Here we go again..

[Ham]

And to the "old geezers" on the "board", I say:

If it's just a matter of midlife crisis, or change or something..

go to the local store, get a bottle of "herbal calm" or something.. figure out how to ride the wave of the hormones and brain chemicals. Worked for me. Though some may need something a little "stronger"..

:)

Then go back to school or something.. get a hobby..

get a degree maybe.. make a REAL difference for somebody.. even if it's secular..

being a fifty some year old "waysRus" kid is kinda pathetic..

the bible will actually STILL be around fifty or so years from now, despite your efforts or lack therof.

[Ham]

Having to explain to someone in admissions that you put off getting a degree, in what you're REALLY good at until you're fifty because you p*ssed away twenty five years in a "religious group" (note that I'm being kind here) isn't really all so bad..

[frank123lol]

In a resume I wrote that I was in a relgious group but had moved on to

other things in the community.

I like the old geezer comments,This new generation otter think for thierslves hey?

Nothing new under the sun.

I keep this up Ill be marked and avoided before I even go to a meeting!HeHe

[Ham]

Friggin idjits.. feeding his ego so it'll grow big and strong like the old man's..

If one finds oneself with "no friends when it comes to da word.." I really think one finds oneself without friends. At least REAL friends..

Sadly, I don't see how one at a "youthful" or "feeblehearted" stage of character or development can resist this kind of nonsense..

[frank123lol]

No disrespect to the little group they have ,Maybe Vpw2 will pull it off

Now the old geezers,Well perhaps they should have looked deeper at thier old

'father in the word".A for instance my dear ole dad drank alot,he was blitzed more often than not.

Do I hold anything against him?No I do notBut I do not drink and carry on either.

Da vey and da father of the way needs to be scrutinzed.Mayhap we as individuals were commisioned to do that very thing.

Any group,That carries on traditions of der vey,Needs no should demand they start fresh

cff,ces whatever likes the traditions I know for some it is blood,Still... Not dealing with past wrong is still wrong

[Ham]

The other thing I was thinking.. I can almost hear their argument..

"wayulll, we have a WHOLE COMMITTEE over this thing.. NEVER would be the same as the old way"

want to bet?

Look at CES. They had what.. how many people on the board.. and STILL it turned into an elite "prophcies and momentus R us" club..

what makes you think a committee makes any kind of difference.

So you all are "of one mind".. "one accord" as far as what you PERCEIVE to be the Word of God.

Tyranny really is the same, whether it is practiced by a dictator, or a board of five people who tow the line.

[Ham]

Ya know..

the discipline and focus you beat into people very well may one day turn against you..

[Ham]

What if the people running the place get more than a little "wacky"?

Some of the same people on "staff" bought into vic's assertions that the u.s. was going to be taken over in 1976.. it was almost hysteria..

they probably STILL think that if it wasn't for vic's "greatness" that it would have happened..

then there was what.. 79 some kinda takeover or something.. people hoarding food, gasoline.. ammunition.. and his "greatness" saved us once again..

I would imagine at least ONE of them sat and listened with "ears of believing" as loy described how the pope was arming himself to the teeth, buying an aircraft carrier, and setting on a new inquisition, this time, in the west..

When I ask about qualifications, I think I have good reason.

If their "experience" is corps training.. being around the "master".. I better not say.

I wonder if they'll roust the trainees up to have little emergency meetings in the middle of the night.. where the world's coming to an end, if they don't muster up enough believing or something.. people crying.. dogs barking..

It's part of the "corps" experience ya know..

[skyrider]

I wonder if they'll roust the trainees up to have little emergency meetings in the middle of the night.. where the world's coming to an end, if they don't muster up enough believing or something.. people crying.. dogs barking..

It's part of the "corps" experience ya know..

Ham.......doncha know that those 'bless patrol' manueverings, while speaking in tongues, kept the sky from falling, the enemy from invading, the united states from being taken over and monitored the late-night activities of any corps on grounds.....all at the same time.

Why wouldn't the next "corps experience" copy-cat THAT success?

[Ham]

I wonder if they've written a mission statement yet. I'll volunteer:

"Fearlessly building agression in *believers* since 1942.."

[Ham]

I wonder if they will get evaluations like this in twenty five years..

I thought about it for over twenty years. Always striving for one more ounce of "mastery" of the materials, the classes.. "it's GOTTA be in there SOMEWHERE". Watching "the adversary's tricks" lest I should think vic's oil to be that of snake.. We even had little coordinator meetings trying to analyze where people "must be missing it".. after all, it supposedly worked for the vicster. Supposed to be easy as "falling off a log backwards".

I honestly think some of us were kicked out of twi because we were just an embarrassment. Some of us really BELIEVED it would work, using the same futile methods over, and over, and over.. it's bad advertising, ya know. Can't have sickness, weakness, or lack of "results" in da promised land. It damages the goods in the public eye. They need someone young, healthy, employed, and with a full set of teeth.

So where's the payoff? Now, maybe YOU saw the miraculous, the dead raised, healings.. money rain from heaven.. like the "teacher" PROMISED..

but, I didn't.

Over twenty years of futile effort, probably close to $75,000 or more in abs. Probably several years of time in volunteered labor. And at the end.. practically nothing to show for it. In a dead end job, going back to school in hopes of fulfilling my original life's dream. Don't think I'm moaning and complaining.. I can just take an honest look at it.

That's pretty much what people are asking others to forgive for. I honestly can't demand that of anyone.

[Ham]

I may not go to your church anymore, but when I ask for a few details, I DO personally have a few good reasons..

:)

[Ham]

Here's a review from Rascal on another thread. She debates the fact whether the founder of the "parent" lookalike organization was even a Christian:

I think to label him as a christian is giving him WAY to much credit. To treat him with the respect and love due a brother in Christ when the fruit that we were told we would recognize one another was conspicuously absent through out his life, is I believe a mistake

I think the situation here is a lot like a producers trying to resurrect a bad play on Broadway. The producers very well may name the newspaper who hosted the original show's critic's reviews a "vomitorium" as well.

go ahead..

blood isn't on MY hands.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Ham

[Ham]

Another evaluation from WordsandWorks on an old thread..

When I saw her at Emporia, she was almost starving to death, I mean that literally. You see, apparently the wonderful compassionate people of the Way Corps were determined to not help her in any way. So she would sit at the meal table and not be able to eat because she couldn’t see the food. No one offered to help her. I couldn’t believe it. I remember sitting with her and helping her by telling her what was on her plate and where it was and she was finally able to eat. She had no training in coping skills that a person who loses their sight normally gets by going to life-skill training classes, so she was completely on her own.

The worst thing I observed when I was there with her was at a Corps night. The poor dear was still wearing her glasses even though she couldn’t see. She still took her Bible to Corps night and tried to follow along. But since she couldn’t see she was not looking at her Bible when LCM was teaching. She was looking up. He noticed her and starting ranting at her about why wasn’t she looking at her Bible. He tore her apart and she was a mess when he made her answer his question. She said she couldn’t see and he tore into her about her lack of believing and how she was weak and she should be looking at the book, yada, yada, yada. It was one of the cruelest things I’ve ever observed.

Umm.. this was in the "good old days" of "doc"'s reign.. part of the corps "experience"..

and to think that I or anyone else was conned to think sponsoring people into that boiling pot of human flesh was actually the godly thing to do..

[Ham]

The real problem I have with this is.. how many other people were there in the room at the time?

I'm not blaming them, but I find it VERY disturbing that a coupla hundred people were either intimidated into silence, or somehow convinced that this was some kind of godly action for a supposed LEADER to take.

I think a lot knew.. anyone who spoke up, loy would have his thugs run them off the property with barely the clothes on their back..

yep. Let's bring those days back..

[Ham]

When I ask "where are the checks and balances".. "where are the safeguards".. I really DO have a good, logical reason..

[Ham]

At this point, I have real objections to a system with no accountability at the top.. power to pass summary judgement over other people's lives, no matter how "nice a guy" you are, no matter how "honorable" the motive may be.

ESPECIALLY a twenty some year old snot-nosed kid.. LITTLE real life experience..

[Ham]

Even more objectionable than a snot nosed kid having summary power over people's lives, is a handful of 3/4 through their life geezers with visions of reliving their lost youth with that same power.

I find it kind of pathetic..

look guys.. you had your chance once.. I put my time in wayworld too. And today I have little to really show for it. So stinking what.. is that too much darkness to face?

---------------------------------

But what's the point of HAVING the power of summary judgement, unless one does not intend to USE IT?

What's the justification? You just want it to keep it tucked in your back pocket, in case of an "emergency" or something?

Knowing human nature.. I DON'T THINK SO.

[Ham]

and the other thing "board".. who's idea was it to hold a wild card to dismiss people at the drop of a hat?

Somehow, I really don't think it was the kid's..

[Ham]

If indeed you think you're recruiting the "best".. and it is an HONORS program..

Honest to God.. what is the real NEED to hold some kind of threat over people to "behave nice" if they are really HONORS "students"??!! Even the military can't summarily throw people out on a whim.. six or eight weeks into boot camp.."well, just go home boys.. we don't need any more soldiers today"

I wouldn't send my kids to your church.. for all the wealth of Egypt..

Edited March 6, 2008 by Ham

[frank123lol]

If indeed you think you're recruiting the "best".. and it is an HONORS program..

Honest to God.. what is the real NEED to hold some kind of threat over people to "behave nice" if they are really HONORS "students"??!! Even the military can't summarily throw people out on a whim.. six or eight weeks into boot camp.."well, just go home boys.. we don't need any more soldiers today"

I wouldn't send my kids to your church.. for all the wealth of Egypt..

Actully,Mr.Ham,In the military boot camp if you do not meet the grade,they will send you

through the 2nd time or even the 3rd time.

And the "Program" is supposed to be even tougher than any "Military"

They are using that poor kid,Yeah just like granpappy.A mog in the works.

What "New "revelation will he receive?Mayhap God will talk to him audibly?

The alleged geezers do know better,Hear that?You know better.

Honors program? Honors student?It is not like it was 30 40 years ago Try somthin new

Tune out drop out live in a commune? Now its about the money,Get a degree get a good job

not hang around old geezers with a alleged "snot nosed kid"supposedly leading them.

To what may I ask?

Most of the geezer did get a college education,And the wealth?Either inherited,or perhaps that is what craigers said when they stole from the "ministry"All allged thought of course.

[rhino]

Tell me more ...

Where do you get that it is an "honors program"?

That does sound pretty hokey ... there is a lot you can learn on a farm, but is it really an honors program, or just good old fashioned work? Honors students tend to learn from more scholastic venues. I guess listening to all the old VP tapes might be their claim to superior intellectual indoctrination teaching.

If that is the sales pitch, they are really trolling for suckers ... and they will probably find them ... but with the internet it may be a little tougher sell than in our day.

Frank ... what did craigers say allegedly, about what they stole from the ministry?

This is such a rich story ... need more details ...

[frank123lol]

Let see.... Lcm after the fog years... Startrd saying people stole from the ministry...

Cars pfal suppossedly money... Pfal was an issue as it was not copy righted..

Someone else may fill in the blanks...

These offshoots had monies from someone.....

I know he ranted and raved on the sunday tapes..

After all what I said about stealing was not based on any inside info

[Ham]

From the rants on the tapes, I thought he was furious they were teaching what was supposedly ministry-owned materials.

Wouldn't suprise me if they made off with a bunch of material stuff.. but who knows.. I never heard anything to really verify it. I know they had loads of books and stuff in limb bookstores.

I know they made off with mailing lists..

pfal being "stolen".. I think he was furious he sold away publication rights to another madman- gear.

[frank123lol]

In 2000,Now this is allegedly The money for "Defeating the Adversary"

in northern mi,May Was stolen by a Mr Allen Li@t That came from the new Leader in mi a Mr Anderso@

and his lovely wife Lind@ Seems it was not the first time previous limb leaders had skidaddled and taken money Makes you go hmmmmm....

In 2000,Now this is allegedly The money for "Defeating the Adversary"

in northern mi,May Was stolen by a Mr Allen Li@t That came from the new Leader in mi a Mr Anderso@

and his lovely wife Lind@ Seems it was not the first time previous limb leaders had skidaddled and taken money Makes you go hmmmmm....