A jury also should decide whether there was a conspiracy among officials of The Way. Evidence existed that Rivenbark knew of Martindale?s sexual relationships outside his marriage as early as 1995, Schmitt noted. Evidence exists that Rivenbark and another woman played a role in events leading to the encounters between Allen and Martindale, which a jury would have to use to decide whether officials engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity against the Allens, Schmitt ruled.
Excerpt from the Sydney Daily News article November 07, 2000.
I've been looking at the old Waydale Documents section on the main Grease Spot Cafe page and read the article TheHighWay mentioned in his previous post. (click here)
The paragraph he quoted caught my eye right away - but this also made me raise my eyebrows:
quote: Rico Magnelli, public relations coordinator for The Way, confirmed a settlement with the Allens had been reached but would not divulge any more information.
"We are not ready to release anything at this time," Magnelli said. "We will release something on this at a later date."
Ahem... it's a later date... has anything been released? To whom? Was it in print? An announcement? I certainly don't remember hearing anything about TWI "releasing" any comment regarding that law suit.
Can anyone tell me exactly what Mr. Magnelli said at that later date?
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
Let me also quote this section of the article - it really got me wondering if anyone who is still in TWI ever read it.
quote:In that October ruling,[Judge] Schmitt upheld the remaining four counts of the Allens' suit, including the allegation that Mrs. Allen was sexually victimized by Martindale, Bidon and others; that the assault upon Mrs. Allen occurred as a result of civil conspiracy; that The Way engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity which included acts of assault and rape; and breach of contract.
Let's analyze this for a second... here's my literal translation according to usage in the Grease Spot Household...
"The assault was a result of a civil conspiracy" - IMO, that means more than ONE person was involved in conspiring to assault the victim.
"that The Way" - meaning not just LCM or VPW or any one person - IMO, THE WAY indicates the entire BOT/BOD and other leaders knew about these assaults.
"engaged in a pattern" - hmmm, a pattern. That's something that repeats itself over and over again, isn't it?
Encarta defines pattern in many ways. Two of the definitions are: "a regular or repetitive form, order, or arrangement; a predictable pattern of behavior"
and
"regular way of doing something: a regular or standard way of moving or behaving."
IMO, the judge believed that this was not a one time occurance. That a regular, standard pattern of behavior had been established for the corruption at TWI's top echelon.
"...which included acts of assault and rape..."
There it is again - the word RAPE - and this isn't something some poor, little, victimized, ex-way person with an ax to grind said. It's from a JUDGE who has never had a THING to do with TWI. He called it RAPE - and said there was a PATTERN of rape that occurred in TWI along with acts (plural) of assault.
I hope I never hear anyone say that the women who were abused by LCM and/or VPW were not raped again.
This document is a couple of years old now... and they STILL haven't come out and admitted any of this happened. As far as I know, they STILL haven't apologized to their followers or tried to make amends to those victims who were devastated by TWI's top leadership. IMO, they have to wait for someone to sue... and even then they don't tell their followers the truth.
Hope R. color>size>face>
[This message was edited by Hope R. on February 08, 2003 at 20:14.]
I have a ulterior motive for posting this stuff. Since Mike appeared and started up his VP/PFAL threads, many of the discussions on GS have been about VPW's research and TWI-1.
I'm not saying that shouldn't be up for discussion - but a lot of people who are still in today don't know jack about VP, and really don't care. They were told some kind of fairy tale about him, I'm sure. But a lot of the legalism of TWI-2 really wasn't apparent in TWI-1 - and that's what is affecting people who are still in or who have recently gotten out.
I can hear people mumbling "control freak" under their breath as they read this. But my opinion is that more needs to be said about what's gone on in recent years, and what is going on NOW! Like why Donna M. is still living in the log mansion in the woods? Like what are the so-called policy changes regarding debt and mark and avoid which have hurt so many people in recent years? How much of the ABS has been spent on law suits the past few years?
TWI has been very quiet recently. Not much to talk about, not much to tell. In the chat room the other day, it came up that some topics were being re-hashed for the 10th time since Waydale started. But think about it - the title of WW's thread is "May I remind newer lurkers and posters"...
There are new people registering every day. I would venture to say that most of them are either still in - or newly out. Those who have been out for a while have stated a few times that they were wondering what became of TWI and that's why they looked at GS.
I'm glad topics about TWI-1 are continuing. They need to be for those who suffered abuse and humiliation during that period of TWI's history.
For me personally, TWI-2 was far worse - and more in the forefront of my memory because I only left a little over 2 years ago.
I need to reminded that as awful as TWI-1 may have been, TWI-2 continued to be as evil, if not more evil, IMO. I don't want them to be forgotten just because they've quietly slithered back under their rock...
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
So I thought I'd offer my perspective as one who left TWI during the great Exodus of the late 80's.
When I first started posting at Waydale, I actually had conversations via email, chat, IM, etc with TWI 2ers who actually blamed the corps and leadership of TWI 1 who either got fired or left, for the mess that TWI 2 became. The basic rationale was that we should've done more to expose the evil, yadda, yadda, yadda. Geeeeze, loooouise. That attitude expressed to me a total lack of understanding of what really happened during those final years of TWI 1.
So, I think it's helpful to discuss and compare notes regarding TWI 1 as well, to shed some light on those happenings that determined the course of TWI 2.
Of course some of us who weren't around for TWI 2 have a really hard time relating to what the way became. So I guess my point is, that I think both sides of the discussion are equally valid.
I think the recovery process has got to be tons harder for those who have left in more recent years. So, I totally get your perspective. I just thought I'd add my 50 cents.
[This message was edited by ex10 on February 15, 2003 at 11:59.]
quote: Of course some of us who weren't around for TWI 2 have a really hard time relating to what the way became.
Thank you so much for saying that. I have been trying to put it in the right words for a few years now without insulting anyone or making it sound like "my TWI was worse than your TWI!"
And you're correct - all discussions are valid about TWI 1 or 2.
My observation is that since Mike appeared defending VP as the MOG and PFAL as the Word of God, much of threads on GS have become about those things. LCM, Rosalie, Donna and the law suits have all but disappeared (thank you Dot! Glad you posted that stuff). I think the current regime at HQ's is glad we're "dwelling in the past" because we're NOT talking about them!
I'm not sure if I'm saying it the right way - I don't want anyone to think I believe that TWI-1 topics aren't necessary. I'm just asking that more TWI-2 stuff get to the top of the page again for those still in or on the fence. I guess I'm on some kind of personal crusade - and I'm much better at un witnessing than I ever was at witnessing!
xoxoxo to Ex10...
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
While to those that left long before the announced World is over the world and never crossed into the Promised Land of the Prevailing World may have more fascination about things VPW and PFAL, even to those *in* they are really ancient history and dead for the most part.
Perhaps Paw in all his ability and knowledge might be able to some how help find a way to balance out these things. What is a look at TWI without some history, but what possible history helps to catch the eye, mind of heart of some one now sitting behind the walls of Zion trying to decide what to do?
What things are being posted that would allow those in to take a solid case to their spouse or other family members to show that the BOT/BOD of today are as much or even more evil than the past? The debate can be argued that things have changed and now they have a BOT/BOD worth trusting, after all they were never part of the problem. Oh they weren?t? Read the things posted on this thread and tell me that Rosie hasn?t single handed allowed, helped and covered for LCM and the others on the BOT/BOD are hand picked by her.
What is going on in the Walls of Zion? Have the become legit and are now wonderful not just on stage Christians as they move into community involvement?
How many ways can we argue the deity of VP and the source of PFAL? I am one that can almost predict accurately what responses and also what mono-debates of many of the posters that so easily get caught up in these things. Guess what guys and gals, you are wasting your breath as those that agree will agree and those that don?t will not be convinced!
But while the spot light is *on* events of the past that are only subject to opinion the evil growing and manipulating from behind the curtain of the holy of holies at HQ enjoys freedom to do as they want because information is limited to the way things were at The Way!
quote: But while the spot light is *on* events of the past that are only subject to opinion the evil growing and manipulating from behind the curtain of the holy of holies at HQ enjoys freedom to do as they want because information is limited to the way things were at The Way!
Amen, Grizz
I was thinking about the first time I started looking at ex-Way sites on the internet. The first one I came across was "No Way Out". The articles on there were old news. There was a big one about the stupid "Kansas Safe Hunters" class the Corps had to take when I was in rez. Heck - Emporia had been sold by the time that article came out, and most of us who took that class knew it was the same class they gave the 4-H club kids.
Yet there it was - all this stuff about para-military TWI training the Corps with guns.
I laughed at it. I was still in at the time, and didn't have much respect for the people who put that site together because there was nothing CURRENT on it. Every article was about stuff that happened 15 year ago or more.
No wonder TWI wasn't threatened by any internet site until Waydale appeared - with information that was up-to-date and really eye-opening as to what was going on at HQ's and TWI's strange policies. That was stuff that even I, as an innie, knew nothing about.
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
quote:There it is again - the word RAPE - and this isn't something some poor, little, victimized, ex-way person with an ax to grind said. It's from a JUDGE who has never had a THING to do with TWI. He called it RAPE - and said there was a PATTERN of rape that occurred in TWI along with acts (plural) of assault.
I hope I never hear anyone say that the women who were abused by LCM and/or VPW were not raped again.
Hope, something doesn't quite fit here. If the Judge really said that LCM committed rape, why didn't he have him locked up? To the best of my knowledge, Judges have the authority to lock someone up when they have evidence of a felony being committed.
quote:In that October ruling,[Judge] Schmitt upheld the remaining four counts of the Allens' suit, including the allegation that Mrs. Allen was sexually victimized by Martindale, Bidon and others; _that the assault upon Mrs. Allen occurred as a result of civil _conspiracy_; that The Way engaged in a _pattern_ of corrupt activity which included acts of assault and _rape_; and breach of contract._
Those are not conclusions of the judge. They are allegations the Allens made, that the judge was going to allow to proceed to trial. He dismissed two other allegations, not because he ruled that they weren't true, but because determining their truth and assigning blame, if due, was not the province of the court.
The judge didn't say that Martindale committed rape. He didn't rule on facts at all. He ruled on which counts would go to trial (civil trial, not criminal).
Long Gone - the judge did rule that the remaining 4 counts be upheld because he believed the allegations of the plaintiff's were credible. That included the "pattern of corrupt activity which included acts of assault and rape and breach of contract."
No, he didn't make conclusions, he made a ruling. I'm not a lawyer, but if a judge rules that those 4 counts are valid, isn't he coming to a conclusion that these things might have occurred and that they were worth bringing before a jury?
Oldiesman - I agree with long gone. Read the quote again - it doesn't mention just LCM - it mentions LCM, Bidon and "others" - and that the assault was part of a a civil conspiracy against the plaintiff. Had it been a criminal case, it may have indeed resulted in a prison sentence had it gone to trial. We will never know.
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
I was in what you consider twi2 for only a few months ( after being marked in twi1 and on my own for almost ten years)it was too insane for any longer, I spent the whole time getting those I could out of it....
But as you call twi1 which is when vpw was alive and wandering the grounds hahaha anyway...
that is when I had my experience of the sexual abuse and it was rapant and serious .
I believe it laid out the foundation for whatever the hell happened in LCM day and time ...
vpw knew he dam well knew but he had alot more power over the people than lcm ever dreamed of...
he could and did have the power to shut us up....
we did try well I did.... and I tell you the only ones who found out how bad it was were the ones who tried to stop it...
the rest just rode along in the cult world... till vpw actualy died that is how much power that dude had over his followers not kidding .
I do not blame those who didnt speak up in the least the price was way to high and the fun was still being had....love ya man was the ticket ....
do not speak evil all of it .
some of you will never know how difficult it was.
that is why when I read about then and now and 1 and 2 I go a little nuts....
vpw was a freaking KIng to these people lcm not so much.... personly I think it was tights in the show ya know?
You're welcome Fresh - <BR><BR>I have a ulterior motive for posting this stuff. Since Mike appeared and started up his VP/PFAL threads, many of the discussions on GS have been about VPW's research and TWI-1.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that shouldn't be up for discussion - but a lot of people who are still in today don't know jack about VP, and really don't care. They were told some kind of fairy tale about him, I'm sure. But a lot of the legalism of TWI-2 really wasn't apparent in TWI-1 - and that's what is affecting people who are still in or who have recently gotten out.<BR><BR>I can hear people mumbling "control freak" under their breath as they read this. But my opinion is that more needs to be said about what's gone on in recent years, and what is going on NOW! Like why Donna M. is still living in the log mansion in the woods? Like what are the so-called policy changes regarding debt and mark and avoid which have hurt so many people in recent years? How much of the ABS has been spent on law suits the past few years? <BR><BR>TWI has been very quiet recently. Not much to talk about, not much to tell. In the chat room the other day, it came up that some topics were being re-hashed for the 10th time since Waydale started. But think about it - the title of WW's thread is "May I remind newer lurkers and posters"...<BR><BR>There are new people registering every day. I would venture to say that most of them are either still in - or newly out. Those who have been out for a while have stated a few times that they were wondering what became of TWI and that's why they looked at GS.<BR><BR>I'm glad topics about TWI-1 are continuing. They need to be for those who suffered abuse and humiliation during that period of TWI's history. <BR><BR>For me personally, TWI-2 was far worse - and more in the forefront of my memory because I only left a little over 2 years ago.<BR><BR>I need to reminded that as awful as TWI-1 may have been, TWI-2 continued to be as evil, if not more evil, IMO. I don't want them to be forgotten just because they've quietly slithered back under their rock...<BR><BR> <font color=red><font size=5><font face="invitation"> Hope R. </font color></font size></font face> <BR><BR><font size=1>I get by with a little help from my friends... </font size>
Really like your style..reminds me of the old days It might be time to have you do the do and get it going again? YOUR THE bEST!
Addtional information regarding LCM from legal documents made public:<BR>Even though LCM's Deposition is sealed, there is a reference (by the Judge in his judgement) to a comment he (LCM) made. Why TWI decided to settle with the Allens and fired LCM quickly becomes clearer.<BR><BR>TWI's lawyers filed a motion to exclude testimony of LCM's previous sexual relationships. From the plaintiff (Allens') attorney's brief to the judge to block this action, the attorney quoted a section of LCM's testimony of himself:<BR><BR>"...in light of defendant Martindale's deposition testimony wherein he acknowledged his "sexual misadventures" with both married and unmarried women to whom he ministered as their reverend over a period many many years".<BR><BR>TWI insists to its followers it was a one time deal. Yet, Martindale admits it wasn't. Women is plural and it refers to both married and unmarried women.<BR><BR>Why did TWI's attorney's file a motion to block EVIDENCE of previous sexual encounters if it was really a one time deal?<BR><BR>From the Affidavit of Rosalie Rivenbark (Question #14): <BR><BR>"It first came to my attention and to the attention of the Board of Trustees that Craig Martindale had been involved in an extra-marital relationship in June, 1998, when a follower named XXXXXX raised the issue of Martindale's relationship with another follower named XXXXXX."<BR><BR>So, Rivenbark's claim of ignorance and the BOT's ignorance was also concealed from her beloved household.<BR><BR>victim's names are blocked to prevent further abuse
victims ?? thats like saying monica was a victim of bill clinton,hillary was the victim. monica freely gave herself to clinton. these women gave themselves to martindale . they along with with lcm committed adultry. if lcm had raped them he would be in jail. this is what is called an affair. i dont care what those women say if lcm didnt rape them than they did it by there free will. if they didint want to do it why didnt they resist ,say no ,report it,leave,call the cops,tell there husbands. these women are just as much at fault as lcm.thay should never have gotten 1 cent. they must have gotten a good lawyer. however it was probably cheaper in the long run for twi to settle than go to trial. i could care a less about these women or martindale they are all at fault. the only ones i have compassion for are the families of the married ones and donna martindale and kids.good riddance let them eat dirt!!! p.s. by the way! i'd bet if lcm had found out that a SINGLE guy and a SINGLE gal had a fling they would have ben thrown out IMMEDIATLY!!!! hypocrite!!!!
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Midnight Fun
Like I heard once somewhere......in a Bible class I think,
'Somebody has GOT to be the liar' (or something like that)
Hmmmmm.
Thanks for the info WashingtonWeather.
(all said imho)
.
Your almost there, just don't screw up.
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johniam
Yeah, and Monica Lewinski was Bill Clinton's ONE TIME ONLY sexual 'misadventure'. Mmm hmm.
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TheHighWay
Let me please add the judge's own comments:
A jury also should decide whether there was a conspiracy among officials of The Way. Evidence existed that Rivenbark knew of Martindale?s sexual relationships outside his marriage as early as 1995, Schmitt noted. Evidence exists that Rivenbark and another woman played a role in events leading to the encounters between Allen and Martindale, which a jury would have to use to decide whether officials engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity against the Allens, Schmitt ruled.
Excerpt from the Sydney Daily News article November 07, 2000.
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Hope R.
I've been looking at the old Waydale Documents section on the main Grease Spot Cafe page and read the article TheHighWay mentioned in his previous post. (click here)
The paragraph he quoted caught my eye right away - but this also made me raise my eyebrows:
Ahem... it's a later date... has anything been released? To whom? Was it in print? An announcement? I certainly don't remember hearing anything about TWI "releasing" any comment regarding that law suit.
Can anyone tell me exactly what Mr. Magnelli said at that later date?
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
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Hope R.
Let me also quote this section of the article - it really got me wondering if anyone who is still in TWI ever read it.
Let's analyze this for a second... here's my literal translation according to usage in the Grease Spot Household...
"The assault was a result of a civil conspiracy" - IMO, that means more than ONE person was involved in conspiring to assault the victim.
"that The Way" - meaning not just LCM or VPW or any one person - IMO, THE WAY indicates the entire BOT/BOD and other leaders knew about these assaults.
"engaged in a pattern" - hmmm, a pattern. That's something that repeats itself over and over again, isn't it?
Encarta defines pattern in many ways. Two of the definitions are: "a regular or repetitive form, order, or arrangement; a predictable pattern of behavior"
and
"regular way of doing something: a regular or standard way of moving or behaving."
IMO, the judge believed that this was not a one time occurance. That a regular, standard pattern of behavior had been established for the corruption at TWI's top echelon.
"...which included acts of assault and rape..."
There it is again - the word RAPE - and this isn't something some poor, little, victimized, ex-way person with an ax to grind said. It's from a JUDGE who has never had a THING to do with TWI. He called it RAPE - and said there was a PATTERN of rape that occurred in TWI along with acts (plural) of assault.
I hope I never hear anyone say that the women who were abused by LCM and/or VPW were not raped again.
This document is a couple of years old now... and they STILL haven't come out and admitted any of this happened. As far as I know, they STILL haven't apologized to their followers or tried to make amends to those victims who were devastated by TWI's top leadership. IMO, they have to wait for someone to sue... and even then they don't tell their followers the truth.
Hope R. color>size>face>
[This message was edited by Hope R. on February 08, 2003 at 20:14.]
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FreshAir 99
Could it be any CLEARER?
Thanks WW, Hope and others.
Fresh
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Hope R.
You're welcome Fresh -
I have a ulterior motive for posting this stuff. Since Mike appeared and started up his VP/PFAL threads, many of the discussions on GS have been about VPW's research and TWI-1.
I'm not saying that shouldn't be up for discussion - but a lot of people who are still in today don't know jack about VP, and really don't care. They were told some kind of fairy tale about him, I'm sure. But a lot of the legalism of TWI-2 really wasn't apparent in TWI-1 - and that's what is affecting people who are still in or who have recently gotten out.
I can hear people mumbling "control freak" under their breath as they read this. But my opinion is that more needs to be said about what's gone on in recent years, and what is going on NOW! Like why Donna M. is still living in the log mansion in the woods? Like what are the so-called policy changes regarding debt and mark and avoid which have hurt so many people in recent years? How much of the ABS has been spent on law suits the past few years?
TWI has been very quiet recently. Not much to talk about, not much to tell. In the chat room the other day, it came up that some topics were being re-hashed for the 10th time since Waydale started. But think about it - the title of WW's thread is "May I remind newer lurkers and posters"...
There are new people registering every day. I would venture to say that most of them are either still in - or newly out. Those who have been out for a while have stated a few times that they were wondering what became of TWI and that's why they looked at GS.
I'm glad topics about TWI-1 are continuing. They need to be for those who suffered abuse and humiliation during that period of TWI's history.
For me personally, TWI-2 was far worse - and more in the forefront of my memory because I only left a little over 2 years ago.
I need to reminded that as awful as TWI-1 may have been, TWI-2 continued to be as evil, if not more evil, IMO. I don't want them to be forgotten just because they've quietly slithered back under their rock...
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
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ex10
Hope
I think I understand your point of view here.
So I thought I'd offer my perspective as one who left TWI during the great Exodus of the late 80's.
When I first started posting at Waydale, I actually had conversations via email, chat, IM, etc with TWI 2ers who actually blamed the corps and leadership of TWI 1 who either got fired or left, for the mess that TWI 2 became. The basic rationale was that we should've done more to expose the evil, yadda, yadda, yadda. Geeeeze, loooouise. That attitude expressed to me a total lack of understanding of what really happened during those final years of TWI 1.
So, I think it's helpful to discuss and compare notes regarding TWI 1 as well, to shed some light on those happenings that determined the course of TWI 2.
Of course some of us who weren't around for TWI 2 have a really hard time relating to what the way became. So I guess my point is, that I think both sides of the discussion are equally valid.
I think the recovery process has got to be tons harder for those who have left in more recent years. So, I totally get your perspective. I just thought I'd add my 50 cents.
[This message was edited by ex10 on February 15, 2003 at 11:59.]
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Hope R.
Thank you so much for saying that. I have been trying to put it in the right words for a few years now without insulting anyone or making it sound like "my TWI was worse than your TWI!"
And you're correct - all discussions are valid about TWI 1 or 2.
My observation is that since Mike appeared defending VP as the MOG and PFAL as the Word of God, much of threads on GS have become about those things. LCM, Rosalie, Donna and the law suits have all but disappeared (thank you Dot! Glad you posted that stuff). I think the current regime at HQ's is glad we're "dwelling in the past" because we're NOT talking about them!
I'm not sure if I'm saying it the right way - I don't want anyone to think I believe that TWI-1 topics aren't necessary. I'm just asking that more TWI-2 stuff get to the top of the page again for those still in or on the fence. I guess I'm on some kind of personal crusade - and I'm much better at un witnessing than I ever was at witnessing!
xoxoxo to Ex10...
Hope R. color>size>face>
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ex10
ah, ok, Hope
Now I get it even better.....
;)-->
I agree.
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Grizzy
While to those that left long before the announced World is over the world and never crossed into the Promised Land of the Prevailing World may have more fascination about things VPW and PFAL, even to those *in* they are really ancient history and dead for the most part.
Perhaps Paw in all his ability and knowledge might be able to some how help find a way to balance out these things. What is a look at TWI without some history, but what possible history helps to catch the eye, mind of heart of some one now sitting behind the walls of Zion trying to decide what to do?
What things are being posted that would allow those in to take a solid case to their spouse or other family members to show that the BOT/BOD of today are as much or even more evil than the past? The debate can be argued that things have changed and now they have a BOT/BOD worth trusting, after all they were never part of the problem. Oh they weren?t? Read the things posted on this thread and tell me that Rosie hasn?t single handed allowed, helped and covered for LCM and the others on the BOT/BOD are hand picked by her.
What is going on in the Walls of Zion? Have the become legit and are now wonderful not just on stage Christians as they move into community involvement?
How many ways can we argue the deity of VP and the source of PFAL? I am one that can almost predict accurately what responses and also what mono-debates of many of the posters that so easily get caught up in these things. Guess what guys and gals, you are wasting your breath as those that agree will agree and those that don?t will not be convinced!
But while the spot light is *on* events of the past that are only subject to opinion the evil growing and manipulating from behind the curtain of the holy of holies at HQ enjoys freedom to do as they want because information is limited to the way things were at The Way!
Tell you what, the Mormon?s history is far worse than TWI?s and they have been successful at moving beyond that and having success as being seen as legit! There is plenty, a down right abundance of info on the web to show there horrid past, but it being all history they easily distance themselves from it. When was the last time a leader in TWI castrated a young man so his fiancé could be the leaders? Yet because of the face they are able to present now few question and fewer look into their past before joining.
TWI is going to slip through the cracks because of the over fascination of things long gone.................................
Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>
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Hope R.
Amen, Grizz
I was thinking about the first time I started looking at ex-Way sites on the internet. The first one I came across was "No Way Out". The articles on there were old news. There was a big one about the stupid "Kansas Safe Hunters" class the Corps had to take when I was in rez. Heck - Emporia had been sold by the time that article came out, and most of us who took that class knew it was the same class they gave the 4-H club kids.
Yet there it was - all this stuff about para-military TWI training the Corps with guns.
I laughed at it. I was still in at the time, and didn't have much respect for the people who put that site together because there was nothing CURRENT on it. Every article was about stuff that happened 15 year ago or more.
No wonder TWI wasn't threatened by any internet site until Waydale appeared - with information that was up-to-date and really eye-opening as to what was going on at HQ's and TWI's strange policies. That was stuff that even I, as an innie, knew nothing about.
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
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oldiesman
Hope, something doesn't quite fit here. If the Judge really said that LCM committed rape, why didn't he have him locked up? To the best of my knowledge, Judges have the authority to lock someone up when they have evidence of a felony being committed.
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LG
Regarding this:
Those are not conclusions of the judge. They are allegations the Allens made, that the judge was going to allow to proceed to trial. He dismissed two other allegations, not because he ruled that they weren't true, but because determining their truth and assigning blame, if due, was not the province of the court.
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LG
Oldiesman,
The judge didn't say that Martindale committed rape. He didn't rule on facts at all. He ruled on which counts would go to trial (civil trial, not criminal).
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Hope R.
Long Gone - the judge did rule that the remaining 4 counts be upheld because he believed the allegations of the plaintiff's were credible. That included the "pattern of corrupt activity which included acts of assault and rape and breach of contract."
No, he didn't make conclusions, he made a ruling. I'm not a lawyer, but if a judge rules that those 4 counts are valid, isn't he coming to a conclusion that these things might have occurred and that they were worth bringing before a jury?
Oldiesman - I agree with long gone. Read the quote again - it doesn't mention just LCM - it mentions LCM, Bidon and "others" - and that the assault was part of a a civil conspiracy against the plaintiff. Had it been a criminal case, it may have indeed resulted in a prison sentence had it gone to trial. We will never know.
Hope R. color>size>face>
I get by with a little help from my friends... size>
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insurgent
There are so many things twi could lose their a** over. They must be sweating bullets wondering what the next lawsuit will reveal.
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mj412
I am glad I read this....
I was in what you consider twi2 for only a few months ( after being marked in twi1 and on my own for almost ten years)it was too insane for any longer, I spent the whole time getting those I could out of it....
But as you call twi1 which is when vpw was alive and wandering the grounds hahaha anyway...
that is when I had my experience of the sexual abuse and it was rapant and serious .
I believe it laid out the foundation for whatever the hell happened in LCM day and time ...
vpw knew he dam well knew but he had alot more power over the people than lcm ever dreamed of...
he could and did have the power to shut us up....
we did try well I did.... and I tell you the only ones who found out how bad it was were the ones who tried to stop it...
the rest just rode along in the cult world... till vpw actualy died that is how much power that dude had over his followers not kidding .
I do not blame those who didnt speak up in the least the price was way to high and the fun was still being had....love ya man was the ticket ....
do not speak evil all of it .
some of you will never know how difficult it was.
that is why when I read about then and now and 1 and 2 I go a little nuts....
vpw was a freaking KIng to these people lcm not so much.... personly I think it was tights in the show ya know?
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skypilot
Really like your style..reminds me of the old days It might be time to have you do the do and get it going again? YOUR THE bEST!
hAPPY tRAILS mAC
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shiftthis
victims ?? thats like saying monica was a victim of bill clinton,hillary was the victim. monica freely gave herself to clinton. these women gave themselves to martindale . they along with with lcm committed adultry. if lcm had raped them he would be in jail. this is what is called an affair. i dont care what those women say if lcm didnt rape them than they did it by there free will. if they didint want to do it why didnt they resist ,say no ,report it,leave,call the cops,tell there husbands. these women are just as much at fault as lcm.thay should never have gotten 1 cent. they must have gotten a good lawyer. however it was probably cheaper in the long run for twi to settle than go to trial. i could care a less about these women or martindale they are all at fault. the only ones i have compassion for are the families of the married ones and donna martindale and kids.good riddance let them eat dirt!!! p.s. by the way! i'd bet if lcm had found out that a SINGLE guy and a SINGLE gal had a fling they would have ben thrown out IMMEDIATLY!!!! hypocrite!!!!
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