Yeah, well, Oldies honey, we all knew what your answers would be before you posted.
But I suppose most folks would know that my answers would all be YES!
I have seen the movie, but not in a long time. It's about politics and spies and perceptions vs realities and what you want to do vs what you feel you have no choice in doing... it's a good movie. And in some ways it certainly does represent the no-win situation twi put many of us through. They so often taught one thing and did another that you learned not to trust your own perceptions and gut instincts.
Whenever my local leadership would try to direct what hubby and I wanted to do they would say, "Now we aren't telling you what to do, but....." and then they would list the reasons we should do it their way. And in the back of my mind I would also know that if we went ahead and did what we wanted, not following leadership's "advice" we would be put on their 'bad' list and suddenly everything we did would be questioned and scrutinized. We'd seen it happen to those around us over and over again. We didn't want it to happen to us. We did what the leadership said, even when it did us immediate harm!!!
I agree with Polar Bear... everything about my life is better now than it ever was when I was a follower of the way international. Everything.
My kids are the age I was when I became involved...oh my goodness...to think of my wonderfull kiddoes subjected to the manipulation, the exploitation, the cruelty ...oh my.
You know?? I have 3 syblings that didn`t get involved in twi. I look at their lives, I look at what they have accomplished, in short I see where I would have been had I not been side tracked for a decade and another in recovering myself.
I see that the word taught like it has never been taught since the first century...didn`t help me to become any better a person, as a matter of fact it took me a lot longer to learn to be kind, compassionate, non judgemental.
TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service.
TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service.
You know?? I have 3 syblings that didn`t get involved in twi. I look at their lives, I look at what they have accomplished, in short I see where I would have been had I not been side tracked for a decade and another in recovering myself.
I see that the word taught like it has never been taught since the first century...didn`t help me to become any better a person, as a matter of fact it took me a lot longer to learn to be kind, compassionate, non judgemental.
TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service.
rascal.......yeah, my 4 siblings never got involved in twi.
All four...........own their homes and have no mortgage payments.
All four...........are still married, no divorces.
All four...........are healthy and have successful children.
All four...........have made some good investments, etc.
At age 42......(sigh)......I left "twi's more than abundant life." Having served corps and moved every few years, it's been quite a ride to get back to some sense of FINANCIALLY-SOUND and ADULT-STYLE living.
And, there are so many STILL struggling to get their feet back under them......after the twi-detour.
My kids are the age I was when I became involved...oh my goodness...to think of my wonderfull kiddoes subjected to the manipulation, the exploitation, the cruelty ...oh my.
You know?? I have 3 siblings that didn`t get involved in twi. I look at their lives, I look at what they have accomplished, in short I see where I would have been had I not been side tracked for a decade and another in recovering myself.
I see that the word taught like it has never been taught since the first century...didn`t help me to become any better a person, as a matter of fact it took me a lot longer to learn to be kind, compassionate, non judgemental.
TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service.
As far as Oldies was concerned, only part of the last sentence mattered....
"TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service."
I repeat, please when quoting me, use my quotes in their entirety rather than pulling a partial sentence out of context to support your premiss.
I don`t blame twi for anything. I do indeed believe that there was deliberate control, manipulation, and deceit used to enforce continued participation, cooperation from the followers.
I believe that we were controlled.
There is no other explanation I can think of that would cause grown, otherwise healthy adults to submit to the abuse.
As far as Oldies was concerned, only part of a sentence mattered...
"I don't blame twi for anything."
Notice how the post BEGAN by pointing out the utter DIShonesty and lack of mutual respect
is involved in the MISrepresentation of other people by clipping parts of sentences out of
the context they needed.
Sometimes, if one is honest, one CAN find a short quote whose meaning does not change when pulled
from its context. In both of these cases, that's not the case-as everyone except Oldies can see.
How honest is this?
This honest:
Psalm 14:1
"There is no God"
=======
Can someone take true words, and selectively distort their meaning until they become a lie?
Matthew 4:5-6
"5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."
The devil quoted true words-Scripture- and selectively distorted their meaning until they became a lie.
====
Seems to me one key towards remaining a vpw supporter even AFTER learning
that his supposed unique
connection to God was simply large-scale plagiarism, and his supposed stance as a man of God concealed
a man who conspired to treat women of God as merchandise, making elaborate plans to select some as
"better" victims, separate them out, assemble a place to victimize them, an elaborate -and STANDARDIZED-
script for victimizing them, the elaborate "exit" strategy that kept some silent, and victimized those who WOULD
speak further by ostracizing them and silencing them, plus the absence of conscience it would take to even
seriously consider any of this.....
is, in turn, to follow vpw's own teachings and shut off one's OWN conscience.
Once you can manage that, the cries for help from the victims are easy to ignore,
the blood on vpw's hands washes away with a little soap and water,
and his lies and utter fraud can just be ignored.
It's the SAME absence of conscience that allows one to deliberately take honest words and twist them
into a lie.
Someone like this, when faced with someone hurt, victimized, and feeling no way out,
could easily push them back to be ground up by the machinery of the exploitation machine.
I thank my God I can't deceive like that.
Did you see the movie?
Have you every felt trapped like an animal in a cage?
Every way you would turn would lead to a dead end.
Wasn't TWI just like this.
You were told that if you left you would no longer have God's protection.
You would lose all you rewards.
Your body would be subject to the whims of the adversary.
Your finances would melt away.
You would lose all your relationships with the household of believers.
Just the oppisite is true.
My life is better very way.
I have better friends -ONES THAT I CAN ACTUALLY TRUST.
I am finanically more sound-I HAVE CARS THAT AREN'T RUSTED OUT AND A NICE HOME.
I am happier than I have been in years.-I DON'T HAVE ALL THAT GUILT TO WORRY ABOUT.
Physically I'm more relaxed and feel healthier.-(SAME AS ABOVE)
Whay a bunch of bunk. - All FEAR TACTICS
I may not be a millionaire but at least I am doing what I can to help people without taking their money.
TWI has millions they are sitting on but do nothing with it. Isn't it funny that everything they do, they want money for it. Glad they have to live with that on their conscience.
Didn't JC say to give asking nothing in return?
For many people, twi WAS like this.
I was too much a maverick at heart, too much an idealist, to stick around when they started to try to
pull those in my direction. I did a hard analysis of what was at hq, and coming from lcm's mouth,
As far as I know, there is no forum rule prohibiting the quoting of postings or partial postings from one thread to the other if it relates in some way to a post. When one of your posts blames twi for something or a variety of things, quoting your other post "I don't blame twi for anything" is fair game and speaks for itself.
If you want to play the victim card and call it "stalking", go ahead, but perhaps you should check with Paw first before making that assumption.
As far as I know, there is no forum rule prohibiting the quoting of postings or partial postings from one thread to the other if it relates in some way to a post. When one of your posts blames twi for something or a variety of things, quoting your other post "I don't blame twi for anything" is fair game and speaks for itself.
If you want to play the victim card and call it "stalking", go ahead, but perhaps you should check with Paw first before making that assumption.
I think she's entitled "to play the victim card" if you've already played the "I'm going to be a d1ck card"
and deliberately distorted the meaning of what she said, and kept on doing it.
Well, it was my hope that you would play the part of a gentleman, and purported brother and cease these dishonest tactics, without me having to whine to the moderators.
Your lack of integrity in refusing to post the entire quote in context, in a deliberate attempt to misrepresent myself and my position has been pointed out to you.
Well, it was my hope that you would play the part of a gentleman, and purported brother and cease these dishonest tactics, without me having to whine to the moderators.
Please go ahead and alert the moderators. I'd really like to know whether they feel quoting a partial post from someone is dishonest as you suggest. I'll abide by whatever ruling they decide (if any).
Please go ahead and alert the moderators. I'd really like to know whether they feel quoting a partial post from someone is dishonest as you suggest. I'll abide by whatever ruling they decide (if any).
Oldies......rascal asked you to "Please desist."
She asked you nicely.....she said "please"........why are you continuing this childish stance? She was up-front with you and wanting to handle it with YOU.....not take it to the next level.
I think that this otherwise excellent thread has been dragged far enough off course :(
Polar bear, I do indeed remember the teachings that kept me in twi. There was nothing but death waiting for me outside. I know that to disobey leadership meant that I was saying no to God...that God would bless me EVEN if they were wrong...he would honor my heart...that I couldn`t be like peter and look at the negative 5 senses stuff or I`d sink...
I remember feeling so trapped...not knowing that in corpes application that I was entering a contract...irrevocable...that if I didn`t fullfil my commitment I would die like annanias and saphira for lying to God....
I remember how broken I was when I was required to chose to abort the child that would prevent my entrance into residence.......
I remember how hopeless it all was...that it was either the childs life or live a life however short without God :(
Polar bear, Yes I did feel like an animal in a cage, hopeless, without a choice....No there were no bars on our cages, no walls in our prison, no weapons held to our head....but yet I did feel like an animal trapped.
I know that my friends felt that they had *no way oout* when the lc decided that their teenaged daughter wasn`t respectfull enough to him. They were to throw her to the streets ...when they were reluctant....they were told either do it or the whole family would be m&a d.
M&A meant that you were separated from the house hold, from God`s blessing and protection, vulnerable to become possessed, taken out...a grease spot by midnight. They had three other children who`s lives and safety that had to be considered .... yes...they felt that they had no way out, and cast their precious daughter out of her home and away from her family :(
Does anybody in hind sight, think they can see instances of the keys to the cell door being offered? Somebody standing outside of the door beckoning us out into freedom, sunshine and fresh air??
Figuratively speaking I can, I remember bracing against the door way and resistying with all of my strength....terrified that outside those door lay death and destruction as promised in our teachings.
Not only did we not feel that we were free, we actively fought to remain in our dark dank little holes :(
Those who've stayed in the dark cell well past time they KNEW it was a scam, and actually HAVE options (unlike some with relatives and family still in) remind me of the canibalistic morlocks in Well's "The Time machine"..
like.. those on top. I think they've mutated into disgusting, beastial like manipulators, sucking the life out of those under their "charge".
They are uglier as each year passes..
Today, I can honestly say I like who I am.. I wonder if they can say the same.
Those who've stayed in the dark cell well past time they KNEW it was a scam, and actually HAVE options (unlike some with relatives and family still in) remind me of the canibalistic morlocks in Well's "The Time machine"..
like.. those on top. I think they've mutated into disgusting, beastial like manipulators, sucking the life out of those under their "charge".
They are uglier as each year passes..
Today, I can honestly say I like who I am.. I wonder if they can say the same.
If you got through all the bs they indeed might not like themselves.
Alert who? What? why? Is there a pending 'terrist attack'? Do we all need to duck and cover?
Although I suppose everyone does it from time to time...me included, I think its terribly dishonest...especially, the way it was done in the post in question. I saw it and had to go back and find Rascal's posts to get the context and her meaning.
Maybe it would be better to quote the entire post and put what you want to emphsize in bold or something. That's what most do in the 'tics and tacks' forum as that way, readers know what you're talking about.
I'm not a moderator or anything, but that's my opinion. All it did was confuse us innocent bystanders by making it appear Rascal was saying something she wasn't.
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oldiesman
no
no
no
no
nono
nono
Golly that was easy.
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cheranne
yes. THE WAY INTERNATIONAL SUCKS
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TheHighWay
Yeah, well, Oldies honey, we all knew what your answers would be before you posted.
But I suppose most folks would know that my answers would all be YES!
I have seen the movie, but not in a long time. It's about politics and spies and perceptions vs realities and what you want to do vs what you feel you have no choice in doing... it's a good movie. And in some ways it certainly does represent the no-win situation twi put many of us through. They so often taught one thing and did another that you learned not to trust your own perceptions and gut instincts.
Whenever my local leadership would try to direct what hubby and I wanted to do they would say, "Now we aren't telling you what to do, but....." and then they would list the reasons we should do it their way. And in the back of my mind I would also know that if we went ahead and did what we wanted, not following leadership's "advice" we would be put on their 'bad' list and suddenly everything we did would be questioned and scrutinized. We'd seen it happen to those around us over and over again. We didn't want it to happen to us. We did what the leadership said, even when it did us immediate harm!!!
I agree with Polar Bear... everything about my life is better now than it ever was when I was a follower of the way international. Everything.
THW
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oldiesman
:o :D
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skyrider
polar bear.......I totally agree.
As noted on countless threads.......THE LONGER ONE STAYS IN TWI -----> THE GREATER THE DEPRAVITY.
And, imo.......way corps who sat thru wierwille/martindale weekly corps meetings.
........1) Public ridicule and spiritual-critiquing of the corps-of-the-week "possessed award."
........2) The "us versus them" teachings......"us" vs "the world" or "us leaders" vs "the common believer."
........3) Wierwille's "cop-out" terminology..........martindale's "greasespot" labeling.
........4) Wierwille as the military general........Don't ask how HIGH to jump........just JUMP.
........5) Wierwille dogged martindale to keep the corps "spiritually ready at all times."
........6) Bullying was the name of the game.........and spiritual abuse was the norm.
I WOULD NEVER WANT MY KIDS TO BE SUBJECTED TO SUCH CORPS INDOCTRINATION.
Yeah........SO MUCH BETTER TODAY........like in twi, I was on roller skates.......and now, driving a porche.
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rascal
Oh man...you aren`t kidding!!
My kids are the age I was when I became involved...oh my goodness...to think of my wonderfull kiddoes subjected to the manipulation, the exploitation, the cruelty ...oh my.
You know?? I have 3 syblings that didn`t get involved in twi. I look at their lives, I look at what they have accomplished, in short I see where I would have been had I not been side tracked for a decade and another in recovering myself.
I see that the word taught like it has never been taught since the first century...didn`t help me to become any better a person, as a matter of fact it took me a lot longer to learn to be kind, compassionate, non judgemental.
TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service.
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oldiesman
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skyrider
rascal.......yeah, my 4 siblings never got involved in twi.
All four...........own their homes and have no mortgage payments.
All four...........are still married, no divorces.
All four...........are healthy and have successful children.
All four...........have made some good investments, etc.
At age 42......(sigh)......I left "twi's more than abundant life." Having served corps and moved every few years, it's been quite a ride to get back to some sense of FINANCIALLY-SOUND and ADULT-STYLE living.
And, there are so many STILL struggling to get their feet back under them......after the twi-detour.
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WordWolf
As far as Oldies was concerned, only part of the last sentence mattered....
"TWI sucked our lives, our youth, our finances, and our opportunities away...at 35 we wake up and realize that we have squat to show for all of those years of diligent service."
As far as Oldies was concerned, only part of a sentence mattered...
"I don't blame twi for anything."
Notice how the post BEGAN by pointing out the utter DIShonesty and lack of mutual respect
is involved in the MISrepresentation of other people by clipping parts of sentences out of
the context they needed.
Sometimes, if one is honest, one CAN find a short quote whose meaning does not change when pulled
from its context. In both of these cases, that's not the case-as everyone except Oldies can see.
How honest is this?
This honest:
Psalm 14:1
"There is no God"
=======
Can someone take true words, and selectively distort their meaning until they become a lie?
Matthew 4:5-6
"5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."
The devil quoted true words-Scripture- and selectively distorted their meaning until they became a lie.
====
Seems to me one key towards remaining a vpw supporter even AFTER learning
that his supposed unique
connection to God was simply large-scale plagiarism, and his supposed stance as a man of God concealed
a man who conspired to treat women of God as merchandise, making elaborate plans to select some as
"better" victims, separate them out, assemble a place to victimize them, an elaborate -and STANDARDIZED-
script for victimizing them, the elaborate "exit" strategy that kept some silent, and victimized those who WOULD
speak further by ostracizing them and silencing them, plus the absence of conscience it would take to even
seriously consider any of this.....
is, in turn, to follow vpw's own teachings and shut off one's OWN conscience.
Once you can manage that, the cries for help from the victims are easy to ignore,
the blood on vpw's hands washes away with a little soap and water,
and his lies and utter fraud can just be ignored.
It's the SAME absence of conscience that allows one to deliberately take honest words and twist them
into a lie.
Someone like this, when faced with someone hurt, victimized, and feeling no way out,
could easily push them back to be ground up by the machinery of the exploitation machine.
I thank my God I can't deceive like that.
For many people, twi WAS like this.
I was too much a maverick at heart, too much an idealist, to stick around when they started to try to
pull those in my direction. I did a hard analysis of what was at hq, and coming from lcm's mouth,
and the mouths of those he selected to speak,
and found it was far from what I joined twi for.
So I left.
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rascal
Oh Thank you Word Wolf... Thank you for the psalm 14:1 reference...that describes exactly what is going on.
I am not sure, but I think following a poster from thread to thread, simply pasting comments taken out of context might be considered stalking..
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oldiesman
Rascal,
As far as I know, there is no forum rule prohibiting the quoting of postings or partial postings from one thread to the other if it relates in some way to a post. When one of your posts blames twi for something or a variety of things, quoting your other post "I don't blame twi for anything" is fair game and speaks for itself.
If you want to play the victim card and call it "stalking", go ahead, but perhaps you should check with Paw first before making that assumption.
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WordWolf
I think she's entitled "to play the victim card" if you've already played the "I'm going to be a d1ck card"
and deliberately distorted the meaning of what she said, and kept on doing it.
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rascal
Well, it was my hope that you would play the part of a gentleman, and purported brother and cease these dishonest tactics, without me having to whine to the moderators.
Your lack of integrity in refusing to post the entire quote in context, in a deliberate attempt to misrepresent myself and my position has been pointed out to you.
Please desist.
LMAO wolf :)
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oldiesman
Please go ahead and alert the moderators. I'd really like to know whether they feel quoting a partial post from someone is dishonest as you suggest. I'll abide by whatever ruling they decide (if any).
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skyrider
Oldies......rascal asked you to "Please desist."
She asked you nicely.....she said "please"........why are you continuing this childish stance? She was up-front with you and wanting to handle it with YOU.....not take it to the next level.
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rascal
I think that this otherwise excellent thread has been dragged far enough off course :(
Polar bear, I do indeed remember the teachings that kept me in twi. There was nothing but death waiting for me outside. I know that to disobey leadership meant that I was saying no to God...that God would bless me EVEN if they were wrong...he would honor my heart...that I couldn`t be like peter and look at the negative 5 senses stuff or I`d sink...
I remember feeling so trapped...not knowing that in corpes application that I was entering a contract...irrevocable...that if I didn`t fullfil my commitment I would die like annanias and saphira for lying to God....
I remember how broken I was when I was required to chose to abort the child that would prevent my entrance into residence.......
I remember how hopeless it all was...that it was either the childs life or live a life however short without God :(
Polar bear, Yes I did feel like an animal in a cage, hopeless, without a choice....No there were no bars on our cages, no walls in our prison, no weapons held to our head....but yet I did feel like an animal trapped.
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rascal
I know that my friends felt that they had *no way oout* when the lc decided that their teenaged daughter wasn`t respectfull enough to him. They were to throw her to the streets ...when they were reluctant....they were told either do it or the whole family would be m&a d.
M&A meant that you were separated from the house hold, from God`s blessing and protection, vulnerable to become possessed, taken out...a grease spot by midnight. They had three other children who`s lives and safety that had to be considered .... yes...they felt that they had no way out, and cast their precious daughter out of her home and away from her family :(
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rascal
Does anybody in hind sight, think they can see instances of the keys to the cell door being offered? Somebody standing outside of the door beckoning us out into freedom, sunshine and fresh air??
Figuratively speaking I can, I remember bracing against the door way and resistying with all of my strength....terrified that outside those door lay death and destruction as promised in our teachings.
Not only did we not feel that we were free, we actively fought to remain in our dark dank little holes :(
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Ham
Those who've stayed in the dark cell well past time they KNEW it was a scam, and actually HAVE options (unlike some with relatives and family still in) remind me of the canibalistic morlocks in Well's "The Time machine"..
like.. those on top. I think they've mutated into disgusting, beastial like manipulators, sucking the life out of those under their "charge".
They are uglier as each year passes..
Today, I can honestly say I like who I am.. I wonder if they can say the same.
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frank123lol
If you got through all the bs they indeed might not like themselves.
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Ron G.
Alert who? What? why? Is there a pending 'terrist attack'? Do we all need to duck and cover?
Although I suppose everyone does it from time to time...me included, I think its terribly dishonest...especially, the way it was done in the post in question. I saw it and had to go back and find Rascal's posts to get the context and her meaning.
Maybe it would be better to quote the entire post and put what you want to emphsize in bold or something. That's what most do in the 'tics and tacks' forum as that way, readers know what you're talking about.
I'm not a moderator or anything, but that's my opinion. All it did was confuse us innocent bystanders by making it appear Rascal was saying something she wasn't.
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waysider
One of the questions posed in the original post was "Were you told that if you left you would no longer have God's protection?"
Now, admittedly, I have paraphrased that somewhat to make this post flow.
If the original poster does not find that acceptable, I trust he will let me know.
One respondent's answer to this question was "No".
I found that a bit odd, if not dishonest.
I think it is a fairly well known fact that this is actually one of the more significant controlling tactics that TWI employed.
I have to wonder how honest this person is being with their self.
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