Here we go again..

[Ham]

He might be 24.. just BARELY out of college.

yep, JP's kid.

I sincerely believe he is more "qualified" to be in charge of a broom closet..

[frank123lol]

"Not a novice,lest being lifted up with pridehe fall into the condemnation

of the devil.1Timothy 3:6.That should say it all...Whether I know him or not.

he is a novice,period....The bible list the qualifications.These old guys know that.

yet they use vp2.To me that is deceit,Ole McMull@m should run it then.Let the "kid"

see the ropes.

Power,I am all of say 23 listen to me,yeah right....

[Oakspear]

IMHO back in the good ol' days TWI was all about putting youngsters in charge of people's lives.

Martindale himself was what?, 32 when he was made President of TWI?

[frank123lol]

You are right,Supposedly that is all god had to "work with".

How manipulative they were are.

[now I see]

.To me that is deceit,Ole McMull@m should run it then.Let the "kid"

see the ropes.

Uh...that would be worse....much worse.

Personal choices before, and the last 24 years have been harder on some than others.  Why would anyone entrust their spiritual lives (let alone physical, mental and emotional) and vitality to someone who was a former vp bus driver?  Pretty naive.

[Ham]

I wonder if that's the real story here though. I'd say these "elders" very well might be running the thing under the kid's name, letting him have the illusion he's in charge.

He insinuated that he cooked the whole thing up himself.

Now Mc*ullen.. what has HE been doing for the last twenty years that would qualify him to be on the board, other than trespassing on vey property, trying to relive times he walked "holy ground"?

I'm not being sarcastic, at least at the moment.

While the bot may own the keys to the place, I think it would have been more sensible to just humor the old guy.. I think he was harmless, at least at the time. Unless as THEIR "product".. they considered him a real embarrassment. No.. instead, they get another black eye, going to court again, and having another "persecuted" ex-cultie on the front page of Sidney Gazette or whatever it is. Now they have a more bitter, even more determined enemy..

And it appears to have been a rather long standing feud between Mc*ullen and der vey inc.

Now he opens shop in Mississippi.. with another "board member" who probably has a lot more reason to be disgruntled..

I don't think JP's exit from twi was very pleasant either. I wonder how he felt when he saw a *woman* put in a position he may have thought to be more suited for himself..

So pa and "uncle mac" give junior the white-washed version of way history.. it was a wonderful place, until a couple of "bad apples" ruined everything.. and "by gawd, we'll get it "right" THIS time.." how? Using the same methods?

I really question their judgment and motives here.

I sense a deep seated bitterness.. but they likely will never express it. I think they keep bottling it in, speaking in tongues, and reciting retemories.. "forgetting the things behind.."

Edited May 22, 2008 by Ham

[waysider]

snip snip snip

keep bottling it in, speaking in tongues, and reciting retemories.. "forgetting the things behind.."

Boy, Howdy!

If that doesn't describe "The Way Method Of Problem Solving" I don't know what does.

Now THAT'S mathematical exactness.

[Catcup]

I wonder if that's the real story here though. I'd say these "elders" very well might be running the thing under the kid's name, letting him have the illusion he's in charge.

Who are the elders in his program besides Mc*ullen?

[Ham]

The only "board member" he mentioned was pops..

another poster here leaked Mc*ullen's name.

whoever else is "on board" apparently they are not saying.

[Ham]

Their website doesn't give a clue, either.

http://sowersonline.com/default.aspx

unless the "fellow residents" qualify as staff..

http://sowersonline.com/aboutus.aspx

Not much "about us" for an "about us" page..

[rhino]

Not much "about us" for an "about us" page..

No, but I see they are set up to take donations through paypal for victor paul 38

Does that mean they are tax exempt? Or is it just a chance to give v2p2 money? Is this him believing to bring material abundance to him and to the ministry to him?

There is a donate button here at GSC ...but there is more to go on here.

[Ham]

what's even more intriguing..

the only face I recognize on any of the photos is one with the kid "preaching' in front of *his* people..

you'd think they'd have a staff shot.. names of who's there in charge..

specifics about the curriculum..

an ethics page that the "students' and THOSE IN CHARGE would LIKEWISE have to abide by..

what's the point of having such a useless website?

my first impression was that the"message" was "here am I, chop my wood.."

Edited May 22, 2008 by Ham

[Ham]

Compare:

another offshoot's website:

http://www.cffm.org/doc/contact.shtml

It's not exactly my "cup of tea" anymore..

but I offer a few observations.

They aren't afraid to be found. In fact, I would say that they WANT to be found..

even an honest to God landline telephone number..

practically a complete listing of staff, along with email that I am pretty SURE they'd answer..

even DIRECTIONS on how to get to their little corner of the world..

they even advertise their "curriculum", events..

I could say other things, but at least they seem to be open and honest..

but the sowers thingy..

They have a "web page". I shouldn't have to email somebody to ASK who's running it.. what the qualifications are..

what the curriculum is..

what organization they support, or supports them, if they actually have a parent organization to begin with..

I thought it was a joke the first time I saw it.. it looked like a spoof site..

"fellow residents on the grounds"???

firewood to be chopped???

abandoned farm equipment?

gotta be kidding..

I hope they send the brochure sometime soon.

I've got all summer to figure this thing out with my own devices if need be..

[now I see]

Catcup, it has been reported here that JP and Sarah with respective spouses have been associated with this endeavor, although, what's been reported is inconclusive concerning their roles.  

It is DM's family farm that all this takes place on, it has been reported here it is now under their ministry's name, which means he and his sister must have donated it over.

[Ham]

Wouldn't suprise me, at all.

[frank123lol]

To my knowledge dm has two sisters.

[rhino]

So DM and sis donated this farm to which ministry? CFF? or is there another ministry?

In any case, that is apparently the ministry that will have material abundance from this corps program? It is also the one that is closely tied to the program. They would probably have liability as well.

But the donate button goes to v2p2.

[Ham]

I really wish SOMEBODY would step up and accept responsibility for this thing..

[now I see]

You know I thought I read it here that DM had put the property in the sowers name, but I can't find the post, so either it was deleted and is not there anymore or maybe it was related to something else like setting up nonprofit status for the organization, so maybe the property is still held by the family.  Is there a way to check whose name the property's in online?

[dmiller]

<snip>

You know I thought I read it here that DM had put the property in the sowers name, but I can't find the post, so either it was deleted and is not there anymore ---- <snip>?

Only the Mod squad here can delete posts. Give them a call/ email, eh?

[now I see]

I didn't mean to infer the mods did it, just maybe the poster did, you have 12 hours after posting to erase or change posts, or its that I'm getting too old and not remembering correctly!

[Catcup]

Catcup, it has been reported here that JP and Sarah with respective spouses have been associated with this endeavor, although, what's been reported is inconclusive concerning their roles.

You are correct on one point, incorrect on the other.

[Ham]

Is there a way to check whose name the property's in online?

I suppose so. But that presumes that one knows the name of the corporation, or location of the property to begin with.

Apparently I'm not "spiritual" enough to handle that kind of information..

[JeffSjo]

I'm glad you are looking at it Ham,

I hope that my two-cents helps.

From where I sit all the secrecy/ hiding doesn't bode well for the prospects of this program.

I can understand why many folks are sceptical.

I bet there are plenty of people who would want to support the program out of sentimentality alone also.

The website is so obviously badly done that they would be better off without it in terms of the perception of their competancy that it gives, so maybe they're just looking for donations.

The secrecy seems like fear to me.

Fear of what?

Maybe fear of criticism. But that doesn't bode well for a place to learn to serve God to me.

IF THE LEADERS CAN ONLY HIDE, WHAT COULD THEY POSSIBLY TEACH THESE KIDS THAT WOULD BE ANY GOOD? How boldly take a stand while keeping your people, motives, location, and operating standards secret.

Like I said before Ham, I'm glad that you're looking into it, but I agree with you that it doesn't look good.

(edited for grammar)

Edited May 23, 2008 by JeffSjo

[Ham]

I tried a bunch of free searches.. sowers, sowers inc, mac's name.. v2p2's name.. pappy.. along with smith county ms..

I even searched for "cults smith county mississippi"

nothing. mac can't be found for dust..

Some "church camp".. "send us your kids.."

"where are they going?"

"Why do you want to know? You've got trust *issues*. Don't worry. They are going.. somewhere.. besides, it's none of your business.."

It does have a rather sinister appearance.

Just an AOL email address. And a donate tab..

You've gotta be kidding..

Yeah, I think they are afraid. Afraid of WHAT, hmm?

If I have this hard of a time getting a few names and addresses, perhaps twi's lawyers are finding it equally difficult. v2p2 has basically plagiarized twi's corps "principles".. I don't see any reference or work cited.. being a lawyer, trying to deliver a cease and desist letter, and finding oneself up to the hip mucking about in the mississippi mud and on the wrong end of a shotgun might not be a very pleasant prospect.

Then again.. maybe twi just doesn't care anymore..

or maybe they've weighed the cost to their reputation in "persecuting" one of vic's offspring.

then again.. if something goes REALLY wrong.. they've got another black eye.. the "staff" there is a product of twi..