Highway, I remember being at some big event. I think that it had to be a roa or something years after the fact when they told the story of Howard allens healing...it was told start to finish....vp talked, but so did some others. They said at that time it was herpes simplex 3.
It was years after the fact, but they did say in a big public setting.
Highway, I remember being at some big event. I think that it had to be a roa or something years after the fact when they told the story of Howard allens healing...it was told start to finish....vp talked, but so did some others. They said at that time it was herpes simplex 3.
It was years after the fact, but they did say in a big public setting.
I had a sister-in-law that died from viral meningitis in the early 90's. I'm not sure if herpes was the virus or not, but no mention was made or intimated about anything other than the fact that this was a virus and she would either recover or not. She died within 4 days of entering the hospital.
Regarding herpes as an STD, IIRC herpes wasn't recognized as an STD until the 80's. So if HA was sick in the 70's it is highly unlikely that anyone would have made any connection at all.
My only observation was that instead of saying giving out what information they had - even after the fact, twi's information-washing machine went into a spin cycle and kept the facts to a minimum. For some reason it was always necessary to make everything a spiritual battle. I'm not sure why a miracle would be any less or more a miracle if the facts were given.
A - HA was sick and almost died from viral encephalitis.
B - HA was sick and almost died because the devil wanted him dead.
BUT - in the end - he was healed with beet juice, molasses, and prayer....
Highway, I remember being at some big event. I think that it had to be a roa or something years after the fact when they told the story of Howard allens healing...it was told start to finish....vp talked, but so did some others. They said at that time it was herpes simplex 3. It was years after the fact, but they did say in a big public setting.
I have to admit that I'm surprised by this. Maybe they felt they could talk about it since Howard actually recovered. Besides I don't think anyone ever claimed an infection was driven by spirit influence (as VP said about cancer -- oops).
Perhaps the disease that struck HA was not identified for the very reasons that are evident on this thread. People would have gossiped and giggled behind their hands and made it into something it was not.
Actually, I doubt it... first because the related virus wasn't identified as an STD back then, and second because most of us were all far too worshipful to be poking fun or giggling about the leadership over anything. :unsure: I think it was just their habit to put a mysterious, spiritual spin on absolutely everything. Whether they actually believed it was an attack of the adversary, and Howard was healed by divine intervention, or if that was just a piece of moose-turd-pie dished out for the rest of us, well, that's anyone's guess.
There's no gossiping and giggling going on over here, WG.
I am not saying or implying that you said it was an STD. You DID say it was "herpes encephalitis". I have just pointed out that there are only a couple of ways of getting that. I don't know which one it was, but I know that you don't get encephalitis from a herpes virus by getting a mosquito or tick bite. That is a different type of viral encephalitis. You seemed very certain that it was herpes encephalitis, but that it was not an STD even though there was no such diagnosis at the time. So I'm confused by what you said, your certainty that it wasn't an STD, and your fierce defense of that opinion. No one is trying to start a rumor, just getting a clearer picture. If it was an STD then it was, if it wasn't then it wasn't, but as far as I can tell, none of us can say either way for certain since there was not a diagnosis for it as an STD at the time, not even an eye witness. That doesn't mean it wasn't one or that is was one, just that it was one of the two types.
Now if you want to now say that it may not have been any type of herpes at all and that it was just some sort of encephalitis then we are looking at a larger pool of possibilities. Do I really care one way or the other? No. I was interested in whether it was a true story or not, and I guess it was, but since there is all this uproar about it definitely not being an STD when there is no way for you to know that, I got a little more interested.
My wife is in the medical field and did disease investigations for quite a while and still talks about it all the time, so much so that I could probably get a job somewhere doing it. So, it is something of interest to me. I know when it comes to these investigations it is never good to just assume. As you get more facts the reasonable possibilities for transmission of the infection become smaller and smaller. Assuming it was arboviral just because he was outside in a field, in a certain area of the country, at a certain time of year, near somewhere, where someone knew someone else who had something similar 20 years earlier isn't really exactly a solid route to go either especially when it can be ruled out by it being from a herpes virus.
I just remember being told that was what it was, or so they thought at the time. This was what, 36 years ago? That was just what they said, as best they knew at the time.
I really don't care to hash this around any more. It's pretty old news. It does just so happen that he was desperately ill and eventually recovered, thanks to good medical care, prayer, beet juice, blackstrap molasses, whatever.
Agreed... so often you see people who have come close to death become very humble and thankful and giving human beings because they realize that they've been given a second chance and they want to make the most of it. Seems like Uncle Howard took the attitude that god musta saved him because he was already doing things so right we needed his example here on earth... hah!
With all the current discussions about Doc Vic's stories, and whether there is a shred of believability to any of them, someone reminded me of the Howard Allen illness... and I have to wonder: was any of it the truth?
What I remember being told is that the two of them had been out hunting, and suddenly HA came down ill. Vic drove the camper back to civilization, having to stop repeatedly to keep Howard in bed. The docs couldn't cure him, and it took careful natural food ministrations (and much prayer) to bring him back to wellness.
But all this took place before my twi-time, and in light of what I now know to be pure BS, or stolen ideas, I have to ask... were any of you part of twi at the time? What were you told? What do you KNOW to be true? What do you suspect to be truth? Exaggerations? Patent lies???
HA's illness did occur and the entire ministry at that time was asked to fervently pray for him. He was admitted into a hospital under the supervision of Dr FW. As some of the posts suggest, there was an urgency because HA was beloved by everyone and was Dr's best friend. I far as I recall, part of the remedy was governed by Grace Bliss who was knowledgable of natural remedies and what is now called homeopathic medicine. I remember the remedy was mosty a concoction of freshly squeezed beet juice. I do not remember what the cause or name of the illness but he was close to dying. Contrary to some of the posts, HA was humbled by the experience and was a decent, loving soul for many years. I used to spend time with him and Imogene during my years on Staff teaching them social dancing, (the waltz, foxtrot, cha-cha, swing and rumba) in their kitchen. I last talked to him in 88 and disassociated from TWI when refusing to reply to LCM allegience letter in 89. The demise of the ministry was a sad event particularly when it was helped along by the BOT and others disobeying God 's Word. I would like to remember HA as the kind, caring believer I witnessed over 20 years ago.
I can verify Howard was very ill and that Dr. called it encephalitis. I was in-residence in the Way Corps at HQ at the time. We prayed round the clock for him and heard from Dr. that beet juice was being administered to Howard while in his hospital bed and Pa# L*nn was there often to help. I remember Dr. telling us that this unorthodox beet juice treatment, although sanctioned by the attending physician (a PFAL grad), was causing a stir at the hospital, but that it was helping.
The day Dr. and Howard arrived back at HQ after Howard's stay in the hospital, we greeted him with cheers as he climbed out of the camper. We stood on the driveway alongside the ramp that leads to the BRC dining room. He was very fraile but walked on his own and stayed home for quite a while after that.
I remember Dr. saying he believed the hitchhiker must have been an angel. I was very impressed with that, as I was a very impressionable 20 year old in 1972. (Now you know how old I am :-) Anyway, the event surely was labeled as a miracle. God saved VP's best friend, etc. It seems to me that the story was used at many meetings to testify to the power of God's healing and the stand the ministry took on believing God for miracles, as well as promoting natural ingredients to heal, in addition to using regular medicines.
Watergarden, as a nurse, is there any health benefit that beet juice had/has, as oppossed to other fruit juices for vitamins and minerals? Mollasses obviously is a source of sugar for a quick burst of energy.
I'm no expert but from what I've been reading beets have a lot of vitamins and trace minerals in them which help the body's circulatory, anit-inflammatory, and digestive processes. Most of the same things are said of blackstrap molasses, and both these things have high carbs and easy digestability to their credit as well. It looks to me like GB might have just been trying to strengthen Howard's body so it could fight off the encephalitis problem better itself, or even respond better to whatever medicines the doctors might have been giving him.
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rascal
Highway, I remember being at some big event. I think that it had to be a roa or something years after the fact when they told the story of Howard allens healing...it was told start to finish....vp talked, but so did some others. They said at that time it was herpes simplex 3.
It was years after the fact, but they did say in a big public setting.
Highway, I remember being at some big event. I think that it had to be a roa or something years after the fact when they told the story of Howard allens healing...it was told start to finish....vp talked, but so did some others. They said at that time it was herpes simplex 3.
It was years after the fact, but they did say in a big public setting.
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doojable
Just a few thoughts here:
I had a sister-in-law that died from viral meningitis in the early 90's. I'm not sure if herpes was the virus or not, but no mention was made or intimated about anything other than the fact that this was a virus and she would either recover or not. She died within 4 days of entering the hospital.
Regarding herpes as an STD, IIRC herpes wasn't recognized as an STD until the 80's. So if HA was sick in the 70's it is highly unlikely that anyone would have made any connection at all.
My only observation was that instead of saying giving out what information they had - even after the fact, twi's information-washing machine went into a spin cycle and kept the facts to a minimum. For some reason it was always necessary to make everything a spiritual battle. I'm not sure why a miracle would be any less or more a miracle if the facts were given.
A - HA was sick and almost died from viral encephalitis.
B - HA was sick and almost died because the devil wanted him dead.
BUT - in the end - he was healed with beet juice, molasses, and prayer....
Not that there's anything wrong with that... ;)
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TheHighWay
I have to admit that I'm surprised by this. Maybe they felt they could talk about it since Howard actually recovered. Besides I don't think anyone ever claimed an infection was driven by spirit influence (as VP said about cancer -- oops).
Actually, I doubt it... first because the related virus wasn't identified as an STD back then, and second because most of us were all far too worshipful to be poking fun or giggling about the leadership over anything. :unsure: I think it was just their habit to put a mysterious, spiritual spin on absolutely everything. Whether they actually believed it was an attack of the adversary, and Howard was healed by divine intervention, or if that was just a piece of moose-turd-pie dished out for the rest of us, well, that's anyone's guess.
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skyrider
This might be abit
.......but here goes
Why were wierwille's "stories" ISOLATED OCCURRENCES with hardly anyone around?
And, why were most ALL of these stories.......FROM YEARS PAST?
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lindyhopper
There's no gossiping and giggling going on over here, WG.
I am not saying or implying that you said it was an STD. You DID say it was "herpes encephalitis". I have just pointed out that there are only a couple of ways of getting that. I don't know which one it was, but I know that you don't get encephalitis from a herpes virus by getting a mosquito or tick bite. That is a different type of viral encephalitis. You seemed very certain that it was herpes encephalitis, but that it was not an STD even though there was no such diagnosis at the time. So I'm confused by what you said, your certainty that it wasn't an STD, and your fierce defense of that opinion. No one is trying to start a rumor, just getting a clearer picture. If it was an STD then it was, if it wasn't then it wasn't, but as far as I can tell, none of us can say either way for certain since there was not a diagnosis for it as an STD at the time, not even an eye witness. That doesn't mean it wasn't one or that is was one, just that it was one of the two types.
Now if you want to now say that it may not have been any type of herpes at all and that it was just some sort of encephalitis then we are looking at a larger pool of possibilities. Do I really care one way or the other? No. I was interested in whether it was a true story or not, and I guess it was, but since there is all this uproar about it definitely not being an STD when there is no way for you to know that, I got a little more interested.
My wife is in the medical field and did disease investigations for quite a while and still talks about it all the time, so much so that I could probably get a job somewhere doing it. So, it is something of interest to me. I know when it comes to these investigations it is never good to just assume. As you get more facts the reasonable possibilities for transmission of the infection become smaller and smaller. Assuming it was arboviral just because he was outside in a field, in a certain area of the country, at a certain time of year, near somewhere, where someone knew someone else who had something similar 20 years earlier isn't really exactly a solid route to go either especially when it can be ruled out by it being from a herpes virus.
That's all I'm saying.
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Watered Garden
I just remember being told that was what it was, or so they thought at the time. This was what, 36 years ago? That was just what they said, as best they knew at the time.
I really don't care to hash this around any more. It's pretty old news. It does just so happen that he was desperately ill and eventually recovered, thanks to good medical care, prayer, beet juice, blackstrap molasses, whatever.
WG
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frank123lol
His healing sure didnt help his atittude what an egomanic.
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TheHighWay
Agreed... so often you see people who have come close to death become very humble and thankful and giving human beings because they realize that they've been given a second chance and they want to make the most of it. Seems like Uncle Howard took the attitude that god musta saved him because he was already doing things so right we needed his example here on earth... hah!
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excathedra
tic should have bit him
or kissed him even
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So_Cal1
HA's illness did occur and the entire ministry at that time was asked to fervently pray for him. He was admitted into a hospital under the supervision of Dr FW. As some of the posts suggest, there was an urgency because HA was beloved by everyone and was Dr's best friend. I far as I recall, part of the remedy was governed by Grace Bliss who was knowledgable of natural remedies and what is now called homeopathic medicine. I remember the remedy was mosty a concoction of freshly squeezed beet juice. I do not remember what the cause or name of the illness but he was close to dying. Contrary to some of the posts, HA was humbled by the experience and was a decent, loving soul for many years. I used to spend time with him and Imogene during my years on Staff teaching them social dancing, (the waltz, foxtrot, cha-cha, swing and rumba) in their kitchen. I last talked to him in 88 and disassociated from TWI when refusing to reply to LCM allegience letter in 89. The demise of the ministry was a sad event particularly when it was helped along by the BOT and others disobeying God 's Word. I would like to remember HA as the kind, caring believer I witnessed over 20 years ago.
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TheHighWay
Thanks SoCal1, I appreciate your input!
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frank123lol
Ahh,Imho,88 on things and people got bad,
Maybe if said individual knew you that is one thing,
but.. The way was and is like this,If leadership likes you you go far if not
They will tear you apart.
Ha (Rome city ac for grads that had either left and came back or not been
active) Said in front of the audience that we had killed his best friend.
So if I am jaundiced so be it
As far as healings others were healed too but never the same billing as ha as
he was "Drs best friend".
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penworks
I can verify Howard was very ill and that Dr. called it encephalitis. I was in-residence in the Way Corps at HQ at the time. We prayed round the clock for him and heard from Dr. that beet juice was being administered to Howard while in his hospital bed and Pa# L*nn was there often to help. I remember Dr. telling us that this unorthodox beet juice treatment, although sanctioned by the attending physician (a PFAL grad), was causing a stir at the hospital, but that it was helping.
The day Dr. and Howard arrived back at HQ after Howard's stay in the hospital, we greeted him with cheers as he climbed out of the camper. We stood on the driveway alongside the ramp that leads to the BRC dining room. He was very fraile but walked on his own and stayed home for quite a while after that.
I remember Dr. saying he believed the hitchhiker must have been an angel. I was very impressed with that, as I was a very impressionable 20 year old in 1972. (Now you know how old I am :-) Anyway, the event surely was labeled as a miracle. God saved VP's best friend, etc. It seems to me that the story was used at many meetings to testify to the power of God's healing and the stand the ministry took on believing God for miracles, as well as promoting natural ingredients to heal, in addition to using regular medicines.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Watergarden, as a nurse, is there any health benefit that beet juice had/has, as oppossed to other fruit juices for vitamins and minerals? Mollasses obviously is a source of sugar for a quick burst of energy.
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TheHighWay
I'm no expert but from what I've been reading beets have a lot of vitamins and trace minerals in them which help the body's circulatory, anit-inflammatory, and digestive processes. Most of the same things are said of blackstrap molasses, and both these things have high carbs and easy digestability to their credit as well. It looks to me like GB might have just been trying to strengthen Howard's body so it could fight off the encephalitis problem better itself, or even respond better to whatever medicines the doctors might have been giving him.
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