Well I tried that with twi, but someone else got all the money :o
does not surprise me that a critter like Tolle is popular with new agers
and though his message is potentially an antidote to the mess of "The Secret"
his message is sure to be twisted into a mess by some new-agers and others
I'm lost here really ... I don't know what "new age" is all about ... does it include the power of the mind ... to overcome and be happy ... think positive, don't worry be happy?
Oprah does seem to get it...and i hope she can tell the difference between "The Secret" and Tolle's work
Tolle's message really is in a different class than modern new age "gimme-gimme" stuff stuff
...more of a post-modern synthesis of many esoteric contemplative wisdom traditions
(yes...even jesus was deeply esoteric and deeply contemplative)
and i feel Tolle really has done a good job of interpreting/translating the original common heart of most of the world's old religions in the form of what is often called "pointing out instructions"...as all the ancient rabbis and gurus and such used
which is something that is not typically discovered naturally in life
but has to be taught by someone who was taught
from having been developed over many generations
..like any good bread recipe
Well that is interesting ... sort of an evolved philosophy? But from the Fox quote, Tolle arrived at this by being homeless and then moving out west and then it all came to him, like by revelation, the way it was described.
...which then blinds us to many important differences in religious thought and behaviour
where we have almost no way of recognizing the difference between authentic wisdom and magic
...or between functional historic religious practices and modern religious dysfunctional cultic fantasies
thus, many have fallen into narcissistic ambiguity of a billion private little religions
that are mostly empty of any historic connection to an actual functional practice, or discipline
It does seem we have almost derided the traditional in favor of some charlatans ..but then maybe there is nothing new under the sun.
...and all this in a sea of utterly failing religious institutions
where all we have are the many many bad examples
...thus all the cynicism
God help us
unless we use different words...use words differently...or make up new languages
or something else
we may be stuck here a very long time
Actually I'm lost in your terminology, mostly. But it seems with our new age of instant communication with all news and every philosophy ... wikipedia and google will save us all ... or destroy us.
I don't know what it means, it just seemed interesting that the Oprah trademark (is Oprah also a person ) has added a "religion" to its brand ... or that is sorta how it struck me. It reminds me of Wal-Mart expanding into the grocery business with its superstores ... and putting local groceries out of business ...
Is Oprah (or WalMart) like a black hole? They reach a certain size and just start sucking in everything around them ... Oprah is helping name presidential candidates and adding millions to the Tolle experience ... just because she is Oprah ... but maybe it is a good thing to discuss ...
Oprah is probably big enough to be beyond a cult, she may be a religion ... people faithfully listen to her, and she rakes in millions by promoting products ... she makes double what Spielberg makes ... surely that qualifies as major religion level income.
But from the Fox quote, Tolle arrived at this by being homeless and then moving out west and then it all came to him, like by revelation, the way it was described.
yeah...he had profound experience that changed his life
but that is a very crude reduction of his entire life experience
even without a teacher or guide...painful experiences in life have a profound way of waking people up to radical states and stages of consciousness
some of the most profound realizers in this world woke up because some horrible experience or condition simply shattered the ego's hold on the mind
being able to read beyond taboos...and being well read in contemplative traditions simply help find languages for the experience
Actually I'm lost in your terminology, mostly
what terms or terminology are you lost in?
contemplative and esoteric are the only uncommon terms i used
...and they arent that hard to figure out, are they?
I'm lost here really ... I don't know what "new age" is all about ... does it include the power of the mind ... to overcome and be happy ... think positive, don't worry be happy?
it seems so. and not much different than TWI's formulas. ...which is like the magical thinking of a 2 year old
...contemplative spirituality is more or less the direct opposite of all that
it is partially about resting in a very big subjective field...and simply noticing what is
and uses words like surrender, witness, being, no-mind, etc...
it is a feminine motherly approach to wisdom (not female...but feminine as in a descending dove)
and has more to do with disciplines of silence, observation, listening, feeling, etc...
than preaching, thinking, acting, etc...
related to both sophia and agape
which is why the rich history of contemplative spiritually is very closely tied to the end-of-life experience
such as hospice, and grief work, and rites of passage
surely not a calling for slouches or people who seek only comfort and safety and happiness
where many of the monks and nuns (east and west) learned to live lives of contemplation in order to serve those who are in the most radical of transitions
...imagine practicing being silent and still for hours every day...for years
and trying to staying awake and aware!
sound familiar?
new age is often about saving and fixing and fleeing death and suffering...seeking safety and peace for one's self
or one's favorite group of people
...contemplatives learn most from the pain and shadows of the human condition in order to help alleviate suffering
they lean directly into the textured and often painful wilderness of thought, feeling, consciousness, dreams, visions, etc...
as opposed to controlling thought in order to get stuff and things and be happy and safe
sometimes people are initiated into greater contemplative awareness by situations of life
and sometimes people are initiated by an elder, or teacher, or rabbi, or guru
but the world has many rich legacies of contemplative practices and teachers and methods
..like i said...almost always connected to the art of dying...where everyone becomes spiritual
for the most part...our culture and media flat out rejects any difference between very noisy very busy mythic religion
and the deeper traditions of actual contemplative practices and disciplines
contemplative and esoteric are the only uncommon terms i used
...and they arent that hard to figure out, are they?
Well, here is what I didn't quite grasp
Tolle's message really is in a different class than modern new age "gimme-gimme" stuff stuff
...more of a post-modern synthesis of many esoteric contemplative wisdom traditions
...
but a big problem with mentioning this idea these days is...
that our language and media has been going headfirst into an extreme post-modern phase for almost 50 years
which basically means that in our passion to equalize everything for everyone
we reject the value of certain range of important critical distinctions
not exclusively, but often in terms of consciousness and other subjective variations
That last line seemed like a doozy, but your last post makes some sense ... I think :) Maybe Oprah will bring world peace ... but she doesn't seem a passive observer, more like one that makes it happen by her mental powers ...
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sirguessalot
oh cmon rhino
you know that if you could
you might tell the world what you believe
and why..
and the experiences that led to such realizations
and what you think life is about
and how to find peace and such
and maybe even get paid a little for your trouble
besides...
if you were really good at such a thing
and in demand
...is everyone going to come to your house or something?
bring their own recorders?
...
does not surprise me that a critter like Tolle is popular with new agers
and though his message is potentially an antidote to the mess of "The Secret"
his message is sure to be twisted into a mess by some new-agers and others
..as well as by the Fox writers ... that article reads like a way mag critique of something out of the writer's league
Oprah does seem to get it...and i hope she can tell the difference between "The Secret" and Tolle's work
...
Tolle's message really is in a different class than modern new age "gimme-gimme" stuff stuff
...more of a post-modern synthesis of many esoteric contemplative wisdom traditions
(yes...even jesus was deeply esoteric and deeply contemplative)
and i feel Tolle really has done a good job of interpreting/translating the original common heart of most of the world's old religions
in the form of what is often called "pointing out instructions"...as all the ancient rabbis and gurus and such used
which is something that is not typically discovered naturally in life
but has to be taught by someone who was taught
from having been developed over many generations
..like any good bread recipe
...
but a big problem with mentioning this idea these days is...
that our language and media has been going headfirst into an extreme post-modern phase for almost 50 years
which basically means that in our passion to equalize everything for everyone
we reject the value of certain range of important critical distinctions
not exclusively, but often in terms of consciousness and other subjective variations
which then blinds us to many important differences in religious thought and behaviour
where we have almost no way of recognizing the difference between authentic wisdom and magic
...or between functional historic religious practices and modern religious dysfunctional cultic fantasies
thus, many have fallen into narcissistic ambiguity of a billion private little religions
that are mostly empty of any historic connection to an actual functional practice, or discipline
sadly, we stopped being interested in such things many generations ago
...yet continue to use all the languages and texts (not just bible, either)
...and all this in a sea of utterly failing religious institutions
where all we have are the many many bad examples
...thus all the cynicism
God help us
unless we use different words...use words differently...or make up new languages
or something else
we may be stuck here a very long time
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
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rhino
Well I tried that with twi, but someone else got all the money :o
I'm lost here really ... I don't know what "new age" is all about ... does it include the power of the mind ... to overcome and be happy ... think positive, don't worry be happy?Well that is interesting ... sort of an evolved philosophy? But from the Fox quote, Tolle arrived at this by being homeless and then moving out west and then it all came to him, like by revelation, the way it was described.
It does seem we have almost derided the traditional in favor of some charlatans ..but then maybe there is nothing new under the sun.Actually I'm lost in your terminology, mostly. But it seems with our new age of instant communication with all news and every philosophy ... wikipedia and google will save us all ... or destroy us.
I don't know what it means, it just seemed interesting that the Oprah trademark (is Oprah also a person
) has added a "religion" to its brand ... or that is sorta how it struck me. It reminds me of Wal-Mart expanding into the grocery business with its superstores ... and putting local groceries out of business ...
Is Oprah (or WalMart) like a black hole? They reach a certain size and just start sucking in everything around them ... Oprah is helping name presidential candidates and adding millions to the Tolle experience ... just because she is Oprah ... but maybe it is a good thing to discuss ...
Oprah is probably big enough to be beyond a cult, she may be a religion ... people faithfully listen to her, and she rakes in millions by promoting products ... she makes double what Spielberg makes ... surely that qualifies as major religion level income.
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sirguessalot
but that is a very crude reduction of his entire life experience
even without a teacher or guide...painful experiences in life have a profound way of waking people up to radical states and stages of consciousness
some of the most profound realizers in this world woke up because some horrible experience or condition simply shattered the ego's hold on the mind
being able to read beyond taboos...and being well read in contemplative traditions simply help find languages for the experience
what terms or terminology are you lost in?
contemplative and esoteric are the only uncommon terms i used
...and they arent that hard to figure out, are they?
it seems so. and not much different than TWI's formulas. ...which is like the magical thinking of a 2 year old
...contemplative spirituality is more or less the direct opposite of all that
it is partially about resting in a very big subjective field...and simply noticing what is
and uses words like surrender, witness, being, no-mind, etc...
it is a feminine motherly approach to wisdom (not female...but feminine as in a descending dove)
and has more to do with disciplines of silence, observation, listening, feeling, etc...
than preaching, thinking, acting, etc...
related to both sophia and agape
which is why the rich history of contemplative spiritually is very closely tied to the end-of-life experience
such as hospice, and grief work, and rites of passage
surely not a calling for slouches or people who seek only comfort and safety and happiness
where many of the monks and nuns (east and west) learned to live lives of contemplation in order to serve those who are in the most radical of transitions
...imagine practicing being silent and still for hours every day...for years
and trying to staying awake and aware!
sound familiar?
new age is often about saving and fixing and fleeing death and suffering...seeking safety and peace for one's self
or one's favorite group of people
...contemplatives learn most from the pain and shadows of the human condition in order to help alleviate suffering
they lean directly into the textured and often painful wilderness of thought, feeling, consciousness, dreams, visions, etc...
as opposed to controlling thought in order to get stuff and things and be happy and safe
sometimes people are initiated into greater contemplative awareness by situations of life
and sometimes people are initiated by an elder, or teacher, or rabbi, or guru
but the world has many rich legacies of contemplative practices and teachers and methods
..like i said...almost always connected to the art of dying...where everyone becomes spiritual
for the most part...our culture and media flat out rejects any difference between very noisy very busy mythic religion
and the deeper traditions of actual contemplative practices and disciplines
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
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rhino
Well, here is what I didn't quite grasp
That last line seemed like a doozy, but your last post makes some sense ... I think :) Maybe Oprah will bring world peace ... but she doesn't seem a passive observer, more like one that makes it happen by her mental powers ...
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