wierwille's stories in pfal

[skyrider]

Some 40 years ago, wierwille sat at a desk and the pfal class was filmed.

When scriptural references fell short of his "law of believing" doctrine.....wierwille improvised: he embellished vivid stories to "drive those poignant nails" that coffin his doctrine. Two stories that made lasting impression on students were 1) a mother's fear that killed her little boy and 2) red drapes.

Even to this day......vpw-defenders staunchly support these stories, these made-up accounts that helped propel those 60s/early 70s current movements of *the magic of believing*.......*think and grow rich*..........*life is tremendous*..

What about wierwille's other stories in pfal?.......the drunk who came to church.....and wierwille said that he repented and would NEVER teach another NEGATIVE sermon? Yeah, right......

Or, the story about taking some 3,000 commentaries and publications to the local dump (ghenna).....yet, there is undisputable evidence that wierwille heavily plagairized many sources. And for that matter.......why didn't wierwille take his dog-porno video to the dump?

Or, the story where vpw met with another minister/biblical scholar and talked about what they were seeing....yet, on the other side of the English Channel that guy could explain things to wierwille in 30 minutes.

Stories, on the fly, intermixed with biblical research??.......yet, when put to the task of teaching at PFAL '77 wierwille, at age 60, couldn't muster the hype and inter-meshed stories that intrigued an older AND SMARTER audience.

<_<

[doojable]

Some 40 years ago, wierwille sat at a desk and the pfal class was filmed.

When scriptural references fell short of his "law of believing" doctrine.....wierwille improvised: he embellished vivid stories to "drive those poignant nails" that coffin his doctrine. Two stories that made lasting impression on students were 1) a mother's fear that killed her little boy and 2) red drapes.

Even to this day......vpw-defenders staunchly support these stories, these made-up accounts that helped propel those 60s/early 70s current movements of *the magic of believing*.......*think and grow rich*..........*life is tremendous*..

What about wierwille's other stories in pfal?.......the drunk who came to church.....and wierwille said that he repented and would NEVER teach another NEGATIVE sermon? Yeah, right......

Or, the story about taking some 3,000 commentaries and publications to the local dump (ghenna).....yet, there is undisputable evidence that wierwille heavily plagairized many sources. And for that matter.......why didn't wierwille take his dog-porno video to the dump?

Or, the story where vpw met with another minister/biblical scholar and talked about what they were seeing....yet, on the other side of the English Channel that guy could explain things to wierwille in 30 minutes.

I wonder how many of these stories were his to begin with.

And.... I wonder if this was the reason for all the theatrical vignettes Adv Class'79.:

Stories, on the fly, intermixed with biblical research??.......yet, when put to the task of teaching at PFAL '77 wierwille, at age 60, couldn't muster the hype and inter-meshed stories that intrigued an older AND SMARTER audience.

<_<

[skyrider]

I wonder how many of these stories were his to begin with.

In the Advanced Class.........the ALLEGED *stories* took on a higher ante wherein wierwille battled the forces of evil......the white-heart/black-heart story.....the shutting down the psychic at the county fair......the secret revelations that wierwille has YET to tell a soul.

Where is WhiteDove??.....when THESE alleged versions surface and not one witness or one shred of evidence is in sight????

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I'm glad he didn't get paid for his STOWRIES.

Oh, wait.

He did. <_<

George

[doojable]

In the Advanced Class.........the ALLEGED *stories* took on a higher ante wherein wierwille battled the forces of evil......the white-heart/black-heart story.....the shutting down the psychic at the county fair......the secret revelations that wierwille has YET to tell a soul.

Where is WhiteDove??.....when THESE alleged versions surface and not one witness or one shred of evidence is in sight????

Looks like we need an hero....

:evildenk:

Faster than a speeding bullet.(allegedly)

More powerful than a locomotive.(allegedly)

Able to leap tall tales in a single bound. (alle...well maybe that's been documented)

Look! Up in the sky!

It's a bird! It's white! It's WhiteDove!(allegedly)

Yes, it's WhiteDove - alleged visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. WhiteDove - who allegedly can challenge the stories of many posters, bend threads with his split infinitives, and who, disguised as a Greasespotter, mild mannered defender for an insignificant Ohio Cult leader in New Knoxville, allegedly fights the never ending battle for Truth, and Justice for the Way.

*In accordance with the ASPCA and The Humane Society no actual white doves were hurt in the making of this post*

Edited February 29, 2008 by doojable

[What The Hey]

In the Advanced Class.........the ALLEGED *stories* took on a higher ante wherein wierwille battled the forces of evil......the white-heart/black-heart story.....the shutting down the psychic at the county fair......the secret revelations that wierwille has YET to tell a soul.

Where is WhiteDove??.....when THESE alleged versions surface and not one witness or one shred of evidence is in sight????

Boy, how people really love to use that word: ALLEGED! Well - two can play that game.

Allegedly speaking, all these alleged people allegedly already know what they are alledgedly talking about - while all the other alledged people here they allegedly argue with over those alleged stories allegedly don't.

Edited February 29, 2008 by What The Hey

[doojable]

Boy, how people really love to use that word: ALLEGED! Well - two can play that game.

Allegedly speaking, all these alleged people allegedly already know what they are alledgedly talking about - while all the other alledged people here they allegedly argue with over those alleged stories allegedly don't.

Hello WTH - there's a message for you to come to the front counter. They say they found your sense of humor lying out in the parking lot.

[skyrider]

Boy, how people really love to use that word: ALLEGED! Well - two can play that game.

Allegedly speaking, all these alleged people allegedly already know what they are alledgedly talking about - while all the other alledged people here they allegedly argue with over those alleged stories allegedly don't.

WTH.......you're missing the point.

WhiteDove is the ONE who, repeatedly, demands for "evidence" to support facts or accounts. Most noteably, he likes the word "alleged" when those accounts of vpw/mog are closely associated with sex, rape, drugging, drunkenness, etc.

OK.....carry on.

[excathedra]

it's very sad that he interjected these stories, somehow it worked

some of them had much more of an impact than his long boring 4 crucified etc.

we (meaning me) were so young and naive expecting this man of god to speak for god

[shazdancer]

Good point, sky, that by PFAL '77 we were a little bit older and just a little bit less naive. Just a little, because for me it took another 6 years to be fully out the door.

Loved the jade plant, though.... :D

[WordWolf]

Can we use this thread to discuss all the little stories that vpw told in pfal as completely true?

[mstar1]

we (meaning me) were so young and naive expecting this man of god to speak for god

He kept rambling on about "truth" while telling us tall tales...what a joke...maybe I should have walked down the aisle and kicked him...and you know where

[skyrider]

He kept rambling on about "truth" while telling us tall tales...what a joke...maybe I should have walked down the aisle and kicked him...and you know where

Oh, yeah.......THAT stor-ee. <_<

Why.....I knew my little foot blah, blah, blah....

Or what about that other stor-ee....

My son Donnie started heading for the door.

Why......it's a DISGRACE for ME to have been at this fellowship...this day.

Edited March 1, 2008 by skyrider

[wing]

Remember the other drunk? The one he used an example of being so strong, so confident?

As he told it vp walked around the front of his desk, animating assertiveness and swagger?

The "I can take on anybody" drunk. (... it's been a while, so I don't recall any exact phrases...).

Like excie pointed out, it's sad that he interjected these, and somehow they worked.

I also was so young (an naive), oh yeah! I finally found the truth of the word? But wait,

the teacher is using the behaviour and antics of a drunk to demonstrate an effective good example?

Maybe I need a refresher course. OK class, let's review the qualities of drunkeness. . . and

compare them to qualities of walking de' verd.

[Ham]

maybe the vicster had a tough time distinguishing between the two.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Ham

[doojable]

Was vp's time in India every recorded anywhere else but in Way propaganda material?

The man on the train... "I believe God can heal me but I don't believe in your Jesus..."

Did he do this on his own or just follow someone else around and feed off of them?

Then there was that casting out of devils session spoken about in the Adv class, involving he and the Missus... IIRC she was the one who realized there was one more left ("We're all gone now!") and she was the one who "found" the spirit of infanticide....

Did it happen? Does anyone have any facts? Or is it all hearsay?

[Ham]

The man on the train... "I believe God can heal me but I don't believe in your Jesus..."

And.. SUPPOSING the account happened, not necessarily the way the vicster remembered it..

who can really say the guy wasn't FAKING? I can think of several motives..

or maybe he was just jeering him..

maybe the alleged rejoicing crowd that came to the station was just rejoicing to see the vicster leave town..

[Rocky]

it's very sad that he interjected these stories, somehow it worked

some of them had much more of an impact than his long boring 4 crucified etc.

we (meaning me) were so young and naive expecting this man of god to speak for god

It's okay Excie... you can mean "WE." We WERE so young and naive... Thankfully, WE've grown up now. :)

[waysider]

doojable Posted Today, 01:01 PM

Was vp's time in India every recorded anywhere else but in Way propaganda material?

The man on the train... "I believe God can heal me but I don't believe in your Jesus..."

Did he do this on his own or just follow someone else around and feed off of them?

Then there was that casting out of devils session spoken about in the Adv class, involving he and the Missus... IIRC she was the one who realized there was one more left ("We're all gone now!") and she was the one who "found" the spirit of infanticide....

Did it happen? Does anyone have any facts? Or is it all hearsay

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is my suspicion that the India story may be derived from something VPW found in the writings of E. Stanley Jones, who spent many years in India as a minister.

I have not read a great deal of Jones' writings, but what I have read bares a striking similarity in content and style to VPW's recounting of his experiences in India.

You may recall that it was E. Stanley Jones who is credited with the origin of the quote, "Fear is sand in the machinery of life".

Thus, I believe VP was familiar with the contents of the multitude of writings by Jones.

Perhaps he discovered something in these writings that he could either use in a wholesale manner or found something he could modify to suit his intentions.

I don't have the energy, resources or desire to pursue that possibility to fruition.

Personally, I find it adds to the intrigue and mystique of these events, to suggest that they happened in some far away place in another time. It would seem to be almost impossible to prove or disprove.

On the other hand, it might be entirely possible to prove or disprove whether or not these stories had their origin with Eli Stanley Jones.

The above theory is strictly speculation.

edited to add this:

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if someone were to come along now and suggest that God "told" VPW to use this material as if it really happened to him personally.

Edited March 1, 2008 by waysider

[DontWorryBeHappy]

the only written record i ever saw of the trip to india that vic recounts in plaf was the diary/journal dotsie kept on that trip. the one i saw was a mix of handwritten and typed journal entries, and did not appear to be complete...........it included the "teaching" at the Jaine convention, and the exorcism of the little old lady, but, i do not recall any journal entries about the man at the train station in jabulpuhr(sp?)..........it may have been there, but, as i said, the material i saw did not appear complete. included in that journal i saw was a paper copy of vic's "the dilemma of foreign missions in india"............the little "report" he wrote for his denomination back in the 50's...........it was his response to the severe criticism he received from his denominational hierarchy regarding the "trouble" he caused while in india...............peace.

[excathedra]

what did he do to cause trouble in indian, don ?

[WhiteDove]

Where is WhiteDove??.....when THESE alleged versions surface and not one witness or one shred of evidence is in sight????

Looks like we need an hero....

Faster than a speeding bullet.(allegedly)

More powerful than a locomotive.(allegedly)

Able to leap tall tales in a single bound. (alle...well maybe that's been documented)

Look! Up in the sky!

It's a bird! It's white! It's WhiteDove!(allegedly)

Yes, it's WhiteDove - alleged visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. WhiteDove - who allegedly can challenge the stories of many posters, bend threads with his split infinitives, and who, disguised as a Greasespotter, mild mannered defender for an insignificant Ohio Cult leader in New Knoxville, allegedly fights the never ending battle for Truth, and Justice for the Way.

*In accordance with the ASPCA and The Humane Society no actual white doves were hurt in the making of this post*

WTH.......you're missing the point.

WhiteDove is the ONE who, repeatedly, demands for "evidence" to support facts or accounts. Most noteably, he likes the word "alleged" when those accounts of vpw/mog are closely associated with sex, rape, drugging, drunkenness, etc.

OK.....carry on.

Does my super hearing detect someone calling?......

Holy Tina Turner Robin (who else would a Dove hang out with)

A hero?

We don't need another hero

We don't need to know the way home

All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

So, what do we do with our lives

We leave only a mark

Will our story shine like a light

Or end in the dark

Give it all or nothing

We don't need another hero .........

Are you pulling my tail feathers again?

Riddle me this ....When is alleged really alleged ?

I think I was pretty clear that generally day to day things are for the most part accepted. Case in point.... if one says they had coffee for breakfast, generally it would be accepted as fact without much question. They may or may not have had coffee, but lacking any reason to embellish the story, I think most would accept it. Stories that impugn someone's life and character for the most part I have found people like to have more verification on . Case in point If someone says the President drank coffee this morning most would accept it who really cares? But if one says the President is a thief then generally most people would require some proof to the claim. That would be the difference.....

Second I don't recall VP ever saying that the stories he told were true in every case. But were to illustrate a point. If his stories were A figure of speech...... Parable is used of a story with a hidden meaning, without pressing in every detail. This likeness is generally only in some special point. Parables are used from the resemblance of the one thing to another.

The thing may be true or imaginary but the events must be possible or likely to have happened

At any rate those that hear must believe that they are possible events, though it is not necessary that the speaker should believe them..

Parables often have a misconception that they are to make things clear or plain ,but in truth they are some of the most difficult sections of scripture often to understand.

We have seen from Parables the following:

*it is a story with a hidden meaning

*It is not pressing in every detail

*The likeness is true in one point

*It can be imaginary but the events must be possible

*The speaker does not have to believe them, but the hearer must believe that they are possible.

Most speakers share stories to reinforce their point, I doubt all are true or personal.

Now where is that phone booth ? ............. I have the never ending battle for Truth, and Justice for the Way and humankind to attend to ....allegedly of course......

Edited March 1, 2008 by WhiteDove

[waysider]

E. Stanley Jones

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For other persons named Stan or Stanley Jones, see Stan Jones (disambiguation).

E. Stanley Jones

E. Stanley Jones

E. (Eli) Stanley Jones (1884-1973) was a 20th century Methodist Christian missionary and theologian.

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He is remembered chiefly for his interreligious lectures to the educated classes in India, thousands of which were held across the Indian subcontinent during the first decades of the 20th century. According to his and other contemporary reports, his friendship for the cause of Indian self-determination allowed him to become friends with leaders of the up-and-coming Indian National Congress party. He spent much time with Mahatma Gandhi, and the Nehru family. Gandhi challenged Jones and, through Jones' writing, the thousands of Western missionaries working there during the last decades of the British Raj, to include greater respect for the mindset and strengths of the Indian character in their work.

This effort to contextualize Christianity for India was the subject of his seminal work, The Christ of the Indian Road (ISBN 0-687-06377-9), which sold more than 1 million copies worldwide after its publication in 1925.

He is also the founder of the Christian Ashram movement. He is sometimes considered the "Billy Graham of India".

[edit] Writings

A unique feature of some of his books (eg, Abundant Living, ©1942) is that while they could be read from beginning to end as normal, they were presented in the format of a page-a-day daily reading featuring a Bible reference, a page of his writing, and a concluding sentence or phrase for meditation.

These are the British publishers' titles; American titles may be different.

Books:

The Christ of the Indian Road (1925)

Christ at the Round Table (1928)

The Christ of Every Road – A study in Pentecost (1930)

The Christ of the Mount – A Working Philosophy of Life (1931)

Christ and Human Suffering (1933)

Christ’s Alternative to Communism (1935) US title

Christ and Communism (1935) UK title

Victorious Living (1936) (devotional)

The Choice Before Us (1937)

Christ and Present World Issues (1937)

Along the Indian Road (1939)

Is the Kingdom of God Realism? (1940)

Abundant Living (1942) (devotional)

How to Pray (1943)

The Christ of the American Road (1944)

The Way (1946) (devotional)

Mahatma Gandhi: An Interpretation (1948); 2nd ed.: Gandhi – Portrayal of a Friend (Abingdon, 1993)

The Way to Power and Poise (1949) (devotional)

How to be a Transformed Person (1951) (devotional)

Growing Spiritually (1953) (devotional)

Mastery (1953) (devotional)

Christian Maturity (1957) (devotional)

Conversion (1959)

In Christ (1961) (devotional)

The Word Became Flesh (1963) (devotional)

Victory Through Surrender (1966)

Song of Ascents (1968) (autobiography)

The Unshakable Kingdom and the Unchanging Person (1972)

The Reconstruction of the Church – On what Pattern? (1970)

The Divine Yes (1975) (posthumously)

Compilations:

Sayings of E Stanley Jones – A Treasury of Wisdom and Wit (1994)

Compiled and edited by Whitney J Dough

Selections from E Stanley Jones – Christ and Human Need (1971?)

Compiled by Eunice Jones Mathews and James K Mathews

[edit] External links

* United Christian Ashrams

* Asbury College - E. Stanley Jones's alma mater

* Jones Bio at Asbury College Archives

[edit] Secondary Sources

The Missionary of the Indian Road (Bangalore, Theological Book Trust, 1996)

by Paul A. J. Martin, (Based on a Cambridge University Thesis.)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Stanley_Jones"

Categories: 1881 births | 1973 deaths | Methodist theologians | Christian missions | American theologians | Christianity in India | Methodist evangelists | American Evangelicals | Methodist missionaries in India | Methodist writers | Burials at Mount Olivet Cemetery (Baltimore) | American evangelists | American Methodists

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Please note the sections I have bolded.

[WhiteDove]

Mrs. Wierwille records the date of the man with the hand who was healed as Monday January 23d 1955 perhaps the Jabalpur paper would have a record.

Ha one trouble he caused was at St. Luke's church in Jabalpur , they fumigated the church after the service there where VP taught The Blessings from God Ephesians 5. , to rid it of any vestiges of their presence.

Edited March 1, 2008 by WhiteDove

[waysider]

Mrs. Wierwille records the date of the man with the hand who was healed as Monday January 23d 1955 perhaps the Jabalpur paper would have a record.

Now there's a thought.

They gave him a key to the city.

That's a pretty noteworthy news event.

I'll bet it's a piece of cake to research the Jabalpur Daily Gazette from 1/23/1955.