Your opinions are welcome, but don't expect everybody (or, for that matter, anybody) to agree with them. You ARE very civil. (I, on the other hand, tend to be rather blunt.) But I doubt you'll get many converts to Catholicism here. I did the RC thing (even while I was a Twig Leader). Just not interested anymore.
I didn't start this thread so perhaps you should ask Rascal what the point is? As I see it, it was started to presumably show that nobody trumps twi in the evil department. I'm merely pointing out that if we were to do some digging, we'd find out fast that evil allegedly flourishes in all the world and in many other religious groups.
I have no doubt that evil flourishes in the world and in many other religious and non-religious groups. I cannot speak for Rascal and say definitively what her point was. My take, however, was that somewhere someone implied, or she understood someone to have implied, that TWI was no worse than any other religious group.
I'd say, it is worse than some religious groups, and perhaps not as bad as others.
So then you don't blame twi for employing brainwashing or extreme manipulation as a reason for your continued attendance?
I know you were asking Rascal, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, I most certainly do blame TWI for employing extreme manipulation and that played a HUGE roll in why I stayed as long as I did. Does that alleviate me of my own responsibility for the decisions I made? Hell no!
But likewise, my responsibility for the things I did, for the choices I made, does not alleviate those in TWI who used extreme manipulation against me to pressure me into staying.
I am not afraid or unable to admit responsibility for my role in the charade that was TWI. It would be nice if those in TWI who manipulated people for their own gain were not afraid or unable to admit their responsibility as well.
Exactly. The facts hurt, Oldies. So why do you continue to defend the indefensible despite all the facts that are laid out?
No, my exasperation was that despite all the facts, all the logic, all the impassioned arguments, there are those who are just so dense, so brainwashed, or so prideful that they simply won't admit that they were taught wrongly by TWI (or other similar cults) about the Church (not naming any names, mind you...I wouldn't want to be accused of making a personal attack).
When I first started posting on GSC I just sucked it up and kept my mouth shut. Then I spoke out...thinking that some might hear. Well, I was utterly wrong. (What do they say about leading horses to water???)
So I think I'll just make this my opus and wish all concerned a nice day.
mark,there a lot of people that listen to what you write,and never post. I know how you feel ,i also feel personally attacked
when ever i mention catholic anything,by some dove that thinks its white!
mark,there a lot of people that listen to what you write,and never post. I know how you feel ,i also feel personally attacked
when ever i mention catholic anything,by some dove that thinks its white!
see you on the other side brother.
Then again perhaps some feel the same way when others attack their beliefs learned in the Way. Oh well feelings come and go..... Me I figure if your gonna talk cults then all the cards should be on the table........
You see Rascal (and others), Oldies did bring up a valid point in pointing to the RC child abuse situations, and other abuses in other churches. Where his logic fails is where he uses it to make excuses for/downplays the actual crap that went on in TWI. I don't do that. Rather (since this thread _does_ deal in TWI in relation to other religious groups as being worse), I bring up the fact that such abuses (including the behaviors that people distort as 'mind control') aren't exclusively specific to groups that people think of as 'cults'. Such behaviors: control, abuse, intimidation, manipulation, money grubbing, sexual abuse, the claim that _they_ understand what God wants, s**t done in the Name of God over the years, ... bleed over, profusely I might add, to a good number of 'churches-that-aren't-regarded-as-mind-control-cults' as well. ... It's just that its not as easy to spot (or are a lot of people being as honest to admit) when it happens in their own churches backyard, particularly if said church is widely known as 'orthodox' and 'mainstream'.
"We're door to door witnessing for TWI... and before you shut the door, we'd like you to know that we're no worse than other religious groups"...
...of course we have never done anything beneficial for society either...we dont build hospitals or schools , support the arts or engage in social projects---not so much as one Habitat for Humanity house, or nickel to a homeless shelter or soup kitchen---BUT we will take your money, control your life and when its time for you to leave we will make sure that we let all your 'friends' know that your are pozest.
I don`t blame a dog for being rabid either, I don`t blame a cat that grabbed my sons 300 dollar finch out of the cage, I don`t blame the colt that kicks out playfully and inadvertently hurts me...it is the nature of the beast.....by the same token
I don`t blame twi for being a mind sucking, opportunity eating, people destroying, sexually abusive, child abusing, baby murdering, exploitive, manipulative, dishonest, spiritually putrid CULT!!! That is just what happens when you have men of the flesh, false prophets, ravening wolves seeking whom they may devour seducing and decieving people into the snare carefully disguised with bible verses and pretty trappings :(
I would imagine that is why God so strenuously warns us to be wary, gives us explicit instructions in how to identify one another, and dire warnings of the consequences of becoming ensnared by these deceivers.
My responsibility in these situation is to shoot the dog, protect the finch, be wary, and never talk my eyes off of the colt...AND shout from the roof tops the dangers of involvement of the cult of twi!
I don`t blame a dog for being rabid either, I don`t blame a cat that grabbed my sons 300 dollar finch out of the cage, I don`t blame the colt that kicks out playfully and inadvertently hurts me...by the same token
I don`t blame twi for being a mind sucking, opportunity eating, people destroying, sexually abusive, child abusing, baby murdering, exploitive, manipulative, dishonest, spiritually putrid CULT!!! That is just what happens when you have men of the flesh, false prophets, ravening wolves seeking whom they may devour seducing and decieving people into the snare carefully disguised with bible verses and pretty trappings :(
I would imagine that is why God so strenuously warns us to be wary, gives us explicit instructions in how to identify one another, and dire warnings of the consequences of becoming ensnared by these deceivers.
My responsibility in these situation is to shoot the dog, protect the finch, be wary, and never talk my eyes off of the colt...AND shout from the roof tops the dangers of involvement of the cult of twi!
OCW....Would you believe that I LIVED that book? Yeah, I knew Karl....and believe it or not, when I read the book, I told him how offended I was...lol ...that I didn`t think that we were as cynical as he had portrayed....LITTLE did I know ...
I don`t blame a dog for being rabid either, I don`t blame a cat that grabbed my sons 300 dollar finch out of the cage, I don`t blame the colt that kicks out playfully and inadvertently hurts me...it is the nature of the beast.....by the same token
I don`t blame twi for being a mind sucking, opportunity eating, people destroying, sexually abusive, child abusing, baby murdering, exploitive, manipulative, dishonest, spiritually putrid CULT!!! That is just what happens when you have men of the flesh, false prophets, ravening wolves seeking whom they may devour seducing and decieving people into the snare carefully disguised with bible verses and pretty trappings :(
I would imagine that is why God so strenuously warns us to be wary, gives us explicit instructions in how to identify one another, and dire warnings of the consequences of becoming ensnared by these deceivers.
My responsibility in these situation is to shoot the dog, protect the finch, be wary, and never talk my eyes off of the colt...AND shout from the roof tops the dangers of involvement of the cult of twi!
"A scorpion once requested a favor from a camel. The scorpion wanted to cross a deep river but could not find any way to do so. Seeing a camel nearby, the scorpion approached him and asked the camel to carry him across. The camel refused, saying, “You will sting me.”"No, no. I am an ethical scorpion. I promise I won’t sting you.”
The camel agreed and, taking the scorpion on his hump, began crossing the river. Halfway across, the scorpion suddenly stung the camel.
“Why did you do that?” the camel asked. “Now we will both die.”
“What can I say?” the scorpion replied. “It’s my nature.”"
========
"A man was walking along a dusty path. He came upon an injured snake which asked for his help.
The man replied, "I'd love to help you but you are a snake and everyone knows that a snake cannot be trusted. If I help you I fear that once you are better you will bring great harm upon me."
The snake assured him that he would not do so and would be forever grateful.The man against his better judgment decided he would help the snake. He cared for him and nourished him back to health. Each day he would bring food to the snake and they would share time together. One day the man came to the snake who was now fully recovered and upon approaching him to provide food, the snake attacked him with a deadly and death assured bite.
The man looked upon the snake and asked "But why? I helped you, I nourished you, I trusted you. Why did you do this terrible thing to me?" The snake replied "But my foolish man, you knew I was a snake when you picked me up!"
Great point mstar....I have often thought in disgust what MIGHT have been accomplished had our youthful energy, our boundless enthusiasm, our selfless giving of years even decades of our lives, our time, our resources, hundreds of millions of dollars in money, billions of hours of prayer.... had all of this been focused in a legitimate direction that could have done some actual good in the world :(
Great point mstar....I have often thought in disgust what MIGHT have been accomplished had our youthful energy, our boundless enthusiasm, our selfless giving of years even decades of our lives, our time, our resources, hundreds of millions of dollars in money, billions of hours of prayer.... had all of this been focused in a legitimate direction that could have done some actual good in the world :(
Or even just of God!
How far would the House of Acts have reached- H33fn3r, D00p, Fug1t, the others-
if they'd continued their work unto God without anyone convincing them to leave the BEST cause (serving God)
to serve a supposedly GOOD cause (serving someone who claims to serve God)?
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skyrider
ditto...
I appreciate your input here at GS, Mark.
And, for me......I enjoy reading a perspective that gives me pause to reflect or re-direct my thinking.
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rascal
Mark, you have far more credibility than your attackers. I wish that you wouldn`t go.
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excathedra
this is is the wrong thread for me, but i did try.....
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GeorgeStGeorge
Mark,
Your opinions are welcome, but don't expect everybody (or, for that matter, anybody) to agree with them. You ARE very civil. (I, on the other hand, tend to be rather blunt.) But I doubt you'll get many converts to Catholicism here. I did the RC thing (even while I was a Twig Leader). Just not interested anymore.
George
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Abigail
I have no doubt that evil flourishes in the world and in many other religious and non-religious groups. I cannot speak for Rascal and say definitively what her point was. My take, however, was that somewhere someone implied, or she understood someone to have implied, that TWI was no worse than any other religious group.
I'd say, it is worse than some religious groups, and perhaps not as bad as others.
I know you were asking Rascal, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, I most certainly do blame TWI for employing extreme manipulation and that played a HUGE roll in why I stayed as long as I did. Does that alleviate me of my own responsibility for the decisions I made? Hell no!
But likewise, my responsibility for the things I did, for the choices I made, does not alleviate those in TWI who used extreme manipulation against me to pressure me into staying.
I am not afraid or unable to admit responsibility for my role in the charade that was TWI. It would be nice if those in TWI who manipulated people for their own gain were not afraid or unable to admit their responsibility as well.
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cheranne
mark,there a lot of people that listen to what you write,and never post. I know how you feel ,i also feel personally attacked
when ever i mention catholic anything,by some dove that thinks its white!
see you on the other side brother.
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WhiteDove
Then again perhaps some feel the same way when others attack their beliefs learned in the Way. Oh well feelings come and go..... Me I figure if your gonna talk cults then all the cards should be on the table........
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oldiesman
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oldiesman
Good points Garth, thanks.
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cman
So what do you believe Oldiesman, and how is it working for you.
Like what kind of fruit or results have you seen in your life from your beliefs, twi or not.
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oldiesman
Cman,
Please feel free to PM me anytime to discuss those issues.
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cman
No, I'm not going to pm you.
Why can't you discuss this openly, what are you afraid of or ashamed of?
What is the reason for discussing this in private?
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Tom Strange
TWI no worse than other religious groups
...what a great selling point!
[knock knock knock]
"Good evening how are you"
"We're door to door witnessing for TWI... and before you shut the door, we'd like you to know that we're no worse than other religious groups"...
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mstar1
...of course we have never done anything beneficial for society either...we dont build hospitals or schools , support the arts or engage in social projects---not so much as one Habitat for Humanity house, or nickel to a homeless shelter or soup kitchen---BUT we will take your money, control your life and when its time for you to leave we will make sure that we let all your 'friends' know that your are pozest.
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rascal
and your point oldies IS???
I don`t blame a dog for being rabid either, I don`t blame a cat that grabbed my sons 300 dollar finch out of the cage, I don`t blame the colt that kicks out playfully and inadvertently hurts me...it is the nature of the beast.....by the same token
I don`t blame twi for being a mind sucking, opportunity eating, people destroying, sexually abusive, child abusing, baby murdering, exploitive, manipulative, dishonest, spiritually putrid CULT!!! That is just what happens when you have men of the flesh, false prophets, ravening wolves seeking whom they may devour seducing and decieving people into the snare carefully disguised with bible verses and pretty trappings :(
I would imagine that is why God so strenuously warns us to be wary, gives us explicit instructions in how to identify one another, and dire warnings of the consequences of becoming ensnared by these deceivers.
My responsibility in these situation is to shoot the dog, protect the finch, be wary, and never talk my eyes off of the colt...AND shout from the roof tops the dangers of involvement of the cult of twi!
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oldiesman
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cheranne
RASCAL RIGHT ON!!!
everyone should read this book,we should pass this book out like the phone book
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Ham
Rascal.. it seems some among us just are intent upon getting kicked again, and again, and again..
some would even go back to see how well they've padded the horses hooves..
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T-Bone
[putting foot in door to prevent closing] ..."wait, wait – did I mention the gilded turd charms we're giving out at the Public Ex?"
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Ham
Some people around here..
one finds it hard debating with them that twi sold snake oil.
"of course they didn't sell it. they just accepted *donations*.."
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rascal
OCW....Would you believe that I LIVED that book? Yeah, I knew Karl....and believe it or not, when I read the book, I told him how offended I was...lol ...that I didn`t think that we were as cynical as he had portrayed....LITTLE did I know ...
Karl, wherever you are...I owe you an apology :)
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WordWolf
"A scorpion once requested a favor from a camel. The scorpion wanted to cross a deep river but could not find any way to do so. Seeing a camel nearby, the scorpion approached him and asked the camel to carry him across. The camel refused, saying, “You will sting me.”"No, no. I am an ethical scorpion. I promise I won’t sting you.”
The camel agreed and, taking the scorpion on his hump, began crossing the river. Halfway across, the scorpion suddenly stung the camel.
“Why did you do that?” the camel asked. “Now we will both die.”
“What can I say?” the scorpion replied. “It’s my nature.”"
========
"A man was walking along a dusty path. He came upon an injured snake which asked for his help.
The man replied, "I'd love to help you but you are a snake and everyone knows that a snake cannot be trusted. If I help you I fear that once you are better you will bring great harm upon me."
The snake assured him that he would not do so and would be forever grateful.The man against his better judgment decided he would help the snake. He cared for him and nourished him back to health. Each day he would bring food to the snake and they would share time together. One day the man came to the snake who was now fully recovered and upon approaching him to provide food, the snake attacked him with a deadly and death assured bite.
The man looked upon the snake and asked "But why? I helped you, I nourished you, I trusted you. Why did you do this terrible thing to me?" The snake replied "But my foolish man, you knew I was a snake when you picked me up!"
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rascal
Great point mstar....I have often thought in disgust what MIGHT have been accomplished had our youthful energy, our boundless enthusiasm, our selfless giving of years even decades of our lives, our time, our resources, hundreds of millions of dollars in money, billions of hours of prayer.... had all of this been focused in a legitimate direction that could have done some actual good in the world :(
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WordWolf
Or even just of God!
How far would the House of Acts have reached- H33fn3r, D00p, Fug1t, the others-
if they'd continued their work unto God without anyone convincing them to leave the BEST cause (serving God)
to serve a supposedly GOOD cause (serving someone who claims to serve God)?
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