Despite protests from doctors and nurses who were preparing Jeff's body for the morgue, doctor Crandall insisted they shock him one more time.
Dr. Chauncey Crandall: "So that doctor came over with those paddles and blasted that man and, all of a sudden, instantly a perfect heartbeat came up on the monitor. The stomach started moving, the chest started moving. This man started breathing on his own, and I said, 'This man has been prayed for, he has been brought back from the dead by prayer in the name of Jesus.'"
Uhhmmm, no. The answer of how the man came back to life is clearly indicated in the first sentence of what Crandell said. The heart shock paddles. So they didn't work the first few times. That's common in situations like this.
And frankly, I have my serious doubts as to him 'being dead' for an hour. Was he starting to go into rigor mortis? Bodies don't start to decompose until well after an hour. And what about this part? "His face, his arms, his legs were pitch black with death. I said, 'Let's just call the code, let's end it because there's no life left." Really? So after being dead for about an hour, a body is 'pitch black with death'? Dead bodies don't go 'pitch black' after only an hour.
Another flaw: "Jeff Markin: "I was actually standing in the back of the funeral home, and I came to realize that this was my funeral." Huh? I didn't know that they started the funeral even while he's still at the EM. (Besides, don't they wheel the lifeless body _out_ of the EM in order to prepare it for burial? So that the next emergency patient can get treatment?) Also, Jeff supposedly was talking to an (angel?) named ... Bob.
What do the medical records show? See, all we have here is an unverified account of one doctor and one patient. Notice no accounts recorded from the other nurses/doctors.
This is a very questionable (if not downright laughable) 'news account'. And that the news station cast it as a viable story doesn't do anything for its journalistic credibility. ... Oh wait, it's a Fox News channel. That explains it!
Uhhmmm, no. The answer of how the man came back to life is clearly indicated in the first sentence of what Crandell said. The heart shock paddles. So they didn't work the first few times. That's common in situations like this.
And frankly, I have my serious doubts as to him 'being dead' for an hour. Was he starting to go into rigor mortis? Bodies don't start to decompose until well after an hour. And what about this part? "His face, his arms, his legs were pitch black with death. I said, 'Let's just call the code, let's end it because there's no life left." Really? So after being dead for about an hour, a body is 'pitch black with death'? Dead bodies don't go 'pitch black' after only an hour.
Another flaw: "Jeff Markin: "I was actually standing in the back of the funeral home, and I came to realize that this was my funeral." Huh? I didn't know that they started the funeral even while he's still at the EM. (Besides, don't they wheel the lifeless body _out_ of the EM in order to prepare it for burial? So that the next emergency patient can get treatment?) Also, Jeff supposedly was talking to an (angel?) named ... Bob.
What do the medical records show? See, all we have here is an unverified account of one doctor and one patient. Notice no accounts recorded from the other nurses/doctors.
This is a very questionable (if not downright laughable) 'news account'. And that the news station cast it as a viable story doesn't do anything for its journalistic credibility. ... Oh wait, it's a Fox News channel. That explains it!
<_<
Garth, Are you a Dr.? I'd think the Dr. who was attending the man in the emergency room would be a more reliable witness than someone who isn't a Dr. and who wasn't there.
Garth, Are you a Dr.? I'd think the Dr. who was attending the man in the emergency room would be a more reliable witness than someone who isn't a Dr. and who wasn't there.
And it apparently was carried (the news item) on a LOCAL Fox affiliate... indicating a little bit of separation (at least) from Fox News Channel's typical bias.
Clearly, people with different perspectives will view this situation differently, but I'd have to agree with Wrdsandwrks that an attending physician would be more credible than someone simply commenting on the news story... first person and professional credentials, etc.
There would be a medical record of all this. I did wish that more doctors and nurses had been interviewed. I felt like more witnesses would have lent more credibility, especially given the "re-enactment" style of the presentation.
I would say the attending physician that pronounced him dead and/or was prepping him for the morgue, would much rather give the credit to God than be blamed for malpractice. A few more minutes and he could have just buried his mistakes maybe.
I don't know who did what, but it did apparently take the shock to get him going, which frequently brings people back from "the dead". I'd vote for bad doctorin ... but at the least it was good the prayer had the confidence in prayer to insist on another jolt.
Garth, Are you a Dr.? I'd think the Dr. who was attending the man in the emergency room would be a more reliable witness than someone who isn't a Dr. and who wasn't there.
but I'd have to agree with Wrdsandwrks that an attending physician would be more credible than someone simply commenting on the news story... first person and professional credentials, etc.
Usually this is the case, ... IF what said physician diagnosed/rendered was backed up by the medical records of this situation, ... (IF their was indeed medical records. <_< ) See, the physician's word ALONE isn't good enough. No Virginia, it isn't. ... (Uuhhmm, that's why people often go for a 2nd opinion? And sometimes said physicians are sometimes sued for medical malpractice?)
Like Dooj also said, "I did wish that more doctors and nurses had been interviewed. I felt like more witnesses would have lent more credibility, especially given the "re-enactment" style of the presentation." Now where were they after this situation, hmmm? Why shouldn't they also be interviewed, particularly when it is regarding 'raising someone from the dead'? An incident like this would be regarded as at least highly uncommon, therefore scrutiny and validation would be necessary, would it not?
Unless we are all to take this *one* doctor's account on faith. ..... Errmm, ... No. "But he's a doctor, and you aren't, Patterson!"
And I have to be a doctor to know all this as basic fact?? ... I think not!
I stand by what I say.
Rhino,
LOVE that pic, dude! Maybe that was the 'doctor' they used.
"It is ALIVE!!!"
P.S., "I would say the attending physician that pronounced him dead and/or was prepping him for the morgue, would much rather give the credit to God than be blamed for malpractice. A few more minutes and he could have just buried his mistakes maybe."
Great defense in court, I'd say. "Yer honor! It isn't my fault. The glory goes to God!" ..... Judge comes back with a verdict: "Guilty as charged!".
some will not believe, even if a person is raised from the dead
I just read a story ... I didn't see anyone raised from the dead. Some will believe, even if someone is falsely claimed to be raised from the dead.
Really it is just a matter of checking the veracity of the story. Jeff said he was at his own funeral before he was raised from the dead. So are the dead alive now? How was he at his own funeral, when he was still in the hospital?
The story seems mostly about Crandall drumming up business, if you are a skeptic that has seen previous men of gawd make stuff up to bring in revenue. Where are the other doctors and nurses ... shouldn't this be on NBC if there was any substance to it?
He said almost an hour without a heartbeat. But they said they had worked on him for forty minutes, then unable to revive him ... Doesn't a heart attack usually take a little time? It seems like there is some embellishing.
Now Jeff is probably going to go join a cult ... great ...
I'm all for miracles ... if everyone else agreed with Crandall, it would be national news .. I think.
Here is another source on him. It seems he has raised two others from the dead. He doesn't seem so world reknowned as the article says. He got his MD degree in the Dominican Republic ... is that where they do the voodoo that they do ... and psychic healing? Sounds more fishy the more I read.
He received a Bachelor of Science degree in anthropology from Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Va. and was awarded a M.D. degree from Universidad Centro de Estudios Tecnicos Escuela de Medicina Republica Dominicana.
That just doesn't seem the direction most world famous cardiologists would have gone to get their MD degree.
I recall Wierwille teaching that "dead for 72 hours" thing, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere else.
Yeah, I don't think that you have to be a doc to see the holes in the story. Personally I don't see anything wrong with crediting one's god for someone being alive when they were written off as dead, but the details remind me of some of the TWI urban legends.
I just read a story ... I didn't see anyone raised from the dead. Some will believe, even if someone is falsely claimed to be raised from the dead.
Good come back, Rhino.
He got his MD degree in the Dominican Republic ... is that where they do the voodoo that they do ... and psychic healing? Sounds more fishy the more I read.
Can you say 'degree mill'? ... Yup, the more we read and investigate, the more flaws we see.
And that is one big reason why I will not believe, ... and rightfully so.
He received a Bachelor of Science degree in anthropology from Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Va. and was awarded a M.D. degree from Universidad Centro de Estudios Tecnicos Escuela de Medicina Republica Dominicana.
That just doesn't seem the direction most world famous cardiologists would have gone to get their MD degree.
To be fair as to his credentials as a cardiologist I would add the rest of the credentials listed in the article:
Background on Dr. Crandall:
Dr. Crandall serves at the Palm Beach Cardiovascular Clinic in Palm Beach Gardens. He received a Bachelor of Science degree in anthropology from Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Va. and was awarded a M.D. degree from Universidad Centro de Estudios Tecnicos Escuela de Medicina Republica Dominicana. In addition, he has done post-doctoral work as an intern and as a resident in medicine at Yale University School of Medicine; as a fellow in cardiology at Mount Sinai School of Medicine; and as a intervention cardiology fellow at the Medical College of Virginia. He has served as an instructor in the Department of Medicine, Cardiology Division at Beth Israel Hospital, Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York and at the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond. He also has served as an associate faculty member at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, N.C. and as a visiting professor at St. George's University School of Medicine in Granada, West Indies.
Dr. Crandall has been in private medical practice since 1995 and holds medical staff privileges at Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center and Jupiter Medical Center. A noted lecturer both nationally and internationally, Dr. Crandall has spoken on topics including heart transplant, interventional cardiology, preventive cardiology and cardiology health care of the elderly.
To be fair as to his credentials as a cardiologist I would add the rest of the credentials listed in the article:
He sounds qualified to me.
He may be, I'm just saying it seems fishy he would leave the US to get his medical degree. If he could have gotten in anywhere in the US, I'd think he would have.
"His face his arms his legs were pitch black with death" ... does that really happen in 45 minutes after death? I don't think his face would be black, especially not pitch black. Why say "pitch black with death" unless you are story telling?
And I think he said the body was already decomposing. Does a body start decomposing in 40 minutes? It seems he was trying to make it sound like Lazurus ... he stinketh ...
And the dead guy said he was at his own funeral. So the dead are alive now.
Anyway, perhaps God told him to shock him, but he did not raise him from the dead.
On the "being-dead-for-72 hours" thing: it was a belief held among the Zoroastrians, as mentioned in their scriptures the "Zend Avesta", that upon dying, a person's "soul" remained near the corpse for 3 days, "seated" near the head, at the end of which their "spirit" counterpart would come and lead that soul across the "Chinvad Bridge" into the next world.
If a person was good in their life, their "spirit" would be appear to them in the form of Angelina Jolie.
One of my best friends, and a finer person I never knew, is a thoracic surgeon. A number of years ago, his witness spoke to another surgeon, who is also a local friend. They're workmen, and they're believers, just like me, only I work with building materials, and they work with scalpels and hemostats. They cut stuff out, and mend arteries with artificial veins and stuff. Sometimes they can just take care of business with their special skills, and sometimes they cannot. They believe God heals; they've seen it time and time again. It doesn't matter if they can prove to unbelievers that God works miracles of healing, but it does matter to the people who are healed, and to their family and friends. Miracles are routine in a believer's life. They are a part of the life we have the honor of living.
God is gracious, and heals even scoffers! Go figure!
I'm beyond the Way Ministry paradigm of having all things figured out; if anything, I'm more wondering and awed than I used to be. God does indeed work in mysterious ways. I'm fine with those who choose to nay-say the miraculous. You're welcome to your point of view. But I prefer to be primed for the miraculous should I, God forbid, need a miracle.
I'm beyond the Way Ministry paradigm of having all things figured out;
First off, TWI isn't the standard for those of us who like to 'figure things out' or have 'all things figured out'. We too, are way beyond that.
Two, I prefer to be in the 'figure it out' crowd, for then we don't have to run the unnecessary risk of being scammed, tricked, and screwed by those who just *love* to take advantage of those who so readily 'take it on faith'. Keeping the 'figure it out' function on and open, ie., scrutinizing what we hear, read, and see, is part and parcel of independent thinking for ourselves.
And that we 'scoffers' who are so skeptical and being of a 'prove it' mindset, ... now we are _scoffed_? <_< Right! ... Look, if it is indeed a genuine miracle, and it happened as told, there should be no real problem proving so. Verifying it. Now this is what I like about the current Catholic process; whenever they are told of some 'miracle', they send out a team to investigate the matter, and endeavor to verify that it is indeed a miracle, rather than some bogus claim. (And no, I don't believe in Catholic doctrine, nor do I believe in their 'miracles' either. But I do respect that they make at least an attempt to thoroughly investigate the matter, ... which is a helluva lot more than I can say for a lot of televangelical ministers who advertise 'miracles' going on in their churches. "Read more about it, ... for a Love Offering of only $39.95". )
So yes, I am indeed a scoffer, and am proud of it!
And that we 'scoffers' who are so skeptical and being of a 'prove it' mindset, ... now we are _scoffed_? <_< Right! ... Look, if it is indeed a genuine miracle, and it happened as told, there should be no real problem proving so. Verifying it. Now this is what I like about the current Catholic process; whenever they are told of some 'miracle', they send out a team to investigate the matter, and endeavor to verify that it is indeed a miracle, rather than some bogus claim. (And no, I don't believe in Catholic doctrine, nor do I believe in their 'miracles' either. But I do respect that they make at least an attempt to thoroughly investigate the matter, ... which is a helluva lot more than I can say for a lot of televangelical ministers who advertise 'miracles' going on in their churches. "Read more about it, ... for a Love Offering of only $39.95". )
In all fairness, Robert Tilton never charged me a cent for the sealed plastic bag of miraculous "Holy Water" (amounting to about 10 C.C.) and 12 colored envelopes in which to stuff checks if ever the "Holy Ghost" convulsed me to do so. And for the thin vinyl hanky into which to blow my nose and send back to him that he mayeth lay hands upon it.
And for the poster of his squinting countenance, raising his holy hand as if from the other side of a TV screen. It's hangs on my garage wall with some of my other old comics.
The holy water has long since evaporated inside the package.
as a matter of fact, I join you in loathing those who would take advantage of the gullible and foolish
they give faith a bad name, but that's all a part of this thing
spiritual matters, miracles, the reality of the redemption of mankind at the cross, are matters settled in my heart as "verifiable" -- that is, to my satisfaction
perhaps my standards are lower than yours; I don't think so, but I'm willing to accept that as a possibility
I would say the attending physician that pronounced him dead and/or was prepping him for the morgue, would much rather give the credit to God than be blamed for malpractice. A few more minutes and he could have just buried his mistakes maybe.
I don't know who did what, but it did apparently take the shock to get him going, which frequently brings people back from "the dead". I'd vote for bad doctorin ... but at the least it was good the prayer had the confidence in prayer to insist on another jolt.
IT IS ALIVE!!!
Just thought this needed repeating!
Exodus 12:30
Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.
Doesn't take much!
With that said, I think we need to look for the profit in all of this.
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likeaneagle
very cool!!
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GarthP2000
from the article:
Uhhmmm, no. The answer of how the man came back to life is clearly indicated in the first sentence of what Crandell said. The heart shock paddles. So they didn't work the first few times. That's common in situations like this.
And frankly, I have my serious doubts as to him 'being dead' for an hour. Was he starting to go into rigor mortis? Bodies don't start to decompose until well after an hour. And what about this part? "His face, his arms, his legs were pitch black with death. I said, 'Let's just call the code, let's end it because there's no life left." Really? So after being dead for about an hour, a body is 'pitch black with death'? Dead bodies don't go 'pitch black' after only an hour.
Another flaw: "Jeff Markin: "I was actually standing in the back of the funeral home, and I came to realize that this was my funeral." Huh? I didn't know that they started the funeral even while he's still at the EM. (Besides, don't they wheel the lifeless body _out_ of the EM in order to prepare it for burial? So that the next emergency patient can get treatment?) Also, Jeff supposedly was talking to an (angel?) named ... Bob.
What do the medical records show? See, all we have here is an unverified account of one doctor and one patient. Notice no accounts recorded from the other nurses/doctors.
This is a very questionable (if not downright laughable) 'news account'. And that the news station cast it as a viable story doesn't do anything for its journalistic credibility. ... Oh wait, it's a Fox News channel. That explains it!
<_<
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wrdsandwrks
Garth, Are you a Dr.? I'd think the Dr. who was attending the man in the emergency room would be a more reliable witness than someone who isn't a Dr. and who wasn't there.
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Rocky
And it apparently was carried (the news item) on a LOCAL Fox affiliate... indicating a little bit of separation (at least) from Fox News Channel's typical bias.
Clearly, people with different perspectives will view this situation differently, but I'd have to agree with Wrdsandwrks that an attending physician would be more credible than someone simply commenting on the news story... first person and professional credentials, etc.
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doojable
There would be a medical record of all this. I did wish that more doctors and nurses had been interviewed. I felt like more witnesses would have lent more credibility, especially given the "re-enactment" style of the presentation.
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rhino
I would say the attending physician that pronounced him dead and/or was prepping him for the morgue, would much rather give the credit to God than be blamed for malpractice. A few more minutes and he could have just buried his mistakes maybe.
I don't know who did what, but it did apparently take the shock to get him going, which frequently brings people back from "the dead". I'd vote for bad doctorin ... but at the least it was good the prayer had the confidence in prayer to insist on another jolt.
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GarthP2000
Usually this is the case, ... IF what said physician diagnosed/rendered was backed up by the medical records of this situation, ... (IF their was indeed medical records. <_< ) See, the physician's word ALONE isn't good enough. No Virginia, it isn't. ... (Uuhhmm, that's why people often go for a 2nd opinion? And sometimes said physicians are sometimes sued for medical malpractice?)
Like Dooj also said, "I did wish that more doctors and nurses had been interviewed. I felt like more witnesses would have lent more credibility, especially given the "re-enactment" style of the presentation." Now where were they after this situation, hmmm? Why shouldn't they also be interviewed, particularly when it is regarding 'raising someone from the dead'? An incident like this would be regarded as at least highly uncommon, therefore scrutiny and validation would be necessary, would it not?
Unless we are all to take this *one* doctor's account on faith. ..... Errmm, ... No. "But he's a doctor, and you aren't, Patterson!"
And I have to be a doctor to know all this as basic fact?? ... I think not!
I stand by what I say.
Rhino,
LOVE that pic, dude!
Maybe that was the 'doctor' they used.
"It is ALIVE!!!"
P.S., "I would say the attending physician that pronounced him dead and/or was prepping him for the morgue, would much rather give the credit to God than be blamed for malpractice. A few more minutes and he could have just buried his mistakes maybe."
Great defense in court, I'd say. "Yer honor! It isn't my fault. The glory goes to God!" ..... Judge comes back with a verdict: "Guilty as charged!".
Sounds like a great Law & Order episode. :P
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anotherDan
some will not believe, even if a person is raised from the dead
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rhino
I just read a story ... I didn't see anyone raised from the dead. Some will believe, even if someone is falsely claimed to be raised from the dead.
Really it is just a matter of checking the veracity of the story. Jeff said he was at his own funeral before he was raised from the dead. So are the dead alive now? How was he at his own funeral, when he was still in the hospital?
The story seems mostly about Crandall drumming up business, if you are a skeptic that has seen previous men of gawd make stuff up to bring in revenue. Where are the other doctors and nurses ... shouldn't this be on NBC if there was any substance to it?
He said almost an hour without a heartbeat. But they said they had worked on him for forty minutes, then unable to revive him ... Doesn't a heart attack usually take a little time? It seems like there is some embellishing.
Now Jeff is probably going to go join a cult ... great ...
I'm all for miracles ... if everyone else agreed with Crandall, it would be national news .. I think.
Here is another source on him. It seems he has raised two others from the dead. He doesn't seem so world reknowned as the article says. He got his MD degree in the Dominican Republic ... is that where they do the voodoo that they do ... and psychic healing? Sounds more fishy the more I read.
That just doesn't seem the direction most world famous cardiologists would have gone to get their MD degree.
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waysider
First, let me say that I DO believe God can raise someone from the dead.
BUT
Medical files are filled with similar incidents.
Wasn't there something in the OT law that required a person to be dead for a certain amount of hours before they were officially considered dead?
I thought that was part of the significance of Jesus being dead for 72 hours before the resurrection.
I could be wrong about that.
It's been a long time since I looked at this stuff.
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Oakspear
I recall Wierwille teaching that "dead for 72 hours" thing, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere else.
Yeah, I don't think that you have to be a doc to see the holes in the story. Personally I don't see anything wrong with crediting one's god for someone being alive when they were written off as dead, but the details remind me of some of the TWI urban legends.
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GarthP2000
Can you say 'degree mill'? ... Yup, the more we read and investigate, the more flaws we see.
And that is one big reason why I will not believe, ... and rightfully so.
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wrdsandwrks
To be fair as to his credentials as a cardiologist I would add the rest of the credentials listed in the article:
He sounds qualified to me.
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doojable
Who's Virginia? Should we be afraid of her? :blink:
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rhino
He may be, I'm just saying it seems fishy he would leave the US to get his medical degree. If he could have gotten in anywhere in the US, I'd think he would have.
"His face his arms his legs were pitch black with death" ... does that really happen in 45 minutes after death? I don't think his face would be black, especially not pitch black. Why say "pitch black with death" unless you are story telling?
And I think he said the body was already decomposing. Does a body start decomposing in 40 minutes? It seems he was trying to make it sound like Lazurus ... he stinketh ...
And the dead guy said he was at his own funeral. So the dead are alive now.
Anyway, perhaps God told him to shock him, but he did not raise him from the dead.
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Sushi
It's Word'Wolf' 's sister. And yes, be afraid, be VERY afraid.
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TheInvisibleDan
On the "being-dead-for-72 hours" thing: it was a belief held among the Zoroastrians, as mentioned in their scriptures the "Zend Avesta", that upon dying, a person's "soul" remained near the corpse for 3 days, "seated" near the head, at the end of which their "spirit" counterpart would come and lead that soul across the "Chinvad Bridge" into the next world.
If a person was good in their life, their "spirit" would be appear to them in the form of Angelina Jolie.
If a person lived an evil life - Hillary Clinton.
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Rocky
I didn't see anyone trying to get you to recant.
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sky4it
Garth, oh my, are you trying to do the things you dont want to or have to do again? How can we help?
Look , perhaps I can make a list of things you dont have to do?
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anotherDan
One of my best friends, and a finer person I never knew, is a thoracic surgeon. A number of years ago, his witness spoke to another surgeon, who is also a local friend. They're workmen, and they're believers, just like me, only I work with building materials, and they work with scalpels and hemostats. They cut stuff out, and mend arteries with artificial veins and stuff. Sometimes they can just take care of business with their special skills, and sometimes they cannot. They believe God heals; they've seen it time and time again. It doesn't matter if they can prove to unbelievers that God works miracles of healing, but it does matter to the people who are healed, and to their family and friends. Miracles are routine in a believer's life. They are a part of the life we have the honor of living.
God is gracious, and heals even scoffers! Go figure!
I'm beyond the Way Ministry paradigm of having all things figured out; if anything, I'm more wondering and awed than I used to be. God does indeed work in mysterious ways. I'm fine with those who choose to nay-say the miraculous. You're welcome to your point of view. But I prefer to be primed for the miraculous should I, God forbid, need a miracle.
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GarthP2000
First off, TWI isn't the standard for those of us who like to 'figure things out' or have 'all things figured out'. We too, are way beyond that.
Two, I prefer to be in the 'figure it out' crowd, for then we don't have to run the unnecessary risk of being scammed, tricked, and screwed by those who just *love* to take advantage of those who so readily 'take it on faith'. Keeping the 'figure it out' function on and open, ie., scrutinizing what we hear, read, and see, is part and parcel of independent thinking for ourselves.
And that we 'scoffers' who are so skeptical and being of a 'prove it' mindset, ... now we are _scoffed_? <_< Right! ... Look, if it is indeed a genuine miracle, and it happened as told, there should be no real problem proving so. Verifying it. Now this is what I like about the current Catholic process; whenever they are told of some 'miracle', they send out a team to investigate the matter, and endeavor to verify that it is indeed a miracle, rather than some bogus claim. (And no, I don't believe in Catholic doctrine, nor do I believe in their 'miracles' either. But I do respect that they make at least an attempt to thoroughly investigate the matter, ... which is a helluva lot more than I can say for a lot of televangelical ministers who advertise 'miracles' going on in their churches. "Read more about it, ... for a Love Offering of only $39.95".
)
So yes, I am indeed a scoffer, and am proud of it!
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TheInvisibleDan
In all fairness, Robert Tilton never charged me a cent for the sealed plastic bag of miraculous "Holy Water" (amounting to about 10 C.C.) and 12 colored envelopes in which to stuff checks if ever the "Holy Ghost" convulsed me to do so. And for the thin vinyl hanky into which to blow my nose and send back to him that he mayeth lay hands upon it.
And for the poster of his squinting countenance, raising his holy hand as if from the other side of a TV screen. It's hangs on my garage wall with some of my other old comics.
The holy water has long since evaporated inside the package.
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anotherDan
like I said, Garth, I respect your point of view
as a matter of fact, I join you in loathing those who would take advantage of the gullible and foolish
they give faith a bad name, but that's all a part of this thing
spiritual matters, miracles, the reality of the redemption of mankind at the cross, are matters settled in my heart as "verifiable" -- that is, to my satisfaction
perhaps my standards are lower than yours; I don't think so, but I'm willing to accept that as a possibility
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Neo
IT IS ALIVE!!!
Just thought this needed repeating!
Exodus 12:30
Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.
Doesn't take much!
With that said, I think we need to look for the profit in all of this.
Oh well, just my thoughts.
Neo
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