Sky-Perhaps an experience I had with the j2p2 corpse could help answer part of your question.
I was a grad of VPs corps as you know. One day one of the new j2p2 corpusles sent to our area took me aside and told me what LOY had told them. He told to me that they the new corps (j2p2) corps trained under LOY had gifts in operation. (really you get this from being in a program?). They were trained on a higher level than VPs corps and that it was sort of like out with the old and in with the new. Well that was news to me.
I figured out that this was about the most dumbest thing I had ever heard. It was about then that I also figured that things were so messed up with twi that it was time to exit. Glad I did.
Your right you don't have to - translated means you have no good answers other than you just think so .. which is obvious to any clear thinking person.
They were trained on a higher level than VPs corps and that it was sort of like out with the old and in with the new. Well that was news to me.
I figured out that this was about the most dumbest thing I had ever heard. It was about then that I also figured that things were so messed up with twi that it was time to exit. Glad I did.
PB......
I wonder........is Rosie's corps being trained on a higher level than Loy's..?????
A perpetual caste-system/elitist attitude..........I don't miss it at all.
cman & others.....who have joined in this discussion of late.
A little over 2 years ago, this corps topic namely A lifetime of Christian service was a hot-topic of discussion........as many who frequent GS probably remember. WhiteDove took the posture of "corps brochures and fulfilling what one signed up to do"......Click Here
My post (#54).....was in response to WD's staunch approach to the stated corps brochure.
THEN.....I responded to this corps brochure that WD presented:
Okay......let's just look at this.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve.......serve where??....in areas of concern, interest and need. Succinct. Simple. Vague.
Where they serve depends upon their desire.........THEIR desire.....(their) ability, and the needs of the ministry. First mentioned is THEIR DESIRE. Is it mentioned first, because THAT is the most important priority? Their ability is also an important quality. And, the needs of the ministry are included in the mix. Two of the three points make note of the INDIVIDUAL.
Thanks whitedove.................I can agree with twi's logic of the INDIVIDUAL'S DESIRE listed first.
That's the way I understood it when I signed on the line.
:) ......For some reason....this topic is of much interest to WhiteDove -- who never went corps.
Your right I'm always concerned when things are misrepresented. So can you explain why a knowledge of the ministry was needed to train people to serve other places?
to WhiteDove -- who never went corps
You obviously are confused, you can retract you remark , or else I'll report it
I don't think anyone here is saying they would want to train folks to participate in other people's groups... the concept was WORD IN CULTURE... so the corps training WAS indeed promoted for a time as being leadership training in the Bible that you could then take into AREAS OF CONCERN, INTEREST, and NEED where you worked, lived, and played so you could show other people how to be a successful christian. (and give due credit to your theology and practices, aka to twi)
Not to mention, twi was supposed to be based on Biblical PRINCIPLES... so it wouldn't matter what field you wanted to go into, the principles should work across the board. Look at who they were promoting all through the early 80s... football players, rodeo cowboys, a judge, a wrestling coach, business men and women... people who had excelled at their professions and who had promoted twi at the same time.
These are not ridiculous statements at all...
I understand the word in culture bit , Really, after all they only neded so many staff and Limb leaders that does not eliminate work for the ministry, as I remember it was pretty hard to at least not be running a Twig I think that was the basic least requirement. And of course serve at functions and Corps week. Sounds like leadership for the ministry to me.
Like Doojable said
Quote
A corps grad had to accept an assignment as having been handed to them by divine revelation. Some arguing would be acceptable - but resistance was futile, for the most part.
How you were treated after you declined an assignment depended on many things - but not one of them had to do with what was best for you or your family.
As I recall, for most folks, if you declined an assignment, you were considered non-corps. That of course brought you the divine calling of "Copped Out Corps."
So I ask again why would one need to get an assignment each year if you were doing your own thing? If you were just being trained to get a job and have nothing to do with service to the Way why report? So why did you all those years if you felt that you were done? And if not accepting an assignment from The Way qualified you as non Corps why would that be prey tell if the goal was for you to do your own thing? Why would you be punished for doing what the goal (as you seem to think for the Program was)? Gee I'm bettin' that it's maybe because they thought you were supposed to be doing something for them and wern't..........
Skyrider, I never suggested that everything Dr. Wierwille taught was correct and God breathed. All I'm continuing to say is that his sins don't make the teachings wrong. His good works don't make the teachings right. The teachings stand or fall on their own, irrespective of the actions of the teacher. We all should rightly divide the word of truth for ourselves to get the true word.
In my humble opinion, I think the Bible set a higher standard of criteria for judging someone's teachings. A biblical viewpoint takes in the wordsANDworks of the person: As in Matthew 5:19 [Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven].
And by the bad example one sets – how they "follow" the Scriptures – acts like an active ingredient to poison their teaching – to render it a doctrine of hypocrisy – see Matthew 16:12 and Luke 12:1.
Only in the twisted Wierwille-centric logic can a sexual predator quote unto the pure all things are purewhile he's molesting a woman…Let's see now, his sin of molesting her doesn't make his teaching wrong? What about how he's teaching her to apply that verse?....How does this scene stack up to the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:19? Let's try a couple more on for size, shall we? I've so renewed my mind that __ __ [fill in the blank with the sin of your choice] doesn't bother me. ..... If you're spiritually mature you can handle __ __ [fill in the blank with the sin of your choice].
It seems that your opinions and comments on that thread....A lifetime of Christian service.....were in question since you never went Corps.
Obviously, this background knowledge was quite revealing in light of your adamant statements.
They must have missed that when I got the nametag I guess ,I guess when I got a yearly appraisal & assignment as well , and I suppose no one informed Craig when he sent that demand letter and dropped from active status letter as well.
What the heck is so darned hard to understand about this junk?
They were never interested in "training" people to go forth as mighty leaders.
Every person who enrolled represented a potential source of income, whether it be from sponsorship, ABS, free labor or a "generous" donation to the "let's buy DOCTOR an Indian Motorcycle, 'cause it'll bless his heart" fund.
What's more, it was set up like a multi level marketing (MLM) organization.
(I bring Joe in, Joe brings Bob in, Bob brings Oscar in and on and on and on.)
They wanted people to fizzle out.
Sort of a self pruning effect.
Make way for the new blood who can still bring in a bunch of new prospects who in turn will bring in more new prospects.
(And all the time bringing in a new source of cash flow)
Kinda like the soap selling guys.
Bring in all your friends and family and maybe some outsiders.
But when you've reached the saturation level, who really needs you?
Romanticize all you want if it makes you feel less foolish, but that's the big picture that comes into focus if you stand far enough away to see it.
So I ask again why would one need to get an assignment each year if you were doing your own thing? If you were just being trained to get a job and have nothing to do with service to the Way why report? So why did you all those years if you felt that you were done? And if not accepting an assignment from The Way qualified you as non Corps why would that be prey tell if the goal was for you to do your own thing? Why would you be punished for doing what the goal (as you seem to think for the Program was)?
WhiteDove.......(sigh) I'll try to explain this to you one more time.
The corps program.....like so many things in twi.....has EVOLVED THROUGH MANY STAGES since its inception. Seems that wierwille referred to it being like "a school of tyrannus".......or like a "marine-style discipline training"......where equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise (from corps poem) would go forth to serve, to work.
And, as you pointed out from one of the corps brochures......"Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. Where they serve depends upon their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry."
Yes......They (corps grads) serve depending on their desire......and their ability......and the needs of the ministry.
Advanced class grads from all walks of life were encouraged to grow spiritually and go forth as leaders. From about 1977-1982.......after PFAL '77 remember?......lots of ministry exposure and promo for advanced class grads to learn and grow via the corps program.
Some corps......were nurses, medical personnel (even lcm's medical doctor was corps alumni)
Some corps......were military men (for a period of time, military outreach was a segment of the trunk office at hq)
Some corps......were businessmen and women, writers, musicians, pro athletes, etc.
Some corps......were pilots, (went in corps and then BACK to hq to pilot the planes)
Some corps......were hq staff secretaries, department heads, way builders.
Some corps......went on to get their doctorates.
Heck, martindale made it MANDATORY for all way productions to go into the corps program BEFORE performing on stage at ministry functions. So, people went corps.....then picked up their instrument to perform on stage.
Word in Culture was a huge deal at this time.
All five corps objectives were general concepts.......#1 spiritually, #2 mentally, #3 physical, #4 financially and #5 go forth with christian service.
Guess it depends on how one perceived that "going forth in christian service" to mean......because there were examples and lifestyles from "soup to nuts."
They must have missed that when I got the nametag I guess ,I guess when I got a yearly appraisal & assignment as well , and I suppose no one informed Craig when he sent that demand letter and dropped from active status letter as well.
:blink: :blink: ........YOU DIDN'T OBJECT to those posts stating that you were NON-CORPS two years ago. <_<
What the heck is so darned hard to understand about this junk?
They were never interested in "training" people to go forth as mighty leaders.
They wanted people to fizzle out.
Sort of a self pruning effect.
Make way for the new blood who can still bring in a bunch of new prospects who in turn will bring in more new prospects.
(And all the time bringing in a new source of cash flow)
Really cause I'm thinkin' there sure are a lot of folks including many here who put in 20 - 25 years or more and about three times as many elsewhere still working that seemed to miss that message.......... so much for the fizzle factor.
WhiteDove.......(sigh) I'll try to explain this to you one more time.
The corps program.....like so many things in twi.....has EVOLVED THROUGH MANY STAGES since its inception. Seems that wierwille referred to it being like "a school of tyrannus".......or like a "marine-style discipline training"......where equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise (from corps poem) would go forth to serve, to work.
And, as you pointed out from one of the corps brochures......"Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. Where they serve depends upon their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry."
Yes......They (corps grads) serve depending on their desire......and their ability......and the needs of the ministry.
Advanced class grads from all walks of life were encouraged to grow spiritually and go forth as leaders. From about 1977-1982.......after PFAL '77 remember?......lots of ministry exposure and promo for advanced class grads to learn and grow via the corps program.
Some corps......were nurses, medical personnel (even lcm's medical doctor was corps alumni)
Some corps......were military men (for a period of time, military outreach was a segment of the trunk office at hq)
Some corps......were businessmen and women, writers, musicians, pro athletes, etc.
Some corps......were pilots, (went in corps and then BACK to hq to pilot the planes)
Some corps......were hq staff secretaries, department heads, way builders.
Some corps......went on to get their doctorates.
Heck, martindale made it MANDATORY for all way productions to go into the corps program BEFORE performing on stage at ministry functions. So, people went corps.....then picked up their instrument to perform on stage.
Word in Culture was a huge deal at this time.
All five corps objectives were general concepts.......#1 spiritually, #2 mentally, #3 physical, #4 financially and #5 go forth with christian service.
Guess it depends on how one perceived that "going forth in christian service" to mean......because there were examples and lifestyles from "soup to nuts."
:blink: :blink: ........YOU DIDN'T OBJECT to those posts stating that you were NON-CORPS two years ago. <_<
So why did they drop them as Doojable said when they refsed an assignment, if they were happy with them being a nurse? , it appears they were not pleased, looks to me like they expected one to serve as they committed to for a lifetime. It doesn't look like they were happy as clams to have trained them only to have them not do what they were trained for......
........YOU DIDN'T OBJECT to those posts stating that you were NON-CORPS two years ago.
Actually I believe I did and I have discussed this with Pawtucket as well back then.
So why did they drop them as Doojable said when they refsed an assignment, if they were happy with them being a nurse? , it appears they were not pleased, looks to me like they expected one to serve as they committed to for a lifetime. It doesn't look like they were happy as clams to have trained them only to have them not do what they were trained for......
Yep............it's ALL about what they think.
Maybe........the oppressors didn't think the corps were "jumping" high enough???
Maybe........the oppressors didn't think the corps were "jumping" high enough???
Oh but they would not have to jump now would they, you see they were all done ,you know doin their own thing ....... Nope no reason to check in all done after four years...So the question remains why did you check in ? maybe because you knew that you were expected to be serving? :blink:
I wonder.. why else would they change the rules, requirements, expectatations on the fly.. unless they KNEW people wouldn't sign if they knew what they REALLY were gonna do?
it would be like taking the big executive position.. sign a contract written in sand, and finding yourself cleaning parking lots and hosing out rather nasty dumpsters..
I know corps that experienced something like this.
but it didn't happen overnight. It was one little "insignificant" change in the contract at a time..
And I have reported your post to the moderators for mentioning my "family", again. You've been asked many times not to do it. Forum rules ask us not to get personal, and you've gotten personal again. That's all I'm gonna say, I hope the moderators take some action.
and
You obviously are confused, you can retract you remark , or else I'll report it.
wow... people sure have "thin skins" round this place...
does this "i'm gonna report you" stuff happen often in here??
especially since the imagined "offenses" seem so trivial to me...
i mean, one person mentioned the word "family" and you would have thought they cussed up a storm...
and the other person had perceived misinformation... so what?... it's not enough to clear up the misinformation... people gotta go around "reporting" this minutia...
i feel sorry for the moderators who have to listen to these petty complaints...
p.s. i'm not sure i understand what the conversation on this thread is all about...
as far as i can tell:
in reference to a "lifetime" of committment and service to twi, some folks think it was a "bait and switch" and some folks think that one should have known from the moment they entered the corps that it meant a lifetime of committment to "the way" organization....
wow... people sure have "thin skins" round this place...
does this "i'm gonna report you" stuff happen often in here??
especially since the imagined "offenses" seem so trivial to me...
i mean, one person mentioned the word "family" and you would have thought they cussed up a storm...
and the other person had perceived misinformation... so what?... it's not enough to clear up the misinformation... people gotta go around "reporting" this minutia...
i feel sorry for the moderators who have to listen to these petty complaints...
If it was perceived which it was not....... then again on the other side of the fence we have to hear their complaints and face their reports of personel attacks when we call someone a liar, I don't know ,when you consistently repeat the same thing and the information is not true my grandma always said that was the word for it , if one is lying it would seem ok to call them one, they earned the name , apparently the rules don't work the same both ways...... I'm just thinkin that they should If one is being misrepresented then one should have recourse the same as everyone else. I don't see that as thin skinned, just evening the playing field.
I understand the word in culture bit , Really, after all they only neded so many staff and Limb leaders that does not eliminate work for the ministry, as I remember it was pretty hard to at least not be running a Twig I think that was the basic least requirement. And of course serve at functions and Corps week. Sounds like leadership for the ministry to me.
Like Doojable said
Quote
A corps grad had to accept an assignment as having been handed to them by divine revelation. Some arguing would be acceptable - but resistance was futile, for the most part.
How you were treated after you declined an assignment depended on many things - but not one of them had to do with what was best for you or your family.
As I recall, for most folks, if you declined an assignment, you were considered non-corps. That of course brought you the divine calling of "Copped Out Corps."
So I ask again why would one need to get an assignment each year if you were doing your own thing? If you were just being trained to get a job and have nothing to do with service to the Way why report? So why did you all those years if you felt that you were done? And if not accepting an assignment from The Way qualified you as non Corps why would that be prey tell if the goal was for you to do your own thing? Why would you be punished for doing what the goal (as you seem to think for the Program was)? Gee I'm bettin' that it's maybe because they thought you were supposed to be doing something for them and wern't..........
WD - My point was that the written materials implied that there was the possibility that an assignment could be declined with no consequences.
In reality declining an assignment got you on a list sent out to all corps saying that you were no longer "Active Corps."
There was a lot of double-speak, a lot of misrepresentation, a lot of lies and ridicule.
That being said, I kept my service as Corps and my love and service to God very separate. In my mind the Corps nametag was only worth keeping if it helped me to serve God.
It took me longer than I care to admit that I needed to drop the Corps thing.
Okay, I'm done arguing in circles. Some folks simply don't want to understand. Let it be.
So the question still remains If you thought you were done ,finished after your four years of training, no obligation to lead in the way, exactly why did one feel the need to submit to yearly appraisals? Cause ya know when I was done with grade school after my training I don't remember going back each year for a teacher conference, generally because I did not feel I needed to since I was done. When I graduated from high school I did not return for a grade card either each year . Why you ask? cause I was done, program over. Now if one maintains that they were done upon graduation no more requirement to serve, doin' your own thing, fulfilled your obligation, exactly just why did everyone return for an assignment ,an evaluation, a work assignment at Corps week for something that was done ?
Seems like there would be no point if one had finished. Now on the other hand when I was trained for my job I did return each year because I understood I was not done ,that is what I agreed to be trained for and as such I had a yearly appraisal. When I changed jobs I no longer went back for an appraisal. That seems the way it works for most people if your done you need not return if your not you do. So if you perceived you were done, just exactly why did you feel obligated to answer to something that you had finished? The only logical reason is that one felt that they had some requirement to do ,an obligation to fulfill, apparently contrary to what they would like to argue years later, they apparently felt a need to because they were not done ,and they knew it . I've heard many complain about having to work at Corps week year after year so just why did you do that if you were done, wouldn't one just say I'm done I'm not showing up I don't have to? That’s what I'd do if my old job called and assigned a schedule to me. Yet it seems again people continued to do so. The facts and actions despite the argument years later, don't line up. The only logical reason for continuing to submit to such actions is that someone felt it was a requirement to do so due to a commitment. Apparently they knew they were not done......
WD - My point was that the written materials implied that there was the possibility that an assignment could be declined with no consequences.
In reality declining an assignment got you on a list sent out to all corps saying that you were no longer "Active Corps."
There was a lot of double-speak, a lot of misrepresentation, a lot of lies and ridicule.
I understand and agree , I also understand that if the program was for four years and you were done, no implication that you had any further commitment to lead for them in any capacity then there would be no need to address any assignment issues period, either declining or accepting cause you were done. No obligation ,no assignment issues either way to address. Apparently they felt there were going to be ongoing assignments of some sort for their leaders they had trained and that they needed to clarify how that would work. despite the fact as you correctly pointed out what was said was not what was done.) Again If one believed they had no further responsibility to the program they would have just said Hey I'm done, I did not sign on for this and yet year after year they did not do so ,they did that which apparently hearing now was something they did not want to do. It seems logical that they accepted the fact that some form of continued leadership role and evaluation was warranted by their continued actions.
My experience is that people don't do things they hate doing year after year after year when they aren't required to and they know and agree that they are not. Generally they do it when they feel they are supposed to by some previous understanding.
It's easy to argue that what was said was not what they understood years later, but it becomes tough to take seriously when their actions prove otherwise. For years despite apparently not liking what they continued to do, they did it anyway, presumably when they knew or felt that they had no obligation to do so. That leaves little weasle room for the argument. Of course that would mean they would now have to admit that they did understand that there was some implication that they would have further commitments to serve , and that the record shows by their actions that they continued to accept this process despite not liking it because they did in fact understand that it was required of them to stay in the program. .
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polar bear
Sky-Perhaps an experience I had with the j2p2 corpse could help answer part of your question.
I was a grad of VPs corps as you know. One day one of the new j2p2 corpusles sent to our area took me aside and told me what LOY had told them. He told to me that they the new corps (j2p2) corps trained under LOY had gifts in operation. (really you get this from being in a program?). They were trained on a higher level than VPs corps and that it was sort of like out with the old and in with the new. Well that was news to me.
I figured out that this was about the most dumbest thing I had ever heard. It was about then that I also figured that things were so messed up with twi that it was time to exit. Glad I did.
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cman
Wrong again whitedove.
And you have done this insult before.
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skyrider
PB......
I wonder........is Rosie's corps being trained on a higher level than Loy's..?????
A perpetual caste-system/elitist attitude..........I don't miss it at all.
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WhiteDove
Your right I'm always concerned when things are misrepresented. So can you explain why a knowledge of the ministry was needed to train people to serve other places?
You obviously are confused, you can retract you remark , or else I'll report it
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WhiteDove
I understand the word in culture bit , Really, after all they only neded so many staff and Limb leaders that does not eliminate work for the ministry, as I remember it was pretty hard to at least not be running a Twig I think that was the basic least requirement. And of course serve at functions and Corps week. Sounds like leadership for the ministry to me.
Like Doojable said
Quote
A corps grad had to accept an assignment as having been handed to them by divine revelation. Some arguing would be acceptable - but resistance was futile, for the most part.
How you were treated after you declined an assignment depended on many things - but not one of them had to do with what was best for you or your family.
As I recall, for most folks, if you declined an assignment, you were considered non-corps. That of course brought you the divine calling of "Copped Out Corps."
So I ask again why would one need to get an assignment each year if you were doing your own thing? If you were just being trained to get a job and have nothing to do with service to the Way why report? So why did you all those years if you felt that you were done? And if not accepting an assignment from The Way qualified you as non Corps why would that be prey tell if the goal was for you to do your own thing? Why would you be punished for doing what the goal (as you seem to think for the Program was)? Gee I'm bettin' that it's maybe because they thought you were supposed to be doing something for them and wern't..........
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T-Bone
In my humble opinion, I think the Bible set a higher standard of criteria for judging someone's teachings. A biblical viewpoint takes in the words AND works of the person: As in Matthew 5:19 [Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven].
And by the bad example one sets – how they "follow" the Scriptures – acts like an active ingredient to poison their teaching – to render it a doctrine of hypocrisy – see Matthew 16:12 and Luke 12:1.
Only in the twisted Wierwille-centric logic can a sexual predator quote unto the pure all things are pure while he's molesting a woman…Let's see now, his sin of molesting her doesn't make his teaching wrong? What about how he's teaching her to apply that verse?....How does this scene stack up to the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:19? Let's try a couple more on for size, shall we? I've so renewed my mind that __ __ [fill in the blank with the sin of your choice] doesn't bother me. ..... If you're spiritually mature you can handle __ __ [fill in the blank with the sin of your choice].
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skyrider
:blink: :blink: :blink:
Post #85 and #87 -- Click Here
It seems that your opinions and comments on that thread....A lifetime of Christian service.....were in question since you never went Corps.
Obviously, this background knowledge was quite revealing in light of your adamant statements.
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WhiteDove
They must have missed that when I got the nametag I guess ,I guess when I got a yearly appraisal & assignment as well , and I suppose no one informed Craig when he sent that demand letter and dropped from active status letter as well.
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waysider
Man, oh man.
What the heck is so darned hard to understand about this junk?
They were never interested in "training" people to go forth as mighty leaders.
Every person who enrolled represented a potential source of income, whether it be from sponsorship, ABS, free labor or a "generous" donation to the "let's buy DOCTOR an Indian Motorcycle, 'cause it'll bless his heart" fund.
What's more, it was set up like a multi level marketing (MLM) organization.
(I bring Joe in, Joe brings Bob in, Bob brings Oscar in and on and on and on.)
They wanted people to fizzle out.
Sort of a self pruning effect.
Make way for the new blood who can still bring in a bunch of new prospects who in turn will bring in more new prospects.
(And all the time bringing in a new source of cash flow)
Kinda like the soap selling guys.
Bring in all your friends and family and maybe some outsiders.
But when you've reached the saturation level, who really needs you?
Romanticize all you want if it makes you feel less foolish, but that's the big picture that comes into focus if you stand far enough away to see it.
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skyrider
WhiteDove.......(sigh) I'll try to explain this to you one more time.
The corps program.....like so many things in twi.....has EVOLVED THROUGH MANY STAGES since its inception. Seems that wierwille referred to it being like "a school of tyrannus".......or like a "marine-style discipline training"......where equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise (from corps poem) would go forth to serve, to work.
And, as you pointed out from one of the corps brochures......"Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern, interest and need. Where they serve depends upon their desire, ability and the needs of the ministry."
Yes......They (corps grads) serve depending on their desire......and their ability......and the needs of the ministry.
Advanced class grads from all walks of life were encouraged to grow spiritually and go forth as leaders. From about 1977-1982.......after PFAL '77 remember?......lots of ministry exposure and promo for advanced class grads to learn and grow via the corps program.
Some corps......were nurses, medical personnel (even lcm's medical doctor was corps alumni)
Some corps......were military men (for a period of time, military outreach was a segment of the trunk office at hq)
Some corps......were businessmen and women, writers, musicians, pro athletes, etc.
Some corps......were pilots, (went in corps and then BACK to hq to pilot the planes)
Some corps......were hq staff secretaries, department heads, way builders.
Some corps......went on to get their doctorates.
Heck, martindale made it MANDATORY for all way productions to go into the corps program BEFORE performing on stage at ministry functions. So, people went corps.....then picked up their instrument to perform on stage.
Word in Culture was a huge deal at this time.
All five corps objectives were general concepts.......#1 spiritually, #2 mentally, #3 physical, #4 financially and #5 go forth with christian service.
Guess it depends on how one perceived that "going forth in christian service" to mean......because there were examples and lifestyles from "soup to nuts."
:blink: :blink: ........YOU DIDN'T OBJECT to those posts stating that you were NON-CORPS two years ago. <_<
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WhiteDove
Really cause I'm thinkin' there sure are a lot of folks including many here who put in 20 - 25 years or more and about three times as many elsewhere still working that seemed to miss that message.......... so much for the fizzle factor.
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waysider
The same could be said for the "soap" schemes.
Forget the numbers and look at the percentages.
Tens of thousands have poured money and/or labor into this scheme over the years.
Maybe up to 100,000 people, I don't really know.
And then you contrast that to the ones who hung in there through the years?
The percentage has to be pitifully low.
And don't forget, the ones who DID hang in there, continued to be a source of revenue and provided recruitment efforts while they stayed.
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WhiteDove
So why did they drop them as Doojable said when they refsed an assignment, if they were happy with them being a nurse? , it appears they were not pleased, looks to me like they expected one to serve as they committed to for a lifetime. It doesn't look like they were happy as clams to have trained them only to have them not do what they were trained for......
Actually I believe I did and I have discussed this with Pawtucket as well back then.
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skyrider
Maybe........the oppressors didn't think the corps were "jumping" high enough???
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WhiteDove
Oh but they would not have to jump now would they, you see they were all done ,you know doin their own thing ....... Nope no reason to check in all done after four years...So the question remains why did you check in ? maybe because you knew that you were expected to be serving? :blink:
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TheHighWay
Okay, I'm done arguing in circles. Some folks simply don't want to understand. Let it be.
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Ham
I wonder.. why else would they change the rules, requirements, expectatations on the fly.. unless they KNEW people wouldn't sign if they knew what they REALLY were gonna do?
it would be like taking the big executive position.. sign a contract written in sand, and finding yourself cleaning parking lots and hosing out rather nasty dumpsters..
I know corps that experienced something like this.
but it didn't happen overnight. It was one little "insignificant" change in the contract at a time..
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jen-o
wow... people sure have "thin skins" round this place...
does this "i'm gonna report you" stuff happen often in here??
especially since the imagined "offenses" seem so trivial to me...
i mean, one person mentioned the word "family" and you would have thought they cussed up a storm...
and the other person had perceived misinformation... so what?... it's not enough to clear up the misinformation... people gotta go around "reporting" this minutia...
i feel sorry for the moderators who have to listen to these petty complaints...
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cman
Intimidation tactics because that's all they have.
Anyways...back to the subject-
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jen-o
p.s. i'm not sure i understand what the conversation on this thread is all about...
as far as i can tell:
in reference to a "lifetime" of committment and service to twi, some folks think it was a "bait and switch" and some folks think that one should have known from the moment they entered the corps that it meant a lifetime of committment to "the way" organization....
do i understand this correctly?
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WhiteDove
If it was perceived which it was not....... then again on the other side of the fence we have to hear their complaints and face their reports of personel attacks when we call someone a liar, I don't know ,when you consistently repeat the same thing and the information is not true my grandma always said that was the word for it , if one is lying it would seem ok to call them one, they earned the name , apparently the rules don't work the same both ways...... I'm just thinkin that they should If one is being misrepresented then one should have recourse the same as everyone else. I don't see that as thin skinned, just evening the playing field.
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doojable
WD - My point was that the written materials implied that there was the possibility that an assignment could be declined with no consequences.
In reality declining an assignment got you on a list sent out to all corps saying that you were no longer "Active Corps."
There was a lot of double-speak, a lot of misrepresentation, a lot of lies and ridicule.
That being said, I kept my service as Corps and my love and service to God very separate. In my mind the Corps nametag was only worth keeping if it helped me to serve God.
It took me longer than I care to admit that I needed to drop the Corps thing.
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WhiteDove
So the question still remains If you thought you were done ,finished after your four years of training, no obligation to lead in the way, exactly why did one feel the need to submit to yearly appraisals? Cause ya know when I was done with grade school after my training I don't remember going back each year for a teacher conference, generally because I did not feel I needed to since I was done. When I graduated from high school I did not return for a grade card either each year . Why you ask? cause I was done, program over. Now if one maintains that they were done upon graduation no more requirement to serve, doin' your own thing, fulfilled your obligation, exactly just why did everyone return for an assignment ,an evaluation, a work assignment at Corps week for something that was done ?
Seems like there would be no point if one had finished. Now on the other hand when I was trained for my job I did return each year because I understood I was not done ,that is what I agreed to be trained for and as such I had a yearly appraisal. When I changed jobs I no longer went back for an appraisal. That seems the way it works for most people if your done you need not return if your not you do. So if you perceived you were done, just exactly why did you feel obligated to answer to something that you had finished? The only logical reason is that one felt that they had some requirement to do ,an obligation to fulfill, apparently contrary to what they would like to argue years later, they apparently felt a need to because they were not done ,and they knew it . I've heard many complain about having to work at Corps week year after year so just why did you do that if you were done, wouldn't one just say I'm done I'm not showing up I don't have to? That’s what I'd do if my old job called and assigned a schedule to me. Yet it seems again people continued to do so. The facts and actions despite the argument years later, don't line up. The only logical reason for continuing to submit to such actions is that someone felt it was a requirement to do so due to a commitment. Apparently they knew they were not done......
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WhiteDove
I understand and agree , I also understand that if the program was for four years and you were done, no implication that you had any further commitment to lead for them in any capacity then there would be no need to address any assignment issues period, either declining or accepting cause you were done. No obligation ,no assignment issues either way to address. Apparently they felt there were going to be ongoing assignments of some sort for their leaders they had trained and that they needed to clarify how that would work. despite the fact as you correctly pointed out what was said was not what was done.) Again If one believed they had no further responsibility to the program they would have just said Hey I'm done, I did not sign on for this and yet year after year they did not do so ,they did that which apparently hearing now was something they did not want to do. It seems logical that they accepted the fact that some form of continued leadership role and evaluation was warranted by their continued actions.
My experience is that people don't do things they hate doing year after year after year when they aren't required to and they know and agree that they are not. Generally they do it when they feel they are supposed to by some previous understanding.
It's easy to argue that what was said was not what they understood years later, but it becomes tough to take seriously when their actions prove otherwise. For years despite apparently not liking what they continued to do, they did it anyway, presumably when they knew or felt that they had no obligation to do so. That leaves little weasle room for the argument. Of course that would mean they would now have to admit that they did understand that there was some implication that they would have further commitments to serve , and that the record shows by their actions that they continued to accept this process despite not liking it because they did in fact understand that it was required of them to stay in the program. .
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