Just for the record, I remember AFTER I had started the Corps program at HQ (2nd Corps), one day I was in Trailer 6 talking with a fellow bunk mate. We were covertly expressing our surprise - and were a little chagrined - about finding out what we'd really signed up for. We hadn't known we'd be sent wherever Dr. wanted us to go after the program was over. That objective wasn't too clear to us when we applied, for some reason. But we figured it was God's will, so we went with it.
No Corps were on the field yet. The first Corps was in their second year of training. The zero Corps had been kicked out, of course, so there was no precedent set yet for Corps grad tasks, etc. I realize now that I was so caught up in the dream that I did not think very far down the road. But at 19 yrs. old, who does? A few do, I guess...but I was not one of them.
considering they "trimmed" about say, ninety nine percent of these "qualified" "trained" "leaders" from the honor role, wouldn't that suggest it was practically a complete waste of time, an utter abject failure?
"You can go home now. We aren't really interested in running the cult business anymore.."
Any university that produced a 99 percent unemployability rate among graduates wouldn't last very long.
Where do these "unemployed" go?
We have how many "trained" administrators hitting the beat for a job.. some opened their own shop, promising WORSE results than twi.
Some are damaged to the extent they'll never fit in with an organization with different beliefs.
Some people justify all of the experience with "well, they can teach the bible in a home fellowship, or something like that. see, the *word* can live.."
wasn't that where people STARTED, to begin with?
I never said the plan worked only that there was one.
The thing is, training "leaders" can mean a lot of things... it can mean leaders within the structure of twi, or leaders out in the worldly businesses, it can mean leaders of fellowships. I think twi clearly bent the meaning whichever way the wind was blowing for them at the time.
That there would be differences in application from one year to the next, and differences in understanding from one person to the next fits exactly with what I've come to know as twi-doctrine-and-practice.
Really do you expect us to believe that the way would expend time, money, and energy, to train leaders for other groups ? That's the most ridicules thing I have ever heard Again I ask what would be the pay off for them to do this ? And It's pretty clear the expected pay offs for what they did. Any word can mean a lot of things when one wants to argue. So what?....... Context......... What do you think the purpose of quote: They've grown, and they really understand this ministry is for . Why would one need to really understand the ministry if they were being trained to be a leader in the Catholic Church? And how would they train such a leader in the Way? Why would an understanding of the Way be a requirement to the Peace Corps? It's pretty clear that they intended the program to train leaders for their organization. By the way that's pretty typical for most organizations, I don't know of any that train leaders for their competition on purpose.
The pamphlets also said that Corps would be given assignments "should they chose to accept them." (Or something like that.)
THAT implies that a person would go through training, graduate, and decide what assignments he or she would or could accept. THAT is not at all how it happened. A corps grad had to accept an assignment as having been handed to them by divine revelation. Some arguing would be acceptable - but resistance was futile, for the most part.
How you were treated after you declined an assignment depended on many things - but not one of them had to do with what was best for you or your family.
As I recall, for most folks, if you declined an assignment, you were considered non-corps. That of course brought you the divine calling of "Copped Out Corps."
Can't you just feel the love?
I don't disagree with what you said at all. In fact the very fact that they said they were giving assignments tells us from common sense that they intended the program to train leaders for their use. Really how could they give an assignment to the Peace corps? or to serve in a church? not within their power to do such a thing....... It's pretty clear the intent except for those who want to find a point of argument......
I never said the plan worked only that there was one.
Ya, there was a "plan" alright. I call it "trolling for wolves".
with few exceptions, by the time I left, they managed to retain the top one percent consisting of the most arrogant, blindly following orders, mean, nasty, ultra-competitive I'd run over my grandma if she got in my way going to "twig" people you'd ever seen..
whether they MADE them, or if that was their character to begin with.
Take this as a compliment- I think you guys who left or were booted likely just weren't quite the right material.
Just for the record, I remember AFTER I had started the Corps program at HQ (2nd Corps), one day I was in Trailer 6 talking with a fellow bunk mate. We were covertly expressing our surprise - and were a little chagrined - about finding out what we'd really signed up for. We hadn't known we'd be sent wherever Dr. wanted us to go after the program was over. That objective wasn't too clear to us when we applied, for some reason. But we figured it was God's will, so we went with it.
No Corps were on the field yet. The first Corps was in their second year of training. The zero Corps had been kicked out, of course, so there was no precedent set yet for Corps grad tasks, etc. I realize now that I was so caught up in the dream that I did not think very far down the road. But at 19 yrs. old, who does? A few do, I guess...but I was not one of them.
I think that if anyone had a argument for not knowing it would have been the first few Corps. I think it was very plausible that you had no idea what the program was. As you mentioned there was no referance points, and No apprentice year, nor literature to reference. But latter there was. It was pretty obvious where the leaders at the way tree level came from. I dare say not picked from Twigs... It was a rare exception that a leader was not a Corps Grad. .And the work load started in the apprentice year how one could get through that and not understand they would be trained to work for the ministry is beyond me. I don't kow of anyone I sponsored that thought they were being trained to join the Peace Corps or to serve in a church.
Ya, there was a "plan" alright. I call it "trolling for wolves".
with few exceptions, by the time I left, they managed to retain the top one percent consisting of the most arrogant, blindly following orders, mean, nasty, ultra-competitive I'd run over my grandma if she got in my way going to "twig" people you'd ever seen..
whether they MADE them, or if that was their character to begin with.
Take this as a compliment- I think you guys who left or were booted likely just weren't quite the right material.
The quality of the leaders is a different subject for another discussion/ or were you trying to sidetrack that fact that it is pretty obvious that the plan was to train people for service in the Way? I mean cause it makes pretty common sense tome from the literature alone.......
Just for the record, I remember AFTER I had started the Corps program at HQ (2nd Corps), one day I was in Trailer 6 talking with a fellow bunk mate. We were covertly expressing our surprise - and were a little chagrined - about finding out what we'd really signed up for. We hadn't known we'd be sent wherever Dr. wanted us to go after the program was over. That objective wasn't too clear to us when we applied, for some reason. But we figured it was God's will, so we went with it.
No Corps were on the field yet. The first Corps was in their second year of training. The zero Corps had been kicked out, of course, so there was no precedent set yet for Corps grad tasks, etc. I realize now that I was so caught up in the dream that I did not think very far down the road. But at 19 yrs. old, who does? A few do, I guess...but I was not one of them.
penworks.......thanks.
Clearly, what a corp person signed up for....and what wierwille EXPECTED and DEMANDED.....were lightyears apart. Your experience, again, confirms what so many corps have expressed.
IMO......wierwille was narcisstic and obsessed with himself as some "great one." Obviously, he had drank his own kool-aide for decades........believing and mesmerized by unverifiable "phenomenon".......signed his name to plagiarized works of others.......wore "The Man of God" silver bracelot.......and sipped his drambuie and smoked his shorties in front of thousands "at his feet."
It seems apparent that wierwille's standard mode of operation was to "sweet-talk the corps program".......get those teenagers and early 20 year-olds to sign up........then delve into the foundational aspects again for about six weeks or so......THEN pull off the kid-gloves and shout his bravado on commitment from center ring. The Result??........new-corps-bies would be intimidated and silenced into submission. This verbal abuse is very little different that what happens on the domestic scene behind closed doors. And, ya know.....it worked year after year.
But.......there was a period (1977-1982).....when twi needed more WORKERS (and business leaders and $$$) to help sustain the growth in twi. They wanted corps committed to THEIR WORK....of course.....but they also wanted corps to go out into the work force and businesses and FAITHFULLY TITHE. Heck, the campses were bulging with wide-eyed "leaders" everywhere........but, at THAT time, that's not what they needed.
And, one more thing........the corps program was static, not dynamic. In other words.......they never wanted to take into account that people GREW UP, and married, and had families, and careers, and extended family responsibilities, and homeownership duties, and A LIFE OUTSIDE TWI'S 'boot camp training.'
No wonder......some 3,000 corps have MOVED ON WITH THEIR LIVES.
Oldies........seeing how you jumped on my last sentence, I thought it better to show you the CONTEXT of several things in my post.
And, Oldies.......you say that you don't like to talk doctrine......but the corps program was taught a plethora of other toxic doctrines. Heck, even wierwille's teaching that "cancer is a devil spirit" SHOULD open a few eyes, right?......since wierwille died of cancer.
Add the conspiracy theories, add the holocaust "hoax" teachings, add the Jonestown stuff, add the documented plagiarism, add the "all nine all the time" jibberish, add the paranoia of geer and others whom wierwille allowed close to him, etc. etc...................all these dots CONNECT TO ONE BIZARRE, NARCISSTIC MAN.
When some keep bringing up pfal jargon............lots of us corps were introduced to wierwille's world as he saw it.
:blink: :blink:
Skyrider, I never suggested that everything Dr. Wierwille taught was correct and God breathed. All I'm continuing to say is that his sins don't make the teachings wrong. His good works don't make the teachings right. The teachings stand or fall on their own, irrespective of the actions of the teacher. We all should rightly divide the word of truth for ourselves to get the true word.
Ya, there was a "plan" alright. I call it "trolling for wolves".
with few exceptions, by the time I left, they managed to retain the top one percent consisting of the most arrogant, blindly following orders, mean, nasty, ultra-competitive I'd run over my grandma if she got in my way going to "twig" people you'd ever seen..
whether they MADE them, or if that was their character to begin with.
Take this as a compliment- I think you guys who left or were booted likely just weren't quite the right material.
didn't want that to get lost in the shuffle..
:)
I view the new "corpsie" adventure in the same light.
I think they are trolling for whoever they can find that will blindly follow orders, do *whatever* it takes to "move da ministry".. can learn how to properly smooze der manogawd, and look good in a suit and tie besides..
after they turn them on each other a dozen times or so, they'll find out who's who..
the number three comes to mind. That's probably about all they'll have left by the end of the year.
It should not matter what you are involved in after the training.
How exactly could they train people for these varying programs especially not knowing even what the programs were going to be? It's pretty ridicules to think they could train these people for other groups programs. Where do you see that ever happening?
Skyrider, I never suggested that everything Dr. Wierwille taught was correct and God breathed. All I'm continuing to say is that his sins don't make the teachings wrong. His good works don't make the teachings right. The teachings stand or fall on their own, irrespective of the actions of the teacher. We all should rightly divide the word of truth for ourselves to get the true word.
Fair enough.
And.....I would like to add, the 1953 "pfal" class....had aspects of truth that could and should be attributed to Rev. B.G. Leonard. Enough said.
Looks like he was right, maybe you did not get it yet,maybe you still don't. It appears that from the start they were interested in training leaders who would work for the ministry ,to lead in the field, to know the ministry . I suppose they wanted them to learn all that so that they could just go do their own thing. Yeah thats the ticket learn all about something so you can be useless upon graduation to the organization, Not likely what exactly would be the point ? the pay off for The Way in training people to be productive for someone else? It appears to me that they had a different view all along, and it was pretty clear. Well to most.......
I agree with you WhiteDove. Additionally from the spiritual partner perspective, I always assumed that the sponsoring was for the volunteer to receive training to later work for the ministry in some advanced capacity, not go through the entire training and then simply do your own thing and head off on your own orbit.
Perhaps you would like to address some of the questions I posed to explain how that happens? Perhaps some evidence to back up your claim. I offered several why it makes no logical sense even from a secular organization standpoint. The fact that they gave assignments and people accepted them pretty much tells a normal person that they must be associated to them in some form of leader capacity, people don't normally take orders from someone if they don't work for them
The answers are obvious to any clear thinking person.
Goodbye wd and twi.
cman & others.....who have joined in this discussion of late.
A little over 2 years ago, this corps topic namely A lifetime of Christian service was a hot-topic of discussion........as many who frequent GS probably remember. WhiteDove took the posture of "corps brochures and fulfilling what one signed up to do"......Click Here
My post (#54).....was in response to WD's staunch approach to the stated corps brochure.
(WhiteDove @ Mar 11 2006, 11:12 PM)
Actually you are incorrect the brochure said what I printed only which is.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest, and need. Where they serve depends upon their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry.
THEN.....I responded to this corps brochure that WD presented:
Okay......let's just look at this.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve.......serve where??....in areas of concern, interest and need. Succinct. Simple. Vague.
Where they serve depends upon their desire.........THEIR desire.....(their) ability, and the needs of the ministry. First mentioned is THEIR DESIRE. Is it mentioned first, because THAT is the most important priority? Their ability is also an important quality. And, the needs of the ministry are included in the mix. Two of the three points make note of the INDIVIDUAL.
Thanks whitedove.................I can agree with twi's logic of the INDIVIDUAL'S DESIRE listed first.
That's the way I understood it when I signed on the line.
:) ......For some reason....this topic is of much interest to WhiteDove -- who never went corps.
I think the "payoff" for the training received to go work somewhere else was nil. Intentionally, or unintentially, they made it so.
Where is one to go outside of der vey?
It's not like you graduated with a real, verfiable degree.. but you've more than paid for one. Some people paid twice over or more.
The only place the paper meant anything, was in the organization. And the paper could be stamped "void" at any given time. Nobody had any real ownership in the organization.
So on a person works.. striving, lest their little piece of paper be set at nought.
The conditions keep getting piled up.. and someone with a few brains who could be doing something FAR more useful finds themself cleaning the parking lot on the way in to the office.. and you'd BETTER get all the oil spots.
what's really pathetic.. some of those guys who left or were booted are still at the same game.. they're like the levite in judges, going on the road, trying to shake some sustenance out of the bushes..
I know some who would go from $58,000 a year and a cushy job in hq to not being able to hold down a job at McDonald's.
The plan? Pretty obvious- a lifetime of christian servitude.
The plan? Pretty obvious- a lifetime of christian servitude.
Generally, people treat their mule better..
Ham......yeah, the plan is to BLEND the program/organization and "serving God" as ONE.
If one believes that all his actions within the group "serve God"......THEN cleaning toilets, cleaning parking lots, ushering at the meetings, babysitting, servicing the mog.......ALL ACTIONS WILL BE REWARDED AT THE BEMA.
That's why......there's ALWAYS a fusion of the two..... "serving God and serving twi" are machined and marketed as ONE AND THE SAME. Churches do it.....denominations do it........but add the isolation/full-scale manipulation and mog status wherein hasn't been seen since the first century as in twi......and the result is a cult environment.
That's why.......even 40 years later.....the best that wierwille-defenders can summon as reference is plaf. They can't go near the corps experience BECAUSE ITS WROUGHT WITH MALICIOUSNESS, DECEITFULLNESS AND HYPOCRISY
Really do you expect us to believe that the way would expend time, money, and energy, to train leaders for other groups ? That's the most ridicules thing I have ever heard Again I ask what would be the pay off for them to do this ?
and
How exactly could they train people for these varying programs especially not knowing even what the programs were going to be? It's pretty ridicules to think they could train these people for other groups programs. Where do you see that ever happening?
WhiteDove,
I don't think anyone here is saying they would want to train folks to participate in other people's groups... the concept was WORD IN CULTURE... so the corps training WAS indeed promoted for a time as being leadership training in the Bible that you could then take into AREAS OF CONCERN, INTEREST, and NEED where you worked, lived, and played so you could show other people how to be a successful christian. (and give due credit to your theology and practices, aka to twi)
Not to mention, twi was supposed to be based on Biblical PRINCIPLES... so it wouldn't matter what field you wanted to go into, the principles should work across the board. Look at who they were promoting all through the early 80s... football players, rodeo cowboys, a judge, a wrestling coach, business men and women... people who had excelled at their professions and who had promoted twi at the same time.
Ham......yeah, the plan is to BLEND the program/organization and "serving God" as ONE.
If one believes that all his actions within the group "serve God"......THEN cleaning toilets, cleaning parking lots, ushering at the meetings, babysitting, servicing the mog.......ALL ACTIONS WILL BE REWARDED AT THE BEMA.
That's why......there's ALWAYS a fusion of the two..... "serving God and serving twi" are machined and marketed as ONE AND THE SAME. Churches do it.....denominations do it........but add the isolation/full-scale manipulation and mog status wherein hasn't been seen since the first century as in twi......and the result is a cult environment.
That's why.......even 40 years later.....the best that wierwille-defenders can summon as reference is plaf. They can't go near the corps experience BECAUSE ITS WROUGHT WITH MALICIOUSNESS, DECEITFULLNESS AND HYPOCRISY
BY WIERWILLE & CO.
The word is true even in your churches, denominations or so-called "cult environment". Just because we were with twi or in the corps doesn't negate the truth of the word or make our experience a hoax or a con. I'd say the same for folks in or out of church. All depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the commitment or performing the action.
It's pretty simple. Consider these:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
The word is true even in your churches, denominations or so-called "cult environment". Just because we were with twi or in the corps doesn't negate the truth of the word or make our experience a hoax or a con. I'd say the same for folks in or out of church. All depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the commitment or performing the action.
It's pretty simple. Consider these:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Oldies......yes it is simple......and most scripture is pretty straight-forward...... as long as one's actions are to the Lord......and align with scripture.
But in the bizarre world of isolation and cult double-speak........some corps girls were persuaded and seduced with "a whatsoever".......to meet the mog in his motorcoach for some "whatsoever" whoopee.
It is disgusting behavior from anyone in authority....besides "a minister for God."
Oldies......yes it is simple......and most scripture is pretty straight-forward...... as long as one's actions are to the Lord......and align with scripture.
But in the bizarre world of isolation and cult double-speak........some corps girls were persuaded and seduced with "a whatsoever".......to meet the mog in his motorcoach for some "whatsoever" whoopee.
It is disgusting behavior from anyone in authority....besides "a minister for God."
:(
One more thing, oldies..................Happy Resurrection Sunday!
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
46
28
47
24
Popular Days
Mar 21
55
Mar 19
50
Mar 25
39
Mar 27
31
Top Posters In This Topic
skyrider 46 posts
oldiesman 28 posts
WhiteDove 47 posts
waysider 24 posts
Popular Days
Mar 21 2008
55 posts
Mar 19 2008
50 posts
Mar 25 2008
39 posts
Mar 27 2008
31 posts
Posted Images
penworks
Just for the record, I remember AFTER I had started the Corps program at HQ (2nd Corps), one day I was in Trailer 6 talking with a fellow bunk mate. We were covertly expressing our surprise - and were a little chagrined - about finding out what we'd really signed up for. We hadn't known we'd be sent wherever Dr. wanted us to go after the program was over. That objective wasn't too clear to us when we applied, for some reason. But we figured it was God's will, so we went with it.
No Corps were on the field yet. The first Corps was in their second year of training. The zero Corps had been kicked out, of course, so there was no precedent set yet for Corps grad tasks, etc. I realize now that I was so caught up in the dream that I did not think very far down the road. But at 19 yrs. old, who does? A few do, I guess...but I was not one of them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
I never said the plan worked only that there was one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Really do you expect us to believe that the way would expend time, money, and energy, to train leaders for other groups ? That's the most ridicules thing I have ever heard Again I ask what would be the pay off for them to do this ? And It's pretty clear the expected pay offs for what they did. Any word can mean a lot of things when one wants to argue. So what?....... Context......... What do you think the purpose of quote: They've grown, and they really understand this ministry is for . Why would one need to really understand the ministry if they were being trained to be a leader in the Catholic Church? And how would they train such a leader in the Way? Why would an understanding of the Way be a requirement to the Peace Corps? It's pretty clear that they intended the program to train leaders for their organization. By the way that's pretty typical for most organizations, I don't know of any that train leaders for their competition on purpose.
I don't disagree with what you said at all. In fact the very fact that they said they were giving assignments tells us from common sense that they intended the program to train leaders for their use. Really how could they give an assignment to the Peace corps? or to serve in a church? not within their power to do such a thing....... It's pretty clear the intent except for those who want to find a point of argument......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Ya, there was a "plan" alright. I call it "trolling for wolves".
with few exceptions, by the time I left, they managed to retain the top one percent consisting of the most arrogant, blindly following orders, mean, nasty, ultra-competitive I'd run over my grandma if she got in my way going to "twig" people you'd ever seen..
whether they MADE them, or if that was their character to begin with.
Take this as a compliment- I think you guys who left or were booted likely just weren't quite the right material.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
I think that if anyone had a argument for not knowing it would have been the first few Corps. I think it was very plausible that you had no idea what the program was. As you mentioned there was no referance points, and No apprentice year, nor literature to reference. But latter there was. It was pretty obvious where the leaders at the way tree level came from. I dare say not picked from Twigs... It was a rare exception that a leader was not a Corps Grad. .And the work load started in the apprentice year how one could get through that and not understand they would be trained to work for the ministry is beyond me. I don't kow of anyone I sponsored that thought they were being trained to join the Peace Corps or to serve in a church.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
It was supposed to be a lifetime of Christian service.
That doesn't say serving and servicing the way intl.
It should not matter what you are involved in after the training.
In fact it's none of their friggin business.
But they didn't care, it was all to build a corporation.
Corp paid their way through the training and were required to continue to pay twi.
For the rest of their lives.
That is NOT godly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
The quality of the leaders is a different subject for another discussion/ or were you trying to sidetrack that fact that it is pretty obvious that the plan was to train people for service in the Way? I mean cause it makes pretty common sense tome from the literature alone.......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
penworks.......thanks.
Clearly, what a corp person signed up for....and what wierwille EXPECTED and DEMANDED.....were lightyears apart. Your experience, again, confirms what so many corps have expressed.
IMO......wierwille was narcisstic and obsessed with himself as some "great one." Obviously, he had drank his own kool-aide for decades........believing and mesmerized by unverifiable "phenomenon".......signed his name to plagiarized works of others.......wore "The Man of God" silver bracelot.......and sipped his drambuie and smoked his shorties in front of thousands "at his feet."
It seems apparent that wierwille's standard mode of operation was to "sweet-talk the corps program".......get those teenagers and early 20 year-olds to sign up........then delve into the foundational aspects again for about six weeks or so......THEN pull off the kid-gloves and shout his bravado on commitment from center ring. The Result??........new-corps-bies would be intimidated and silenced into submission. This verbal abuse is very little different that what happens on the domestic scene behind closed doors. And, ya know.....it worked year after year.
But.......there was a period (1977-1982).....when twi needed more WORKERS (and business leaders and $$$) to help sustain the growth in twi. They wanted corps committed to THEIR WORK....of course.....but they also wanted corps to go out into the work force and businesses and FAITHFULLY TITHE. Heck, the campses were bulging with wide-eyed "leaders" everywhere........but, at THAT time, that's not what they needed.
And, one more thing........the corps program was static, not dynamic. In other words.......they never wanted to take into account that people GREW UP, and married, and had families, and careers, and extended family responsibilities, and homeownership duties, and A LIFE OUTSIDE TWI'S 'boot camp training.'
No wonder......some 3,000 corps have MOVED ON WITH THEIR LIVES.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Skyrider, I never suggested that everything Dr. Wierwille taught was correct and God breathed. All I'm continuing to say is that his sins don't make the teachings wrong. His good works don't make the teachings right. The teachings stand or fall on their own, irrespective of the actions of the teacher. We all should rightly divide the word of truth for ourselves to get the true word.
Edited by oldiesmanLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
didn't want that to get lost in the shuffle..
:)
I view the new "corpsie" adventure in the same light.
I think they are trolling for whoever they can find that will blindly follow orders, do *whatever* it takes to "move da ministry".. can learn how to properly smooze der manogawd, and look good in a suit and tie besides..
after they turn them on each other a dozen times or so, they'll find out who's who..
the number three comes to mind. That's probably about all they'll have left by the end of the year.
If even that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
How exactly could they train people for these varying programs especially not knowing even what the programs were going to be? It's pretty ridicules to think they could train these people for other groups programs. Where do you see that ever happening?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Fair enough.
And.....I would like to add, the 1953 "pfal" class....had aspects of truth that could and should be attributed to Rev. B.G. Leonard. Enough said.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I agree with you WhiteDove. Additionally from the spiritual partner perspective, I always assumed that the sponsoring was for the volunteer to receive training to later work for the ministry in some advanced capacity, not go through the entire training and then simply do your own thing and head off on your own orbit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
whitedove, you can't see that happening?
You just are not looking.
Just an argument is all you want.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
The Way was a communist setup.
You are to serve the state, the way, their way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Perhaps you would like to address some of the questions I posed to explain how that happens? Perhaps some evidence to back up your claim. I offered several why it makes no logical sense even from a secular organization standpoint. The fact that they gave assignments and people accepted them pretty much tells a normal person that they must be associated to them in some form of leader capacity, people don't normally take orders from someone if they don't work for them
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
Perhaps not....lol...
I don't have to, so I will not.
The answers are obvious to any clear thinking person.
Goodbye wd and twi.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
cman & others.....who have joined in this discussion of late.
A little over 2 years ago, this corps topic namely A lifetime of Christian service was a hot-topic of discussion........as many who frequent GS probably remember. WhiteDove took the posture of "corps brochures and fulfilling what one signed up to do"......Click Here
My post (#54).....was in response to WD's staunch approach to the stated corps brochure.
THEN.....I responded to this corps brochure that WD presented:
Okay......let's just look at this.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve.......serve where??....in areas of concern, interest and need. Succinct. Simple. Vague.
Where they serve depends upon their desire.........THEIR desire.....(their) ability, and the needs of the ministry. First mentioned is THEIR DESIRE. Is it mentioned first, because THAT is the most important priority? Their ability is also an important quality. And, the needs of the ministry are included in the mix. Two of the three points make note of the INDIVIDUAL.
Thanks whitedove.................I can agree with twi's logic of the INDIVIDUAL'S DESIRE listed first.
That's the way I understood it when I signed on the line.
:) ......For some reason....this topic is of much interest to WhiteDove -- who never went corps.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I think the "payoff" for the training received to go work somewhere else was nil. Intentionally, or unintentially, they made it so.
Where is one to go outside of der vey?
It's not like you graduated with a real, verfiable degree.. but you've more than paid for one. Some people paid twice over or more.
The only place the paper meant anything, was in the organization. And the paper could be stamped "void" at any given time. Nobody had any real ownership in the organization.
So on a person works.. striving, lest their little piece of paper be set at nought.
The conditions keep getting piled up.. and someone with a few brains who could be doing something FAR more useful finds themself cleaning the parking lot on the way in to the office.. and you'd BETTER get all the oil spots.
what's really pathetic.. some of those guys who left or were booted are still at the same game.. they're like the levite in judges, going on the road, trying to shake some sustenance out of the bushes..
I know some who would go from $58,000 a year and a cushy job in hq to not being able to hold down a job at McDonald's.
The plan? Pretty obvious- a lifetime of christian servitude.
Generally, people treat their mule better..
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Ham......yeah, the plan is to BLEND the program/organization and "serving God" as ONE.
If one believes that all his actions within the group "serve God"......THEN cleaning toilets, cleaning parking lots, ushering at the meetings, babysitting, servicing the mog.......ALL ACTIONS WILL BE REWARDED AT THE BEMA.
That's why......there's ALWAYS a fusion of the two..... "serving God and serving twi" are machined and marketed as ONE AND THE SAME. Churches do it.....denominations do it........but add the isolation/full-scale manipulation and mog status wherein hasn't been seen since the first century as in twi......and the result is a cult environment.
That's why.......even 40 years later.....the best that wierwille-defenders can summon as reference is plaf. They can't go near the corps experience BECAUSE ITS WROUGHT WITH MALICIOUSNESS, DECEITFULLNESS AND HYPOCRISY
BY WIERWILLE & CO.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
WhiteDove,
I don't think anyone here is saying they would want to train folks to participate in other people's groups... the concept was WORD IN CULTURE... so the corps training WAS indeed promoted for a time as being leadership training in the Bible that you could then take into AREAS OF CONCERN, INTEREST, and NEED where you worked, lived, and played so you could show other people how to be a successful christian. (and give due credit to your theology and practices, aka to twi)
Not to mention, twi was supposed to be based on Biblical PRINCIPLES... so it wouldn't matter what field you wanted to go into, the principles should work across the board. Look at who they were promoting all through the early 80s... football players, rodeo cowboys, a judge, a wrestling coach, business men and women... people who had excelled at their professions and who had promoted twi at the same time.
These are not ridiculous statements at all...
Edited by TheHighWayLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
The word is true even in your churches, denominations or so-called "cult environment". Just because we were with twi or in the corps doesn't negate the truth of the word or make our experience a hoax or a con. I'd say the same for folks in or out of church. All depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the commitment or performing the action.
It's pretty simple. Consider these:
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Edited by oldiesmanLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Oldies......yes it is simple......and most scripture is pretty straight-forward...... as long as one's actions are to the Lord......and align with scripture.
But in the bizarre world of isolation and cult double-speak........some corps girls were persuaded and seduced with "a whatsoever".......to meet the mog in his motorcoach for some "whatsoever" whoopee.
It is disgusting behavior from anyone in authority....besides "a minister for God."
:(
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
One more thing, oldies..................Happy Resurrection Sunday!
HE IS RISEN.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.