That said, the "comfort zone" thing is kind of creepy. Some of the comfort zones that The Way overstepped were things like shyness speaking in front of people, or an unwillingness to work on the grounds crew, or stuff like that, which was just part of leadership training. But some of the comfort zones that The Way overstepped were pretty darn personal, and private, and sexual, so perhaps to avoid comparisons, this new group might want to clarify that one a bit.
Hey, they may do things right, or they may do things wrong. But I don't believe that they're setting out with "wrong" in mind.
I'll pray for them.
If you're still carrying around so much hurt (rightfully so, in many cases) that you don't want to pray for them, then I'm kind of thinking that praying for them might do you even more good than it does them.
I really just have to laugh at the whole J2P2 thang ... this is like the twi version of rabbit redux? OK, I don't really remember the book, but somehow it seems fitting ...
hey ... I'm on a farm ... it could be a excellent adventure ... but just from the brief look of things ... I don't think they're cookin with gas ... the whole 24 hour a day submission, we can send you packin on a whim thing is pretty "creepy" too.
It gets pretty dark out there in the country ... are there neighbors they can run to?
I really just have to laugh at the whole J2P2 thang ... this is like the twi version of rabbit redux? OK, I don't really remember the book, but somehow it seems fitting ...
hey ... I'm on a farm ... it could be a excellent adventure ... but just from the brief look of things ... I don't think they're cookin with gas ... the whole 24 hour a day submission, we can send you packin on a whim thing is pretty "creepy" too.
It gets pretty dark out there in the country ... are there neighbors they can run to?
Hmm..Neighbors they can run to?Ole Miississip What you doin thar boy? Or you yanks
doin out here in the south.
They picked the location it is h#ll and gone part of miss.
Frankly, my impression of your incessant zeal on this subject, and that you seem not to believe you've made your point, is that you have as serious of a lack of understanding of legitimate social and/or emotional boundaries as you claim TWI has had.
Guilty as charged brother.. but I don't call them LEGITIMATE.
I'm SUPPOSED to be some kind of "elder" in the "church", am I not?
I'm pulling out the wild card here.
Tough "crappies" as they say..
They know exactly who I am. That being said, I don't hate them. Far to the contrary.
... the whole 24 hour a day submission, we can send you packin on a whim thing is pretty "creepy" too.
It gets pretty dark out there in the country ... are there neighbors they can run to?
Funny how those exact thoughts ran through my mind 30+ years ago as I found myself living in a commune in the middle of Podunk, USA---(Except you can replace "they" with "I")
Found Smith County, MS on Wikipedia. It's county seat is Raleigh, with other towns and villages being Mize, Taylorsville, Polkville, Sylvarena, Burns, and Summerland. 3 of them are the same as in North Carolina and Summerland reminds me of Michael Jackson's Neverland mixed with hints of ROA. :huh: ^_^ -_- <_< :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:
Found Smith County, MS on Wikipedia. It's county seat is Raleigh, with other towns and villages being Mize, Taylorsville, Polkville, Sylvarena, Burns, and Summerland. 3 of them are the same as in North Carolina and Summerland reminds me of Michael Jackson's Neverland mixed with hints of ROA. :huh: ^_^ -_- <_< :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:
When you think about it, most of us here could probably find an old farm and do the same thing...Let's face it, Wierwille ran a good con game and there's folks who have decided to use the same "corps training concept" that they were taught.
Are they sincere?...could be...but the question remains...what qualifies them to be "Christian leaders"? If they are recycling Vic's devious doctrines, no thanks, no church with you boy.
I kinda view like a "survivor" series, staged for SOMEONE'S "amusement"..
maybe they think they are training these kids to be able to function in hard times, extreme circumstances. The only problem with this, the kids KNOW it's just a "drill".. they are often competitive enough to stick it out through the hazing, anticipating the million bucks at the end of the ride. Or position. Or supposedly shared power.
Slap all of the christian veneer you want to on it, I think you are bringing out the worst in human nature and behavior.
I imagine they'll play for part of the "training" old vic's advanced class 81 live teaching, how after receiving this great "revelation", if you don't kuckle under, the world's gonna try to buy you out, intimidate, smear, and if all else fails, finally try to get the government to put you six feet under..
When you think about it, most of us here could probably find an old farm and do the same thing...Let's face it, Wierwille ran a good con game and there's folks who have decided to use the same "corps training concept" that they were taught.
Are they sincere?...could be...but the question remains...what qualifies them to be "Christian leaders"? If they are recycling Vic's devious doctrines, no thanks, no church with you boy.
The sad part is that you don't even need a farm. A farm makes for a closer analogy to the old TWI - but any old house with some land and a lot of work to be done will do.
I watched it happen. A house, some land, before you knew it ABS was being collected to make improvements "so the Word-a-Gawd would move." Lots of man hours were put into finish work, a gargage got turned into a playroom teaching room, extra land was purchased (but no one really knew why) it was sad and sick too.
Of course, then people were moved in to help pay for it all....ummm sit at the feet of the masters...
You know...maybe that schtick was more effective than we've given it credit. After all, wasn't vp the original master at getting stuff and having someone else pay for it and do the work?
hi fellow greasespotters!..........happy st. patrick's day!
in response to groucho's question a few posts above, "what qualifies them to be 'christian leaders' "..............here's a few of those qualifications..........
Victor Wierwille Bio:
Where I Came From: Niceville, Florida – I just graduated from the University of West Florida in Pensacola
Why I’m a F.L.: I wanted to be involved and pushing forward in the things of God with people who are motivated and want to do the same thing – those are the people I wanted to be around.
Coolest Part of Being Here: Being so involved with the members of the Body of Christ and seeing the Body operate the way it was designed to.
Favorite Scripture: I John 3:20-22 – having confidence towards God, because when you have confidence, you’re not condemning yourself, you can receive from God – you’re not afraid to talk to Him.
Music Style: Country, but mainly the more traditional country and Southern rock.
On a Bad Day, I: Bar-B-Q. On a good day, I bar-b-q. It gets you just right.
Ultimate Bar-B-Q Guests: Jesus Christ, my brother and my grandfather.
What I Don’t Like: People picking on my friends.
this is from the cff fellowlaborers link at the "official" cffm website..............as far as the kind of "in depth" biblical teaching s.o.w.e.r.s. volunteers can expect, here's an example of young victor's teaching ability........
some excerpts from the above teaching exemplify the fine training in biblical exegesis that young victor will be "tapping into" in order to help his s.o.w.e.r.s. "aquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness"...........
"Basically everyone wants to be righteous before God. Therefore, they try to work out their own righteousness and do works that make themselves look righteous. These actions include confessing sins and following the Ten Commandments. However, good works do not make a person righteous. Righteousness comes from God through the faith of Jesus Christ."
"The righteousness of God is given to everyone who believes (every believer). It is not by the cross you bear, but by the cross that Christ bore for you."We were made the righteousness of God. Some people teach that you can be righteous one minute and then become unrighteous the next minute. This is not true. Once God makes you righteous, you are forever stamped “RIGHTEOUS.” You cannot earn it. God just made you that way when you received holy spirit. Praise God!"
"The sin problem no longer exists. It was settled in Jesus Christ. Now it is only a matter of renewing the mind back to the truth. You no longer need to fear, worry, or feel unworthy! You can have that confidence that you are worthy through Christ Jesus!"
so, for those of you "worried" that maybe the sins of the grandfather may be repeated by the grandson, fuhgetaboudit!!!............"THE SIN PROBLEN NO LONGER EXISTS"..............we've taken care of that for you folks!!!..........."No worry, fear, guilt, or any other lie from this world can defeat you because you know all these things were overcome by way of Jesus Christ and that you have been made righteous. When you realize this truth from God’s Word, you will then have confidence to “come boldly unto the throne of grace…” (Hebrews 4:16)."!!!............."worry, fear, guilt"..........why they're just "lie(s) from this world" and they exist only to "defeat you"............and, btw.........stop with those darn questions too, won't you??..........
in case we run into any "tough verses" or concepts, here's an example of the fine training cffm provides it's fellowlaborers in the "principles of biblical research"............
2 Responses to “Gospel of Freedom and Deliverance - Victor Wierwille”
And be found in him [Christ] not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
In the latter part of the verse, what or whose faith is “by faith” referring to? Our faith/believing or the faith/believing of Jesus Christ?
Thank you in advance for your help!
Love in Christ,
Victor
Nathan Friedly Says: March 11th, 2008 at 9:10 pmHi Victor! Off the top of my head I’d say that I think it is our faith/believing. I think that earlier in the verse “the faith of Christ” possibly refers to our faith that we have through Holy Spirit. that is to say, it’s the same faith that Jesus Christ. But like I said, that was top of my head and deserves more studying to be sure.
nice to see our old friend nathan friedly is still an avid user of the internet!!..........guess the derailed thread he abandoned here at the greasespot is obviously not important in his scheme of things!!..........gotta keep those sowers current on the latest biblcal research "ditties" coming forth from the cffm vaults!!
i hope this helps you all in your evaluation of whether or not you can move far enough out of your "comfort zone" and join up!!!!............hope this helps to answer your question groucho!!!...........sure answers some of mine!!!..........................................peace.
how after receiving this great "revelation", if you don't kuckle under, the world's gonna try to buy you out, intimidate, smear, and if all else fails, finally try to get the government to put you six feet under..
wouldn't suprise me.
Sad, to say Ham, the world does just that and it's not a bit humorous in the least.
Sad, to say Ham, the world does just that and it's not a bit humorous in the least.
actually, in my most fanatical days, I didn't see it. The "world" maybe disregarded, made a LITTLE light of it, or simply were annoyed by my persistance, but no, they never tried to get the government to run a steamroller over me on main street.
Nor did they try to offer me a $120,000/year cushy job at the local chemical company if I'd supposedly keep my mouth shut..
Persecution can and does happen, I'm sure. But I think this little teaching did little more than get us to circle our wagons closer around the vicster's campfire..
it's like.. "and class, remember this.. the first thing you may hear from those outside da walls.. "you're NUTS"...don't believe them.."
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excathedra
thank you twinky
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bulwinkl
from Internic.net who organizes the domain names for the internet.
I have blocked out the addy, city,zip
Domain Name.......... sowersonline.com
Creation Date........ 2007-08-15
Registration Date.... 2007-08-15
Expiry Date.......... 2008-08-15
Organisation Name.... John Wierwille
Organisation Address. (blocked out his address)
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. (blocked out his city)
Organisation Address. (blocked out his zip code)
Organisation Address. (blocked state)
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES
and for dougmcmullan.com
Registrant:
Doug McMullan
***(blocked addy)
***(blocked city,state)
United States
edited to change internic.org to internic.net I'm sorta anal about that stuff
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notinKansasanymore
That said, the "comfort zone" thing is kind of creepy. Some of the comfort zones that The Way overstepped were things like shyness speaking in front of people, or an unwillingness to work on the grounds crew, or stuff like that, which was just part of leadership training. But some of the comfort zones that The Way overstepped were pretty darn personal, and private, and sexual, so perhaps to avoid comparisons, this new group might want to clarify that one a bit.
Hey, they may do things right, or they may do things wrong. But I don't believe that they're setting out with "wrong" in mind.
I'll pray for them.
If you're still carrying around so much hurt (rightfully so, in many cases) that you don't want to pray for them, then I'm kind of thinking that praying for them might do you even more good than it does them.
Just a thought.
Peace.
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rhino
I really just have to laugh at the whole J2P2 thang ... this is like the twi version of rabbit redux?
OK, I don't really remember the book, but somehow it seems fitting ...
hey ... I'm on a farm ... it could be a excellent adventure ... but just from the brief look of things ... I don't think they're cookin with gas ... the whole 24 hour a day submission, we can send you packin on a whim thing is pretty "creepy" too.
It gets pretty dark out there in the country ... are there neighbors they can run to?
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frank123lol
Hmm..Neighbors they can run to?Ole Miississip What you doin thar boy? Or you yanks
doin out here in the south.
They picked the location it is h#ll and gone part of miss.
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Ham
Guilty as charged brother.. but I don't call them LEGITIMATE.
I'm SUPPOSED to be some kind of "elder" in the "church", am I not?
I'm pulling out the wild card here.
Tough "crappies" as they say..
They know exactly who I am. That being said, I don't hate them. Far to the contrary.
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frank123lol
Lack of understanding?Well when someone has spent over 25 years in
said twidom land I would say they have an "understanding"
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waysider
Funny how those exact thoughts ran through my mind 30+ years ago as I found myself living in a commune in the middle of Podunk, USA---(Except you can replace "they" with "I")
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Found Smith County, MS on Wikipedia. It's county seat is Raleigh, with other towns and villages being Mize, Taylorsville, Polkville, Sylvarena, Burns, and Summerland. 3 of them are the same as in North Carolina and Summerland reminds me of Michael Jackson's Neverland mixed with hints of ROA. :huh: ^_^ -_- <_< :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :ph34r:
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brideofjc
Yes Ex, reproved, admonished, slammed me down on the spiritual ground
raised HIS eyebrow at me like a stern Mama
and my knees turned to Jell-o and I quivered all over
and said meekly,
Yes, Sir!
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brideofjc
Or Living in the Way Wonderland!
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excathedra
thank you for response
i wonder why ?
did he tell you why ?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Same thing happened to me after I drank 8 shots of Dewer's scotch whiskey...
...especially the knees turning to jello and quivering all over. I was trying to get home after a party in south Chicago and...well, never mind.
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brideofjc
I knew why
Sometimes, sister....I have a very dry wit and a lot of times if I'm on a roll...well,
it can turn into something not too nice. We'll just leave it at that.
#8....got to have a new beginning did you?????
something like....OUT with the old????
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GrouchoMarxJr
I guess I was getting a little
...
When you think about it, most of us here could probably find an old farm and do the same thing...Let's face it, Wierwille ran a good con game and there's folks who have decided to use the same "corps training concept" that they were taught.
Are they sincere?...could be...but the question remains...what qualifies them to be "Christian leaders"? If they are recycling Vic's devious doctrines, no thanks, no church with you boy.
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mstar1
Gees Groucho, his grampy said he saw snow about 60 years ago and he has the same name--isnt that enough?
the next thing you'll want is a genuine degree from an accredited university or maybe even a real resume
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Ham
I kinda view like a "survivor" series, staged for SOMEONE'S "amusement"..
maybe they think they are training these kids to be able to function in hard times, extreme circumstances. The only problem with this, the kids KNOW it's just a "drill".. they are often competitive enough to stick it out through the hazing, anticipating the million bucks at the end of the ride. Or position. Or supposedly shared power.
Slap all of the christian veneer you want to on it, I think you are bringing out the worst in human nature and behavior.
I imagine they'll play for part of the "training" old vic's advanced class 81 live teaching, how after receiving this great "revelation", if you don't kuckle under, the world's gonna try to buy you out, intimidate, smear, and if all else fails, finally try to get the government to put you six feet under..
wouldn't suprise me.
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doojable
The sad part is that you don't even need a farm. A farm makes for a closer analogy to the old TWI - but any old house with some land and a lot of work to be done will do.
I watched it happen. A house, some land, before you knew it ABS was being collected to make improvements "so the Word-a-Gawd would move." Lots of man hours were put into finish work, a gargage got turned into a playroom teaching room, extra land was purchased (but no one really knew why) it was sad and sick too.
Of course, then people were moved in to help pay for it all....ummm sit at the feet of the masters...
You know...maybe that schtick was more effective than we've given it credit. After all, wasn't vp the original master at getting stuff and having someone else pay for it and do the work?
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Ham
Then there's always the "benefits" of being on a self-appointed "board', along with all of the 501C advantages..
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Ham
It almost reminds me of the Mark Twain story of Tom Sawyer, conning the kids on the block to whitewash the fence.. and pay to do so as well..
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DontWorryBeHappy
hi fellow greasespotters!..........happy st. patrick's day!
in response to groucho's question a few posts above, "what qualifies them to be 'christian leaders' "..............here's a few of those qualifications..........
Victor Wierwille Bio:
Where I Came From: Niceville, Florida – I just graduated from the University of West Florida in Pensacola
Why I’m a F.L.: I wanted to be involved and pushing forward in the things of God with people who are motivated and want to do the same thing – those are the people I wanted to be around.
Coolest Part of Being Here: Being so involved with the members of the Body of Christ and seeing the Body operate the way it was designed to.
Favorite Scripture: I John 3:20-22 – having confidence towards God, because when you have confidence, you’re not condemning yourself, you can receive from God – you’re not afraid to talk to Him.
Music Style: Country, but mainly the more traditional country and Southern rock.
On a Bad Day, I: Bar-B-Q. On a good day, I bar-b-q. It gets you just right.
Ultimate Bar-B-Q Guests: Jesus Christ, my brother and my grandfather.
What I Don’t Like: People picking on my friends.
this is from the cff fellowlaborers link at the "official" cffm website..............as far as the kind of "in depth" biblical teaching s.o.w.e.r.s. volunteers can expect, here's an example of young victor's teaching ability........
http://www.fellowlaborers.org/2006/11/30/g...ctor-wierwille/
some excerpts from the above teaching exemplify the fine training in biblical exegesis that young victor will be "tapping into" in order to help his s.o.w.e.r.s. "aquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness"...........
"Basically everyone wants to be righteous before God. Therefore, they try to work out their own righteousness and do works that make themselves look righteous. These actions include confessing sins and following the Ten Commandments. However, good works do not make a person righteous. Righteousness comes from God through the faith of Jesus Christ."
"The righteousness of God is given to everyone who believes (every believer). It is not by the cross you bear, but by the cross that Christ bore for you."We were made the righteousness of God. Some people teach that you can be righteous one minute and then become unrighteous the next minute. This is not true. Once God makes you righteous, you are forever stamped “RIGHTEOUS.” You cannot earn it. God just made you that way when you received holy spirit. Praise God!"
"The sin problem no longer exists. It was settled in Jesus Christ. Now it is only a matter of renewing the mind back to the truth. You no longer need to fear, worry, or feel unworthy! You can have that confidence that you are worthy through Christ Jesus!"
so, for those of you "worried" that maybe the sins of the grandfather may be repeated by the grandson, fuhgetaboudit!!!............"THE SIN PROBLEN NO LONGER EXISTS"..............we've taken care of that for you folks!!!..........."No worry, fear, guilt, or any other lie from this world can defeat you because you know all these things were overcome by way of Jesus Christ and that you have been made righteous. When you realize this truth from God’s Word, you will then have confidence to “come boldly unto the throne of grace…” (Hebrews 4:16)."!!!............."worry, fear, guilt"..........why they're just "lie(s) from this world" and they exist only to "defeat you"............and, btw.........stop with those darn questions too, won't you??..........
in case we run into any "tough verses" or concepts, here's an example of the fine training cffm provides it's fellowlaborers in the "principles of biblical research"............
2 Responses to “Gospel of Freedom and Deliverance - Victor Wierwille”
Victor Says:
March 11th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Hello and God bless you!
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him [Christ] not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
In the latter part of the verse, what or whose faith is “by faith” referring to? Our faith/believing or the faith/believing of Jesus Christ?
Thank you in advance for your help!
Love in Christ,
Victor
March 11th, 2008 at 9:10 pm Hi Victor!
Off the top of my head I’d say that I think it is our faith/believing.
I think that earlier in the verse “the faith of Christ” possibly refers to our faith that we have through Holy Spirit. that is to say, it’s the same faith that Jesus Christ.
But like I said, that was top of my head and deserves more studying to be sure.
nice to see our old friend nathan friedly is still an avid user of the internet!!..........guess the derailed thread he abandoned here at the greasespot is obviously not important in his scheme of things!!..........gotta keep those sowers current on the latest biblcal research "ditties" coming forth from the cffm vaults!!
i hope this helps you all in your evaluation of whether or not you can move far enough out of your "comfort zone" and join up!!!!............hope this helps to answer your question groucho!!!...........sure answers some of mine!!!..........................................peace.
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brideofjc
Sad, to say Ham, the world does just that and it's not a bit humorous in the least.
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waysider
(Excerpted from the ancient fellow laborer history vaults.)
waysider Bio
Why I'm a F.L.: I'm stuck in the middle of Podunk, USA with a beater car that has bald tires and an empty gas tank.
I've got five bucks to my name---no phone---no money for the pay phone.
No prospects for employment back home even if I hitch a ride back.
I left home as a leader and look forward to returning as a failure in the eyes of my friends and family.
But, heck fire, the Debuhl will probably kill me before I get there anyhow.
Favorite scripture: All things are temporary.
Favorite music style: The stuff I used to write before they sucked the creativity out of my soul and replaced it with stuff that was "Right On".
Coolest part of being here:(See favorite scripture)
Well, he!!----- At least there's an unlimited supply of familia.
(As long as I pay my weekly "Manna" fee.)
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Ham
actually, in my most fanatical days, I didn't see it. The "world" maybe disregarded, made a LITTLE light of it, or simply were annoyed by my persistance, but no, they never tried to get the government to run a steamroller over me on main street.
Nor did they try to offer me a $120,000/year cushy job at the local chemical company if I'd supposedly keep my mouth shut..
Persecution can and does happen, I'm sure. But I think this little teaching did little more than get us to circle our wagons closer around the vicster's campfire..
it's like.. "and class, remember this.. the first thing you may hear from those outside da walls.. "you're NUTS"...don't believe them.."
Edited by HamLink to comment
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