The New Corps~ sorta

[shazdancer]

The slogan for the program is "It Is Written," just like it was for the Way Corps. But what is written on the SOWERS website is exactly what gives me pause, and what is written there is all I have to go on.

If they had any attention to detail, they (and anyone thinking of joining them) should have noticed:

• "The S.O.W.E.R.S. program is full time 24/7. (4 hours work/4 hours study per day, plus various challenging program opportunities and projects)" sounds like they are giving themselves permission to interrupt your sleep or any private time you have for projects they haven't even thought of yet.
  
• "Program to be administered on an honor basis. Any volunteer may be dismissed at any time and/or program may be cancelled at the sole discretion of those charged with oversight" sounds like they can send you packing at any moment, with no redress. The whole program might get cancelled even if you didn't do anything wrong. You might want to have enough savings stashed that you won't be homeless if this happens. If you think it can't happen, talk to those who it did happen to, once upon a time.
  
• "If you are unable to do things that are outside of your comfort zone, then this is not for you" tells me that they have already decided that they plan to make you UNcomfortable, on purpose, and see if you can take it. Since "It Is Written" is the motto, I'd like to see a chapter and verse where planned hardship in order to toughen up believers was ever part of a Biblical leadership training. I can think of plenty of times when times were tough and the believers endured, but none where such things were planned as a way to strengthen others.
  

For that matter, I don't see a Bible verse or a note of caring or concern in anything written on that site. I don't know those people, but I would think that their loving intent would naturally exude out of what they are writing about a project of this magnitude. And I just don't see it on what is written.

-- Shaz

Edited March 14, 2008 by shazdancer

[rhino]

huh?

is this some kind of a joke??

a sixth grader can put up a better website than this!

write a paragraph on what your site is about, list 5 goals on a separate page, and throw up some random pics...

this can't possibly be a serious endeavor...

it looks foolish and sounds foolish...

The tools for making a web site have gotten a lot better .. I remember writing all the html code like ten years ago, but haven't played with the stuff lately. I did like the way the goals floated in .. but so what, they don't really say how they will be trained ... 4 hours work, then 4 hours tapes, then 4 more hours work special projects ...

That is what I don't quite get ... it is not an outreach program, and there is no indication anyone has any credentials for real training. Why would someone go give up a year of their life to be under control of some average joes out in the woods?

It would be interesting to hear what the rap is to try to sell people on this thang. When V1P1 started things, he did at least have some training and had some experience. This offers no means to accomplish those lofty corps goals ... just the opportunity to get in on the ground floor ... of improving someone else's property.

Do they have any takers yet?

[Ham]

Program to be administered on an honor basis

Yep.. and supposedly to be administered or coordinated by a "young man" who barely past the stage of growing peach fuzz. What are they thinking?

What if a volunteer gets hurt? They really don't have the resources to steamroll them like they did in twi. Even a fifty page itemized signed hold harmless agreement won't save them, if proven negligent.

From what I see, they have:

NO professionally trained staff

not even someone who can render first aid..

no one trained as to know psychologically what they are doing to the recruits..

Not a SINGLE person on staff with a master's degree, in ANYTHING..

Only one with a bachellor's that I am aware of..

NO oversight. Zero accountability.

I guess... well "they" say, "work will set you free"..

I think if successful, they'll run cff into the ground.. if that's where the "leaders and workers" will be "sent".

[coolchef]

hey that pic of the bus....could it be cornfield vic's motor coach in disguise?????

Edited March 14, 2008 by coolchef

[Jim]

huh?

is this some kind of a joke??

a sixth grader can put up a better website than this!

Well, it is consistent with standing wayfers and the internet.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

I am surprised that D**g McM*ll*n is involved with this, and John Paul Wierwille also helping out kind of shocks me as well, especially after Craig and Rosie treated them. :blink: :huh: :wacko:

[Ham]

I wonder if they feel "entitled" to give others the same treatment they got..

[Rocky]

I wonder if they feel "entitled" to give others the same treatment they got..

I wonder if they feel like they could do a better job keeping faithful to the stated intent than TWI did?

THAT's what I think they probably want to try to do.

And IF they get any takers, I hope they figure it out before anyone gets hurt seriously.

Otherwise, I don't care what they do with it.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Rocky, I thought more highly of JP, Sarah, Kevin than what is now happening. It saddens and sickens me, but I guess they "can't go beyond what they were taught". I pity them, had much higher hopes and respect for them, now not so sure.

[Ham]

I wonder if they feel like they could do a better job keeping faithful to the stated intent than TWI did?

I suggest the stated intent was flawed to begin with. I think they are starting on the same foot.

How can it then be any different? A lot of the programs were slipshod nonsense to begin with..

Before the big bait and switch, the corpse was supposed to somehow produce MINISTRIES. It was like a fraternity- live through the hazing, stick it out.. and you're in the "in" crowd..

Some good people came out of it, but what did the corps REALLY produce? I saw several otherwise normal human beings turned into bitter, arrogant mog wanabes who thought they could spot spirits under a rock at forty paces. Thought they knew the bible better than the rest of the civilized world.

Some I knew came out feeling ENTITLED to sit as leadership, or judge.. and you'd BETTER listen..

Some brought the same kind of harshness, bullying and hazing they were exposed to to the people on the field who supported them.

I think it was momentus, on steroids.

It's the same old slip-shod operation. "Let's just get things a going, then we'll figure stuff out.."

What happened to the "more abundant life being in the DETAILS"?

Too busy for something so trivial I guess..

[Ham]

I wonder what they've promised the inductees if they live through a year and a half of hazing..

it's like.. it's the price of being on the top tier of the club.

It's the way grandpappy did it.. the way pappy did it.. that's the way it's ALWAYS been, right?

SOMEBODY has to break the cycle of spiritual abuse..

Rocky, I thought more highly of JP, Sarah, Kevin than what is now happening. It saddens and sickens me, but I guess they "can't go beyond what they were taught". I pity them, had much higher hopes and respect for them, now not so sure.

I echo these sentiments...

[Rocky]

I suggest the stated intent was flawed to begin with. I think they are starting on the same foot.

How can it then be any different? A lot of the programs were slipshod nonsense to begin with..

Before the big bait and switch, the corpse was supposed to somehow produce MINISTRIES. It was like a fraternity- live through the hazing, stick it out.. and you're in the "in" crowd..

Some good people came out of it, but what did the corps REALLY produce? I saw several otherwise normal human beings turned into bitter, arrogant mog wanabes who thought they could spot spirits under a rock at forty paces. Thought they knew the bible better than the rest of the civilized world.

Some I knew came out feeling ENTITLED to sit as leadership, or judge.. and you'd BETTER listen..

Some brought the same kind of harshness, bullying and hazing they were exposed to to the people on the field who supported them.

I think it was momentus, on steroids.

It's the same old slip-shod operation. "Let's just get things a going, then we'll figure stuff out.."

What happened to the "more abundant life being in the DETAILS"?

Too busy for something so trivial I guess..

Just curious, Ham... how much of your view on the way corps is from your experience IN the program?

And I think just about everybody already knows that you HAVE SUGGESTED emphatically that the stated intent was flawed to begin with.

How much do you have to say for YOU to believe that you've actually made your point (that YOU BELIEVE the intent is flawed)?

Or do you believe it is your God given responsibility to prevent the Sowers program from even taking place?

Frankly, my impression of your incessant zeal on this subject, and that you seem not to believe you've made your point, is that you have as serious of a lack of understanding of legitimate social and/or emotional boundaries as you claim TWI has had.

I'm certainly NOT saying TWI was good at understanding and honoring boundaries. Just that it might be a problem with YOU too, if you can't recognize where your reasonable right to comment on the Sowers program ends and the McMullen's responsibility before God and the people that he recruits begins.

[Ham]

How much do you have to say for YOU to believe that you've actually made your point (that YOU BELIEVE the intent is flawed)?

maybe when I have the proper clue that I've gotten through the "right" person or persons.

until then, there's a sour feeling in my stomach about this.

Or do you believe it is your God given responsibility to prevent the Sowers program from even taking place?

I'd like to see a little bit of intelligence, REAL qualifications, and accountability, from those who RUN the thing. Not a huff of arrogance. "We's too GOOD to need edjycation.."

I'd like to see the "point man" just plain GROW UP a little bit..

I asked questions NICELY, three times.

[Ham]

The real disappointment, at least to me, I see part of their justification of this as a contrived method to "move" a sluggishly growing ministry. Why? Are you comparing yourselves among yourselves, looking to the Indian counterpart that SEEMINGLY is getting "results" head and shoulder above YOU? "We oughta be seeing the same kind of results.." "it HAS to work.." Really?

I view it as trying to fix an old "problem" with the same old tools. a "sense knowledge" endeavor where by God, God's will be done and we'll see to it.." attitude.

Ten kazillion people really are a "problem" that you DON'T want to have..

What are you going to do with them? Oh.. we'll have to ORGANIZE.. twigs, branches, limbs..

Personally, I think that if indeed you DO have growth, the kids who will be doing the actual work don't need to be taught to be "extreme", but to LOVE.

[Ham]

I don't think you can have the "phenomenal" growth that der way had in the sixties and seventies, using the same methods, WITHOUT THE SAME CONSEQUENCES.

The legalism and austerity you build in your structure will eat you alive..

[brideofjc]

That rusty old truck doesn't have anything on this beastie:

Is that in your backyard, Ham?

Could it be?The merry pranksters bus from The Electric acid koolaid test?

I read the book say back in1974 Thought it was pretty cool.

Maybe thats why I painted my pinto that many colors before I went wow(One of the twiggies painted it a chocloate brown said the car was too wild,Hey he painted it for free)

You actually are owning up to having owned a Pinto?

It didn't go KABOOM?

[brideofjc]

The real disappointment, at least to me, I see part of their justification of this as a contrived method to "move" a sluggishly growing ministry. Why? Are you comparing yourselves among yourselves, looking to the Indian counterpart that SEEMINGLY is getting "results" head and shoulder above YOU? "We oughta be seeing the same kind of results.." "it HAS to work.." Really?

I view it as trying to fix an old "problem" with the same old tools. a "sense knowledge" endeavor where by God, God's will be done and we'll see to it.." attitude.

Ten kazillion people really are a "problem" that you DON'T want to have..

What are you going to do with them? Oh.. we'll have to ORGANIZE.. twigs, branches, limbs..

Personally, I think that if indeed you DO have growth, the kids who will be doing the actual work don't need to be taught to be "extreme", but to LOVE.

I was going to post about their "spiritual goals" and then I was going to upload their pics and make comments upon it, when the Holy Spirit slammed me. I hit the back button on my browser and cancelled my post.

I do not know in actuality where this farm is located in MS, but you mention Ham "I see part of their justification of this as a contrived method to "move" a sluggishly growing ministry" and now I'm wondering about the "lean" website.

I am also not familiar about the laws in MS concerning religious organizations, but I'm wondering if this is a hastily put together website in an attempt to keep a 501c(3)

status so that their "farm" will be tax-exempt?

Anybody here from MS and familiar with any of their state laws concerning these things?

As far as detailing what the enrollee will receive, it's pretty sparse if you ask me, and rather suspicious that it doesn't list a physical address, nor even a post office box to show that it is a "real" place.

[Ham]

That would suggest to me that they don't exactly want the general public to know where it is at.

[frank123lol]

You actually are owning up to having owned a Pinto?

Never blew up,Though it did get side swiped by a dump truck

[brideofjc]

You actually are owning up to having owned a Pinto?

Never blew up,Though it did get side swiped by a dump truck

But "Off-Topics" are so fun sometimes and relieve any stress from reading these thing-a-ma-jobs!

[jen-o]

I did like the way the goals floated in ..

i don't see no floating goals... i must be missing something... :blink:

well, okay, i guess this is a "serious" endeavor, or a half-serious endeavor, or an endeavor to keep the 501c(3) status... (that last one makes the most sense)

i just can't imagine anyone in their right mind signing up for this 24/7 program with its EXTREMELY vague description, its tone of "over-control", and its bizarre photographs...

it sounds like: let's see how much we can micro-manage the lives of 12 people 24/7 while we isolate them out in the middle of nowhere...

the Lord Jesus Christ is NOT behind this kind of "program"...

Edited March 15, 2008 by jen-o

[waysider]

I'm not sure about the goals "floating", but if you look around the site a bit, you will find a declaration of their "goals".

It is identical(as far as I remember) to the Way Corps goals.

[excathedra]

i think the goal are identical

bride, the holy spirit slammed you ?????

--

did i read on here this "program" is backed by an offshoot ?

i guess it doesn't really matter

crazy is crazy

[Twinky]

Hey Excie, you don't have to go in that horrible old motor coach

In fact you could stand outside it with a flaming sword and make damn sure nobody else does either.

[bfh]

Just for some clarification:

There are two websites for SOWERS -

This is the "fancy" website with the "floating" goals and the

photo slideshow with musical accompaniment -

http://www.dougmcmullan.com/sowers.html

This is the plain vanilla website -

http://sowersonline.com/default.aspx

Both sites have the same recycled 5 corpse principles for "goals",

and the same contact person, V2P2.

Looks to me like they are making a fairly serious attempt

to market their SOWER program.