I drifted away in about 1990 or '91 so I really can't address that era.
One thing that is important to understand is that these abuses do not represent what typically happened on a local level.
In fact, until I started frequenting GreaseSpot, I was unaware of most of this myself.
From the standpoint of awareness, one could probably draw some parallels to the Catholic Church. In other words, the vast majority of Catholic parishioners probably had no idea about the scandals that have recently come to light or at least the depths to which they reached. There is a young man who, having grown up in The Way, started a web site on which he reflected on his past. The site is no longer active but it is still accessible. You can get there through this link: http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php It's a very enlightening view of how a child sees all this on a day-to-day basis.
The whole thing makes more sense if you view it as an MLM (which it was) than as a religious group.
Hey Waysider, Maybe, I'm using the wrong phrases. I thought that Christian Educational Services and Cortright Fellowships were "splilnter groups". I though these were people that left TWI and started their own "fellowships" When people have left, where do they turn to "worship on Sundays"?
Hey Waysider, Maybe, I'm using the wrong phrases. I thought that Christian Educational Services and Cortright Fellowships were "splilnter groups". I though these were people that left TWI and started their own "fellowships" When people have left, where do they turn to "worship on Sundays"?
You are not using the wrong phrases.
The thing you have to understand about a cult is, that, unlike a conventional church, it's not a "worship on Sunday" kind of thing.
It consumes your every minute, 24/7---365. It is at the center of everything you decide, such as what kind of car to buy (can I fit all the A/V eqt. in the trunk?) to the apartment you rent.(Will there be enough off-street parking for fellowship attendees?) to the job offers you consider.(Will I be required to work hours that conflict with ministry functions?) And yes, a "splinter group" is one that has spun off of TWI but has maintained the same essential tenets and practices. There was a "splinter" group in Central Ohio that split off as early as the early 1970's .On his web site(The Writing Machine) Christian Cloud Abraham talks about what it was like to have to move from city to city as his mother was reassigned every year or so.
I looked up New Knoxville on Google. It's a pretty small place. Is it fair to say that if you lived in that town, you were part of the organzation? Were/are there other churches in the town? If one belongs to the organization, is it "public" or general knowlegde. Or do the go out of their way to keep "outsiders" from knowing they are members?
It was a cleverly disguised Multi Level Marketing scheme. (MLM)
At the heart of it was a "product" called Power For Abundant Living, a 36 hour long "class" that promised to answer all your questions about the meaning of life and how to succeed.(The vast majority of its contents were plagiarized from relatively unknown sources.) It used the Bible to give it a false appearance of credibility and sincerity.
In reality, the "class" was a recruitment tool designed to enlist volunteers for "the cause".(Word Over The World) They(TWI) practiced manipulative mind control, thought replacement and behavioral modification techniques to extract commitment and devotion from followers.
If you go to the home page, you can listen to the two podcasts about Losing The Way which will give you a peek in the window of one follower's journey. Also, while you are there, I recommend listening to The Law Of Believing: No God required. The so called "law" of believing is one of the core tenets of The Way.
edited for this:
Organizationally, they were supposedly structured like a tree.
(ie: A person is a leaf, several leaves are a twig, several twigs are a branch(usually all the twigs in a city), several branches make up a limb (usually a state), a country is a trunk and all is designed to serve the "root" which was the headquarters (Int. HQ) in New Knoxville, Ohio. Almost all the money traveled a one-way path to the "root". VP Wierwille was the mastermind and ultimate leader. He set himself up to be "The Man Of God For Our Day And Time" (MOGFODAT) and claimed God had spoken directly to him in an audible voice, revealing nuances of the scriptures that had not been known for thousands of years, which were , for the most part, really plagiarized materials and even cleverly disguised propaganda from anti-Semitic groups and white supremacy groups.)
And I actually bought into it----*sigh*
Thats an excellent summary, and if ANYTHING its putting it mildly....
I looked up New Knoxville on Google. It's a pretty small place. Is it fair to say that if you lived in that town, you were part of the organzation? Were/are there other churches in the town? If one belongs to the organization, is it "public" or general knowlegde. Or do the go out of their way to keep "outsiders" from knowing they are members?
A large part of TWI's activity was based on recruitment through door-to-door witnessing, mall witnessing, public recruitment meetings (called Public EX.'s) etc. For that reason, there was a sense of animosity (for lack of a better word) by the locals toward TWI. Add to that the fact that TWI "members" had a tendency to be condescending toward locals because, as far as they were concerned, the locals were not part of "the one true household". There are local churches in the area but, again, the coexistence is/was a strained relationship. TWI claims that one can not become a "member" because you are supposedly free to come and go. Thus, they supposedly keep no membership files. That whole line of reason is a twisted sense of nonsense as they closely monitor attendance and financial offerings. The whole object is to bring more and more recruits into the fold who will thus bring more income to the organization. It's "required" that you give at least 15 to 20% of your gross income(last estimate I heard) to be considered in good standing. So, It's hard to hide your involvement and actively sell the "product" at the same time. Members will sometimes resort to what I consider a form of deception to lure in recruits. Young, single members will feign romantic interest in a recruit to lure them to fellowships where they will be "love bombed" and made to feel special. Then the indoctrination begins
TWI claims that one can not become a "member" because you are supposedly free to come and go. Thus, they supposedly keep no membership files. That whole line of reason is a twisted sense of nonsense as they closely monitor attendance and financial offerings.
EXACTLY. If you were "standing" in the twi Household you can actually call HQ and ask for information on whether or not an individual is "standing" "not standing" (meaning not bearing any obvious animosity towards twi, or simply never kicked out" or "Mark and Avoid" (meaning their hatred for twi is obvious, or they got kicked out.) You can also get people's addresses who are standing if you wanted to... How's that for not keeping membership files????
mmm..., so it sounds like a very close knit community (TWI), So on a Sunday morning I could not drive into the parking lot for fellowship and get out of the car and just walk in, like I could at my local Catholci church? You have to be "invited"? If I had a neighbor who was a member, would it be a common knowldge. Would he talk about it at all, or would it be a "deep dark secret" type of thing? What about adutl children that grew up in it. Would there friends know?
mmm..., so it sounds like a very close knit community (TWI), So on a Sunday morning I could not drive into the parking lot for fellowship and get out of the car and just walk in, like I could at my local Catholci church? You have to be "invited"? If I had a neighbor who was a member, would it be a common knowldge. Would he talk about it at all, or would it be a "deep dark secret" type of thing? What about adutl children that grew up in it. Would there friends know?
I don't know how it is now but I never EVER desire to go back to that place,unless it is to SPIT ON VPS GRAVE!!!
mmm..., so it sounds like a very close knit community (TWI), So on a Sunday morning I could not drive into the parking lot for fellowship and get out of the car and just walk in, like I could at my local Catholci church? You have to be "invited"? If I had a neighbor who was a member, would it be a common knowldge. Would he talk about it at all, or would it be a "deep dark secret" type of thing? What about adutl children that grew up in it. Would there friends know?
At one time they were so worried about being infiltrated by ex-members, you would not have been allowed inside the doors without a proper nametag on your chest, or unless you were accompanied by someone who had one. Even then, as a guest you would have been expected to sign the registry and get a temporary nametag. But I believe that has changed. I think that you could, indeed, just drive up on a Sunday and walk in the doors to their afternoon service. As long as you arrived at the right time, dressed the right way, and moved about the place like you weren't a stranger, you would probably attract no undue attention. But you should expect the person sitting next to you in the auditorium to ask who you are and where you are from, and if they picked up on the fact that you were not a twi-fellowshipper, but someone just "checking the place out" you would get a good witnessing-to at least, and may even be "guided" around after that, not allowed to roam freely.
If you had a neighbor who was a member, your knowledge of it would depend on if they were a happy member or not. If they still believe everything twi teaches and are happy doing the fellowship thing, you would know about it because they would definitely spend time trying to befriend you in order to witness to you and get you coming to their fellowships and classes. If they were not happy with twi but still a member, chances are good you wouldn't know because deep down they are thinking "I wouldn't want my worst enemy to get involved with this group... )
Then there are ex-folks like us, who couldn't set foot on the property without being recognized and questioned!!
I am guessing that you want to know about the neighbor situation in NK because you googled it.... If someone lives in NK and belongs to TWI, then it is common knowledge... There would be no way to deny it. If you meant just any neighbor in any other town, then I guess that would be your decision to let people know.
Side note: New Knoxville and TWI are separate. Please don't hold it against our little town because of THEM.
I wouldn't hold it against the town. I'm trying to get an over view of the complete situation. What is the % of people that live or lived in the town assoicated with TWI? 25%, 55%? There was no listing on the town's home page for them as a church. Is the correct terminogy "fellowhsip"? How would I go about finding the "closest one to attend"? Most churhces have signs in from of them with the name, minter, and sevice schedule. I would think that these would too.
I wouldn't hold it against the town. I'm trying to get an over view of the complete situation. What is the % of people that live or lived in the town assoicated with TWI? 25%, 55%? There was no listing on the town's home page for them as a church. Is the correct terminogy "fellowhsip"? How would I go about finding the "closest one to attend"? Most churhces have signs in from of them with the name, minter, and sevice schedule. I would think that these would too.
They should have a skull and cross bones warning people YOU 'll BE SORRY!!!
I wouldn't hold it against the town. I'm trying to get an over view of the complete situation. What is the % of people that live or lived in the town assoicated with TWI? 25%, 55%? There was no listing on the town's home page for them as a church. Is the correct terminogy "fellowhsip"? How would I go about finding the "closest one to attend"? Most churhces have signs in from of them with the name, minter, and sevice schedule. I would think that these would too.
Bucks4now
It's not a church in the typical sense. It's a cult. New Knoxville is where the corporate offices are located. (I left almost 20 years ago so my information may be outdated.) For the most part, they meet in small groups(once called "twigs", now called "household fellowships") in private homes scattered hither and yon around the globe.(But the money still goes to HQ in New Knoxviille) If you are serious about attending a fellowship meeting, you can probably call or email them and request that information. Just remember, it's an MLM organization so they are not likely to let a sales prospect simply slip away.
So, to answer your question about percentages, most active members are likely to live somewhere OTHER than New Knoxville.
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waysider
Hi, bucks4now
I drifted away in about 1990 or '91 so I really can't address that era.
One thing that is important to understand is that these abuses do not represent what typically happened on a local level.
In fact, until I started frequenting GreaseSpot, I was unaware of most of this myself.
From the standpoint of awareness, one could probably draw some parallels to the Catholic Church. In other words, the vast majority of Catholic parishioners probably had no idea about the scandals that have recently come to light or at least the depths to which they reached. There is a young man who, having grown up in The Way, started a web site on which he reflected on his past. The site is no longer active but it is still accessible. You can get there through this link: http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php It's a very enlightening view of how a child sees all this on a day-to-day basis.
The whole thing makes more sense if you view it as an MLM (which it was) than as a religious group.
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bucks4now
Hey Waysider, Maybe, I'm using the wrong phrases. I thought that Christian Educational Services and Cortright Fellowships were "splilnter groups". I though these were people that left TWI and started their own "fellowships" When people have left, where do they turn to "worship on Sundays"?
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waysider
You are not using the wrong phrases.
The thing you have to understand about a cult is, that, unlike a conventional church, it's not a "worship on Sunday" kind of thing.
It consumes your every minute, 24/7---365. It is at the center of everything you decide, such as what kind of car to buy (can I fit all the A/V eqt. in the trunk?) to the apartment you rent.(Will there be enough off-street parking for fellowship attendees?) to the job offers you consider.(Will I be required to work hours that conflict with ministry functions?) And yes, a "splinter group" is one that has spun off of TWI but has maintained the same essential tenets and practices. There was a "splinter" group in Central Ohio that split off as early as the early 1970's .On his web site(The Writing Machine) Christian Cloud Abraham talks about what it was like to have to move from city to city as his mother was reassigned every year or so.
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bucks4now
I looked up New Knoxville on Google. It's a pretty small place. Is it fair to say that if you lived in that town, you were part of the organzation? Were/are there other churches in the town? If one belongs to the organization, is it "public" or general knowlegde. Or do the go out of their way to keep "outsiders" from knowing they are members?
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Steveo
Thats an excellent summary, and if ANYTHING its putting it mildly....
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waysider
A large part of TWI's activity was based on recruitment through door-to-door witnessing, mall witnessing, public recruitment meetings (called Public EX.'s) etc. For that reason, there was a sense of animosity (for lack of a better word) by the locals toward TWI. Add to that the fact that TWI "members" had a tendency to be condescending toward locals because, as far as they were concerned, the locals were not part of "the one true household". There are local churches in the area but, again, the coexistence is/was a strained relationship. TWI claims that one can not become a "member" because you are supposedly free to come and go. Thus, they supposedly keep no membership files. That whole line of reason is a twisted sense of nonsense as they closely monitor attendance and financial offerings. The whole object is to bring more and more recruits into the fold who will thus bring more income to the organization. It's "required" that you give at least 15 to 20% of your gross income(last estimate I heard) to be considered in good standing. So, It's hard to hide your involvement and actively sell the "product" at the same time. Members will sometimes resort to what I consider a form of deception to lure in recruits. Young, single members will feign romantic interest in a recruit to lure them to fellowships where they will be "love bombed" and made to feel special. Then the indoctrination begins
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JavaJane
EXACTLY. If you were "standing" in the twi Household you can actually call HQ and ask for information on whether or not an individual is "standing" "not standing" (meaning not bearing any obvious animosity towards twi, or simply never kicked out" or "Mark and Avoid" (meaning their hatred for twi is obvious, or they got kicked out.) You can also get people's addresses who are standing if you wanted to... How's that for not keeping membership files????
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bucks4now
mmm..., so it sounds like a very close knit community (TWI), So on a Sunday morning I could not drive into the parking lot for fellowship and get out of the car and just walk in, like I could at my local Catholci church? You have to be "invited"? If I had a neighbor who was a member, would it be a common knowldge. Would he talk about it at all, or would it be a "deep dark secret" type of thing? What about adutl children that grew up in it. Would there friends know?
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cheranne
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TheHighWay
At one time they were so worried about being infiltrated by ex-members, you would not have been allowed inside the doors without a proper nametag on your chest, or unless you were accompanied by someone who had one. Even then, as a guest you would have been expected to sign the registry and get a temporary nametag. But I believe that has changed. I think that you could, indeed, just drive up on a Sunday and walk in the doors to their afternoon service. As long as you arrived at the right time, dressed the right way, and moved about the place like you weren't a stranger, you would probably attract no undue attention. But you should expect the person sitting next to you in the auditorium to ask who you are and where you are from, and if they picked up on the fact that you were not a twi-fellowshipper, but someone just "checking the place out" you would get a good witnessing-to at least, and may even be "guided" around after that, not allowed to roam freely.
If you had a neighbor who was a member, your knowledge of it would depend on if they were a happy member or not. If they still believe everything twi teaches and are happy doing the fellowship thing, you would know about it because they would definitely spend time trying to befriend you in order to witness to you and get you coming to their fellowships and classes. If they were not happy with twi but still a member, chances are good you wouldn't know because deep down they are thinking "I wouldn't want my worst enemy to get involved with this group... )
Then there are ex-folks like us, who couldn't set foot on the property without being recognized and questioned!!
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passthetrash
I am guessing that you want to know about the neighbor situation in NK because you googled it.... If someone lives in NK and belongs to TWI, then it is common knowledge... There would be no way to deny it. If you meant just any neighbor in any other town, then I guess that would be your decision to let people know.
Side note: New Knoxville and TWI are separate. Please don't hold it against our little town because of THEM.
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bucks4now
I wouldn't hold it against the town. I'm trying to get an over view of the complete situation. What is the % of people that live or lived in the town assoicated with TWI? 25%, 55%? There was no listing on the town's home page for them as a church. Is the correct terminogy "fellowhsip"? How would I go about finding the "closest one to attend"? Most churhces have signs in from of them with the name, minter, and sevice schedule. I would think that these would too.
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cheranne
They should have a skull and cross bones warning people YOU 'll BE SORRY!!!
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waysider
Bucks4now
It's not a church in the typical sense. It's a cult. New Knoxville is where the corporate offices are located. (I left almost 20 years ago so my information may be outdated.) For the most part, they meet in small groups(once called "twigs", now called "household fellowships") in private homes scattered hither and yon around the globe.(But the money still goes to HQ in New Knoxviille) If you are serious about attending a fellowship meeting, you can probably call or email them and request that information. Just remember, it's an MLM organization so they are not likely to let a sales prospect simply slip away.
So, to answer your question about percentages, most active members are likely to live somewhere OTHER than New Knoxville.
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