Here we go again..

[Ham]

Yep.. these kids don't need a fat farm. But that appears to be what they are on..

Pudgy, overweight "staff" might benefit more from the program.. half a year manually pulling stumps and splitting firewood should just about do it..

[frank123lol]

It appears they are more fat headed than pudgy,To take an old sick concept,where they saw what happened in twi,and still continue is

fat head as well as numb nuts stupid.

[cheranne]

http://hubpages.com/_248ezk3sm01f9/hub/SIGNS-of-Christian-Cults

[Ham]

From Skyrider on another thread:

Wierwille's corps program was not a leadership program......it was a followship program. Wierwille had no interest in raising up leaders to walk in the steps of Jesus Christ......he devised a "marine-style-follow-orders" program to graduate followers who were trained to be his pfal-class instructors.

True to his ideals, wierwille cried his eyes out over the likes of J0hnnie Towns3nd for his "follow-ship and heart to serve" the idolized pfal class. Later, J0hnnie was recognized as honorary corps.....because of his leadership? No.....because of his follow-ship.

What was wrong with wierwille's corps program?

... 1) The foundation was twi-dependency....not the author/finisher of faith, Jesus Christ.

... 2) Too vague in promotion of "serving God"......iron-clad obedience upon graduation to twi???

... 3) Corps "training" was too much rehash of pfal......far too much indoctrination.

... 4) No scope of true ministering....counseling.....relationships.....boundaries....adultery/sin.

... 5) Campus coordinators had to kowtow to wierwille's machinery of regimented control.

... 6) No individuality.....groupthink was standard operation.

... 7) Arrogant leadership monopolize lunchtime announcements during meals.

... 8) Childish songs were sung repeatedly...........subliminal dependency??

... 9) After graduation, and years later......wierwille still labeled some corps as "cop-outs"

... 10) And, besides the manipulation, intimidation, exploitation...........the SEX PREDATION.

When I take a long, hard look at the corps program..........it was a disgrace and disservice to God Almighty from the get-go. Not only was wierwille academically unqualified to oversee the training of future disciples, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing and intent on preying and lusting over the females.

The corps program provided the isolation and secrecy for wierwille's sex predation that he voiced in 1969 when he went to those orgies in Haight-Ashbury. As the money poured into twi......the purchase of vp's motorcoach and far-away campuses and soldout bodyguards gave wierwille access to fulfill the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and wierwille's pride of life: POWER.

you pathetic "old timers" who snagged junior in this disgrace:

what are you doing, that is any bit different?

The only thing I can say that MIGHT be different, is number 9 and 10 on the list. For now at least. I can't say either way. The relevance here though, even if you didn't partake in gramps sin, were you AWARE of it? If so, how does that affect your "qualifications" to lead? Do you still sweep gramps real legacy under the rug?

The worst part.. you raised junior to believe that gramps was some kind of bible super hero..

[Ham]

One of you "elders" is worse than Esau.. you sold your soul and heritage for one stinking tank of gas..

if you are reading this, it might be an "oh my god" moment..

just think back..

[Ham]

let me give you a clue.

Rock of Ages.. 1977..

[frank123lol]

Dont keep us in suspense,who sold thier soul?

[GarthP2000]

... for $1.95?

[Ham]

Ha..

yep.. sold the lowly squirrel said soul and heritage for one stinking tank of gas..

pa was otherwise busy with a grandiose teaching on Hebrews 11..

maybe the kid just wanted a little gas for the big car to tool around to get "lucky" or something..

you know.. a little road trip to St. Mary's or something..

heh

the little fruitcake was every bit as arrogant then.. his heritage won't buy him a stinking cup of coffee here now..

[Ham]

the "instructions" were..

*mrs* or *mr* owens.. let them have all the gas they want..

watch out for the way production people. they will try to sell you their soul.. to con you out of a tank of gas. they are off the list.

this one particular character.. was not on or off the list.

I asked him why he should have the gas..

"Huuumph.. I'm the son of the guy who runs this thing.."

go ahead fella.. but you pay the price..

friggin moron..

hey.. what can I say.. he went ahead and filled up..

today.. I cash in..

[waysider]

Did the car look anything like THIS?

Edited August 29, 2009 by waysider

[Ham]

coulda been.. I thought it looked like one of those stupid cars people put horns on the hood.. yeah that was probably it..

friggin jackasses.. heh..

don't they think there are those of us sent to observe this kind of moronic nonsense, for one reason or another?

the nice thing about the internet.. we get to compare notes..

it is a pleasant surprise of sorts..

[frank123lol]

Don wierwillie car,one family member remarked to me "There were amazing things done

with that car."

[Ham]

It wasn't Don. It was the baby of the family..

sorry if I've been so cryptic..

but whatever amazing (?) things that have been done with that car, I'd like to hear it..

:)

[frank123lol]

It wasn't Don. It was the baby of the family..

sorry if I've been so cryptic..

but whatever amazing (?) things that have been done with that car, I'd like to hear it..

:)

I meant to say the car was Dons,The family member did not say,as the time they had in twi was at a end,

booted from twi right after that.

For the youngest,I can relate,I was the youngest in my family too,hey wait vic was the youngest in his family.

Maybe the youngest are the ones who "get away with it".

ham,I do not know if the young one at roa 77 sold his soul,Daddy just wanted him out of his hair.

chip off the old block ya know.

[waysider]

Note of clarification

The photo I posted is a "stock" shot, not the actual car. But, it looks amazingly LIKE a particular car I remember.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

[Ham]

Heh. maybe so Frank. I was only being sarcastic.

But the arrogance lives on..

as nasty as rosie might be, I can kinda see how she might want to drum that kind of arrogance out of da "ministry".. no room for two like her.

I think the "specialness" of the family.. and all drove her NUTS. Sure, call her an opportunist.. and she likely had to kiss vic's "royal" rear in ways we may never know..

along comes junior with the same kind of arrogance.. maybe he just brought back a few bad memories..

I'm not saying I agree with her.. I just am saying I can understand it..

I don't know if it is genetic or learned behavior. In either case, I've observed the same arrogance in v2p2..

doesn't have time for anyone who doesn't agree with him..

calls gramps his "hero"..

accepts fawning and worship from numb brained followers i.e. "whatever you say, he is a GREAT MANOGAWD.."

hasn't even hit thirty yet.

who do they really think they are? Royalty? Entitled to a high place, over the church body?

I kinda thought there isn't supposed to be "royalty" or "lords" over God's heritage..

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ham

[Ham]

I think the gas incident is very relevant to this day..

there were likely a few hundred "believers" who needed that tank of gas more than he..

what ENTITLED him to MINISTRY property, above all the others? Didn't he have a few bucks in his pocket to PAY for a few conveniences like every one else?

This may be a rather small matter, but he was a preacher's kid, using his dad's name like a credit card..

I wonder what else he charged..

bringing this back to the sowers issue.. it's just another question about those who run the thing. Too many questions, too many unresolved issues. And they date back to the early seventies.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ham

[Ham]

no, it wasn't gramps or uncles car. It was a big boat.. nice at that. If I remember correctly his initials were on the license plate..

I know.. I just MUST be thinking evil.. he probably got it from hoeing beans..

[Ham]

I wonder what it was like to go through the same corps with him..

I think he graduated from pa's miracle program..

did he have to hitch-hike to lead with only twenty bucks in his pocket? Or did he take the big boat? Did he even HAVE to go to lead?

were the ream sessions "modified" in his presence?

was he over others in work details? Or did he muck the pond at the barking command of some other numbnuts?

Did he have to beg and grovel at the feet of local "believers" to get his sponsorship? Write letters? Or was tuition waived?

when he was an "employee" of da ministry, what did he exactly DO? Have a nice desk, a nice office? Or did he crawl under oil spewing wowmobiles?

I guess what I am asking: and this is INQUIRY, not an accusation: maybe someone who went through the program at the same time could answer the question-

What purpose did his corps experience fulfil? Did he actually learn how to DO something, or were they just training him to be an arrogant buffoon?

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ham

[Ham]

What were his high school days like in the seventies? Did he take the finely manicured and polished boat to school? Or did he stand out on wienerville road and wait for the bus on cold winter mornings with the other kids?

Did he have any real friends? Or was he a loaner? Involved in sports?

If so, could he perform, on a team, without being mr big, son of he who invented the hook shot?

Could he function in the real world where pa's name didn't mean spit?

"hi.. I'm a sonofavic. I'd like a cup of coffee.."

"that'l be a buck fifty five..like the rest.. now wait your turn.."

did he ever get COMFORTABLE with that concept?

Based on my first and following impressions: I would say no.

[Ham]

was he picked on in school? Or just an average kid.. or a bully? Did pa go to bat for him every time he was insulted or ignored?

how does he feel about his little corps grad certificate being worth less than a roll of toilet paper? In the real world, that is?

how does he feel being usurped by rosie, a WOMAN, as arrogant as he? Still enraged? Use her picture as a dart board or target practice?

How does he feel about a WOMAN.. his uncle's widow being appointed as some kind of head over the wienerville family by rosie?

how does he feel about women, in general?

Is he married, divorced, widowed.. single? If separated, why, and what happened to spouse?

Most of the above questions apply to v2p2 as well. I'd modify the last question though.. isn't an "elder" or "overseer" biblically supposed to be a family man? i.e. married, have raised loving productive children, have a few life experiences? Why the exception here? I think its the "royalty" issue again..

I think these are fair questions..

[frank123lol]

I think the gas incident is very relevant to this day..

there were likely a few hundred "believers" who needed that tank of gas more than he..

what ENTITLED him to MINISTRY property, above all the others? Didn't he have a few bucks in his pocket to PAY for a few conveniences like every one else?

This may be a rather small matter, but he was a preacher's kid, using his dad's name like a credit card..

I wonder what else he charged..

bringing this back to the sowers issue.. it's just another question about those who run the thing. To many questions, too many unresolved issues. And they date back to the early seventies.

That is exactly why it was a cult,"As every man had need" 1rst century in the 20th?No one ever paid for my gas.

Entitled?Yes.That is why the whole thing played humpty dumpty,That is why the new attempt will fail.

[Ham]

That is exactly why it was a cult,"As every man had need" 1rst century in the 20th?No one ever paid for my gas.

Entitled?Yes.That is why the whole thing played humpty dumpty,That is why the new attempt will fail.

Yep.. interesting that it was half of the "cult" of socialism, as some call it..

from each, according to his ability..

and what purpose do these "princes" fulfil? Well.. I guess they are supposed to make war. Protect us from debils, or trinitarians, or spiritualists and such.. there is no real enemy, so they make one up.

sounds kinds Machiavellian doesn't it?

[Ham]

Just doesn't make sense to me.. how a young kid, eighteen years old or so.. can have a $90,000 dollar car (in today's terms) with a personalized license plate..

and pa apparently lives on "need basis".. gave it all to the ministry..

must have hoed a LOT of beans..

next question (not accusation by any means..)

Did you at ANY TIME accept or request sexual favors, based on being the "son of the guy who runs this organization"?

I personally saw you get away with a tank of gas.. and you seemed rather "practiced" in your presentation about how you were the son of the great one.. how much further did this kind of behavior continue?

Just put the question in queue. Maybe just answer it to yourself..

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ham