A lot of thoughtful insight from a lot of good folks who went through this crap...
Of COURSE there was an expectation to take assignments after the fours years of training was complete...The majority of corps grads were taking yearly assignments and the few who were not, were not spoken highly of.
BUT...BUT...BUT... twi presented the taking of assignments as OPTIONAL in writing!...It was on the form that I signed, when I signed up for the corps...say what you will about what twi "expected", I held them accountable for what they had put in writing...and I made a lot of enemies by doing so...I refused to give in to the peer pressure...perhaps it was my own way of maintaining my own individuality...I'm not sure but I do know that they put it in writing and I didn't care what anybody thought. To me, it was a matter of integrity...THEY put the option in writing...otherwise, I never would have signed up.
I realize that what I am saying is the exception as to how people thought and acted at the time...like I said, when Martindale announced that our committment was for a lifetime and not for 4 years...NOBODY complained about it (that I know of)...except me.
I was fully aware of the "corps culture" that existed...They had turned the reading of the corps assignments into a yearly twi cultural event...
I knew what they expected from me...but I also knew what they had put in writing...I suppose I was a maverick that didn't quite fit in...but then again, I never was a very good arse kisser.
I think that the fact that there were at one time Corps grads around who weren't on the hamster wheel of Corps assignments, who were working a "secular" job or running their own business (like the Colonel who worked at the Pentagon, the medical doctor, and others), who were not reassigned every three years coexisting with Corps grads who were accepting assignments and being uprooted on a regular basis caused some confusion on the part of some people who applied for the program.
Oakspear......yeah, a few military guys got "special clearence to do their thing."
And, medical people were given the nod to "keep on a-doing their medical service."
And, artists spent time away from classes to paint murals on the dining room walls at emporia.
And, Dxxg Cxxk.....a blind man went into the 7th corps.
And, a few corps builders went to work at that Colorado Log Homes company.
And, "recognized corps" were accepted with a ONE-YEAR and "done" deal.
And, spouse corps were "to be raised up" by their corps grad spouse.
And, "dancing to the beat of all this activity" made for lots of action.
right before I left- I saw a guy who had a damn good job at a mattress company in Indiana, and a really nice home.. abandon his life and livelihood because der vey told him so..
they were "corps".. supposed to be at der masta's beck and call..
they came to "podunk" Michigan.
the couple took it out on the area here.. like you wouldn't believe.
Who in their RIGHT mind would abandon a 50K a year job, with retirement, benefits..
while having six kids to feed and provide for..
in their right mind..
finally went on staff at the Indiana campus. but how long did that last.. it's no longer there.
Before they left.. they squeezed the area for every last dime they could get..
A lot of thoughtful insight from a lot of good folks who went through this crap...
Of COURSE there was an expectation to take assignments after the fours years of training was complete...The majority of corps grads were taking yearly assignments and the few who were not, were not spoken highly of.
BUT...BUT...BUT... twi presented the taking of assignments as OPTIONAL in writing!...It was on the form that I signed, when I signed up for the corps...say what you will about what twi "expected", I held them accountable for what they had put in writing...and I made a lot of enemies by doing so...I refused to give in to the peer pressure...perhaps it was my own way of maintaining my own individuality...I'm not sure but I do know that they put it in writing and I didn't care what anybody thought. To me, it was a matter of integrity...THEY put the option in writing...otherwise, I never would have signed up.
I realize that what I am saying is the exception as to how people thought and acted at the time...like I said, when Martindale announced that our committment was for a lifetime and not for 4 years...NOBODY complained about it (that I know of)...except me.
I was fully aware of the "corps culture" that existed...They had turned the reading of the corps assignments into a yearly twi cultural event...
I knew what they expected from me...but I also knew what they had put in writing...I suppose I was a maverick that didn't quite fit in...but then again, I never was a very good arse kisser.
For what its worth Groucho I think you are correct, depending on the year you could request assignments as well. Although if your plan and their plan were not one in the same one could expect "some resistance". In any case some level of service to the organization was expected, more or less demanded, even if it was simply running a Twig. Although I remember a few exceptions to that as well.
I was fully aware of the "corps culture" that existed...They had turned the reading of the corps assignments into a yearly twi cultural event...
I knew what they expected from me...but I also knew what they had put in writing...I suppose I was a maverick that didn't quite fit in...
Groucho......you bring up a good point about "corps culture."
Reaching it's zenith years from 1981-1985, the corps household had its own culture of buzzwords, corps-speak, pecking order, favortisms, and whatnot. And, the Corps Household Newsletter was like in-sider information that would sometimes include wierwille addressing some "corps-commitment issue" that he felt needed immediate attention. Of course, martindale took over these responsibilities in 1982.
IMO........this *corps household* stuff was running at cross-purposes with "the household of the way." Then, when geer was sent to europe and began building *his* work there..............soon, on the horizon we started hearing about the *European Corps Household* and gartmore training. In fact, as I remember it.......Cgeer told F!nn3gan (the world-wide outreach coordinator) that geer's european corps would NOT be participating in corps weeks every year, but that the new-geer policy would be every third year they'd come to the USA.
In rough estimates (1982).....each year, regular corps enrollments were around 325.
The Family Corps numbers, each year............around 175-200 (minus children).
Then, by 1983.......European corps enrollment probably 30-40.
IMO.........that's why the "Word in Culture" concept was (and would have been) THE RIGHT PATH TO PURSUE for the longevity of "christian and community involvement." I know, I know.......it didn't happen and twi digressed back into its isolation, and defensive posture, and vpw died, etc. etc........but what if????
Besides.......many of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th corps had given and served in areas of their interest and abilities ..... and some, rightfully so.....were ready to further their educational goals, career goals, raising families, etc and would still support twi with tithes, counsel, etc. To be more specific, I was working alongside a first corps grad in 1981 who had served as a limb coordinator for many years and then, came to hq to work as a department coordinator. He and I spent lots of time together.....and after some ten years of this, he was submitting his resignation as a staffer and moving away at the end of the ministry year. This example I cited was just one of many.
Look at how the corps numbers swelled..........training some 500 corps/family corps each year. Did twi really have a need for THAT many "leaders"..........or did they need the MONEY, AND FREE-LABOR that was pouring in???
IMO........many of "the old guard of early corps grads" were moving on.....lots of examples come to mind, but I don't want to start naming names........except, there are the "jox coultxr types" who firmly planted his SECULAR goals in twi's a/v department.......and is still there!! Others too. Of course, if you believe that twi is "the spiritual epicenter of the universe" then it all makes sense......hahahahahaha
So yeah, groucho.......the reading of the corps assignment stuff was "THE STAGE PERSONA" of twi's hype and hoopla whereas us *BOOTS ON THE GROUND-TYPES* knew why they flaunted this stuff.
Ok, it seems obvious to me, from reading this thread anyway, that the way corps program "evolved" over time. The problem was, the rules were changed as things rolled along, without consulting the "volunteers."
Typical "bait and switch," that the cult was so skilled at.
Even the concept of the corps was not original with Wierwille...E. Stanley Jones (a Wierwille favorite) wrote a book about spending time in an Ashram program entitled "Abundant Living" written, I believe in 1922.
In the book, Jones explains the concept of teachers and students living together...working, eating, studying together...all of it is there. The first few corps were small in number and it was a more personal experience...by the time the 6th corps came around, it was nothing more than herding cattle through hallways and playing tapes...
By the time the 10th corps came around, it was difficult to find things to do at Emporia...there were more workers than there was work to do...I was assigned to walk around campus all day with a screwdriver in my hand looking for loose screws on chairs...and I paid good money for this training!
...As far as I can see, the greatest benefit of the waycorps training was that you got to walk around with a corps nametag on...and THAT demonstrated to everyone how spiritual you were...amen and amen.
:) -- A Lifetime of Christian Service .............. "We ought to OBEY GOD rather than men."
-- A Lifetime of TWI Service .......the doctrines of men.
Absurd isn't it..?? To even consider that one would/should obey and submit to an organization that CONTINUES TO STRAY further and further from scripture.
Absurd isn't it..?? To think in any stretch of the imagination that "Christian" and "the twi organization" have any sense of sunesis (two rivers converging and flowing together) as twi hordes the abs and exploits followers.
Absurd isn't it..?? To bring up vague wording in some corps brochure that gave OPTIONS TO TAKE ASSIGNMENTS or NOT......and to try and hold it with a "strict, beady-eyed, pharisee club" to try and infer lack of commitment.
Absurd isn't it..?? To now see the wierwille plagiarism, the wierwille adulation, the wierwille in the flesh, and the exposing of toxic doctrines and carnal lusts........and some STILL think that that's alright with God?
Absurd isn't it..?? To imagine that 22 years after the death of twi's founding president, some are still trying to unravel the psycho-emotional/abusive damage wrought by this outfit?.......and others still coming to GS.
BESIDES:
If a corps grad were to always obey, never waver, continuously submit, and ever-jump to the twi board of directors.... for a LIFETIME..............then both wierwille's most sold-out students failed miserably.........
skyrider: The corps logo WAS a five-pointed star with an inner circle......and a 'C' (for Christ) in the core center. Apparently, the program was view to be 'christ-centered'.........with strength and ability derived from there.
Just for the record, the very first Corps seal or logo was created by a second Corps person in 1972 ish before the 1st Corps graduated so it could be put on their graduation certificate. It had two open hands with the list of gift ministries printed on them, a dove and the words The Way Corps. I'll see if I can post a graphic of it...Dr. later discontinued using it because he said people got the idea that everyone who graduated had a gift ministry and that wasn't the case...
...The thing is, twi still exists and is still conning people. In the old days, twi was a fast growing cult that was accumulating money, properties and followers...today, these people are merely maintaining an appearance of "Christian ministry" in order to keep their lush lifestyles intact. The numbers are small and their ability to generate revenue has diminished greatly. I think that the older people are simply coasting on the glory years (assets) of yesteryear...The young ones coming up through the ranks are the trouble makers of tomorrow...
...and twi still reads this site and these posts...they still try to steer their followers away from this site...Personally, I think it's a good idea to have different view points to consider and I enjoy contributing my own from time to time...I like the idea that there are folks in twi who may snap to their senses because of something that they read here.
It would have been nice had there been a resource like this back in 1975...
Just for the record, the very first Corps seal or logo was created by a second Corps person in 1972 ish before the 1st Corps graduated so it could be put on their graduation certificate. It had two open hands with the list of gift ministries printed on them, a dove and the words The Way Corps. I'll see if I can post a graphic of it...Dr. later discontinued using it because he said people got the idea that everyone who graduated had a gift ministry and that wasn't the case...
penworks.........yeah, I sorta remember it. If you can post it.....I'd love to see it.
Kinda ironic about Dr. discontinuing it because of the "gift ministry stuff"........BECAUSE the new pentagon one, that was designed by a 6th corps guy and someone else, could easily have the SAME REPRESENTATION.
...and twi still reads this site and these posts...they still try to steer their followers away from this site...Personally, I think it's a good idea to have different view points to consider and I enjoy contributing my own from time to time...I like the idea that there are folks in twi who may snap to their senses because of something that they read here.
Groucho......I, too, think it's a good idea to have dialogue and different points of view.
hi penworks!..........yup!.......that was the logo on my tee-shirts when i first went in-rez, right before you graduated!......have'nt seen that in at least 20 years!.......thanks for figuring out how to post that.........brought back lots of memories of the several weeks i got to spend with you in-rez corps in 1972, before i took the plunge myself in july, '73...............................always enjoy your perspective and your posts.............thanks again!.....................peace.
whitedove.....in your post below, #141, you mention that I brought up this "unreasonable to require people to make a lifetime commitment at such a young age." I don't recall saying that in such terms.....nor can I seem to find it.
Oakspear ,Socks we are pretty much in agreement as Skyrider brought up it was unreasonable to require people at that age level to make a commitment of that length. I never said it was a smart move only that it was what they asked for.
Yet.....you made reference to it as noted below.
Post #131 -- from whitedove
I think that it was unreasonable to ask a person at the age of 18,19 to make a life choice, But in fact that is what they did, I don't blame anyone for changing their minds , but wouldn't it be more honest to say you know I was young and stupid, and I've changed my mind.
Once again........connecting the dots back to WHO authored this unreasonable requirement of a lifetime commitment from an 18 or 19 year-old....and the WHO you find....the ONE who terminated the "zero corps" is
..........victor paul wierwille.
And further, whitedove..........I do agree with you, though. It was NOT a smart move. :)
whitedove.....in your post below, #141, you mention that I brought up this "unreasonable to require people to make a lifetime commitment at such a young age." I don't recall saying that in such terms.....nor can I seem to find it.
Yet.....you made reference to it as noted below.
Post #131 -- from whitedove
Once again........connecting the dots back to WHO authored this unreasonable requirement of a lifetime commitment from an 18 or 19 year-old....and the WHO you find....the ONE who terminated the "zero corps" is
..........victor paul wierwille.
And further, whitedove..........I do agree with you, though. It was NOT a smart move. :)
And, one more thing........the corps program was static, not dynamic. In other words.......they never wanted to take into account that people GREW UP, and married, and had families, and careers, and extended family responsibilities, and homeownership duties, and A LIFE OUTSIDE TWI'S 'boot camp training.'
I guess I was thinking of this ,while you are correct in that you never mentioned an age. I guess it was my understanding of what you wrote. I suppose I assumed from GREW UP that you were speaking of a younger age followed by got married ,and had families, and careers , things typically that happen as one grows up from a young age. In light of all ahead and the unknown possibilities that could or would happen it seemed you were stating that it was static and as such an unreasonable request because it did not take into consideration a persons life changes.
I was never in doubt that VPW made the request it was his program, ,but that was the deal good or bad, no one had to accept it. Me personally I try to honor that choice just like I would honor a business deal whether it was a good one or a bad one.,others may not choose to , as for me if I agreed then I hold to the agreement.
The explosive temper tantrums and vicious criticisms of the teacher doesn't negate the truth in the teachings. :)
I think it rather that it negates the so-called "teacher" - who clearly isn't living what is taught - and therefore disqualifies himself from teaching and is a disgrace to God
Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law [or of whatever is being taught - grace, in our administration], and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law [or, grace];
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law [or, grace].
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law [or, grace], through breaking the law or abuse of grace dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Twinky, all are sinners. We all are swift to sin; are hypocrites. In other words we all stink. That's why I continue to believe the emphasis should be on the greatness of God and his son's accomplishments; Jesus' broken body and shed blood, his bodily resurrection from the dead, his ascension to the right hand of God. Far as I'm concerned, those who declare His righteousness and have faithfully preached this truth year after year and continue to do so are worthy of teaching these truths, despite their sins or "cult affiliations." The sins of the preacher does not negate the truths in the preaching.
Continue reading in Romans and consider these verses:
Rom 3:9 ¶ What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God ...
But in context this is getting at those who set out to teach one thing whilst deliberately doing something different. We're not talking about the occasional falling short of the mark but a persistent abuse, a failure to even try to live up to the standard, a teaching of that which the teacher knows in no way matches his lifestyle.
Try reading Galatians 5 about the works of the flesh. Very interesting if read in different versions. One version even talks about fits of rage and explosive outbursts.
Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. (NIV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: (KJV)
Paul (the former religious zealot known as Saul, much given to works of the flesh, including murder) tells us to be "followers of him" but I don't think he meant in the things of his sinful nature. And I do not see that Paul continued in the sinful nature but rather that he made such an about-face that those approving of his former lifestyle persecuted him.
But in context this is getting at those who set out to teach one thing whilst deliberately doing something different. We're not talking about the occasional falling short of the mark but a persistent abuse, a failure to even try to live up to the standard, a teaching of that which the teacher knows in no way matches his lifestyle.
This DEFINITELY bears repeating (and repeating, and repeating and repeating)!!
But in context this is getting at those who set out to teach one thing whilst deliberately doing something different. We're not talking about the occasional falling short of the mark but a persistent abuse, a failure to even try to live up to the standard, a teaching of that which the teacher knows in no way matches his lifestyle.
Repeating...again.
I seem to recall Jesus having something to say about the Pharisees being hypocrites. Ummmmm.... they made laws that they themselves couldn't follow.
So vp handed out a two drink limit - but did he follow it?
He told the in-rez corps they couldn't smoke if their tuition wasn't paid (this started with the 10th) and then smoked in front of the corps...while he lived lavishly on abundant sharing.
Then...hmmmm... I seem to remember a teaching about being a tupos...an impression made by repeated blows. What kind of example was vp with his lifestyle? What did he teach by the lessons he had others see? Afterall, he was oh so fond of that poem that began with the first line,
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GrouchoMarxJr
A lot of thoughtful insight from a lot of good folks who went through this crap...
Of COURSE there was an expectation to take assignments after the fours years of training was complete...The majority of corps grads were taking yearly assignments and the few who were not, were not spoken highly of.
BUT...BUT...BUT... twi presented the taking of assignments as OPTIONAL in writing!...It was on the form that I signed, when I signed up for the corps...say what you will about what twi "expected", I held them accountable for what they had put in writing...and I made a lot of enemies by doing so...I refused to give in to the peer pressure...perhaps it was my own way of maintaining my own individuality...I'm not sure but I do know that they put it in writing and I didn't care what anybody thought. To me, it was a matter of integrity...THEY put the option in writing...otherwise, I never would have signed up.
I realize that what I am saying is the exception as to how people thought and acted at the time...like I said, when Martindale announced that our committment was for a lifetime and not for 4 years...NOBODY complained about it (that I know of)...except me.
I was fully aware of the "corps culture" that existed...They had turned the reading of the corps assignments into a yearly twi cultural event...
I knew what they expected from me...but I also knew what they had put in writing...I suppose I was a maverick that didn't quite fit in...but then again, I never was a very good arse kisser.
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skyrider
Oakspear......yeah, a few military guys got "special clearence to do their thing."
And, medical people were given the nod to "keep on a-doing their medical service."
And, artists spent time away from classes to paint murals on the dining room walls at emporia.
And, Dxxg Cxxk.....a blind man went into the 7th corps.
And, a few corps builders went to work at that Colorado Log Homes company.
And, "recognized corps" were accepted with a ONE-YEAR and "done" deal.
And, spouse corps were "to be raised up" by their corps grad spouse.
And, "dancing to the beat of all this activity" made for lots of action.
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Ham
right before I left- I saw a guy who had a damn good job at a mattress company in Indiana, and a really nice home.. abandon his life and livelihood because der vey told him so..
they were "corps".. supposed to be at der masta's beck and call..
they came to "podunk" Michigan.
the couple took it out on the area here.. like you wouldn't believe.
Who in their RIGHT mind would abandon a 50K a year job, with retirement, benefits..
while having six kids to feed and provide for..
in their right mind..
finally went on staff at the Indiana campus. but how long did that last.. it's no longer there.
Before they left.. they squeezed the area for every last dime they could get..
hope it was "sweet" fellas..
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WhiteDove
For what its worth Groucho I think you are correct, depending on the year you could request assignments as well. Although if your plan and their plan were not one in the same one could expect "some resistance". In any case some level of service to the organization was expected, more or less demanded, even if it was simply running a Twig. Although I remember a few exceptions to that as well.
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skyrider
Groucho......you bring up a good point about "corps culture."
Reaching it's zenith years from 1981-1985, the corps household had its own culture of buzzwords, corps-speak, pecking order, favortisms, and whatnot. And, the Corps Household Newsletter was like in-sider information that would sometimes include wierwille addressing some "corps-commitment issue" that he felt needed immediate attention. Of course, martindale took over these responsibilities in 1982.
IMO........this *corps household* stuff was running at cross-purposes with "the household of the way." Then, when geer was sent to europe and began building *his* work there..............soon, on the horizon we started hearing about the *European Corps Household* and gartmore training. In fact, as I remember it.......Cgeer told F!nn3gan (the world-wide outreach coordinator) that geer's european corps would NOT be participating in corps weeks every year, but that the new-geer policy would be every third year they'd come to the USA.
In rough estimates (1982).....each year, regular corps enrollments were around 325.
The Family Corps numbers, each year............around 175-200 (minus children).
Then, by 1983.......European corps enrollment probably 30-40.
IMO.........that's why the "Word in Culture" concept was (and would have been) THE RIGHT PATH TO PURSUE for the longevity of "christian and community involvement." I know, I know.......it didn't happen and twi digressed back into its isolation, and defensive posture, and vpw died, etc. etc........but what if????
Besides.......many of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th corps had given and served in areas of their interest and abilities ..... and some, rightfully so.....were ready to further their educational goals, career goals, raising families, etc and would still support twi with tithes, counsel, etc. To be more specific, I was working alongside a first corps grad in 1981 who had served as a limb coordinator for many years and then, came to hq to work as a department coordinator. He and I spent lots of time together.....and after some ten years of this, he was submitting his resignation as a staffer and moving away at the end of the ministry year. This example I cited was just one of many.
Look at how the corps numbers swelled..........training some 500 corps/family corps each year. Did twi really have a need for THAT many "leaders"..........or did they need the MONEY, AND FREE-LABOR that was pouring in???
IMO........many of "the old guard of early corps grads" were moving on.....lots of examples come to mind, but I don't want to start naming names........except, there are the "jox coultxr types" who firmly planted his SECULAR goals in twi's a/v department.......and is still there!! Others too. Of course, if you believe that twi is "the spiritual epicenter of the universe" then it all makes sense......hahahahahaha
So yeah, groucho.......the reading of the corps assignment stuff was "THE STAGE PERSONA" of twi's hype and hoopla whereas us *BOOTS ON THE GROUND-TYPES* knew why they flaunted this stuff.
Enuff said.
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excathedra
for what it's worth and i'm thinking little
i can't understand this stuff anymore
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ex10
Ok, it seems obvious to me, from reading this thread anyway, that the way corps program "evolved" over time. The problem was, the rules were changed as things rolled along, without consulting the "volunteers."
Typical "bait and switch," that the cult was so skilled at.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Even the concept of the corps was not original with Wierwille...E. Stanley Jones (a Wierwille favorite) wrote a book about spending time in an Ashram program entitled "Abundant Living" written, I believe in 1922.
In the book, Jones explains the concept of teachers and students living together...working, eating, studying together...all of it is there. The first few corps were small in number and it was a more personal experience...by the time the 6th corps came around, it was nothing more than herding cattle through hallways and playing tapes...
By the time the 10th corps came around, it was difficult to find things to do at Emporia...there were more workers than there was work to do...I was assigned to walk around campus all day with a screwdriver in my hand looking for loose screws on chairs...and I paid good money for this training!
...As far as I can see, the greatest benefit of the waycorps training was that you got to walk around with a corps nametag on...and THAT demonstrated to everyone how spiritual you were...amen and amen.
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waysider
Ya know, when you say, "I can't understand this stuff anymore", it's kinda like saying, "I think I understand it now."
:B)
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skyrider
:) -- A Lifetime of Christian Service .............. "We ought to OBEY GOD rather than men."
Absurd isn't it..?? To even consider that one would/should obey and submit to an organization that CONTINUES TO STRAY further and further from scripture.
Absurd isn't it..?? To think in any stretch of the imagination that "Christian" and "the twi organization" have any sense of sunesis (two rivers converging and flowing together) as twi hordes the abs and exploits followers.
Absurd isn't it..?? To bring up vague wording in some corps brochure that gave OPTIONS TO TAKE ASSIGNMENTS or NOT......and to try and hold it with a "strict, beady-eyed, pharisee club" to try and infer lack of commitment.
Absurd isn't it..?? To now see the wierwille plagiarism, the wierwille adulation, the wierwille in the flesh, and the exposing of toxic doctrines and carnal lusts........and some STILL think that that's alright with God?
Absurd isn't it..?? To imagine that 22 years after the death of twi's founding president, some are still trying to unravel the psycho-emotional/abusive damage wrought by this outfit?.......and others still coming to GS.
BESIDES:
If a corps grad were to always obey, never waver, continuously submit, and ever-jump to the twi board of directors.... for a LIFETIME..............then both wierwille's most sold-out students failed miserably.........
1) 2nd corps grad..........L. Craig Martindale
2) 7th corps grad...........Chrisxopher C. Gexr
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penworks
skyrider: The corps logo WAS a five-pointed star with an inner circle......and a 'C' (for Christ) in the core center. Apparently, the program was view to be 'christ-centered'.........with strength and ability derived from there.
Just for the record, the very first Corps seal or logo was created by a second Corps person in 1972 ish before the 1st Corps graduated so it could be put on their graduation certificate. It had two open hands with the list of gift ministries printed on them, a dove and the words The Way Corps. I'll see if I can post a graphic of it...Dr. later discontinued using it because he said people got the idea that everyone who graduated had a gift ministry and that wasn't the case...
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GrouchoMarxJr
...The thing is, twi still exists and is still conning people. In the old days, twi was a fast growing cult that was accumulating money, properties and followers...today, these people are merely maintaining an appearance of "Christian ministry" in order to keep their lush lifestyles intact. The numbers are small and their ability to generate revenue has diminished greatly. I think that the older people are simply coasting on the glory years (assets) of yesteryear...The young ones coming up through the ranks are the trouble makers of tomorrow...
...and twi still reads this site and these posts...they still try to steer their followers away from this site...Personally, I think it's a good idea to have different view points to consider and I enjoy contributing my own from time to time...I like the idea that there are folks in twi who may snap to their senses because of something that they read here.
It would have been nice had there been a resource like this back in 1975...
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skyrider
penworks.........yeah, I sorta remember it. If you can post it.....I'd love to see it.
Kinda ironic about Dr. discontinuing it because of the "gift ministry stuff"........BECAUSE the new pentagon one, that was designed by a 6th corps guy and someone else, could easily have the SAME REPRESENTATION.
Groucho......I, too, think it's a good idea to have dialogue and different points of view.
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penworks
Here you go.
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JeffSjo
I am really thankfull for you living history lessons!!
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DontWorryBeHappy
hi penworks!..........yup!.......that was the logo on my tee-shirts when i first went in-rez, right before you graduated!......have'nt seen that in at least 20 years!.......thanks for figuring out how to post that.........brought back lots of memories of the several weeks i got to spend with you in-rez corps in 1972, before i took the plunge myself in july, '73...............................always enjoy your perspective and your posts.............thanks again!.....................peace.
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skyrider
whitedove.....in your post below, #141, you mention that I brought up this "unreasonable to require people to make a lifetime commitment at such a young age." I don't recall saying that in such terms.....nor can I seem to find it.
Yet.....you made reference to it as noted below.
Post #131 -- from whitedove
Once again........connecting the dots back to WHO authored this unreasonable requirement of a lifetime commitment from an 18 or 19 year-old....and the WHO you find....the ONE who terminated the "zero corps" is
..........victor paul wierwille.
And further, whitedove..........I do agree with you, though. It was NOT a smart move. :)
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WhiteDove
I guess I was thinking of this ,while you are correct in that you never mentioned an age. I guess it was my understanding of what you wrote. I suppose I assumed from GREW UP that you were speaking of a younger age followed by got married ,and had families, and careers , things typically that happen as one grows up from a young age. In light of all ahead and the unknown possibilities that could or would happen it seemed you were stating that it was static and as such an unreasonable request because it did not take into consideration a persons life changes.
I was never in doubt that VPW made the request it was his program, ,but that was the deal good or bad, no one had to accept it. Me personally I try to honor that choice just like I would honor a business deal whether it was a good one or a bad one.,others may not choose to , as for me if I agreed then I hold to the agreement.
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Twinky
I think it rather that it negates the so-called "teacher" - who clearly isn't living what is taught - and therefore disqualifies himself from teaching and is a disgrace to God
Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law [or of whatever is being taught - grace, in our administration], and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law [or, grace];
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law [or, grace].
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law [or, grace], through breaking the law or abuse of grace dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
I b'lieve the usual word is "hypocrite."
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Twinky
Ithought this bore repeating...
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oldiesman
Twinky, all are sinners. We all are swift to sin; are hypocrites. In other words we all stink. That's why I continue to believe the emphasis should be on the greatness of God and his son's accomplishments; Jesus' broken body and shed blood, his bodily resurrection from the dead, his ascension to the right hand of God. Far as I'm concerned, those who declare His righteousness and have faithfully preached this truth year after year and continue to do so are worthy of teaching these truths, despite their sins or "cult affiliations." The sins of the preacher does not negate the truths in the preaching.
Continue reading in Romans and consider these verses:
Rom 3:9 ¶ What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God ...
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Twinky
True, Oldies, we all commit sin.
But in context this is getting at those who set out to teach one thing whilst deliberately doing something different. We're not talking about the occasional falling short of the mark but a persistent abuse, a failure to even try to live up to the standard, a teaching of that which the teacher knows in no way matches his lifestyle.
Try reading Galatians 5 about the works of the flesh. Very interesting if read in different versions. One version even talks about fits of rage and explosive outbursts.
Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. (NIV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: (KJV)
Paul (the former religious zealot known as Saul, much given to works of the flesh, including murder) tells us to be "followers of him" but I don't think he meant in the things of his sinful nature. And I do not see that Paul continued in the sinful nature but rather that he made such an about-face that those approving of his former lifestyle persecuted him.
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TheHighWay
This DEFINITELY bears repeating (and repeating, and repeating and repeating)!!
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doojable
Repeating...again.
I seem to recall Jesus having something to say about the Pharisees being hypocrites. Ummmmm.... they made laws that they themselves couldn't follow.
So vp handed out a two drink limit - but did he follow it?
He told the in-rez corps they couldn't smoke if their tuition wasn't paid (this started with the 10th) and then smoked in front of the corps...while he lived lavishly on abundant sharing.
Then...hmmmm... I seem to remember a teaching about being a tupos...an impression made by repeated blows. What kind of example was vp with his lifestyle? What did he teach by the lessons he had others see? Afterall, he was oh so fond of that poem that began with the first line,
I'd rather see a sermon than hear one anyday
Oldies - vp's actions were his teachings.
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