Coming face to face with an ordained madman by loy, a limb coordinator and later region coordinator who had a third grade mentality, an apparent maximum of a fourth grade education, some bizarre beliefs about not eating bread and vegetables, so as to avert gastrointestinal disaster, a strange opinion that water could somehow be sparked together so as to make water and energy, delusions of grandeur, megalomania and outright poor judgement, yet ironically, somehow had a quite intelligent "fox" for a wife.. whom I don't have a clue of what she saw in him, nor why she would want to willingly donate to the cause so as he could contribute to the established gene pool.. probably a marriage made by the loyster himself.
Or the couple who came before them, who insisted on selling stuff local believers basically gave them, back to the local believers..
I think between those two things, I didn't have much of a problem seeing what what the "ministry" had become.
I was in twi in 1986 but still new enough and removed enough not to really see what was going on, plus by then I was "married in" to the mob and just couldn't leave. But I experieced what you described during the Alan lawsuit... by then I had had my fill of twi and was just about ready to chuck it all anyway, and then the lawsuit hit and it was my breaking point. Up 'til then I could still somehow justify everything to myself, but after that whatever illusions I had left were completely shattered and I felt free to leave, knowing it wasn't me that had failed.
I have always believed it was a move of God, as we all left pretty much at the same time. I think after POP and that awful corps week, God worked in many, many of us that it was time to go. We had grown up, were now in our '30s, were starting to think for ourselves. The door was open, we went, with no loss of "face."
The younger generation, was where we were when we were young, but under LCM not VP. They had the mentality we had as youngsters - they were going to stick with him no matter what. I tried talking to a couple of young corps men and I realized, they'd have to grow up and figure it out for themselves.
I think the Allen lawsuit was God's move and their door.
I've always seen it as two "moves" or waves, or exoduses. One for the first generation, one for the next.
Until Corps Week 1986, None of us had much of an inkling as to the upcoming TWI collapse. As for me, I started to see many reasons to get out, but as most of us the condemnation was too great to leave. The events of the months after 1986 gave me the perfect way to get out and not feel bad about it. Do many of you feel the same way as I did about this?
I think you have touched on a significant point...For years, many folks knew "something" was wrong...the events after 1986 opened the floodgates for people to leave...and leave they did.
I never hesitated in leaving twi when I realized (in part) what was goping on...the tipping point for me was when lcm tried to micromanage every twig...he wanted me to fill out weekly reports telling him who was "faithful" and who was not...I refused.
Until Corps Week 1986, None of us had much of an inkling as to the upcoming TWI collapse. As for me, I started to see many reasons to get out, but as most of us the condemnation was too great to leave. The events of the months after 1986 gave me the perfect way to get out and not feel bad about it. Do many of you feel the same way as I did about this?
I think you have touched on a significant point...For years, many folks knew "something" was wrong...the events after 1986 opened the floodgates for people to leave...and leave they did.
I never hesitated in leaving twi when I realized (in part) what was goping on...the tipping point for me was when lcm tried to micromanage every twig...he wanted me to fill out weekly reports telling him who was "faithful" and who was not...I refused.
Some great points! I fell into the clueless category - the time after the Passing of a Patriarch was major turmoil for me. Because in all that commotion a feeling of dread came over me - that something was very wrong...I could not articulate it at the time...but that's when the technician in me was re-activated - I am a born troubleshooter ...I am a technician by trade and love to figure out how things work or troubleshoot them when they don't...That's when I began to analyze and assess EVERYTHING...and slowly realized that the current TWI crisis wasn't a glitch in the system or a faulty component - it was a faulty design from the get-go.
Many of us were so conditioned against "thinking evil" that it was difficult to even think, let alone say out loud, that we thought that there were problems. Red flags poked against our consciousness. Most of us believed in TWI, PFAL, our leaders, thought we were part of a great move of God.
I think the idea that the events of 1986 provided a perfect escape to be quite plausible.
The exodus of 2000 wasn't all that different. Some of us had stayed in during the 90's to try to change things from within, some of us didn't get in until the 90's, I had been inactive during the mid-80's and got back in in 1990. We too wanted to believe that we were part of something good, something right, but also were cponditioned to not speak or think evil. It was Martindale's hypocrisy as he railed against all manner of sin and transgression, throwing people out for minor weakness (unproductive evil?), while he was screwing other men's wives, that opened our eyes to the rottenness of TWI and gave us the perfect reason to get out.
and i thought i was the only one who served time twice in twi... LOL
i originally got involved in the spring of 1981... and continued involvement thru the spring of 1987... at which point, everyone in my area disbanned and left twi (due to events that i was totally unaware of), but making it very easy for me to leave since for all intents and purposes, twi no longer existed in my area... i then became re-involved in early 1994 which lasted until i was unceremoniously dismissed (for not following the program) via a mock trial in 1997...
personally, i never tried to fix anything because i didn't know anything was broken at the time... and basically, i had never pledged allegiance to twi or any mogfot... so my time "in" twi consisted of my living in my own bubble (so to speak) and making my own decisions... which drove the "leadership" crazy (evidently) because i never did consider them "leadership" and was unaware that i was suppose to follow their advice, um, orders... LOL...
being a grown adult, i lived my life the way i saw fit... and i've got to say: i was oblivious to the fact that they saw themselves as "better" or more intelligent or more spiritual that me... i was oblivious right up until the "mock trial" they held to condemn me for my "rebellion" against them...
looking back, i must admit that it was pretty funny... they didn't quite know what to do with me... they were just wringing their hands in frustration over the fact that i didn't follow their "orders" while i cluelessly went about my business, totally unaware that they held a worldview that consisted of them being "in charge"... LOLOL
they really thought more highly of themselves than they should have...
That would mean that those of us that stayed past the great exodus were lesser......
...and that brings up a good point. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter when a person got in or got out...there was no "lesser"...or "greater"...every person's situation was unique and different. We all did things according to our own timetables...according to our own experiences and according to our own hearts. "I got out a year before you did and therefore I'm smarter"...is the same as saying "I'm 6th corps and you're only 8th corps, therefore I'm more spiritual"...
The criteria that I look at is...Did you get out?...That's the main question...if the answer is "yes"...let's go break the 2 beer limit.
Yep, for me personally, I don't think I could have left without experiencing things the way we did. VP's many visits to our campus before his death, POP read during corps night then us being assigned to a place where the limb and area guys came back from the clergy meeting and told everything that happened. It was big red flags, red lights, blaring sirens for me...that's why I was so amazed everyone else didn't leave, but as Groucho pointed out...
We all did things according to our own timetables...according to our own experiences and according to our own hearts. "I got out a year before you did and therefore I'm smarter"...is the same as saying "I'm 6th corps and you're only 8th corps, therefore I'm more spiritual"...
I know I'm guilty of thinking I was so cool for leaving earlier than some... ...sorry...idiocy on my part.
Part of the "when I got out" heirarchy was (or is, as the case may be) due to lingering WayBrain. When involved in TWI we were indoctrinated into the mindset that people who left were "copouts". It takes some work to purge the mind of some of that thinking.
Spare a thought for those of us who were just jumping into the water at that time. Course, in the 51st state we were a bit more autonomous (well anyway it was well before Loy's intense control freakery of the 90s) and in the mid-80s everyone was enthusiastic for setting up Gartmore and that's where energies were focused. Was PoP in 86? (Thought it was later.) Not a word of it hit the streets where I was.
Twinky, if I remember right, VP died in spring of 1985 which means POP hit almost one year later. BUT, much of the fallout didn't hit the field until the following year. I know I only heard about everything in the spring of 1987... right before I went in-rez.
Recommended Posts
Ham
Coming face to face with an ordained madman by loy, a limb coordinator and later region coordinator who had a third grade mentality, an apparent maximum of a fourth grade education, some bizarre beliefs about not eating bread and vegetables, so as to avert gastrointestinal disaster, a strange opinion that water could somehow be sparked together so as to make water and energy, delusions of grandeur, megalomania and outright poor judgement, yet ironically, somehow had a quite intelligent "fox" for a wife.. whom I don't have a clue of what she saw in him, nor why she would want to willingly donate to the cause so as he could contribute to the established gene pool.. probably a marriage made by the loyster himself.
Or the couple who came before them, who insisted on selling stuff local believers basically gave them, back to the local believers..
I think between those two things, I didn't have much of a problem seeing what what the "ministry" had become.
Does that answer your question?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
I was in twi in 1986 but still new enough and removed enough not to really see what was going on, plus by then I was "married in" to the mob and just couldn't leave. But I experieced what you described during the Alan lawsuit... by then I had had my fill of twi and was just about ready to chuck it all anyway, and then the lawsuit hit and it was my breaking point. Up 'til then I could still somehow justify everything to myself, but after that whatever illusions I had left were completely shattered and I felt free to leave, knowing it wasn't me that had failed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
I have always believed it was a move of God, as we all left pretty much at the same time. I think after POP and that awful corps week, God worked in many, many of us that it was time to go. We had grown up, were now in our '30s, were starting to think for ourselves. The door was open, we went, with no loss of "face."
The younger generation, was where we were when we were young, but under LCM not VP. They had the mentality we had as youngsters - they were going to stick with him no matter what. I tried talking to a couple of young corps men and I realized, they'd have to grow up and figure it out for themselves.
I think the Allen lawsuit was God's move and their door.
I've always seen it as two "moves" or waves, or exoduses. One for the first generation, one for the next.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
I think you have touched on a significant point...For years, many folks knew "something" was wrong...the events after 1986 opened the floodgates for people to leave...and leave they did.
I never hesitated in leaving twi when I realized (in part) what was goping on...the tipping point for me was when lcm tried to micromanage every twig...he wanted me to fill out weekly reports telling him who was "faithful" and who was not...I refused.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Some great points! I fell into the clueless category - the time after the Passing of a Patriarch was major turmoil for me. Because in all that commotion a feeling of dread came over me - that something was very wrong...I could not articulate it at the time...but that's when the technician in me was re-activated - I am a born troubleshooter
...I am a technician by trade and love to figure out how things work or troubleshoot them when they don't...That's when I began to analyze and assess EVERYTHING...and slowly realized that the current TWI crisis wasn't a glitch in the system or a faulty component - it was a faulty design from the get-go.
Edited by T-BoneLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Articulated well, pea.
Many of us were so conditioned against "thinking evil" that it was difficult to even think, let alone say out loud, that we thought that there were problems. Red flags poked against our consciousness. Most of us believed in TWI, PFAL, our leaders, thought we were part of a great move of God.
I think the idea that the events of 1986 provided a perfect escape to be quite plausible.
The exodus of 2000 wasn't all that different. Some of us had stayed in during the 90's to try to change things from within, some of us didn't get in until the 90's, I had been inactive during the mid-80's and got back in in 1990. We too wanted to believe that we were part of something good, something right, but also were cponditioned to not speak or think evil. It was Martindale's hypocrisy as he railed against all manner of sin and transgression, throwing people out for minor weakness (unproductive evil?), while he was screwing other men's wives, that opened our eyes to the rottenness of TWI and gave us the perfect reason to get out.
Edited by OakspearLink to comment
Share on other sites
jen-o
hey oak!
so you did 2 stints in the joint, too... LOL
and i thought i was the only one who served time twice in twi... LOL
i originally got involved in the spring of 1981... and continued involvement thru the spring of 1987... at which point, everyone in my area disbanned and left twi (due to events that i was totally unaware of), but making it very easy for me to leave since for all intents and purposes, twi no longer existed in my area... i then became re-involved in early 1994 which lasted until i was unceremoniously dismissed (for not following the program) via a mock trial in 1997...
personally, i never tried to fix anything because i didn't know anything was broken at the time... and basically, i had never pledged allegiance to twi or any mogfot... so my time "in" twi consisted of my living in my own bubble (so to speak) and making my own decisions... which drove the "leadership" crazy (evidently) because i never did consider them "leadership" and was unaware that i was suppose to follow their advice, um, orders... LOL...
being a grown adult, i lived my life the way i saw fit... and i've got to say: i was oblivious to the fact that they saw themselves as "better" or more intelligent or more spiritual that me... i was oblivious right up until the "mock trial" they held to condemn me for my "rebellion" against them...
looking back, i must admit that it was pretty funny... they didn't quite know what to do with me... they were just wringing their hands in frustration over the fact that i didn't follow their "orders" while i cluelessly went about my business, totally unaware that they held a worldview that consisted of them being "in charge"... LOLOL
they really thought more highly of themselves than they should have...
peace,
jen-o
Edited by jen-oLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ductape
That would mean that those of us that stayed past the great exodus were lesser......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I went to twig until about 1990 at which time I simply drifted away due to other obligations.
It felt pretty weird at first being "outside the household".
The twig I attended was a very old established twig.
The leaders knew almost everybody from the early, early days.(1950's and 1960's)
I'm quite certain they were never involved in any of this but they must have known.
Still, I never heard a word about any of this stuff until I came to GSC.
The whole time between 1990 and when I stumbled into GSC, I felt like a real cop-out for leaving.
HaHa! I sure as heck don't feel like that anymore.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
...and that brings up a good point. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter when a person got in or got out...there was no "lesser"...or "greater"...every person's situation was unique and different. We all did things according to our own timetables...according to our own experiences and according to our own hearts. "I got out a year before you did and therefore I'm smarter"...is the same as saying "I'm 6th corps and you're only 8th corps, therefore I'm more spiritual"...
The criteria that I look at is...Did you get out?...That's the main question...if the answer is "yes"...let's go break the 2 beer limit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Well said, Groucho !!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tonto
Yep, for me personally, I don't think I could have left without experiencing things the way we did. VP's many visits to our campus before his death, POP read during corps night then us being assigned to a place where the limb and area guys came back from the clergy meeting and told everything that happened. It was big red flags, red lights, blaring sirens for me...that's why I was so amazed everyone else didn't leave, but as Groucho pointed out...
I know I'm guilty of thinking I was so cool for leaving earlier than some...Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Part of the "when I got out" heirarchy was (or is, as the case may be) due to lingering WayBrain. When involved in TWI we were indoctrinated into the mindset that people who left were "copouts". It takes some work to purge the mind of some of that thinking.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Spare a thought for those of us who were just jumping into the water at that time. Course, in the 51st state we were a bit more autonomous (well anyway it was well before Loy's intense control freakery of the 90s) and in the mid-80s everyone was enthusiastic for setting up Gartmore and that's where energies were focused. Was PoP in 86? (Thought it was later.) Not a word of it hit the streets where I was.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Twinky, if I remember right, VP died in spring of 1985 which means POP hit almost one year later. BUT, much of the fallout didn't hit the field until the following year. I know I only heard about everything in the spring of 1987... right before I went in-rez.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.