Here we go again..

[Ham]

Another thought.. with such a CLOSE resemblence to a product of "The Way International"..

I'd be quite suprised if they didn't get a letter from twi's legal "champions"..

especially since Mc***en is involved in it..

[Ham]

given his history with der vey, a court very well may consider something like this beyond simple copyright infringement..

toss in something that involves the word "malicious"..

how many acres do you say you have?

[J0nny Ling0]

Crucify him! Crucify him!

[Ham]

Johnny, I'm actually being civil here. I'll spare you from seeing my nasty side..

;)

But.. didn't these guys have a CLUE of what kind of hornets nest they would stir up..

I just want a few answers.

If "they" would have kept up some kind of dialog, I wouldn't be posting my questions and concerns here..

Apparently they don't owe me any answers on account of my lack of involvement in the organization. Only a guess, but probably a good one..

[Twinky]

Oh, I don't know. Can't be a copy. TWI would never allow such a beat-up old truck as is shown in the first photo.

(Tongue in cheek.)

Think I'd be looking elsewhere for training...

[J0nny Ling0]

But.. didn't these guys have a CLUE of what kind of hornets nest they would stir up..

Ham, the hornets are a relative few. Even here, I have received a good number of pm's on this subject alone where people here agree with me. And they weren't e-mails from Johniam, Mike, White Dove, or Oldieman. Rather, they were from folks who rarely post here, but do in fact read the posts. From people who are afraid to post opinions that mirror my own, because they don't want to be ridiculed and flamed as they see happen to people whose opinions reflect their own.

And then of course, whether you like it or not, there are in fact many many groups of ex-Way people fellowshipping together, being happy, and not "stirred up like a bunch of hornets" like you say that you are. People who don't even know about the GSC, nor could care less. I have one friend who came here a few times but never posted. He refers to this place as a "vomitorium".

Like I said, you hornets are a relative few. But I am glad to be able to post so that lurkers like the ones I have heard back on this issue have the opportunity to see another side of the arguments. I have recently heard via pm's from people concerning the "A Note On Forgiveness" thread also. From folks who dared not post there, I guess, because they didn't want the queen bee and the hornets nest chasing them...

[Ham]

But Rocky's outrage was kinda a surprise.

You'd a thought I slapped the Queen of England or something..

:)

The last time I heard that kind of "correction" was about twenty five or so years ago from an equally unlikely source: a young girl who was a retired hippie of sorts..

I called vic "wierwille".. and she almost jumped out of her skin and hissed, "WE CALL HIM DOCTOR Wierwille!!!"

You'd a thought I'd slapped the Queen of England or something..

[Ham]

And then of course, whether you like it or not, there are in fact many many groups of ex-Way people fellowshipping together, being happy, and not "stirred up like a bunch of hornets" like you say that you are. People who don't even know about the GSC, nor could care less. I have one friend who came here a few times but never posted. He refers to this place as a "vomitorium".

So why would they even CARE what I think..

Not all the time, but often a dose of reality resembles your referenced curdled green expelled material..

the whole crew involved in the new venture.. they KNOW where the kind of organization they want to emlulate went to in the seventies, eighties, nineties..

except for the "coordinator".

My opinion.

the same system they are trying to wring some good out of, provided courtesans for the mogs and mog wanabes.. and thank God- YOU didn't take advantage of it. But how many did? I'm sure they won't come forward into the little "vomitorium" and spill their guts.. probably have wives, families they might destroy..

oh well.. it'll probably eat their stomach out for the rest of their days.

How much does junior really know about the "history of da way"?

we didn't get very far..

[rhino]

Apparently they don't owe me any answers on account of my lack of involvement in the organization. Only a guess, but probably a good one..

I don't think they owe me any answers ... I'm just curious if they are going to make a bunch of young kids endure old tapes and call that training. Farm work and site development might be good training, but if they went to New Orleans they could make $25/hour for some construction work and get real training. And have a lot more fun with their time off.

But maybe they'll have a good ol' time out in the woods ... it wouldn't be the first time some kids have wasted a year or ten of their formative 20's.

If someone was planning a year in the Sowers thingy .. they might read this and consider a little more deeply what they were getting and what they are giving up. And they might even decide then it is just the ticket for them, but they'd go in with a little stronger position, and less likely to be bowled over.

[J0nny Ling0]

Sighhhh...

But thanks Ham for your acknowledgment of this:

the same system they are trying to wring some good out of, provided courtesans for the mogs and mog wanabes.. and thank God- YOU didn't take advantage of it.

I didn't take advantage of it. I didn't even know it was going on until the end, and I was aghast when an "offer" came my way. I've told this story before, but, here:

I went to HQ to pick up a truck I purchased during the Rock. This was after POP, but before the "Pledge Of Allegiance To Craig" letter. When I checked, and my name was looked up, I was then greeted as "Rev" so and so, and the red carpet treatment began. I was given a nice place to stay during my weekend visit. They put me up in John Linder's "Unit" while he and his Fam were away fishing after the Rock. I was also told that I would be given a "guest buddy" that would "take care of things for me" around the house (unit). That first evening, a very pretty Italian American gal knocked on the door and came in with an awesome pasta dish for supper. She told me that she was there to take care of any particular things that might be needed. I was flattered and felt that this was a very nice thing for them to do. When I got back in later that evening, she was there. When I went to bed, she later came and knocked on the door to my room. I was in my skivvies, and answered the door a crack but was hiding behind the door. She was in a cute "nighty", and she was very beautiful. She asked me if I wanted a full body massage. I was was pretty confused and really shook up. I told her no. She told me that she was staying the room across the hall, and that if I needed anything, anything at all, I could wake her. Then, showing my confusion, I told her abruptly that no I was fine, and that I didn't need anything at all. She was very embarrassed at that point and ashamed. She knew I was married, for I had told her earlier when she'd brought the pasta over. I went to bed, angry, confused, but also half interested in the sex that was offered, but not at all willing to break the vow I had made to God and my wife. It was a very strange time.

And so, I didn't rise to the bait. But I often thought afterward as the duplicity within the ministry came to light, that had I taken up the "offering" that was presented, that it would have been used against me as "emotional black mail". What was weirdest about the whole thing was that it was obvious to me that it had been "set up that way" by somebody that was way "higher up".

No, I was not caught up in that at all. And I do recognize that it existed and that it was bad. I was kicked out of The Way a short time after that. All I can say here is that we were all players, and we all made our decisions to be with The Way during those years and that we would be far better off (IMO) forgiving and moving on. May God bless and heal those who were hurt the worst, and may he heal those who who were hurt to a lesser degree. May God bless and take care of that girl who had been there to be at my "service". Hopefully, she realized the error of her ways also, but I think she did when she was rebuffed that night. Hope it carried her through. And for those who were the Perps, well, all I can say is that I can forgive them, but, when they have to answer to God, it'll be His decision as to what to do with them, not mine. I am fallible, He is not, and I am glad that in my fallibility, I am not the one who has to judge. I don't think any of us are infallible enough to judge someones Eternity.

AND, may young VPW be a person who wants to help and heal and not hurt. Time will tell...

Edited February 13, 2008 by Jonny Lingo

[waysider]

I just want to know if they plan to make their mayo from scratch.

Well, that and whether or not there is a truck stop nearby.

[Ham]

Johnny, that's kinda my point. We, or I sent people off to get what was reputed as the finest christian training in the world..

to a group the we (thought) we KNEW.. with instructors whom I basically gave the benefit of the doubt..

vic could do no wrong.. or don, or howie.. or Lynn.. or any of them.

I left the way in a similar circumstance as you. It was right at the time I'm leaving the joint, or shortly after, that I find myself learning about the corruption these "good men" weaved into the organization.

The guys running this new thing.. I know, or at least THINK I know them. But I thought I knew the guys running the program in the old days too.

AND, may young VPW be a person who wants to help and heal and not hurt. Time will tell...

I would hope so.

adding a few precautions would help too.

who's in charge of the keepers..

[waysider]

Hey there JL

I just read your last post and I think I understand what you are saying.(kinda)

The thing is, though, for some people, the venting and getting angry is actually a part of the forgiveness process, not an alternative.

You ever boil a tea kettle with one of those whistle things on the spout?

It gets hotter and hotter and hotter until, finally, it whistles up a storm and steams to beat the band.

So then you take it off the fire and let it start to cool.

You can't really skip the part where it whistles even though the noise might drive you bonkers.

People need to be allowed to get to the point where they "whistle" freely.

Only they can say when they have whistled enough and then remove themselves from the heat.

Seeing some of this stuff, such as a clone of the Way Corps revisited, tends to turn the fire back on where the water has already started to cool.

I don't know if that makes sense but it's all I've got right now.

Peace, Brother

waysider

[skyrider]

Yeah ... he can do whatever he wants ... and we can chatter away Over time you'd hope the memories of the bad part of old vp's legacy might be forgotten, but it seems pretty much etched in stone here.

They are using the "It Is Written" motto as well. By not changing a word, I'd have to imagine that they believe those Corps principles were from God ... and are trying to continue the thing ... presumably minus the profane rantings, sexual indescretions, overbearing personalities ... at least volunteers don't have to pay to come work, except with their time.

It seems he was in fellow laborers last year in Ohio, with Christian Family Fellowship ... apparently involving the Sh*royers, the Cla*pps, and the Gui*gous. I'd guess that is fairly public knowledge, and not something he'd want to hide. So if they are trianing leaders, they must be "rising up" out of the CFF ranks, and that must be the ministry that will be receiving the material abundance these new leaders believe for.

He says Sowers is a full time Christian leadership training program that he will be coordinating. Who knows, maybe they'll be building another large VPW auditorium down there one day.

Have I got this right??........

CFF has an outreach program....where individuals are sent out to nearby cities to work, to witness AND to offer their "foundational class."?

Also, CFF has established a fellow-laborers program in Ohio.....kinda like twi used to have?

Also, CFF is NOW establishing a Corps training program...........24/7 training (??) for candidates that qualify and want to pay money to chop wood, weed gardens, plant corn, bake rhubarb pie, etc. AND learn some Bible verses and listen to tapes?

AMAZING..!!.......to think that Sar@ Wierwille Gu1gu0 is full-time staff and standing next to her husband near the top of CFF and jp wierwille throwing in his support in this corps-style training.......AND grandson VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE name recognition.......AND shroyer now out of the picture......

Maybe the TRUE BLUE wierwillite followers are "truly believing" to bring those early twi good ole days back again...!!??

And.......if this corps training center adds a dog kennel with a few German shorthairs, a wierwille barn, and some nightowls.............poof!.........back to 1970 again.

:blink:

[J0nny Ling0]

Ham and WS. You both make good points. I guess that it seems to me that a certain few here seem to be at the boiling point all of the time, and their whistling seems to go beyond a venting or a warning, but rather a self destructive and continual rant.

But, you are right about people's time tables, although some of these time tables seem to be suspect to me, because the "perpetual heat" to the waterpot does in fact seem to get folks "steaming mad" all over again, even after they have cooled down and have been healing.

But thank you for your understanding, and I will do my best to recognize peoples' needs to "steam whistle......."

Peace to you too my Brothers...

JL

[frank123lol]

"Vomitorium" Yeah well you shoulda been around in the late 90s or 2000 to hear the spew out of der vey

mr gig0@ and his lovely wife were thrown out of the way for being too prideful as well to adhering to old wineskins.

Believe it or not I still like them,They seem honestly sincere in thier desire to teach the vord.

People can call this place what they want,If paw shut down tomorrow something would take its place.

I will not stand in anybodys way to move the vord ,just be honest please...

I have actually been to the mcmul#n farm in ole mississip picked up his sister took her to the limb.It

was (is?) a nice place.

To Johnny and the rest I have no beef with the new whatever they call it,but if it is any thing like the old organization it fall sooner or later.

Look at the way now buncha old farts sitting on millions,buying cars ,clothes .vacations ect..living the good life alll on the bqacks of people who put thier heart and soul into somthning that told em all byebye

we dont need ya

[GarthP2000]

That site is hilarious! On one of the pages, the first picture I saw was the broken down truck with the caption "Students Of the Word Equipped and Running to Serve". And them cooking ... in a pit? :blink: What? Can't they afford a stove?

Rocky & Jonny. (Man! This is a first. Rocky and Jonny actually agreeing on something! :blink: ) Looking over the site clearly shows me that they are trying to set up a carbon copy of the Way Corpse (Good grief, read some of the pages there ) . And that particular model is rife with power-med corruption and abuse. ... So any accusation of libel/slander of someone trying to set up a Christian ministry of service is flawed. The original points by Ham and Rhino are dead on and right. ... Even if it isn't in 'the heart' of the originator of said program.

And its a rendering that I agree with.

Edited February 13, 2008 by GarthP2000

[frank123lol]

IF you fools want to LIMIT discussion to the merits of a new effort at building what we knew as The Way Corps, THAT could have been, and still could be done. BUT to do so, PERSONALIZING the attack on someone you don't know and which person has done no harm to anyone MUST be VIGILANTLY AVOIDED.

Hmm... fools hey?You sound exactly like what you are saying Personalizing is so wrong

talk about calling the kettle black!

The way corps as it could have been?

Still could be done?

Thats right dig the ole corpse out of the ground,it lives!!All the way corps ened up being is a lot of minnie mes of the mog .All three of em.....

[penworks]

Does anyone here read any history of the Bible? Does anyone else question the dream of trying to get the "accuracy" of such a book? If you're here, I'd like to hear from you.

To me, that issue is at the root of what drives groups like this new one. I was in the old one for many years. Seems to me time and energy is better spent on other ways of improving the world, but that's just my opinion. Guess I forget I've been outside the box so long it's hard to remember the blind idealism still inside it.

[doojable]

-- IS what HAM and Professor St. George and others did.

I haven't seen George St George here in this thread at all.

[Oakspear]

Yes, it may seem the same, but how do you know that his heart is the same? That he wants to hurt people as you assume? I mean, if we don't KNOW, then we don't know...

Heart?Nobody knows that, but actions do speak

[GarthP2000]

Okay Rock, you want to play your (usual) game of 'I'm the FINAL authority', hey, I'm game. I can play the antithesis to that just fine. I've played that with Rhino. I've played that with RonG. I can do the same with you. ;)

Consider the following remarks by you:

NOTHING after your FIRST point matters.

NOTHING else matters.

Judgement of the intent in the heart of an innocent young man by SEVERAL people who have NO knowledge of ANY harm done to ANY person by this young man -- IS what HAM and Professor St. George and others did.

This thread has NOT been about a PROGRAM, but about defaming an innocent, even if he will someday be proven to be misguided, young man.

THAT is inexcusable.

Now rather than focusing on the content of this quote, note specifically the _way_ you portray it. ... As absolutes you proclaim that aren't open to debate. ... Period. ... Kinda like the stern schoolmaster rapping his ruler firmly on the desk indicating that he will tolerate NO argument! ... PERIOD!(((WHAP)))

Now me, I kinda find it rather amusing. Laughable even. ... Especially this part: "NO, Garth, as usual, you play the part of the JESTER. The fool."

Uh yeah, right guy. ... "As usual the fool" ehh? ..... Uhh huh. I notice that you don't find me 'usually' the fool over in Politicks n' Tacks when I agree with your political points of view or blow to shreds some of 'wRonG's' arguments. ... Hhmmm. What gives?

The initial point on this thread WAS about a certain program that bears a VERY good likeness to the Way Corps. Fer crying out loud, reading some of the pages tells me that the author must have used a copy machine to get his material from the Way Corp printouts.

Oh, and as far as 'judging people's hearts', you seem to be breaking your own rule here quite a bit Rocky. ... "Judging people's hearts". ... Yeah, right! Errm, excuse me, but one CAN (rightfully) judge someone's heart a lot more than you think, particularly when you consider that what is in someone's heart often comes flowing out their mouth and actions. ... Try to consider THAT as foolishness, ... if you can.

Besides, I find jesters far more REAL than the people that they mock! ;)

[Ham]

This is about a young man who had NO choice in parents and name "assigned" to him.

Apparently no choice in his "vocation" either. It was "named" for him.

He's been surrounded, carefully groomed by these over the hill moglets who can't run a ministry based on their own name..

He may have good character, but I *think* a pumped ego. And who did that..

I ask again.. why else is he hanging out with a bunch of OLD GEEZERS (and I put myself *almost* in the same category) "coordinating" a Way Corps lookalike program? Why isn't he in grad school?

why.. isn't he building REAL CREDENTIALS AND ABILITIES?

Instead he's hanging out with in my honest opinion.. a bunch of moggish loosers stuck on a dead end street..

and they seem to be rather happy to carry a banner with his name on it..

I have bad feelings about this little venture, almost any way I look at it..

You don't want to know the rest of what I really think about all of this.

[J0nny Ling0]

And them cooking ... in a pit? blink.gif What? Can't they afford a stove?

Oh come on! That was a fine photo of an open pit barbecue! One of the finest "Texas style" barbecue meals you could imagine! It's classic rustic dining my man, and, surely, you already know that....

Don't you remember that ROA motto: "Good food, good fellowship, good Word"? No doubt the open pit barbecue thing was something for people to enjoy! Good food is always welcome! Especially if "the word" isn't so good...

[rascal]

I remember the rock where that *good food* was contaminated by some kind of bacteria (roa 81 I believe) and many of us got SERIOUSLY ill for the week....shiver

While many enjoyed the *good fellowship* and *good word* there were many others in their tents...vomiting their brains out and unable to make it to the porta potty in time with their diahrea.

Yet another example of people at the same event (ministry) having vastly different experiences.

A parallel could be drawn between pfal and the wholesome apetitizing looking food concealing harmfull bacteria that sickened and weakened many unsuspecting that year.