this is a public forum not brain surgery, Im wondering if maybe you could take some time to read some posts and maybe then you wont feel so sensitive. i firmly believe if you offend any other poster you will clearly know.
hello ? GS can i get a witness?
you asked I answered I do not do the quote thing but i thought because your new to reading theses threads it would help you.
do not worry but to keep the topic on topic i think you could use the pm feature if further conversation is neccesary to particular poster about other topics in a thread but it is your thread and they often do off course. naturaly.
I apologize for the drive by type posts but the only way I can participate is during breaks.
dmiller,
The critique or criticize comment was really heads up.
In that vain I would like to bounce this off of y'all.
I been going to this country (Christian denomination) church with some wonderful folks. Most of them live within just a few miles of me so I know them pretty well.
The reason I am there to start with is after all these years avoiding churches I felt compelled to go there. I've been attending for over 2 months now.
The minister is a very humble guy and one of the first times I heard him teach he said that everyone should be held accountable for what they believe. I took that as meaning they should be able to back it up with the scripture.
He also said if anyone felt he was in error to take him aside and bring it to his attention. In a nutshell, they teach that you are saved by Gods grace, but you've also have to be water baptized and live right. After reading scripture where Jesus says "I am the Son of God" he will say "Christ is God". This is also the guy who went to visit my grandson who was in the hospital with double pneumonia. He stood outside the room and cried while his wife was in the other room comforting my daughter who was having a meltdown.
Just to interject.. My sons and I have played music at many different churches over that last several years and this seems to be a consistent pattern where even those who have attended their respective churches for many years do not have a fundamental understanding of the Bible.
I have had a discussion with another good friend of mine who happens to have been a minister for several years and I ask him why he believed Jesus is God. I was shocked when he struggled to explain.
All of these folks are the salt of the earth and I mean no disrespect whatsoever. I would love for any of them to set down with me and help me understand why the believe the way the do.
I know I am heading into doctrinal territory but I am asking where is the line between criticizing or critiquing. Is it motive?
How can we critique in order to better understand if people get offended no matter what our motives. Or are we supposed to (because of where we have been) sit back and deny that we know anything?
These are questions and not meant to be judging anyone.
I want to move on. And I want to know why I believe what I believe and where I am wrong so I can make it right.
I appreciate those of you who are willing to critique and not criticize.
this is a public forum not brain surgery, Im wondering if maybe you could take some time to read some posts and maybe then you wont feel so sensitive. i firmly believe if you offend any other poster you will clearly know.
hello ? GS can i get a witness?
you asked I answered I do not do the quote thing but i thought because your new to reading theses threads it would help you.
do not worry but to keep the topic on topic i think you could use the pm feature if further conversation is neccesary to particular poster about other topics in a thread but it is your thread and they often do off course. naturaly.
Hey there Pond. :)
You don't know jeast (perhaps) --- but I do.
He was there when I got involved with twi back in the 1970's.
He and his wife, and me and my ex, and another couple ---
(Mike and Jane -- both now deceased), spent a LOT of time hashing over verses.
Mike D. and Bill M. were two of the main twi *influences* that impacted us.
For what it is worth --- jeast needs NO defense from me,
as he is competant enough to stand up, and answer for himself.
BUT --- you need to realize he's been around the block a time or two.
Nother words --- he's been on the same path you and I were on.
Meebe you don't think this forum is *brain surgery*.
Cool ---- I agree that it isn't, BUT -----
don't go criticizing another poster (jeast, me, or anyone else)
because they (or me, or anyone else),
says something that you find objectionable.
Personally -- I think we need more *sensitive folks* here. Lots of posts seem to evince the *hard-assed* attitude. Where is the healing in that, eh?? And one last comment -- I thought his posts were TOTALLY in *sync* with the topic I posted here.
(P.S. --- Pond --- learn *how to do the quote thing*.
It will make your posts more credible, and it's easy to do.) :)
He said he didntwant to souund "lame" that is why I said it isnt brain surgery. I never critized his posts. It is a public forum not a fact finding report. My point wa no one can sound lame or the other very negative words he used to describe his own self.
I answer with my opinion which is what this forum is opinions Dmiller.
I could care less who he is friends with etc. Atill not impressed with who is who on the forums or in twi.
and I am not one to take orders either such as "learn to do the quote thing" and it is not "credit Im looking for or false accusations.
I said my opinion if your "friend doesnt agree with mine doesnt mean I am wrong or accused of being overly critical. You and he apparently find my post "objectable" and now are very personal about it. who is being bossy and critical?
I suggested your personal feelings about me be sent in a PM but to let you know I probably wont listen to them if they are about who is who and getting "credit" etc.
could care less.
It is an opinion forum He asked for our thoughts I gave them .
“He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it]unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother’s way.” (Ro 14:6-13 AV)
Judging others was popular sport in the Way Ministry, but the doctrinal matters were different than that ones Paul addresses in Romans 14. In our case, it was whether they believed "the accuracy of the Word," especially in regard to the Trinity, water baptism (big ticket items), and right down to the minutia of our peculiar interpretation of the Word (which is what we meant when we said "the accuracy of the Word.") Nevertheless, the heart of Paul's teaching here applies quite nicely. We ought to "judge this rather": are we walking in love toward those whose knowledge of the Scriptures might be "weak" in some regard? The plain truth is that in significant ways, our "knowledge" was quite bent and faulty. As it is written,
"Knowledge puffs up; love builds up."
As the fog cleared from my head after leaving the Way, I began to realize that I did not know, practically, the FIRST THING about living rightly, (nor the SECOND THING, which is like unto it.!)
Some of these other "less-knowledgeable" people do. Maybe there could be some benefit to us sticking together, and growing in grace together, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
I did NOT mean to distract from dmiller's orginal topic.
Maybe there could be some benefit to us sticking together, and growing in grace together, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Thank you so much for that.
I would like to read more of what you all think about dmiller's post Critique --- or Criticize???
I have been reading through some of the editorials and other posts and as I would like to be able to research all the topics independantly ....I am going to need some help.
Y'all know what we were taught and I have had numerous discussions with ministers, elders etc of different denominations concerning....salvation by grace or works. Jesus the SON of God, Water baptism just to name a few.
For the most part what I believe and understand has only been reinforced. We all have our strengths and areas which we are not so strong.
I would like to be involved in some thoughtful, friendly, CRITIQUING.
Anyone willing to share with me what you have learned not only from your research but how it applies to what you have learned based on your experience with TWI.
and I am not one to take orders either such as "learn to do the quote thing"
It wasn't an order, it was a suggestion. A suggestion that would make your posts more understandable and coherent. The "quote thing" helps to unmistakably separate your words from those of the person that you are quoting. But there's no requirement on this board to be understandable or coherent.
"But there's no requirement on this board to be understandable or coherent."
Good call Oakspear,
If that wasn't the case this old boy would have been gone a long time ago.
I just leave people scratchin their heads.
To steal a line from the Walking Candy Bar Blues....But I'll grow up, I'll learn the way, so in my later days I will be prosperous, chocolate covered, if I don't bite off more than I can hide.
the things is I did use the quote thing for the post it just wasnt in the manner you like I guess.
go back and look at my post what i wanted was to write my response in a different color to his idea's. it didnt work. the color font wouldnt work and well hey i thought it was ok. didnt stay up all night wondering if you liked it or not tho.
you know oakspear, just wondering, was that being critical or the other thing jeast was looking for?
as far as suggestion ok again read as YOU will sounded like a direct order to me .
and i say just because a poster doesnt like what i wrote doesnt mean it is not understandable just more heavly critized .
what is the problem here anything you need to tell me ?
My response was to your characterization of dmiller's suggestion as an order, not whether or not you use quotes or not.
Anything I need to tell you? Not really, I don't stay up all night wondering if you like my posts either
Normally I don't criticize (or critique) another's posting/writing style anymore, because it is rarely, if ever, interpreted as helpful.
and i say just because a poster doesnt like what i wrote doesnt mean it is not understandable just more heavly critized .
No, but as an example I point out Oldiesman, who although he is definitely in a minority here, writes very clearly and presents his ideas coherently. There is never any mistakeing what his point is.
Normally when I find a poster consistantly hard to understand I just stop making the effort and skip their posts.
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jeast
Pond,
I understand that we can't paint everyone with the same brush that is why I said "some" at the beginning of the post.
I am hear as a friend so please understand that I was speaking from my heart as openly and honestly as I know how.
I appreciate any and all feedback and I will do my best not to let my ego get in the way.
If someone is offended I can guarantee that was not my motive.
There are some who say I don't care or you can't hurt me but I do care. I care enough to let my guard down.
knowing that makes me vulnerable, look stupid, weak, lame so be it.
I don't think I can effectively help or be helped if I do otherwise.
Respectfully,
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pond
this is a public forum not brain surgery, Im wondering if maybe you could take some time to read some posts and maybe then you wont feel so sensitive. i firmly believe if you offend any other poster you will clearly know.
hello ? GS can i get a witness?
you asked I answered I do not do the quote thing but i thought because your new to reading theses threads it would help you.
do not worry but to keep the topic on topic i think you could use the pm feature if further conversation is neccesary to particular poster about other topics in a thread but it is your thread and they often do off course. naturaly.
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jeast
I apologize for the drive by type posts but the only way I can participate is during breaks.
dmiller,
The critique or criticize comment was really heads up.
In that vain I would like to bounce this off of y'all.
I been going to this country (Christian denomination) church with some wonderful folks. Most of them live within just a few miles of me so I know them pretty well.
The reason I am there to start with is after all these years avoiding churches I felt compelled to go there. I've been attending for over 2 months now.
The minister is a very humble guy and one of the first times I heard him teach he said that everyone should be held accountable for what they believe. I took that as meaning they should be able to back it up with the scripture.
He also said if anyone felt he was in error to take him aside and bring it to his attention. In a nutshell, they teach that you are saved by Gods grace, but you've also have to be water baptized and live right. After reading scripture where Jesus says "I am the Son of God" he will say "Christ is God". This is also the guy who went to visit my grandson who was in the hospital with double pneumonia. He stood outside the room and cried while his wife was in the other room comforting my daughter who was having a meltdown.
Just to interject.. My sons and I have played music at many different churches over that last several years and this seems to be a consistent pattern where even those who have attended their respective churches for many years do not have a fundamental understanding of the Bible.
I have had a discussion with another good friend of mine who happens to have been a minister for several years and I ask him why he believed Jesus is God. I was shocked when he struggled to explain.
All of these folks are the salt of the earth and I mean no disrespect whatsoever. I would love for any of them to set down with me and help me understand why the believe the way the do.
I know I am heading into doctrinal territory but I am asking where is the line between criticizing or critiquing. Is it motive?
How can we critique in order to better understand if people get offended no matter what our motives. Or are we supposed to (because of where we have been) sit back and deny that we know anything?
These are questions and not meant to be judging anyone.
I want to move on. And I want to know why I believe what I believe and where I am wrong so I can make it right.
I appreciate those of you who are willing to critique and not criticize.
thanks again dmiller,
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dmiller
Hey there Pond. :)
You don't know jeast (perhaps) --- but I do.
He was there when I got involved with twi back in the 1970's.
He and his wife, and me and my ex, and another couple ---
(Mike and Jane -- both now deceased), spent a LOT of time hashing over verses.
Mike D. and Bill M. were two of the main twi *influences* that impacted us.
For what it is worth --- jeast needs NO defense from me,
as he is competant enough to stand up, and answer for himself.
BUT --- you need to realize he's been around the block a time or two.
Nother words --- he's been on the same path you and I were on.
Meebe you don't think this forum is *brain surgery*.
Cool ---- I agree that it isn't, BUT -----
don't go criticizing another poster (jeast, me, or anyone else)
because they (or me, or anyone else),
says something that you find objectionable.
Personally -- I think we need more *sensitive folks* here. Lots of posts seem to evince the *hard-assed* attitude. Where is the healing in that, eh?? And one last comment -- I thought his posts were TOTALLY in *sync* with the topic I posted here.
(P.S. --- Pond --- learn *how to do the quote thing*.
It will make your posts more credible, and it's easy to do.) :)
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pond
His previous post was written to me .
He said he didntwant to souund "lame" that is why I said it isnt brain surgery. I never critized his posts. It is a public forum not a fact finding report. My point wa no one can sound lame or the other very negative words he used to describe his own self.
I answer with my opinion which is what this forum is opinions Dmiller.
I could care less who he is friends with etc. Atill not impressed with who is who on the forums or in twi.
and I am not one to take orders either such as "learn to do the quote thing" and it is not "credit Im looking for or false accusations.
I said my opinion if your "friend doesnt agree with mine doesnt mean I am wrong or accused of being overly critical. You and he apparently find my post "objectable" and now are very personal about it. who is being bossy and critical?
I suggested your personal feelings about me be sent in a PM but to let you know I probably wont listen to them if they are about who is who and getting "credit" etc.
could care less.
It is an opinion forum He asked for our thoughts I gave them .
to let you know my foot is cushy and soft.
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anotherDan
Judging others was popular sport in the Way Ministry, but the doctrinal matters were different than that ones Paul addresses in Romans 14. In our case, it was whether they believed "the accuracy of the Word," especially in regard to the Trinity, water baptism (big ticket items), and right down to the minutia of our peculiar interpretation of the Word (which is what we meant when we said "the accuracy of the Word.") Nevertheless, the heart of Paul's teaching here applies quite nicely. We ought to "judge this rather": are we walking in love toward those whose knowledge of the Scriptures might be "weak" in some regard? The plain truth is that in significant ways, our "knowledge" was quite bent and faulty. As it is written,
"Knowledge puffs up; love builds up."
As the fog cleared from my head after leaving the Way, I began to realize that I did not know, practically, the FIRST THING about living rightly, (nor the SECOND THING, which is like unto it.!)
Some of these other "less-knowledgeable" people do. Maybe there could be some benefit to us sticking together, and growing in grace together, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
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jeast
I did mean to distract from dmiller's orginal topic.
As most of you had already said that it was very good.
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dmiller
Shucks --- Threads get derailed here all the time!!
Wouldn't be GSC if they weren't!
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jeast
Just to clear up my typo.
I did NOT mean to distract from dmiller's orginal topic.
Maybe there could be some benefit to us sticking together, and growing in grace together, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Thank you so much for that.
I would like to read more of what you all think about dmiller's post Critique --- or Criticize???
I have been reading through some of the editorials and other posts and as I would like to be able to research all the topics independantly ....I am going to need some help.
Y'all know what we were taught and I have had numerous discussions with ministers, elders etc of different denominations concerning....salvation by grace or works. Jesus the SON of God, Water baptism just to name a few.
For the most part what I believe and understand has only been reinforced. We all have our strengths and areas which we are not so strong.
I would like to be involved in some thoughtful, friendly, CRITIQUING.
Anyone willing to share with me what you have learned not only from your research but how it applies to what you have learned based on your experience with TWI.
respectfully,
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Oakspear
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jeast
"But there's no requirement on this board to be understandable or coherent."
Good call Oakspear,
If that wasn't the case this old boy would have been gone a long time ago.
I just leave people scratchin their heads.
To steal a line from the Walking Candy Bar Blues....But I'll grow up, I'll learn the way, so in my later days I will be prosperous, chocolate covered, if I don't bite off more than I can hide.
Now there is a song about being too CRITICAL.
all the best
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pond
lol oakspear.
the things is I did use the quote thing for the post it just wasnt in the manner you like I guess.
go back and look at my post what i wanted was to write my response in a different color to his idea's. it didnt work. the color font wouldnt work and well hey i thought it was ok. didnt stay up all night wondering if you liked it or not tho.
you know oakspear, just wondering, was that being critical or the other thing jeast was looking for?
as far as suggestion ok again read as YOU will sounded like a direct order to me .
and i say just because a poster doesnt like what i wrote doesnt mean it is not understandable just more heavly critized .
what is the problem here anything you need to tell me ?
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dmiller
Hey there Pond -- let's (all) take a collective breath of fresh air, eh?? :)
I didn't mean to offend you in any way, shape or form. Sorry if it came across that way.
Like Oak mentioned -- I meant the *quote* thing as a suggestion.
(Nother words --- it was a CRITIQUE, and NOT a criticism!!) :)
This is for your (and anyone else's learning) about quotes, and color usage in the posts here.
See the second *button* from the right at the top of your reply page?
click on that -- it will read
If you decide to quote a part of something someone has said ---- copy what they said,
then click that button in YOUR POST, and BETWEEN the brackets of the two words QUOTE,
paste your copied thing you want to quote.
and when it comes to color ---- type out what you want, then highlight it,
and go to the big A at the upper right of your reply page.
Click on that -- (you'll see this --- or whatever color you choose)
and the text you wrote (that you highlighted) will turn into the color you chose.
There's a forum down in the computer section of this site, that you can test this stuff on,
and try it until you are satisfied with the results. I hope that helps out. Good luck.
I didn't mean to .... you off, or irritate you, or anything like that.
These days I'm into critiquing, and NOT criticizing.
Oh --- by the way --- if you want to quote an entire post someone made --
all you have to do is click the reply button right under their post ---
and it will show up in your reply box for you to add your comments to. :)
I hope this helps, and sorry I didn't say this earlier.
Had I done so -- this misunderstanding wouldn't have happened.
God bless, and take care.
David
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Oakspear
Pond:
My response was to your characterization of dmiller's suggestion as an order, not whether or not you use quotes or not.
Anything I need to tell you? Not really, I don't stay up all night wondering if you like my posts either
Normally I don't criticize (or critique) another's posting/writing style anymore, because it is rarely, if ever, interpreted as helpful.
No, but as an example I point out Oldiesman, who although he is definitely in a minority here, writes very clearly and presents his ideas coherently. There is never any mistakeing what his point is.Normally when I find a poster consistantly hard to understand I just stop making the effort and skip their posts.
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pond
I did the the qoute thing it just didnt show up in color Dmiller.
oakspear
me to thanks for your reply.
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Oakspear
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