As hundreds went into the corps training (around 1976).......it was publically promoted as "A Lifetime of Christian Service" and that many corps grads would take this learning into businesses, into word in culture.
What I wonder with v2p2's "corpse, the next generation".. is if the "lucky" few graduate into a lifetime, not of christian service, but christian servitude.
No real job skills except for perhaps they know how to go door to door witnessing.. run classes, meetings of sorts..
probably know how to clear land of tree roots and such with little more than pickaxes..
forced to live on the alms of others..
Where do they plan on taking this "learning".. into business, into culture?
What I wonder with v2p2's "corpse, the next generation".. is if the "lucky" few graduate into a lifetime, not of christian service, but christian servitude.
No real job skills except for perhaps they know how to go door to door witnessing.. run classes, meetings of sorts..
probably know how to clear land of tree roots and such with little more than pickaxes..
forced to live on the alms of others..
Where do they plan on taking this "learning".. into business, into culture?
Ham.......yeah, and even aspiring towards "christian servitude" might spiral downward from there.
Having lived and observed the twi "christian service" aspect for THREE DECADES........where is the "christian service" in leading others to a wierwille-idolized mindset? a class-oriented-we-got-the-answers elitist attitude? a self-serving, pocket-lining, community-isolated outfit? an anti-family, spoon-whacking village to raise a child?
And, not only "no real job skills"..........BUT widening the chasm OF TIME where these young-uns could tap into scholarship money or apprenticeship programs or military experience TO FURTHER THEIR OWN LIVES.
I am an outspoken critic of TWI'S CORPS INDOCTRINATION.........but this trip into Mississippi looks creepier.
Why don't they............spend a month loading trucks for a food center to feed the homeless, then spend a month working at a domestic abuse center, then spend a month witnessing, then spend a month helping the elderly........ rather than chopping and stacking wood..??????????
Ham.......yeah, and even aspiring towards "christian servitude" might spiral downward from there.
Having lived and observed the twi "christian service" aspect for THREE DECADES........where is the "christian service" in leading others to a wierwille-idolized mindset? a class-oriented-we-got-the-answers elitist attitude? a self-serving, pocket-lining, community-isolated outfit? an anti-family, spoon-whacking village to raise a child?
And, not only "no real job skills"..........BUT widening the chasm OF TIME where these young-uns could tap into scholarship money or apprenticeship programs or military experience TO FURTHER THEIR OWN LIVES.
I am an outspoken critic of TWI'S CORPS INDOCTRINATION.........but this trip into Mississippi looks creepier.
Why don't they............spend a month loading trucks for a food center to feed the homeless, then spend a month working at a domestic abuse center, then spend a month witnessing, then spend a month helping the elderly........ rather than chopping and stacking wood..??????????
Because if it drags on into winter, they want to keep toasty warm by the fireplace and roast their chestnuts!
Jack Frost nipping at your nose, yuletide carols sung..... dang I forgot the words.....ahhh, well
The Corps Vet concept was aligned with the WOW Vet concept........when you graduated from the program, YOU WERE DONE.......i.e. "a veteran."
I don't believe that to be true , you were not done , just starting more like it, you were done with the in residence training, as you mentioned It was a Lifetime of Christian Service. The key word there being lifetime. If you had been done you would not have needed a Corps evaluation every year , had you been done you would not have had a Corps assignment either. Nor would your presence be required at Corps advances, or Corps week. It should have been quite clear that one was far from done. Most people got that. some did not I guess.
Gee...........some of us could easily make a case saying that TWI QUIT ON THE WORD.........NOT US..!!!
As hundreds went into the corps training (around 1976).......it was publically promoted as "A Lifetime of Christian Service" and that many corps grads would take this learning into businesses, into word in culture. From basically 1977-1982, wierwille and company did NOT label these military/business corps grads as "quitters."
I was just getting into the ministry in 1982, and I went into the college program in 1984. I do vaguely remember hearing murmurings of corps folks at Emporia who were upset because they had joined up thinking they would take their training into their own career path and "move it out in the world" -- that the way corps was teaching them how to be twig coordinators -- and were now being told "a lifetime of service" meant they had signed their life over to twi's directives, and they were being trained on the path of ministers (as if you could train a gift ministry). And there was a lot of controversy about whether going into the way corps was a "calling of God" or not... seems like I remember them saying that the folks who left when the direction changed were simply not "called" and there was a very small window of opportunity where it was okay if they walked away from the corps training. Not long after that, 'leaving' meant you were turning your back on God.
Does anyone remember the details of this transition? --- when it started happening, why it started happening, anything?
Now that I think about it, it is remarkably similar to how they handled the whole financial purging situation when they supposedly stepped up the commitment level of the corps again in the 90s, to put everyone on the ministry payroll full-time. They let a lot of corps "choose" to drop. (yeah, yeah, I know that it was because they bit off more than they could chew and were trying to cover it up) But, their method of giving folks that small window of time to "walk away" from their corps status seems the same.
-- of course, in this case it was almost the reverse: they told folks it was a calling and a lifetime of service, then told them oops, not really, we are going to override God on this one... it was really hard on a lot of folks to sort it all out and not end up condemning themselves for not being good enough, not pushing hard enough, etc. because in their mind they had made an unbreakable vow of service!@!!
I was just getting into the ministry in 1982, and I went into the college program in 1984. I do vaguely remember hearing murmurings of corps folks at Emporia who were upset because they had joined up thinking they would take their training into their own career path and "move it out in the world" -- that the way corps was teaching them how to be twig coordinators -- and were now being told "a lifetime of service" meant they had signed their life over to twi's directives, and they were being trained on the path of ministers (as if you could train a gift ministry). And there was a lot of controversy about whether going into the way corps was a "calling of God" or not... seems like I remember them saying that the folks who left when the direction changed were simply not "called" and there was a very small window of opportunity where it was okay if they walked away from the corps training. Not long after that, 'leaving' meant you were turning your back on God.
Does anyone remember the details of this transition? --- when it started happening, why it started happening, anything?
Highway........here are a few more things.
1) Numbers for the 6th corps were around 330 or thereabouts (?).........
2) By 1977-78......trustees and corps director promoted the corps program as an advanced training for twig coordinators AND for those who wanted to grow strong spiritually. During this time, wierwille was challenging some in the 7th corps to be the FIRST PERSON TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI. While at a branch meeting, one 7th corps person publically announced that he was going to be *that person.*
3) Word in Culture.......was vastly moving thru twi (including the corps)........pro football athletes, bull-fighting rodeo clown (possibly a family corps enrollee?), short novel writers, cartoonists, musicians, bussinessmen, medical field personnel (going corps to be 'stronger in their field of expertise'), military folk, etc.
4) By the 9th, 10th corps.......two married couples were housed together in dorms at Emporia campus.
5) Family corps numbers were expanding as well.
6) NO WAY was twi promoting for all these corps to be region/limb/area/branch leaders........so MANY were going into the corps program, it was NOT possible for all to be assigned areas of work.
7) Don Wierwille was busy heading up Word in Business Conferences.....needed corps/business leaders to address the workshops at these conferences. The corps were 'coming of age' to lead in the business/medical/life sectors.
8) Some military corps went back to MILITARY ASSIGNMENTS.........one corps guy was appointed to the pentagon, another corps guy was assigned to the Middle East theatre.
9) At HQ........the corps were everywhere heading up departments. A few select individuals were privately counseled to go in the corps AND WOULD RETURN TO THEIR JOB AT HQ.....[now spiritually trained better].
10) Wierwille, on corps night, spent time addressing those "called to helps & governments" (organization).....and further, went on to single out several 4th corps who were ordained clergy and SERVING IN A 'HELP' CAPACITY.
11) The Way Corps Vet t-shirt......promoted and sold at the bookstore to have corps grads front this corps experience to advanced class grads.
12) A monthly Corps Household Newsletter was like 6-8 pages of correspondence......one section documented accomplishments of corps grad achievements in education/medical/military/ awards. When Rev. L0nnel J0hnsxn went on to get his doctorate........it was noted and applauded.
13) Corps evaluations picked up pace around 1984......and corps phone hookups later.
14) IIRC......by about the 15th corps, the pendulum had swung the other way and martindale was significantly aware how their "policies/control" needed to tighten up to the reins...........of course, the corps vet t-shirt concept disappeared.
15) TWI WAS AND IS A MOVING TARGET........ALWAYS DARTING HITHER AND YON.......TRYING TO DESCRIBE ITS EVOLUTIONS IS LIKE TRYING TO HOLD LIQUID MERCURY.
Now that I think about it, it is remarkably similar to how they handled the whole financial purging situation when they supposedly stepped up the commitment level of the corps again in the 90s, to put everyone on the ministry payroll full-time. They let a lot of corps "choose" to drop. (yeah, yeah, I know that it was because they bit off more than they could chew and were trying to cover it up) But, their method of giving folks that small window of time to "walk away" from their corps status seems the same.
-- of course, in this case it was almost the reverse: they told folks it was a calling and a lifetime of service, then told them oops, not really, we are going to override God on this one... it was really hard on a lot of folks to sort it all out and not end up condemning themselves for not being good enough, not pushing hard enough, etc. because in their mind they had made an unbreakable vow of service!@!!
You know I don't recall that it was ever a requirement until the 90s that one had to have no debt in life to remain in the Corps. While in residence that was the case ,common sense, how could one pay bills with no money. While I think not having a lot of debt hanging over ones head can be very beneficial and freeing, the fact remains it was not part of the program and I would have felt no need to abide by it. Now ,they can drop you from the recognized program , and they did many , but one does not necessarily need to accept their verdict either on the matter. If it is/was a calling of God then logically he can do the dropping if He see's fit. Personally I do believe it was a call of God, I also think many did not take it that way, for some it was just the next thing to do, the next step on the ladder. When the ladder broke they went by the wayside. Hint ....Ladders don't make good foundations...... I still see those many who were called serving ,despite what The Way thinks. There is plenty of room for the program to work.
I don't believe that to be true , you were not done , just starting more like it, you were done with the in residence training, as you mentioned It was a Lifetime of Christian Service. The key word there being lifetime. If you had been done you would not have needed a Corps evaluation every year , had you been done you would not have had a Corps assignment either. Nor would your presence be required at Corps advances, or Corps week. It should have been quite clear that one was far from done. Most people got that. some did not I guess.
This subject has come up before and it always fires me up...
When I signed up for the 10th corps...the papers I signed said it was a 4 year training program with an OPTION to take assignments if you wanted to...I am absolutely certain of this...Rumrunner can back me up on this.
A few months into the in residence training at Emporia, Lcm announced to us that the corps was a lifetime committment and not a 4 year committment...and he went on to say that if we didn't understand that, we didn't "get it" yet. I have no recollection of anybody, other than myself, objecting to this...I was furious! To me, it was a classic "bait and switch" and I let a few people know about it...next thing I know, I was reassigned to Rome City and the entire wooden spoon culture of Bob Moneyhands...
In my opinion, the "Lifetime of Christian service" was always a description of how a person lived after they chose their own path...it was never a lifetime committment to follow orders from any particular man or organization. They baited you in with the idea that you were doing a 4 year program and after they put the hooks in you, they switched it for a lifetime of servitude to them. If you didn't buy into that concept, you were told that you were "spiritually immature" or had no "real committment"...
Maybe that's why it was so easy for me to walk away from twi...I never took that final step of committing my life to them...I always kept twi and God seperate.
You guys PAID (or someone for you) for the "training" true?
reminds me of the centurion guy.. "with lotsa simoleons I purchased this FREEDOM"
How warped can it get. a person scrapes up enough cash, invests four years of their time, money, time off from developing real careers, not for freedom, but servitude?
When I signed up in the four year university here..
I didn't sign on for a lifetime of university "service".
I don't get annual evaluations. I do get semi-annual assessments though (grades), and those will end when I leave the establishment, in good standing or not.
The only real "standard" I've heard "harped on" is HONESTY. Academic honesty.. don't cheat, don't plagiarize. That's the only REAL one way ticket out of the establishment. The only other reason they MIGHT "send them home" is if the person PERSISTS in substance abuse problems, ON CAMPUS.
In both cases, one has an appeal process they may wish to go through.
When I finally leave the place in good standing (graduate) I don't anticipate getting yearly assignments or evaluations from the board of the college.. unless I just happen to be EMPLOYED there..and, the percentage of the graduating class "moving up" to a position at the university is practically zero. They actually WANT people to go. Just go away..
Come back with a doctorate in math or chemistry or something someday if you'd like.
The staff might actually like one's charming personality.. but they really DON'T want people who graduated with a degree in chemistry, math, physics, education- to hang around to kiss their rears, chop firewood, clean windows, sweep floors.. herd their farm animals, fix their rusty trucks, clear their land of trees and old stumps and rocks, listen to tapes of old lectures, clean oil spill marks in the parking lot on the way to the "office"..
in fact, they don't want STUDENTS, even HONORS students to perform the above "service".
I have yet to hear a speech from an instructor challenging the senior class of students to be among the first for an individual to donate a million bucks to the university.
Neither do they "train" people how to run little meetings.. go "witnessing" at large for the university..
or run classes, keep track of who's returning fifteen percent of their income to the university, who's really winning new students for the organization.
No weekly or even daily meetings to "follow up" on those they've "witnessed to"..
twi, along with it's clones, are like a "university" on the planet Bizarro..
In my opinion, the "Lifetime of Christian service" was always a description of how a person lived after they chose their own path...it was never a lifetime committment to follow orders from any particular man or organization. They baited you in with the idea that you were doing a 4 year program and after they put the hooks in you, they switched it for a lifetime of servitude to them. If you didn't buy into that concept, you were told that you were "spiritually immature" or had no "real committment"...
But you still had a choice to leave if you wanted. You obviously didn't see the corps as some others did... then at that point one still could have left the program and been Joe Believer at twig. Or, just go through the program if you still loved the ministry and decide later what you wanted to do with your life. Nobody held a gun to your head. If you decided to leave right then, it would have taken some brutal honesty to go to Craig and say "you know, when I signed up there was no intention to work for the ministry for the rest of my life, my intention was [fill in the blank]. But now you're telling me something different."
I agree with the description of the Lifetime of Christian Service being how one lives and in what job one desires. Some folks saw it that way, some didn't. But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.
I have NEVER seen an instructor scream at a student. Not once.
You'd think if anyone was "qualified" to do so, it would be someone with real credentials..
over three years into the curriculum, I don't see the bait and switch.. "now, students.. it's no longer a four year commitment.. you've REALLY signed on to a lifetime of university service.."
what would I do? Well, probably what most people would: presuming there were real benefits to finishing the last semester, just keep quiet and go through it, and get the hell out as soon as I could..
Actually, an HONEST, ACCREDITED college can't indiscriminately change the curriculum I signed on for.
They can't add half a dozen classes they think I might need as a requirement for the degree along the way..
A professor might SUGGEST them.. I've heard one say "ya know, you might be a little more employable if you took a few computer classes.."
Neither can an HONEST, ACCREDITED place just say, "come on in, we'll figure out the curriculum as we go along.."
Corpes was to learn how to best serve God, how to be the best tc that I could be. I remember the promo I went to at roa. Craig arrogantly stated that he didn`t even hang out or talk to non corpes because of their lack of spirituality.
I remember applying for a 4 year program that would help me be my very best for God. It was only when I tried to leave that I found out that I had made an unbreakable vow to God :(
12) A monthly Corps Household Newsletter was like 6-8 pages of correspondence......one section documented accomplishments of corps grad achievements in education/medical/military/ awards. When Rev. L0nnel J0hnsxn went on to get his doctorate........it was noted and applauded.
13) Corps evaluations picked up pace around 1984......and corps phone hookups later.
14) IIRC......by about the 15th corps, the pendulum had swung the other way and martindale was significantly aware how their "policies/control" needed to tighten up to the reins...........of course, the corps vet t-shirt concept disappeared.
Okay, this all fits exactly with my remembered time-frames. I went to a lot of conferences and ROAs my first couple of years in twi and remember there being a huge focus on "earthly achievements" supposedly accomplished or improved-upon by applying twi's principles for living God's Word. And then I was in-rez at Emporia with the 15th and 13th corps, which was when I started hearing the grumblings and the debate about being "called"
And now that I've been thinking about this all morning, I distinctly remember Martindale telling our corps (basically the 16th-20th corps) that VP's original concept for the way corps was a sold-out-lifetime-commitment, which is how the first few corps were run, but that he'd had to water that down because he (the Vicster) spiritually saw that the caliber of folks coming into the corps previously were not going to raise themselves up to the level of gift ministers, (nevermind how many of them DID get ordained and run states and regions for twi) and so he had watered down his original goals temporarily until (god) told him to step it back up again... Craig used this as his justification for the commitment levels getting steeper and steeper all throughout the 1990s. (get out of debt, quit your job, lose the pets, don't have kids, attend all meetings, don't question anything...)
Geez, it all makes sense now... they took advantage of the increasing numbers of potential tuition fees, errrr... way corps, by making the program enticing to the most people. Then, when they saw they couldn't control things that way, they started paring it down and used the increased expectations of commitment to winnow out anyone who wouldn't back them up 100%.
Smooth... very smooth. (disgusting, dispicable, deceitful, and dastardly) But smooth.
By the way, the phone hookups started in 1989 when Craig started teaching Corps Night instead of Walter Cummins. He taught the book of Acts, which he had just been teaching classes on, and he INVITED corps on the field to dial in to be a part of the teachings. At the end of the year he acknowledged all the groups who had dialed in for every corps night that year (stupidly excluding some who hadn't dialed in to all of them because they came in person to some of them!!) And since he had gotten into the habit of making announcements to the folks on the phone hookups at the beginning of each meeting, he decided to make it mandatory for all corps on the field to dial in, either singly or in groups, each week. It didn't take too many years for the meeting announcements to become the bulk of the meeting as Craig would find fault with someone each week and tear them to bits in front of the entire corps body. Sometimes he would even crack open the Bible and teach a few verses.
I remember applying for a 4 year program that would help me be my very best for God. It was only when I tried to leave that I found out that I had made an unbreakable vow to God :(
The university doesn't keep a list either. You know, active graduates and students, inactive graduates and students, dropped from active students roster, "disgruntled" students and graduates to abandon and avoid..
They keep just enough records that they may supply a transcript if requested.
I never heard any professor threaten disaster or dire consequences if one chooses to leave..
I didn't have to write a "birth to da college" paper, either, for some slimebucket to look over and see if *it* could gain sexual favors with me..
generally speaking, the staff isn't paid on "need basis". Don't have to submit a budget to their superiors, sign in and out on potty breaks..
one thing I can say: twi and the clones make the "world" look REALLY GOOD..
give me debils behind any given tree anytime.
I have NEVER seen a professor sign an oath of eternal loyalty to the president of the university, either.
A contract perhaps, detailing length of employment and agreed on compensation and benefits.
But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.
As you have so often reminded me oldies...please speak for yourself and the unique circumstances of your family.
That is not an accurate portrayal of what the many of the rest of us endured.
Rascal, I disagree. My opinion is that we all, all of us had free will to choose. And I have reported your post to the moderators for mentioning my "family", again. You've been asked many times not to do it. Forum rules ask us not to get personal, and you've gotten personal again. That's all I'm gonna say, I hope the moderators take some action.
But you still had a choice to leave if you wanted. You obviously didn't see the corps as some others did... then at that point one still could have left the program and been Joe Believer at twig. Or, just go through the program if you still loved the ministry and decide later what you wanted to do with your life. Nobody held a gun to your head. If you decided to leave right then, it would have taken some brutal honesty to go to Craig and say "you know, when I signed up there was no intention to work for the ministry for the rest of my life, my intention was [fill in the blank]. But now you're telling me something different."
I agree with the description of the Lifetime of Christian Service being how one lives and in what job one desires. Some folks saw it that way, some didn't. But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.
The question that began gnawing at me at that time was...if they are dishonest about this, what else are they dishonest with?
...The next event that demonstrated their dishonesty was when they sent us out lightbearers...we were told that anyone who didn't get a class together would be dismissed from the corps...when I returned without getting a class together, I began to pack and make preparations to leave...but of course, they lied again. Seeing that about 90% of the groups didn't get a class together, they backed off of their word...in other words, they lied...and of course I was quite aware that I was being held accountable for "causing the increase", which was unbiblical.
My disillusionment with twi evolved over time as I experienced more and more dishonesty, unethical behavior and unbiblical policies...and you're right oldies...nobody held a gun to my head and when I was ready to leave...I did. :)
...and you ARE free to disagree Oldies...I am just pointing out, as you so often have to me, that YOU certainly are not able to speak with authority for all of us, that many of us certainly did not experience your idyllic conditions in twi. That many of us found out only after the fact, when we needed to leave.... that we had made an irrevocable, unbreakable vow to God.
My experience is in complete contradiction to your statement.
And finally....I have NOT named any names friend. You yourself told us that you had family in twi, and that your experiences were different...ok?
And finally....I have NOT named any names friend. You yourself told us that you had family in twi, and that your experiences were different...ok?
No , not ok. I never said or suggested i received preferential treatment or enjoyed any more idyllic conditions than anyone else. You have falsely surmised that. No proof, just assumption. I've previously asked you to provide proof of your assumption, but you have none. Even previously asked you to take this to PM so we can discuss this privately. But no, you continue to press and use the fact that one of my family members worked on staff as reason why I supposedly received some sort of privileged treatment. It's not true, and you have REPEATEDLY been asked not to mention anything about my family. You can keep trying, but I think its time you stop already. The moderators have been notified and I hope they take action.
TheHighway,
I just took almost two weeks off from posting and Rascal starts right in with getting personal. Why can't people just be able to give their opinions without all this other nonsense? This is not my fault.
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Ham
What I wonder with v2p2's "corpse, the next generation".. is if the "lucky" few graduate into a lifetime, not of christian service, but christian servitude.
No real job skills except for perhaps they know how to go door to door witnessing.. run classes, meetings of sorts..
probably know how to clear land of tree roots and such with little more than pickaxes..
forced to live on the alms of others..
Where do they plan on taking this "learning".. into business, into culture?
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skyrider
Ham.......yeah, and even aspiring towards "christian servitude" might spiral downward from there.
Having lived and observed the twi "christian service" aspect for THREE DECADES........where is the "christian service" in leading others to a wierwille-idolized mindset? a class-oriented-we-got-the-answers elitist attitude? a self-serving, pocket-lining, community-isolated outfit? an anti-family, spoon-whacking village to raise a child?
And, not only "no real job skills"..........BUT widening the chasm OF TIME where these young-uns could tap into scholarship money or apprenticeship programs or military experience TO FURTHER THEIR OWN LIVES.
I am an outspoken critic of TWI'S CORPS INDOCTRINATION.........but this trip into Mississippi looks creepier.
Why don't they............spend a month loading trucks for a food center to feed the homeless, then spend a month working at a domestic abuse center, then spend a month witnessing, then spend a month helping the elderly........ rather than chopping and stacking wood..??????????
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brideofjc
Because if it drags on into winter, they want to keep toasty warm by the fireplace and roast their chestnuts!
Jack Frost nipping at your nose, yuletide carols sung..... dang I forgot the words.....ahhh, well
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WhiteDove
I think the facts support a strong case .......
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simonzelotes
I no longer have my Corps Vet t-shirt but I do have a Camaro t-shirt...
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TheHighWay
I was just getting into the ministry in 1982, and I went into the college program in 1984. I do vaguely remember hearing murmurings of corps folks at Emporia who were upset because they had joined up thinking they would take their training into their own career path and "move it out in the world" -- that the way corps was teaching them how to be twig coordinators -- and were now being told "a lifetime of service" meant they had signed their life over to twi's directives, and they were being trained on the path of ministers (as if you could train a gift ministry). And there was a lot of controversy about whether going into the way corps was a "calling of God" or not... seems like I remember them saying that the folks who left when the direction changed were simply not "called" and there was a very small window of opportunity where it was okay if they walked away from the corps training. Not long after that, 'leaving' meant you were turning your back on God.
Does anyone remember the details of this transition? --- when it started happening, why it started happening, anything?
Now that I think about it, it is remarkably similar to how they handled the whole financial purging situation when they supposedly stepped up the commitment level of the corps again in the 90s, to put everyone on the ministry payroll full-time. They let a lot of corps "choose" to drop. (yeah, yeah, I know that it was because they bit off more than they could chew and were trying to cover it up) But, their method of giving folks that small window of time to "walk away" from their corps status seems the same.
-- of course, in this case it was almost the reverse: they told folks it was a calling and a lifetime of service, then told them oops, not really, we are going to override God on this one... it was really hard on a lot of folks to sort it all out and not end up condemning themselves for not being good enough, not pushing hard enough, etc. because in their mind they had made an unbreakable vow of service!@!!
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skyrider
Highway........here are a few more things.
1) Numbers for the 6th corps were around 330 or thereabouts (?).........
2) By 1977-78......trustees and corps director promoted the corps program as an advanced training for twig coordinators AND for those who wanted to grow strong spiritually. During this time, wierwille was challenging some in the 7th corps to be the FIRST PERSON TO DONATE ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO TWI. While at a branch meeting, one 7th corps person publically announced that he was going to be *that person.*
3) Word in Culture.......was vastly moving thru twi (including the corps)........pro football athletes, bull-fighting rodeo clown (possibly a family corps enrollee?), short novel writers, cartoonists, musicians, bussinessmen, medical field personnel (going corps to be 'stronger in their field of expertise'), military folk, etc.
4) By the 9th, 10th corps.......two married couples were housed together in dorms at Emporia campus.
5) Family corps numbers were expanding as well.
6) NO WAY was twi promoting for all these corps to be region/limb/area/branch leaders........so MANY were going into the corps program, it was NOT possible for all to be assigned areas of work.
7) Don Wierwille was busy heading up Word in Business Conferences.....needed corps/business leaders to address the workshops at these conferences. The corps were 'coming of age' to lead in the business/medical/life sectors.
8) Some military corps went back to MILITARY ASSIGNMENTS.........one corps guy was appointed to the pentagon, another corps guy was assigned to the Middle East theatre.
9) At HQ........the corps were everywhere heading up departments. A few select individuals were privately counseled to go in the corps AND WOULD RETURN TO THEIR JOB AT HQ.....[now spiritually trained better].
10) Wierwille, on corps night, spent time addressing those "called to helps & governments" (organization).....and further, went on to single out several 4th corps who were ordained clergy and SERVING IN A 'HELP' CAPACITY.
11) The Way Corps Vet t-shirt......promoted and sold at the bookstore to have corps grads front this corps experience to advanced class grads.
12) A monthly Corps Household Newsletter was like 6-8 pages of correspondence......one section documented accomplishments of corps grad achievements in education/medical/military/ awards. When Rev. L0nnel J0hnsxn went on to get his doctorate........it was noted and applauded.
13) Corps evaluations picked up pace around 1984......and corps phone hookups later.
14) IIRC......by about the 15th corps, the pendulum had swung the other way and martindale was significantly aware how their "policies/control" needed to tighten up to the reins...........of course, the corps vet t-shirt concept disappeared.
15) TWI WAS AND IS A MOVING TARGET........ALWAYS DARTING HITHER AND YON.......TRYING TO DESCRIBE ITS EVOLUTIONS IS LIKE TRYING TO HOLD LIQUID MERCURY.
<_<
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WhiteDove
You know I don't recall that it was ever a requirement until the 90s that one had to have no debt in life to remain in the Corps. While in residence that was the case ,common sense, how could one pay bills with no money. While I think not having a lot of debt hanging over ones head can be very beneficial and freeing, the fact remains it was not part of the program and I would have felt no need to abide by it. Now ,they can drop you from the recognized program , and they did many , but one does not necessarily need to accept their verdict either on the matter. If it is/was a calling of God then logically he can do the dropping if He see's fit. Personally I do believe it was a call of God, I also think many did not take it that way, for some it was just the next thing to do, the next step on the ladder. When the ladder broke they went by the wayside. Hint ....Ladders don't make good foundations...... I still see those many who were called serving ,despite what The Way thinks. There is plenty of room for the program to work.
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GrouchoMarxJr
This subject has come up before and it always fires me up...
When I signed up for the 10th corps...the papers I signed said it was a 4 year training program with an OPTION to take assignments if you wanted to...I am absolutely certain of this...Rumrunner can back me up on this.
A few months into the in residence training at Emporia, Lcm announced to us that the corps was a lifetime committment and not a 4 year committment...and he went on to say that if we didn't understand that, we didn't "get it" yet. I have no recollection of anybody, other than myself, objecting to this...I was furious! To me, it was a classic "bait and switch" and I let a few people know about it...next thing I know, I was reassigned to Rome City and the entire wooden spoon culture of Bob Moneyhands...
In my opinion, the "Lifetime of Christian service" was always a description of how a person lived after they chose their own path...it was never a lifetime committment to follow orders from any particular man or organization. They baited you in with the idea that you were doing a 4 year program and after they put the hooks in you, they switched it for a lifetime of servitude to them. If you didn't buy into that concept, you were told that you were "spiritually immature" or had no "real committment"...
Maybe that's why it was so easy for me to walk away from twi...I never took that final step of committing my life to them...I always kept twi and God seperate.
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Ham
You guys PAID (or someone for you) for the "training" true?
reminds me of the centurion guy.. "with lotsa simoleons I purchased this FREEDOM"
How warped can it get. a person scrapes up enough cash, invests four years of their time, money, time off from developing real careers, not for freedom, but servitude?
When I signed up in the four year university here..
I didn't sign on for a lifetime of university "service".
I don't get annual evaluations. I do get semi-annual assessments though (grades), and those will end when I leave the establishment, in good standing or not.
The only real "standard" I've heard "harped on" is HONESTY. Academic honesty.. don't cheat, don't plagiarize. That's the only REAL one way ticket out of the establishment. The only other reason they MIGHT "send them home" is if the person PERSISTS in substance abuse problems, ON CAMPUS.
In both cases, one has an appeal process they may wish to go through.
When I finally leave the place in good standing (graduate) I don't anticipate getting yearly assignments or evaluations from the board of the college.. unless I just happen to be EMPLOYED there..and, the percentage of the graduating class "moving up" to a position at the university is practically zero. They actually WANT people to go. Just go away..
Come back with a doctorate in math or chemistry or something someday if you'd like.
The staff might actually like one's charming personality.. but they really DON'T want people who graduated with a degree in chemistry, math, physics, education- to hang around to kiss their rears, chop firewood, clean windows, sweep floors.. herd their farm animals, fix their rusty trucks, clear their land of trees and old stumps and rocks, listen to tapes of old lectures, clean oil spill marks in the parking lot on the way to the "office"..
in fact, they don't want STUDENTS, even HONORS students to perform the above "service".
I have yet to hear a speech from an instructor challenging the senior class of students to be among the first for an individual to donate a million bucks to the university.
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Ham
Neither do they "train" people how to run little meetings.. go "witnessing" at large for the university..
or run classes, keep track of who's returning fifteen percent of their income to the university, who's really winning new students for the organization.
No weekly or even daily meetings to "follow up" on those they've "witnessed to"..
twi, along with it's clones, are like a "university" on the planet Bizarro..
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oldiesman
But you still had a choice to leave if you wanted. You obviously didn't see the corps as some others did... then at that point one still could have left the program and been Joe Believer at twig. Or, just go through the program if you still loved the ministry and decide later what you wanted to do with your life. Nobody held a gun to your head. If you decided to leave right then, it would have taken some brutal honesty to go to Craig and say "you know, when I signed up there was no intention to work for the ministry for the rest of my life, my intention was [fill in the blank]. But now you're telling me something different."
I agree with the description of the Lifetime of Christian Service being how one lives and in what job one desires. Some folks saw it that way, some didn't. But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.
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rascal
[quote name='oldiesman' date='Mar 19 2008, 09:56 AM' post='403000
But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.
As you have so often reminded me oldies...please speak for yourself and the unique circumstances of your family.
That is not an accurate portrayal of what the many of the rest of us endured.
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Ham
I have NEVER seen an instructor scream at a student. Not once.
You'd think if anyone was "qualified" to do so, it would be someone with real credentials..
over three years into the curriculum, I don't see the bait and switch.. "now, students.. it's no longer a four year commitment.. you've REALLY signed on to a lifetime of university service.."
what would I do? Well, probably what most people would: presuming there were real benefits to finishing the last semester, just keep quiet and go through it, and get the hell out as soon as I could..
Actually, an HONEST, ACCREDITED college can't indiscriminately change the curriculum I signed on for.
They can't add half a dozen classes they think I might need as a requirement for the degree along the way..
A professor might SUGGEST them.. I've heard one say "ya know, you might be a little more employable if you took a few computer classes.."
Neither can an HONEST, ACCREDITED place just say, "come on in, we'll figure out the curriculum as we go along.."
"we'll start with stump-pulling 101"
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rascal
Groucho, you described how it was for me.
Corpes was to learn how to best serve God, how to be the best tc that I could be. I remember the promo I went to at roa. Craig arrogantly stated that he didn`t even hang out or talk to non corpes because of their lack of spirituality.
I remember applying for a 4 year program that would help me be my very best for God. It was only when I tried to leave that I found out that I had made an unbreakable vow to God :(
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TheHighWay
Okay, this all fits exactly with my remembered time-frames. I went to a lot of conferences and ROAs my first couple of years in twi and remember there being a huge focus on "earthly achievements" supposedly accomplished or improved-upon by applying twi's principles for living God's Word. And then I was in-rez at Emporia with the 15th and 13th corps, which was when I started hearing the grumblings and the debate about being "called"
And now that I've been thinking about this all morning, I distinctly remember Martindale telling our corps (basically the 16th-20th corps) that VP's original concept for the way corps was a sold-out-lifetime-commitment, which is how the first few corps were run, but that he'd had to water that down because he (the Vicster) spiritually saw that the caliber of folks coming into the corps previously were not going to raise themselves up to the level of gift ministers, (nevermind how many of them DID get ordained and run states and regions for twi) and so he had watered down his original goals temporarily until (god) told him to step it back up again... Craig used this as his justification for the commitment levels getting steeper and steeper all throughout the 1990s. (get out of debt, quit your job, lose the pets, don't have kids, attend all meetings, don't question anything...)
Geez, it all makes sense now... they took advantage of the increasing numbers of potential tuition fees, errrr... way corps, by making the program enticing to the most people. Then, when they saw they couldn't control things that way, they started paring it down and used the increased expectations of commitment to winnow out anyone who wouldn't back them up 100%.
Smooth... very smooth. (disgusting, dispicable, deceitful, and dastardly) But smooth.
By the way, the phone hookups started in 1989 when Craig started teaching Corps Night instead of Walter Cummins. He taught the book of Acts, which he had just been teaching classes on, and he INVITED corps on the field to dial in to be a part of the teachings. At the end of the year he acknowledged all the groups who had dialed in for every corps night that year (stupidly excluding some who hadn't dialed in to all of them because they came in person to some of them!!) And since he had gotten into the habit of making announcements to the folks on the phone hookups at the beginning of each meeting, he decided to make it mandatory for all corps on the field to dial in, either singly or in groups, each week. It didn't take too many years for the meeting announcements to become the bulk of the meeting as Craig would find fault with someone each week and tear them to bits in front of the entire corps body. Sometimes he would even crack open the Bible and teach a few verses.
Hear, hear
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Ham
The university doesn't keep a list either. You know, active graduates and students, inactive graduates and students, dropped from active students roster, "disgruntled" students and graduates to abandon and avoid..
They keep just enough records that they may supply a transcript if requested.
I never heard any professor threaten disaster or dire consequences if one chooses to leave..
I didn't have to write a "birth to da college" paper, either, for some slimebucket to look over and see if *it* could gain sexual favors with me..
generally speaking, the staff isn't paid on "need basis". Don't have to submit a budget to their superiors, sign in and out on potty breaks..
one thing I can say: twi and the clones make the "world" look REALLY GOOD..
give me debils behind any given tree anytime.
I have NEVER seen a professor sign an oath of eternal loyalty to the president of the university, either.
A contract perhaps, detailing length of employment and agreed on compensation and benefits.
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rhino
Is there any indication they are qualified to teach even that?
tractors are dangerous ... so is dynamite ... :o
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oldiesman
Rascal, I disagree. My opinion is that we all, all of us had free will to choose. And I have reported your post to the moderators for mentioning my "family", again. You've been asked many times not to do it. Forum rules ask us not to get personal, and you've gotten personal again. That's all I'm gonna say, I hope the moderators take some action.
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GrouchoMarxJr
The question that began gnawing at me at that time was...if they are dishonest about this, what else are they dishonest with?
...The next event that demonstrated their dishonesty was when they sent us out lightbearers...we were told that anyone who didn't get a class together would be dismissed from the corps...when I returned without getting a class together, I began to pack and make preparations to leave...but of course, they lied again. Seeing that about 90% of the groups didn't get a class together, they backed off of their word...in other words, they lied...and of course I was quite aware that I was being held accountable for "causing the increase", which was unbiblical.
My disillusionment with twi evolved over time as I experienced more and more dishonesty, unethical behavior and unbiblical policies...and you're right oldies...nobody held a gun to my head and when I was ready to leave...I did. :)
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rascal
...and you ARE free to disagree Oldies...I am just pointing out, as you so often have to me, that YOU certainly are not able to speak with authority for all of us, that many of us certainly did not experience your idyllic conditions in twi. That many of us found out only after the fact, when we needed to leave.... that we had made an irrevocable, unbreakable vow to God.
My experience is in complete contradiction to your statement.
And finally....I have NOT named any names friend. You yourself told us that you had family in twi, and that your experiences were different...ok?
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TheHighWay
(Rascal and Oldies... please... not this thread too!!)
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rascal
Sorry, I am done.
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oldiesman
No , not ok. I never said or suggested i received preferential treatment or enjoyed any more idyllic conditions than anyone else. You have falsely surmised that. No proof, just assumption. I've previously asked you to provide proof of your assumption, but you have none. Even previously asked you to take this to PM so we can discuss this privately. But no, you continue to press and use the fact that one of my family members worked on staff as reason why I supposedly received some sort of privileged treatment. It's not true, and you have REPEATEDLY been asked not to mention anything about my family. You can keep trying, but I think its time you stop already. The moderators have been notified and I hope they take action.
TheHighway,
I just took almost two weeks off from posting and Rascal starts right in with getting personal. Why can't people just be able to give their opinions without all this other nonsense? This is not my fault.
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