The version I heard was that Grahm spoke in tongues. Whether the vicster had anything to do with it, I can't remember that much of the "stowrie". Apparently, Grahm "copped out". Otherwise, he'd be on the main stage with herr vicmeister.. maybe someone can remember this better than I.
Red drapes story?
Undocumented as far as I can tell.
God told VP HOW TO MAKE OIL?(HA HA HA)
It was from an ancient manuscript. It slithered down the mountain one day.
"first, thou mustest collect the skins of several hundred snakes.."
Copenhagen, I was told that LCM was just a bench warmer in college.
I never ever heard vpw claim that he worked with either Oral Roberts, or Billy Graham...only that they had *blown it* spiritually because they only taught people how to get born again, but not the christian walk afterwards.
The red drapes story was in pfal as an illustration of believing....nobody has ever verified this story.
The key to the city story has never been verified, though mrs. w apparently mentions it in her book. Many of the wierwille kids were in india with him...maybe they can confirm.
Did LCM ever claim that he was a great football player? I heard him speak highly of his coaches and relate things that he learned in football to what he was teaching, but I never heard him talk about his ability or lack of it. I did hear second hand how he described how tough Nebraska was in the Orange Bowl of '70.
You gotta wonder if lcm would have been happier teaching high school PE and coaching high school football. Raise four kids in a normal environment ... no challenge to save the world ... no push to be opened up sexually by vpw. No need to scream at everyone with debil spurts. No Athletes of the Spirit in silly tights ...
Or mabe he would have terrorized high school kids ...
I don't remember him bragging about his football abilities. He was just your basic pickup basketball player, a little intense maybe.
Red drapes ... sounds made up ... needs and wants parallel ... but God does exceeding abundantly ... belieiving EQUALS receiving ... did any of that really add up?
Craig wasn't a great football player but he did play football for KU. (wasn't his bachelors of psychology paid for by a football scholarship?)
His team did go to the Orange Bowl, and one of the gifts he received while director of the corps was a replacement of his lost bowl ring, although I don't think he saw much field time in that game.
He really didn't talk much about how good a player he was, in fact, he spoke more about his challenges as a player and how the coaches helped him, or how "believing images of victory" worked for him, that sort of thing.
Rhino, I think you may be right... he probably would have been a decent school football coach if twi and vic hadn't intervened.
(snip)Craig came to HQ basiclly right out of college at KU. He told us while we visited the Corps Chalet (his home on grounds) that he had dreams to play pro football, like most guys who play Division 1 NCAA football do. He said he was a star in high school ball but when he got to the NCAA he realized that all he had to do in high school was grunt and push people out of the way.
Craig was always second string at KU. He told us how the COACHES felt other guys picked up the blocking schemes and techniques ("I had to LEARN stuff!" He said.) faster & better than he and played the other guys in practice more than he and he didn't get the opportunity he felt he deserved to prove himself. Therefore he warmed the bench, not playing as much as he wanted.
He was upset about his lack of playing time when KU went to the Orange Bowl. His team did actually go to the Orange bowl but Craig wasn't a starter, he hardly even got in the game at all. He didn't get his uniform dirty; that's an insult to a football player.
"Another promise in the Epistle of I John! Way in the back of your Bible! I John! The Epistle of I John! First! Second! Third John!
I John 5:14: And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "It has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "May I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "You certainly may."
They made an appointment. She went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. All right! She rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful."
***
=================================
Why didn't it make the books?
Well, as you can see, it makes no sense, and doesn't support the claim it claims to support.
My favorite line?
"She had a need, that need was THAT THEY MIGHT AS WELL have red drapes on, that's what she WANTED."
Seems some of us don't even understand what a "need" is.
And if it was in black and white, it would be too easy to see that this does not make sense.
Of all the incredulous claims that Loy made, my favorite was that he had the training and ability to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation. I think we can all agree that his recent employment history has proven that statement false.
I can't imagine that Billy Graham and VPW ever even met.
Oh here's a good one: One time VPW visited a mental hospital. Of course, we all know that mental illnesses are caused by devil spirit possession. So these possessed people would see the Man of God, run screaming toward him, and just bounce off an invisible force field about 6 feet all the way around VPW. They would fall to the ground and crawl away in defeat because of his great believing.
Oh and here's another good one: VPW said his mind was so renewed to the accuracy and integrity of God's Wonder Matchless Word that he could for days and days without sinning or breaking fellowship with God.
In the CF&S class, he says that, one night, God showed him what the original sin was, and that, despite his lack of scriptural evidence, we would "just have to take my(his) word on this."
I can't decide if I should post one of these or one of these .
In the CF&S class, he says that, one night, God showed him what the original sin was, and that, despite his lack of scriptural evidence, we would "just have to take my(his) word on this."
Yep Jim-I don't think LOY could even be the CEO of a Fortune Cookie Corporation.
I know there's a joke in there someplace that ends with the punchline "That's how the cookie crumbles.", but, then again, maybe the punchline is all that is needed.
According to Uncle Harry-who never claimed to have EVER seen it-
when vpw was out of sight as a child, he wasn't avoiding his chores,
he was "preaching to the trees."
Mind you, vpw's own accounts of himself as a youth don't show him preaching, neither to
trees or anything.
Billy Graham, however, had witnesses.
"He transferred in January of 1937 to Florida Bible Institute (now Trinity College) from which he graduated in 1940 with a bachelor of theology degree.
Graham's mother and younger brother Melvin had gone to visit him there and found him talking to the trees, Melvin Graham said.
"When we arrived, someone at the Bible Institute told us Billy was out in the woods practicing his preaching," he said. "We walked out into the woods and there he was doing an altar call to the trees."
"We went as a family, Dotsie and I and the three oldest children. John Paul was two
months old, so he stayed with his aunt, Dotsie's sister. It had never happened before that a man of God and his whole family went on a missionary tour.
And I went unaffiliated, not under the flag of any denomination."
pg-216.
"They responded because we brought with us only a teaching and research ministry
of blessing to the people, irrespective of religious allegiance, with no
acquisition of property and with no threat to the freedom of the nationals.
The response of the denominations-my own included-was supremely non-loving, even
vociferously opposed. The National Council of Churches in India informed me that
I was not representing the Evangelical and Reformed Church, which I never
claimed anyway. From then on I stopped all mission support except one dollar
per year."
Mind you, I find YOUR answer a LOT more believable. vpw made it sound like he wandered around
with no ties to anyone, not any organization of any kind. ("Unaffiliated.")
"We went as a family, Dotsie and I and the three oldest children. John Paul was two
months old, so he stayed with his aunt, Dotsie's sister. It had never happened before that a man of God and his whole family went on a missionary tour.
And I went unaffiliated, not under the flag of any denomination."
pg-216.
"They responded because we brought with us only a teaching and research ministry
of blessing to the people, irrespective of religious allegiance, with no
acquisition of property and with no threat to the freedom of the nationals.
The response of the denominations-my own included-was supremely non-loving, even
vociferously opposed. The National Council of Churches in India informed me that
I was not representing the Evangelical and Reformed Church, which I never
claimed anyway. From then on I stopped all mission support except one dollar
per year."
Mind you, I find YOUR answer a LOT more believable. vpw made it sound like he wandered around
with no ties to anyone, not any organization of any kind. ("Unaffiliated.")
WW & WD.....according to Mrs. W's book, Born Again to Serve the account of the India itinerary that included 23 cities/communities is extensively documented.
Dr. Williams was MUCH MORE than just a guide for the wierwilles.......he (and his family) was their HOST (think how big that was in THAT culture) and entree to government offices, churches, meetings, etc. See some detail below....
p. 125...."Bishop Pillai had made arrangements with Dr. Williams to be our host in India." [added bold-type]
p. 125,126...."During the years prior to India's independence in 1948, many of the Indian revolutionaries were imprisoned for trying to oust the British. During those times, Dr. Williams contributed to the independence movement by personally carrying communications to and from these patriots. He was trusted to take correspondence and messages to those who would later become the highest political leaders in the Indian government, men such as Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, Vice President Dr. Radha Krishna, and Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, the father of India. BECAUSE OF DR. WILLIAMS'S CONTACTS AND CREDIBILITY, it was possible for Dr. Wierwille to meet....." [emphasis added]
p. 127...."The next evening after our arrival we were given a very cordial 'at home' at Dr. Williams church, where about 150 people gathered to officially welcome us."
p. 130...."During our stay in India, Dr. Wierwille was sometimes introduced by Dr. Williams as a representative of 'PAIRS,' the acronym for the Promotion of American-India Relations Society in an industrial, economic, and cultural exchange.......Dr. Williams was the head of the Federation of National Churches and therefore at various times during our tour Dr. Wierwille was invited to speak in their local churches."
p. 145...."Dr. Wierwille and Dr. Williams met with the chief minister of Madhya Pradesh...."
p. 154...."On Monday, January 23, Dr. Williams and Dr. Wierwille went to keep a speaking engagement at Jain meeting.........Dr. Wierwille spoke........Dr. Williams also spoke in Hindi to the crowd for fifteen minutes."
p. 155...."One of the Jain leaders asked Dr. Wierwille to have a special blessing for all the Jains.......When the train came to its first stop, a man from the next compartment came to our door, saying that his master would like to meet......When we had introduced ourselves, he said, 'We would like to pay our respects. It is not often we get to travel with such a man of God who blesses all the people.' He told us he was a member of the central government on his way home to Allahabad. He gave Dr. Wierwille the key to that city."
* NOTE: This "key" was given in a very private setting.
** NOTE: Dr. Williams was HIGHLY respected every where he took his guest, Dr. Wierwille.
***NOTE: Quite a bit different accounting of events than what vpw taught in the pfal class.
I took the Advanced Class in 1973 at the Way International HQ, and at that time VPW played a tape for us of Oral Roberts at the height of his healing ministry ... what I remember of it was "If you bow, you'll burn; if you don't bow, you can't burn." It was about the record in Daniel of Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego. VPW made the statement afterward that Oral Roberts had a great healing ministry, but that he "sold out" to the Methodist church. (I am assuming he meant he gave up the traveling minister circuit to have Oral Roberts University, but I'm not sure how that ties in with the Methodist Church.)
DL, in the late 1960's, Oral Roberts joined Boston Street United Methodist Church in Tulsa, to attract and appease some of the area's rich clienteile to help fund his University and Hospital in nearby Jenks/Bixby where ORU is located. TLB
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Ham
Undocumented as far as I can tell.
It was from an ancient manuscript. It slithered down the mountain one day.
"first, thou mustest collect the skins of several hundred snakes.."
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rascal
Copenhagen, I was told that LCM was just a bench warmer in college.
I never ever heard vpw claim that he worked with either Oral Roberts, or Billy Graham...only that they had *blown it* spiritually because they only taught people how to get born again, but not the christian walk afterwards.
The red drapes story was in pfal as an illustration of believing....nobody has ever verified this story.
The key to the city story has never been verified, though mrs. w apparently mentions it in her book. Many of the wierwille kids were in india with him...maybe they can confirm.
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Oakspear
Did LCM ever claim that he was a great football player? I heard him speak highly of his coaches and relate things that he learned in football to what he was teaching, but I never heard him talk about his ability or lack of it. I did hear second hand how he described how tough Nebraska was in the Orange Bowl of '70.
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rhino
You gotta wonder if lcm would have been happier teaching high school PE and coaching high school football. Raise four kids in a normal environment ... no challenge to save the world ... no push to be opened up sexually by vpw. No need to scream at everyone with debil spurts. No Athletes of the Spirit in silly tights ...
Or mabe he would have terrorized high school kids ...
I don't remember him bragging about his football abilities. He was just your basic pickup basketball player, a little intense maybe.
Red drapes ... sounds made up ... needs and wants parallel ... but God does exceeding abundantly ... belieiving EQUALS receiving ... did any of that really add up?
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TheHighWay
Craig wasn't a great football player but he did play football for KU. (wasn't his bachelors of psychology paid for by a football scholarship?)
His team did go to the Orange Bowl, and one of the gifts he received while director of the corps was a replacement of his lost bowl ring, although I don't think he saw much field time in that game.
He really didn't talk much about how good a player he was, in fact, he spoke more about his challenges as a player and how the coaches helped him, or how "believing images of victory" worked for him, that sort of thing.
Rhino, I think you may be right... he probably would have been a decent school football coach if twi and vic hadn't intervened.
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WordWolf
From the thread "Craig and VP's relationship"....
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WordWolf
Here's the entire "red drapes" story.
It's not in the book, but it's in the class.
Here's the exact wording....
======================
"Another promise in the Epistle of I John! Way in the back of your Bible! I John! The Epistle of I John! First! Second! Third John!
I John 5:14: And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "It has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "May I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "You certainly may."
They made an appointment. She went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. All right! She rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful."
***
=================================
Why didn't it make the books?
Well, as you can see, it makes no sense, and doesn't support the claim it claims to support.
My favorite line?
"She had a need, that need was THAT THEY MIGHT AS WELL have red drapes on, that's what she WANTED."
Seems some of us don't even understand what a "need" is.
And if it was in black and white, it would be too easy to see that this does not make sense.
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WhiteDove
The key to the city was for the city of Allahabad. I seem to remember that the key was displayed at the Sidney House at one time. Anyone else remember that? I'd tend to believe the record, given that he was the guest of many receptions during the stay. The key was for one city not all of India and was given to him by a member of the central government who was from Allahabad. Another thing to consider is something that Way History fails to mention often which was that VP went to India as a representative of The American Committee for the All-India Federation of National Churches They sponsored his tour which is why he was given the entrée and attention he was given. Dr. J. S. Williams was their guide he was the head of the Federation of National Churches. As such I can see why he might have been presented a key. While he did teach while there on occasion the key would have been most likely presented as a matter of protocol under the representative title not the Way International. None of the news clippings I have seen mention The Way in fact, only the PAIRS organization. It was most likely arranged long before anyone heard him speak or teach, so I doubt it had anything to do with his preaching.
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Jim
Of all the incredulous claims that Loy made, my favorite was that he had the training and ability to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation. I think we can all agree that his recent employment history has proven that statement false.
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Watered Garden
I can't imagine that Billy Graham and VPW ever even met.
Oh here's a good one: One time VPW visited a mental hospital. Of course, we all know that mental illnesses are caused by devil spirit possession. So these possessed people would see the Man of God, run screaming toward him, and just bounce off an invisible force field about 6 feet all the way around VPW. They would fall to the ground and crawl away in defeat because of his great believing.
Oh and here's another good one: VPW said his mind was so renewed to the accuracy and integrity of God's Wonder Matchless Word that he could for days and days without sinning or breaking fellowship with God.
WG
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waysider
Here's my favorite "fact or fiction" Stow-ree
In the CF&S class, he says that, one night, God showed him what the original sin was, and that, despite his lack of scriptural evidence, we would "just have to take my(his) word on this."
I can't decide if I should post one of these
or one of these 
.
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rhino
Was the hand of Gawd upon him? :o
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polar bear
Yep Jim-I don't think LOY could even be the CEO of a Fortune Cookie Corporation.
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waysider
I know there's a joke in there someplace that ends with the punchline "That's how the cookie crumbles.", but, then again, maybe the punchline is all that is needed.
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WordWolf
As for Oral Roberts,
vpw ripped off his "Red Thread" teaching.
As for Billy Graham,
vpw ripped off "preaching to the trees."
According to Uncle Harry-who never claimed to have EVER seen it-
when vpw was out of sight as a child, he wasn't avoiding his chores,
he was "preaching to the trees."
Mind you, vpw's own accounts of himself as a youth don't show him preaching, neither to
trees or anything.
Billy Graham, however, had witnesses.
"He transferred in January of 1937 to Florida Bible Institute (now Trinity College) from which he graduated in 1940 with a bachelor of theology degree.
Graham's mother and younger brother Melvin had gone to visit him there and found him talking to the trees, Melvin Graham said.
"When we arrived, someone at the Bible Institute told us Billy was out in the woods practicing his preaching," he said. "We walked out into the woods and there he was doing an altar call to the trees."
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WordWolf
That's peculiar-
it's NOT how vpw HIMSELF told it.
"The Way:Living in Love", pg-215.
"We went as a family, Dotsie and I and the three oldest children. John Paul was two
months old, so he stayed with his aunt, Dotsie's sister. It had never happened before that a man of God and his whole family went on a missionary tour.
And I went unaffiliated, not under the flag of any denomination."
pg-216.
"They responded because we brought with us only a teaching and research ministry
of blessing to the people, irrespective of religious allegiance, with no
acquisition of property and with no threat to the freedom of the nationals.
The response of the denominations-my own included-was supremely non-loving, even
vociferously opposed. The National Council of Churches in India informed me that
I was not representing the Evangelical and Reformed Church, which I never
claimed anyway. From then on I stopped all mission support except one dollar
per year."
Mind you, I find YOUR answer a LOT more believable. vpw made it sound like he wandered around
with no ties to anyone, not any organization of any kind. ("Unaffiliated.")
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skyrider
WW & WD.....according to Mrs. W's book, Born Again to Serve the account of the India itinerary that included 23 cities/communities is extensively documented.
Dr. Williams was MUCH MORE than just a guide for the wierwilles.......he (and his family) was their HOST (think how big that was in THAT culture) and entree to government offices, churches, meetings, etc. See some detail below....
p. 125...."Bishop Pillai had made arrangements with Dr. Williams to be our host in India." [added bold-type]
p. 125,126...."During the years prior to India's independence in 1948, many of the Indian revolutionaries were imprisoned for trying to oust the British. During those times, Dr. Williams contributed to the independence movement by personally carrying communications to and from these patriots. He was trusted to take correspondence and messages to those who would later become the highest political leaders in the Indian government, men such as Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, Vice President Dr. Radha Krishna, and Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, the father of India. BECAUSE OF DR. WILLIAMS'S CONTACTS AND CREDIBILITY, it was possible for Dr. Wierwille to meet....." [emphasis added]
p. 127...."The next evening after our arrival we were given a very cordial 'at home' at Dr. Williams church, where about 150 people gathered to officially welcome us."
p. 130...."During our stay in India, Dr. Wierwille was sometimes introduced by Dr. Williams as a representative of 'PAIRS,' the acronym for the Promotion of American-India Relations Society in an industrial, economic, and cultural exchange.......Dr. Williams was the head of the Federation of National Churches and therefore at various times during our tour Dr. Wierwille was invited to speak in their local churches."
p. 145...."Dr. Wierwille and Dr. Williams met with the chief minister of Madhya Pradesh...."
p. 154...."On Monday, January 23, Dr. Williams and Dr. Wierwille went to keep a speaking engagement at Jain meeting.........Dr. Wierwille spoke........Dr. Williams also spoke in Hindi to the crowd for fifteen minutes."
p. 155...."One of the Jain leaders asked Dr. Wierwille to have a special blessing for all the Jains.......When the train came to its first stop, a man from the next compartment came to our door, saying that his master would like to meet......When we had introduced ourselves, he said, 'We would like to pay our respects. It is not often we get to travel with such a man of God who blesses all the people.' He told us he was a member of the central government on his way home to Allahabad. He gave Dr. Wierwille the key to that city."
* NOTE: This "key" was given in a very private setting.
** NOTE: Dr. Williams was HIGHLY respected every where he took his guest, Dr. Wierwille.
***NOTE: Quite a bit different accounting of events than what vpw taught in the pfal class.
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Oakspear
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waysider
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DogLover
I took the Advanced Class in 1973 at the Way International HQ, and at that time VPW played a tape for us of Oral Roberts at the height of his healing ministry ... what I remember of it was "If you bow, you'll burn; if you don't bow, you can't burn." It was about the record in Daniel of Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego. VPW made the statement afterward that Oral Roberts had a great healing ministry, but that he "sold out" to the Methodist church. (I am assuming he meant he gave up the traveling minister circuit to have Oral Roberts University, but I'm not sure how that ties in with the Methodist Church.)
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
DL, in the late 1960's, Oral Roberts joined Boston Street United Methodist Church in Tulsa, to attract and appease some of the area's rich clienteile to help fund his University and Hospital in nearby Jenks/Bixby where ORU is located. TLB
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