BODY & SOUL

[RachelYsrael]

Helloooo....

One the thread Are the Dead Alive Now there was a discussion about what the soul is. I read some very interseting comments about what people think the soul is, and I wanted to share what the Bible says about it. I know that many, when referring to "soul" consider it to be an essence or some other intangible thing, but as you all know about me by now, I am really into what the Bible says about stuff, so I want to share with you all some verses about the soul, and soul life.

I have come to believe the way teaching on three-fold man - Body, Soul and Spirit - is up there with the earth being flat and the moon being made of cheese. I understand the reasoning behind the soul as the essence of man, and I believe that to be self-awareness, consciousness - The knowledge of ourselves. The thing that "They" say makes us better than an animal. (As I think about this, I realize it may be the knowledge that we die). Anyway, here it is Gang...

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here is the first usage of soul in the Book. Adam had no life in him, then God breathed into him and he became a Living Soul, as opposed to a dead one.

Gen 34:2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

Gen 34:3 And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.

In this second example, Shecem had sex with Dinah. It says his SOUL clave to her. And it did, when they were getting it on...Clave literally means to cling to and stick together with.(Yummy)

Lev 7:20 But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

In this last example, it says a soul can eat...It also says if a soul eats a sacrifice while being unclean would be cut off from his people. Literally that means to be expelled from the city.

Now, I have absolutely no issue with the opinion that that the soul is seperate from the body, part of the so called 3-fold being. If folks believe that - Great. But it is not biblical. The Bible does not teach that the soul is somehow seperate from the body. It teaches that the soul is the body.

There are 453 usages of soul, and 98% of them read like these 3 examples. I think Roy cited a verse where Jesus said (Mat 10:28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I see that in this verse 2 different words are used for body and soul, and they do not mean the same thing. After really looking at this, I think (I may be wrong) that someone can literally kill your physical body, but not what you stand for - Your HEART, whether it be good or evil. Don't fear man. But rather fear God Almighty, because he can kill your body, raise you up and put you in the Lake of Fire or the Kingdom of God with your essence - What you stand for, whether it be Good or Evil.

The word for soul in Matthew is the same word used here for heart:

Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

And here for mind:

Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

So, while Jesus referred to the soul in Matthew 10 as something distinct from the body, I don't think it was talking about something seperate from the living person or in the case of "mind" but a will to do something, whether it be good or evil.

I want you all to know I really enjoy the Cafe and all of the diners.

Peace,

Rachel

[brideofjc]

Helloooo....

One the thread Are the Dead Alive Now there was a discussion about what the soul is. I read some very interseting comments about what people think the soul is, and I wanted to share what the Bible says about it. I know that many, when referring to "soul" consider it to be an essence or some other intangible thing, but as you all know about me by now, I am really into what the Bible says about stuff, so I want to share with you all some verses about the soul, and soul life.

I have come to believe the way teaching on three-fold man - Body, Soul and Spirit - is up there with the earth being flat and the moon being made of cheese.

Well, then you had better throw away your Bible, Rachel. Cuz, it's in there! Although to be more accurate, TWI didn't truly teach a trichotomist view,

they only taught a quasi-tri view because they failed to acknowledge that mankind also has his own spirit. What died the day that they sinned was the connection point

to the Holy Father, and that was HOLY SPIRIT. Not their own little 's' spirit, but the one and only, HOLY SPIRIT.

I understand the reasoning behind the soul as the essence of man, and I believe that to be self-awareness, consciousness - The knowledge of ourselves. The thing that "They" say makes us better than an animal. (As I think about this, I realize it may be the knowledge that we die). Anyway, here it is Gang...

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here is the first usage of soul in the Book. Adam had no life in him, then God breathed into him and he became a Living Soul, as opposed to a dead one.

Yes, Rachel and you should have read what I wrote to T-Bone. God had to BREATHE (His Spirit) into that hunk of clay AND THEN man became

a LIVING SOUL. If BODY IS SOUL, then as soon as God formed man out of the dust of the ground, ADAM should have already been alive. You know, I think God knew

what He was doing, Rachel.

Gen 34:2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

Gen 34:3 And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.

Yes, and to LOVE someone and be attracted to them happens in the SOUL AREA. The BODY merely performed the ACT OF SEX, but HE LOVED her with

HIS SOUL.

In this second example, Shecem had sex with Dinah. It says his SOUL clave to her. And it did, when they were getting it on...Clave literally means to cling to and stick together with.(Yummy)

Yes, 95% of the sex act happens in the SOUL AREA. That's why if a man doesn't ENGAGE a woman's SOUL or mind, she can just lie there like a piece of wood

no matter what HE DOES WITH HIS BODY.

Lev 7:20 But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Where does SIN happen, Rachel. Didn't the Lord Jesus say that SIN first happened in the HEART? And then worked itself out into the BODY? Yup!

In this last example, it says a soul can eat...It also says if a soul eats a sacrifice while being unclean would be cut off from his people. Literally that means to be expelled from the city.

Now, I have absolutely no issue with the opinion that that the soul is seperate from the body, part of the so called 3-fold being. If folks believe that - Great. But it is not biblical. The Bible does not teach that the soul is somehow seperate from the body. It teaches that the soul is the body.

No, it does not Rachel. You can't have an acknowledgement from the Lord Jesus that the body and soul are separate and then say it is not Biblical.

I think I would rather heed what the Lord Jesus is saying and I think you should too. It really is in black and white; that is in print form.

There are 453 usages of soul, and 98% of them read like these 3 examples. I think Roy cited a verse where Jesus said (Mat 10:28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I see that in this verse 2 different words are used for body and soul, and they do not mean the same thing. After really looking at this, I think (I may be wrong) that someone can literally kill your physical body, but not what you stand for - Your HEART, whether it be good or evil. Don't fear man. But rather fear God Almighty, because he can kill your body, raise you up and put you in the Lake of Fire or the Kingdom of God with your essence - What you stand for, whether it be Good or Evil.

IF BODY AND SOUL ARE THE ONE AND THE SAME THING, HOW CAN YOU KILL THE BODY, BUT NOT THE SOUL? The heart (not the pumping one) is the

SOUL and this is what the Lord Jesus was talking about.

The word for soul in Matthew is the same word used here for heart:

Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

And here for mind:

Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

So, while Jesus referred to the soul in Matthew 10 as something distinct from the body, I don't think it was talking about something seperate from the living person or in the case of "mind" but a will to do something, whether it be good or evil.

You're right, Rachel, that is why when the body DIES, the SOUL can be said TO HAVE DIED, because it has no venue in which to be seen anymore. It is the

SPIRIT of mankind INTERACTING with FLESH that then PRODUCES THE SOUL.

I want you all to know I really enjoy the Cafe and all of the diners.

Peace,

Rachel

Yes, and God Bless you as well, Sister. I love you and study hard. Be willing to be under the tutelage of the HOLY SPIRIT and HE will lead

you into all TRUTH, evan as promised in the Gospel of John.

[cman]

So Rachel, when your body returns to dust, so does your soul?

[RachelYsrael]

So Rachel, when your body returns to dust, so does your soul?

Does the soul that sins surely die?

I am just pointing out biblical usages of the words you all choose to discuss. I have no problem with your beliefs or opinions about them. If the Book says man became a living soul, eight souls were saved by water, and a soul can eat, on and on 453 times re-affirming that the soul is the literal body, that's what I believe.

Now, if you want to confuse the spirit that is in man (His will and nature, which is to sin) Then that is something altogether different. And as to Adam being cut off from God after he sinned, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding on that. I see God talking to man after the fall - else there would be no book written. What happened to Adam after he sinned was he became mortal. He died. The bible says he died that very day. A day to the Lord is as 1000 years. No man has lived 1000 years - very close but not that long. Man did not lose Holy Spirit, or Adam if you will.

If you read the account of the sons of God in the gospel, there is a clear line from Adam to Jesus. Now Cain was cut off. After the the flood there are no more decednants from him. But God continued to talk with Adam and his progeny until this day.

What was lost in the fall was the ability RIGHT THEN to live forever. We still have that ability, if we live the way the Lord directs, we will be rewarded. The Genesis story says God put the man out of the Garden of Eden so that he would not become like them, and live forever. He (God) Put cheribums to guard the Tree of Life, right? Now this is interesting because the Tree of Life shows up again in Revelation. What Adam lost the right to in Genesis is resored in Revelation, which was always the Will of God - For man to become as God is.

Rachel

[RachelYsrael]

Here are some things on that Spirit of Man, and I notice that what BJC says is validated here in Eccl.

as well as what I say. (See - I admit it when a point other than mine is made )

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecc 3:22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

The writer is talking about death here, and man being no better than an animal in regards to death, for all do it. I am mildly suprised also that in this passage (3:20) it says that all go to one place, dust to dust. But that spirit of man goes upward, while the spirit of beast down...

Here is Strong's Upward:

H4605

מעל

ma‛al

mah'-al

From H5927; properly the upper part, used only adverbially with prefix upward, above, overhead, from the top, etc.: - above, exceeding (-ly), forward, on (X very) high, over, up (-on, -ward), very.

Here is Stong's Downward:

H4295

מטּה

maṭṭâh

mat'-taw

From H5786 with directive enclitic appended; downward, below or beneath; often adverbially with or without prefixes: - beneath, down (-ward), less, very low, under (-neath).

I don't know what the hell that means comparitively. I think it may mean because a beast is a beast and man a man, the man has more honor than a beast so that spirit goes off into Big Blue, while the beast spirit goes with Great Lord Kimbo, Ruler of the Underworld. I just don't know. But I do know and have a clear understanding of what I do know about them both returning to dust. If you all know more than what it says, great. I will ask Him when I get there what the real deal is actually.Not making light of my ignorance, just stating and acknowledging it.

[cman]

Looks like the dust, the spirit of man, and the spirit of the beast, all go to one place as it seems to say.

Who shall bring him (dust, man and beast) to see what shall be after him?

[year2027]

God first

Beloved RachelYsrael

God loves you my dear friend

I blessed to read your understandings

but let me sit here and blow a trumpet of words for a small space of internet world

When man dies man goes back to where man came from so of a truth I could say dust when the new heaven and earth is here and the old is past away dust will have to go back to God

As will soul if it is the oxygen in our blood but if its something other it will still have to go back to God

one could say man is dust, water, air, space, image, gas, iron, light, darkness and if I had time I could fill this page

so I have a 9 fold man

I believe man is 1 fold, 2 fold, 3 fold ...... 1,000,000,000,000 fold 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,- 000,000,000,000,000, fold man and *.* fold man

but my bible is on the other part of my computer

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

Edited February 19, 2008 by year2027

[Mark Clarke]

I agree with you, Rachel. The whole "body, soul, and spirit" teaching that TWI had was incorrect, I believe. Man does not HAVE a soul, man IS a soul. A soul is a living, breathing being. He became that when God breathed into him the breath of life. When a man dies, his body returns to the earth (dust), and his breath of life returns to God. But his breath, or life force, is not his "consciousness." This is why people get confused about about someone's "soul" going to "heaven."

[cheranne]

all we are is dust in the wind.....(song)

[Mark Clarke]

all we are is dust in the wind.....(song)

...until the resurrection. (Good song, though!)