wierwille's stories in pfal

[Ham]

Could have been one of your shill witnessing events you describe, Waysider..

you know.. an Indian official on the train.. herr manogawd.. and a supposed lame man paid five american bucks (probably a fortune in those days) to illustrate the "gweatness" of da word available to them..

I find it vewy vewy interesting he omits the man's name..

apparently that was not "important".. what was.. was the supposed guy's position..

so self-serving, no?

[Ham]

it would be rather "profitable" (ahem, choke, excuse me..) to go back and interview this un-named Indian Official..

so we deal with yet another breach of honesty and documentation..

he's quoted *somebody*'s words, and did not credit the source..

I'm trying.. but I just can't find one "right" concept in this situation..

[Ham]

Interesting.. I feel like I've been a moron..

Have you read the preface in Bullinger's "How to Enjoy the Bible"?

this KIND of dialog is really not much different than Bullinger's description of his *high government* new *friends*..

very, very interesting, at least to me..

he left them un-named. For politically convenient reasons of course..

the whole point was: *they* sought Bullinger out, for the *gweatness* of da wordagawd he had to offer..

I'm starting to have a lesser regard for *Dr* (though he really was, unlike this pseudo 20th century counterpart) Bullinger..

he gets some respect from me though..

unless I learn different..

[Ham]

what I find astounding.. people actually ask "why are you going over the SAME FREAKING STUFF, year after stinking year..

there are whole new sets of possibilities.. whole different levels of deception and reality..

with the same set of facts (call them truths if you wish)..

[Ham]

my first few days in Real Analysis..

the instructor is *wonderful*..

"now this is OK with you all?"

Gawd.. at least he asks..

I can't figure out what is a legitimate *question* in this to begin with..

"yeah.. we're *OK*.."

but I'm starting to get it..

last lecture I could actually follow what he was saying..

vewy, vewy scary..

I think it is the "make or break" point in mathematics..

It's the "same freaking stuff".. but on a whole different level..

we take off the training wheels.. the best I understand..

[frank123lol]

If you refer to "the same freakin stuff"to herr wierwille and pfal,I get that,Now the bible?

Well,that is a horse of another color,I think a man can "miss it"and get the religious cult,stuff a life time.

understanding the scripture?Takes faith,somthing you just gotta have,what works for one certainly will not work for another.

Hence the same freakin stuff,we were all trained to be the same response,same obedience,heck for the guys same haicut suit and stupid smile,girls,dress,

obedience to the one in charge.

The founding fathers,Washington,Jefferson,Adams,even ole Tom Paine had morales,standards beliefs that were uncompromsing.

Heck,It founded a country!Was it copied?Yep ,several sources ,From native americans to the Brits,France,Germany,Netherlands.

Certainly it was not stolen,as said wierwille.Even the supreme court in the early days,the judjements were premises from the bible.

One good thing about mathematics,science,is without respect to countries,religions causes.

[Ham]

I was thinking of the "just get over it" suggestion some offer.

the whole problem with that is, if one is living and learning, one is generally offered a different set of tools to analyze the "problem" year after year..

I've looked at some things I posted a few years ago, and it looks pretty trivial.

I don't think a person "gets over it".. just often gets another set of tools to honestly take a look at the experience..

[frank123lol]

Yeah,The "get over it" thing is a blanket,I gotta deal with real problems,to come up with real solutions.

Thw "way'likes to hide stuff,and shuffle things under the door.

[waysider]

While it was not in the PFAL class, Wierwille often boasted that he invented the "hook shot".

**************************************

Goose Tatum

From Hoopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Reece "Goose" Tatum (May 31, 1921 – January 18, 1967) was an African American multi-sport athlete.

Born in El Dorado, Arkansas, Tatum played Negro League Baseball before becoming a star basketball player with the Harlem Globetrotters. He is considered to be the original "clown prince" of the Trotters. He wove numerous comic routines into his play, of which many would reach cult status. Some of these routines were based on his stature -- it is reported that he had an arm span of about 84 inches and could touch his kneecaps without bending.

He is credited with having invented the hook shot, sometimes called the skyhook, a shot for which superstar Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would become famous.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Goose_Tatum

Edited September 6, 2009 by waysider

[WordWolf]

The supposed incident on the train....

Orange Book,

pg-29-31.

=========

Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness

of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady

who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses

which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the

miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore,

hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus,

wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special

powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day. They felt that if I just laid

my hands on them, they too would be delivered. Just before the train on which we were traveling moved

out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side,

ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately

added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus."

What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God

will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him,

"Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in

your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ.

When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both

of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little,

he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said,

"Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ."

At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master

who wanted to come and meet the man of God.

He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament

in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment

to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event

that he had ever witnessed- that

a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were

Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India,

the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's

Word. "

=================================

[Here's my thoughts on the account...]

Orange Book,

pg-29-31.

=========

"Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness

of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady

who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses

which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the

miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore,

hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus,

wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special

powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day."

[so,

we have vpw himself praying for the woman, and she was delivered.

Within 24 hours, there was a crowd looking for healing.

And they were non-believers, Hindus, who all just happened to hear about this,

and believed it such that they showed up in a crowd.

Could have happened.

Presuming he prayed and she was delivered.]

"They felt that if I just laid my hands on them, they too would be delivered."

[i'm unsure of Hindu beliefs in India enough to know if this is typical.]

"Just before the train on which we were traveling moved

out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side,

ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately

added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus." "

[supposing this is true,

there was a crowd, and the majority of the people would have been low-caste.

The high-caste guy was willing to shove his way through a crowd of low-caste people,

and thus being in physical contact with them, to shove through them and get to the

front of the group, on the chance that this guy could help him.

Forgive me, I can't picture this guy having the strength to shove through-unless he could

use both arms.]

"What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God

will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him,

"Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in

your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ.

When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both

of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little,

he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said,

"Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." "

[so, God was fine with this healing. And it was instant. And vpw was preaching from the back of

the train. And allowed to stand there-WITH A CROWD SURROUNDING THE BACK OF THE TRAIN-

while the train prepared to move. And he was allowed to be in physical contact with someone

on the ground as the train is moving forward.

I just don't think the trains in India are run that badly.

It's too cinematic.

The only thing we're missing is the train whistle and sunlight breaking out from the clouds.]

"At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master

who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament

in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment

to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event

that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were

Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India,

the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's

Word. "

[And a guy in the train was able to see what happened completely in the back of the train, with his own

eyes.

And had influence in ALL OF INDIA.

And gave vpw a standing invitation to come minister and teach in ALL OF INDIA.

And gave him the keys to New Delhi based entirely on an incident NOT in New Delhi.

And vpw remembered all this, but never followed up in India despite having an open door.

This sounds scripted to me. And not scripted WELL, either.]

[None of us ever got to see a display with the key to the city even.

Funny how the man who name-dropped all over his personal history suddenly

stops naming names when he got to THIS story.

That's what happened when we got the made-up story about the 2 men who gave generously

to charities and were hated in their community, but they secretly sat in a room and

exercised their mysterious believing-power to illustrate vpw's fictional "law" of believing.

The woman who murdered her child with her fear didn't have a name, either.

I know someone once claimed to see photos of the incident- photos which, BTW, contradict

vpw's account since the order of events is all wrong. However, no matter WHAT was in

the 2 photos, this entire story seems like it's nearly all- or all- invented from

whole cloth. Someone claimed this sounded partly like a movie about Lincoln they saw once.

Perhaps something from that movie, plus something from someone else's ministry in India

(E.Stanley Jones?)]

[waysider]

Yes, it sounds remarkably like Wierwille stitched together bits and pieces of things he encountered in the writings of Eli Stanley Jones, who spent many years in India. Even Wierwille's concept of the "Advance" is curiously similar to the Ashrams that Jones fashioned after the better known Hindi model. Here is an interesting link to some information on E. S. Jones that contains a noteworthy podcast. Listen and see if you spot any similarities to content and style, with a special emphasis being placed on sessions 11 and 12 of PFAL.

http://www.asbury.edu/archives/bios/e-stanley-jones

Oops!

I meant this link:

http://methodistthinker.com/2009/05/04/podcast-dr-e-stanley-jones-on-the-gift-of-the-holy-spirit/

Edited September 6, 2009 by waysider