman in my twig that had been involved longer than myself had been on staff at hq. She was approached by vpw and turned him down. Naturally at the time I was shocked. I cannot recall what I said to her if anything. Then I recalled a late night bless patrol shift at Emporia. At least I wasn't stuck out in the back forty this time! I was to watch the coach behind the library but not approach it. During the night a tall slender girl with long straight hair approached the coach. She was not carrying anything in her hands. She entered the coach. I never saw her come out before my shift ended. Of course this doesn't mean anything other than it made me think. What was going on that night?

My hat if off to Pat for contacting people over the years. I do hope God will heal her heart also.

It brings tears to my eyes to think what my corps sisters had to deal with. Along with so many other members outside of the corps household. I do hope their hearts have healed over this.

[Eyesopen]

Kudos to both of you, Paw and RD! The interview was done very well and the quality is very good. The subject was of course, something that had to be said. I love your hearts! Thank you both for sharing that with us. I like many others have mixed feelings about "the rest of the story". It needs to be known but I really wish that there had been no 'story' to tell, at least of that nature.

Love you both

[Ham]

Thanks Ralph.. still, it gave me a sick feeling seeing a closer look at what kind of "ministry" I was actually supporting at the time..

just pass the immodium..

[rhino]

I always thought it odd that Corps would go so out of their way to deny that "real" adultery was wrong, and that scriptures referring to it really meant "spiritual" adultery, i.e., idolatry. I would try to point out that God wouldn't use adultery as an illustration of idolatry, IF THERE WERE NOTHING WRONG WITH ADULTERY! Deaf ears.

It seems rather obvious, doesn't it.

In my day, before '86, I don't think that was outwardly taught, it was more like the secret teaching that gave the OK to those that were in on the sexcapades ... I think. Of course as you point out, it was obviously wrong doctrine, which was the real reason for keeping it hush hush. But I think that "inner sanctum" viewed it as superior knowledge, which no doubt added to problems in uniting the corps body, as those running things had this secret underworld.

Of course then Schoenheit gets excommunicated for having the gall to point out the obvious .... and Cummins was apparently willing to overlook the obvious .. I forget exactly what Ralph said Walter's response was, but it seemed along the lines of not wanting to cause division. So much for "it is written"

But maybe later it was the accepted policy for some time. When Jalvis came around after he had left twi, he did a little teaching at someone's house and I kinda groaned when he said he didn't know it was wrong ... and he said well, he probably could have, or should have figured it out. Duh ...

If a clear headed person was on the scene in the meltdown period, I wonder if there could have been more legal action. Ralph was basically held against his will ....all the sexual abuse could have gone to court ... TWI could have been confiscated and turned over to its real membership ... then everyone could have voted on new leaders. All adulterers could have been sent packing, especially the ones that promoted it as doctrine.

Other than lcm, how many really faced any punishment? Those that toed the party line actually got promoted. Apparently there was even a time when all the corps remaining got a paycheck.

I think Foster smyth went to sell fish in Indianapolis ... it seems like it was the new window cleaning replacement sort of like "I go a fishing" Ha ...

[freeone]

Excellent interview! I agree with an earlier post about this sounding like there is "more to the story," but then again that's a familiar story to many of us isn't it? I am so grateful for my life now, it sometimes seems like those old days is almost like a dream, but it's always good to remember what God delivered me from to help me stay grateful for where I'm at!

[Seth R.]

For the 8th anniversary of GS cafe, I have a very special guest. He was the third trunk coordinator of The Way International during the biggest expansion of The Way. He also served as a Corps Coordinator.We talk about the last days in the life of VP Wierwille. And then through the reading of the Passing of the Patriarch onto the events that led to the 37 page letter sent to the Board of Trustees in early 1987.

The Interview

Wow, just finished listening to that episode. I've been out since Dec of '94 so all I heard from '87 to '94 was a mix of Geer's cryptic regurgitations from his West Coast Cronies, and TWI party line like the *gag-gag* leadership tapes from LCM et al.

So 14 years later it's very healing to hear what was shared, I hope you have more from this person and hopefully others who were top leaders who left will come forward to share their awakenings.

I haven't had any revelation in a long time, and I think that's a good thing.

Seth

[penworks]

I, too, am very glad this interview is available here. It provides a very important perspective and record of events that have impacted so many lives in such destructive ways. Thanks, Paw and thanks to you "third trunk leader" for posting it.

cheers!

penworks

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Great interview!...

...As mentioned by others, it filled in a lot of blanks but more than that...it was a first hand account from a former top leader... Ralph should be commended for his straight forward honesty and the courage to tell his story. I think that the interview provides not only some "enlightening" information but also a credible source for people who seek answers.

I find it incredible that these former "inner circle" boys could actually believe that adulterous sex was ok...even as the "ministry" was falling apart at the seams, they STILL continued their hedonistic practices...God's elite?...The average guy walking down the street knows that adultery is wrong...but they thought it was ok?...musta been that "spiritual perception" that they talked about all the time...