Does anyone remember the “unproductive evil” teachings from '93 to'94? I think it looked at the differences of a few Greek words for “evil”. If memory serves me right one word was porneos and the other kakos.
Sincerely,
E. W. Bullinger
Sorry, I was already gone.
I do remember, though, back in the 1970's, quite a big deal was made out of saying that "pharmakia"(sp?) had to have been talking about illicit use of drugs and that use of any kind of drugs could lead to debuhl po-ze-shun.
I don't really see any degrees of corruption in these adjectives, just different words for the same concept. So if LCM applied differing levels to these words,
then it was just another manipulative attempt to show how his followers were sliding down hill. The only thing I would note here, is if he was such a great
teacher, why were his followers sliding down any hill?
I was already gone for 5-6 years apparently before these teachings came out. God be praised!
Unfortunately I did endure this and there was many a Corps night lashing about it. No tthat LCM would want to make anybody suffer under a load of self-condemnation and misery, of course (tongue in cheek).
If you left but hung around you were "harassing."
If you contacted anybody who had left/been flung out, you were "unproductive" and they were "destructive."
I never understood it then and even less now (actually I had almost forgotten about this).
...Isn't it good to know that NOTHING CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, that neither God nor Jesus Christ want divisions in the church, and that we should be very wary of those who cause divisions among us - by introducing, perhaps, false concepts of what kind of evil they were deluded by - especially when it might well have been their sound mind that took them away from TWI!!
Now (perhaps) back to the regularly scheduled topic... (sorry, was I being a bit "unproductive"?)
Besides being what I consider an oxymoron, wouldn't "unproductive evil" be the best kind to have in an organization (I mean, if you're going to have evil)?
Am I remembering wrongly or was this whole "degrees of evil" teaching kind-of an offshoot of Craig's big study of the devil spirit realm? Remember he got so INTO how to define and recognize seed of the serpent people and named a bunch of well-known folks as being thusly influenced. Then he listed all the names for the devil and got real specific about the different aspects of each name... yeah, now THAT's edifying!!!
Actually, I have notes from when Walter Cummins taught the three different types of evil way back in the late 1970s ... it came from a SNS tape called "Your Critical Christian Decision." In it, he outlined the types of evil and concluded the teaching with the statement that our critical Christian decision is to choose to overcome evil with good.
The reason I'm sharing this is that Craig didn't come up with that teaching during his "devil spirits cause everything" reign. It was not original research done by him ... he stole it from Walter Cummins.
Actually, I have notes from when Walter Cummins taught the three different types of evil way back in the late 1970s ... it came from a SNS tape called "Your Critical Christian Decision." In it, he outlined the types of evil and concluded the teaching with the statement that our critical Christian decision is to choose to overcome evil with good.
The reason I'm sharing this is that Craig didn't come up with that teaching during his "devil spirits cause everything" reign. It was not original research done by him ... he stole it from Walter Cummins.
If you want to find a counterfeit.....don't look for it!
Study the TRUE AND PERFECT, namely THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!
DL, so history repeats itself. Craig plagarizes Walter's teaching and claims to be original? :o :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:
I don't know that Craig said it was original research... I don't think I said that... I was just trying to remember the time-frame of it all, and thinking that he was making a big deal about this not long after he did the whole "seed-specific" teachings, but now that I think about it more, it seems like this big push came after the POP fallout, when Craig was dealing with all the different levels of commitment he was getting from people... and trying to justify dropping anyone who didn't whole-heartedly agree with him...
Yeah, but he was pushing those teachings long before that... at least by 1985 because that's when he came to Emporia and taught on the names of Satan and how to recognize seed to the corps (we CPs got to sit in) and that was when he was developing AOS (men in tights) so he was going over all that material "again" making me wonder now when he really got on a roll with that? Clearly, now that I think about it, it was well before the POP popped because ol' Vic died in spring of 1985, and Geer charged in the following year.
And somewhere along the line Craig shifted focus from seed to Acts, and got on a many-year roll with the great statements, culminating in his teaching that subject for corps night in 1989-1990 (his first year ever with that responsibility).
Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm just really curious now about the time frame and how what he was focusing on corresponded with what the rest of the ministry was going through...
Come to think of it, a lot of the classification crap was in AOS.
I just don't remember ever seeing any of that in Scripture. It's been so long, and I am focused on trying to understand God and learn the truth. And I think I missed getting to know Jesus while I was in TWI. It seems to be that in looking to understand all the facets of evil, LCM got to know evil a little too well.
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waysider
Sorry, I was already gone.
I do remember, though, back in the 1970's, quite a big deal was made out of saying that "pharmakia"(sp?) had to have been talking about illicit use of drugs and that use of any kind of drugs could lead to debuhl po-ze-shun.
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excathedra
isn't there a devil spirit for that ?
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Ham
Poneros- active evil, I think..
kakos- destructive evil..
Phalos- dross.. useless crap..
the unholy trinity that defines der vey..
The thing I've been coming to terms with.. the arrogance where one person can define another's dream and life as "useless"..
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frank123lol
Even if you did nothing one way or the other lcm called it unproductive evil.
So literaly you were damed if you do or damed if you dont.
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TheHighWay
Yes, it was a great teaching to keep the masses in line...
If you left twi, you were evil
If you left twi, and you were vocal about it, you were destructive evil
If you stayed in twi but weren't very happy what was happening, you were unproductive evil
Only if you supported them 100%, no questions asked, were you a functioning member of the Household of God (praise be!!)
(baaaaaarf)
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brideofjc
The words in the Greek are:
These are the adjectival forms below;
πονηρός - evil, bad, wicked, afflictive, malignant, malevolent
κακoς - bad, worthless, corrupt, depraved
φαῦλος - evil, vile, refuse, wicked
I don't really see any degrees of corruption in these adjectives, just different words for the same concept. So if LCM applied differing levels to these words,
then it was just another manipulative attempt to show how his followers were sliding down hill. The only thing I would note here, is if he was such a great
teacher, why were his followers sliding down any hill?
I was already gone for 5-6 years apparently before these teachings came out. God be praised!
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MountainTopCO
Unproductive evil – you didn’t do the stubid things they wanted you to do.
Harassing evil – you questioned them about the stubid things they wanted you to do.
Destructive evil – you expressed your uncertainty about the stubid things they wanted you to do to someone else.
The idea was to kick you out before you get to Destructive evil.
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Twinky
Unfortunately I did endure this and there was many a Corps night lashing about it. No tthat LCM would want to make anybody suffer under a load of self-condemnation and misery, of course (tongue in cheek).
If you left but hung around you were "harassing."
If you contacted anybody who had left/been flung out, you were "unproductive" and they were "destructive."
I never understood it then and even less now (actually I had almost forgotten about this).
...Isn't it good to know that NOTHING CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, that neither God nor Jesus Christ want divisions in the church, and that we should be very wary of those who cause divisions among us - by introducing, perhaps, false concepts of what kind of evil they were deluded by - especially when it might well have been their sound mind that took them away from TWI!!
Now (perhaps) back to the regularly scheduled topic... (sorry, was I being a bit "unproductive"?)
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cheranne
! Is that like girlie man,is there a productive evil that would be TWI
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Sushi
Besides being what I consider an oxymoron, wouldn't "unproductive evil" be the best kind to have in an organization (I mean, if you're going to have evil)?
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Watered Garden
Exactly, Sushi! Who wants PRODUCTIVE evil hanging around, anyway?
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TheHighWay
Am I remembering wrongly or was this whole "degrees of evil" teaching kind-of an offshoot of Craig's big study of the devil spirit realm? Remember he got so INTO how to define and recognize seed of the serpent people and named a bunch of well-known folks as being thusly influenced. Then he listed all the names for the devil and got real specific about the different aspects of each name... yeah, now THAT's edifying!!!
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DogLover
Actually, I have notes from when Walter Cummins taught the three different types of evil way back in the late 1970s ... it came from a SNS tape called "Your Critical Christian Decision." In it, he outlined the types of evil and concluded the teaching with the statement that our critical Christian decision is to choose to overcome evil with good.
The reason I'm sharing this is that Craig didn't come up with that teaching during his "devil spirits cause everything" reign. It was not original research done by him ... he stole it from Walter Cummins.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
DL, so history repeats itself. Craig plagarizes Walter's teaching and claims to be original? :o :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:
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brideofjc
If you want to find a counterfeit.....don't look for it!
Study the TRUE AND PERFECT, namely THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!
The counterfeit will be contrasted immediately.
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TheHighWay
I don't know that Craig said it was original research... I don't think I said that... I was just trying to remember the time-frame of it all, and thinking that he was making a big deal about this not long after he did the whole "seed-specific" teachings, but now that I think about it more, it seems like this big push came after the POP fallout, when Craig was dealing with all the different levels of commitment he was getting from people... and trying to justify dropping anyone who didn't whole-heartedly agree with him...
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Watered Garden
The advanced class special on "seed of the serpent" was in 1992.
WG
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TheHighWay
Yeah, but he was pushing those teachings long before that... at least by 1985 because that's when he came to Emporia and taught on the names of Satan and how to recognize seed to the corps (we CPs got to sit in) and that was when he was developing AOS (men in tights) so he was going over all that material "again" making me wonder now when he really got on a roll with that? Clearly, now that I think about it, it was well before the POP popped because ol' Vic died in spring of 1985, and Geer charged in the following year.
And somewhere along the line Craig shifted focus from seed to Acts, and got on a many-year roll with the great statements, culminating in his teaching that subject for corps night in 1989-1990 (his first year ever with that responsibility).
Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm just really curious now about the time frame and how what he was focusing on corresponded with what the rest of the ministry was going through...
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Watered Garden
Come to think of it, a lot of the classification crap was in AOS.
I just don't remember ever seeing any of that in Scripture. It's been so long, and I am focused on trying to understand God and learn the truth. And I think I missed getting to know Jesus while I was in TWI. It seems to be that in looking to understand all the facets of evil, LCM got to know evil a little too well.
WG
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