Can you walk in love and be very upset and angry with your brother?
Can you walk in love and be rather peeved with you brother?
Can you walk in love and hate a person who claimed to be your brother but really isn't?
Can you walk in love and hate a person that you don't know if they are your brother or not?
Can you walk in love and not warn one brother of another brother who happens to be not walking in love, maybe even being E-ville?
Can you walk in love and talk about how E-ville this brother of yours used to be and you don't know if he is still the same way or not because you can't get in touch with him, he can't get in touch with you, you grew apart from him since you got kicked out of the cult he was in charge of, he may be dead and perhaps talking about him helps you recover from his E-ville doings and perhaps helps another brother avoid that E-ville brother and the cult he used to run?
Oh why weren't there MORE red letters in the Bible. Sometimes you really need them to tell you how to live.
Here's one for ya.
If God forgives everyone absolutely
and
bringing up past wrongs is evidence of lack of forgiveness
then
how is it that the Bible (if it is the God breathed WofG) isn't filled with only the good things about believer type people?
Is it really "holding a grudge" to say that something in the past was wrong and never should have happened? I don't think so.
The Bible is filled with stories of men who did wrong; men who even did good things before or after their grievous offense. Moses killed a man and later got so angry that he paid for it dearly. David had a man killed over a woman he boinked. Saul, Solomon, Adam, Samson, Peter, Paul and Mary. They all have not only their accomplishments recorded, their sins are also recorded for generations to see.
If it's "holding a grudge" to record and state the wrongs of a person, then God holds grudges.
They all have not only their accomplishments recorded, their sins are also recorded for generations to see.
It's true. But bear in mind, that their accomplishments aren't biblically relegated to the "well-Adolph-Hitler-did-some-good- things-too" way of thinking. Their works in the Lord were labelled as such despite their sins.
the vicster didn't exactly have the wisdom of Solomon.. or the strength of Samson.. or the eloquence of Apollos..
he did end up having the morals of Solomon though.. perhaps worse.
he WAS successful in building a house of cards that a moron in a tight jump suit managed to tear down in a few short years.. along with a few dedicated yes men..
Reminds me of a "stowry".. I think this is close to the way I heard it..
This old guy lived his life in pleasure, crushing his competition, chasing every young woman he saw, bought and burned down the local church and orphanage to make a parking lot..
so he dies.
He arrives at the pearly gates, and st. peter says "we haven't had one like this.. hasn't done a SINGLE good thing for anybody.."
His assistant says.. "naw.. we can let him in.. he gave a begger five dollars once in 1928.."
It's true. But bear in mind, that their accomplishments aren't biblically relegated to the "well-Adolph-Hitler-did-some-good- things-too" way of thinking. Their works in the Lord were labelled as such despite their sins.
Okay, but the fact still remains that the sins are labeled sins.
There are kings who's only claim to fame is that they did evil in the sight of the Lord.
They are presented on rice paper pages with gold-leafed edges in leather-bound books for generations to see. Some of them are even talked about in red letters.
and lest we forget, vic was NOT a king. Saul was a king, Solomon was a king, David was a king. But vic, no.
Maybe in his OWN mind perhaps..
he wasn't a judge either.. like Samson, Gideon..
*ahem* he wasn't a prophet either.. too many failed "conditional prophecies" and the like.
so.. why compare him to what he was not?
We have a whole new generation of this nonsense rearing it's ugly head.. and it can't honestly acknowledge what those who went before did, without whitewashing it and sanitizing it.
Despite one sided edicts and perhaps their best efforts, they one day will get their evaluations as well.. in a place like this. I hope it's better than what the ancestor got..
...and so dear friends, if holding a grudge is a sin, then I admit to this sin. Yes, I do hold a grudge. I refuse to let them off the hook...like I said before, twi is still operating, still in business, still conning people and still ruining their lives...
...was Jesus NOT walking in love when he told the pharisees what he thought of them?
...was Jesus NOT walking in love when he held a low opinion of them and told others?
...was Jesus NOT walking in love he flipped the tables over in the temple area?
...was he NOT walking in love when he told the woman to "go and sin no more"?...Twi continues in their sinful ways.
I won't stick my head in the sand and disregard those who are still being victimized...and do so in the name of "Christian forgiveness"...that's both selfish and dishonest.
I think perhaps there is a difference between holding a grudge and being cleareyed and clearminded about what really happened, who someone really is, and wanting to warn others so they don't fall into the same trap you did.
I think perhaps there is a difference between holding a grudge and being cleareyed and clearminded about what really happened, who someone really is, and wanting to warn others so they don't fall into the same trap you did.
WG
I suppose you're right. Perhaps "holding a grudge" should be defined...it may mean different things to different people.
To me, it describes my thoughts and feelings towards what these people did and continue to do to other people. I think it's terribly wrong to lie in the name of God and abuse people. It's not being obsessed or filled with bitterness...it's a cold calculated opinion. If these people were to cease from their sinful activities and ask for forgiveness, then I would gladly "seperate the sin from the sinner" and forgive them...but it's THEIR choice to continue doing what they are doing.
...and they are not even good at what they do anymore...they are still living on the fruits of Wierwille's scam. They are clouds without water...
...was Jesus NOT walking in love when he told the pharisees what he thought of them?
...was Jesus NOT walking in love when he held a low opinion of them and told others?
...was Jesus NOT walking in love he flipped the tables over in the temple area?
...was he NOT walking in love when he told the woman to "go and sin no more"?...Twi continues in their sinful ways.
He certainly was. But I disagree that Jesus' actions has ANY comparison with unrelenting moral outrage about sins committed 25+ years ago largely from anonymous sources.
Sounds like his outrage towards the pharacees and money changers was pretty unrelenting to me :)
I am not anonymous :) God knows who we are here AND he knows what these people did to us, even in spite of your unrelenting attempts to whitwash and mitigate the crimes committed by men claiming to represent him.
He certainly was. But I disagree that Jesus' actions has ANY comparison with unrelenting moral outrage about sins committed 25+ years ago largely from anonymous sources.
Considering God Almighty decided that Jesus' condemnations of them would be preserved for eternity in Holy Scripture
(along with the death sentences for Hophni and Phinehas, to name another example by name),
I think 25, 50 or 75 years is PEANUTS to 2000 or more years of documentation.....
I don't think the "outrage" is so much over 25 year old "sins".. I think it's over them being covered over, perpeptuated, duplicated over, and over, and over again.. to the present.
People spoke up "way back then".. and the system just kept moving on after they were run off.
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Watered Garden
It's very difficult sometimes to adequately express what Word Wolf said so perfectly.
Thanks,
WG
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GrouchoMarxJr
The bible also says to be aware of false prophets...Some of us are helping in that regard.
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lindyhopper
Can you walk in love and hate your brother?
Can you walk in love and be very upset and angry with your brother?
Can you walk in love and be rather peeved with you brother?
Can you walk in love and hate a person who claimed to be your brother but really isn't?
Can you walk in love and hate a person that you don't know if they are your brother or not?
Can you walk in love and not warn one brother of another brother who happens to be not walking in love, maybe even being E-ville?
Can you walk in love and talk about how E-ville this brother of yours used to be and you don't know if he is still the same way or not because you can't get in touch with him, he can't get in touch with you, you grew apart from him since you got kicked out of the cult he was in charge of, he may be dead and perhaps talking about him helps you recover from his E-ville doings and perhaps helps another brother avoid that E-ville brother and the cult he used to run?
Oh why weren't there MORE red letters in the Bible. Sometimes you really need them to tell you how to live.
Here's one for ya.
If God forgives everyone absolutely
and
bringing up past wrongs is evidence of lack of forgiveness
then
how is it that the Bible (if it is the God breathed WofG) isn't filled with only the good things about believer type people?
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doojable
Is it really "holding a grudge" to say that something in the past was wrong and never should have happened? I don't think so.
The Bible is filled with stories of men who did wrong; men who even did good things before or after their grievous offense. Moses killed a man and later got so angry that he paid for it dearly. David had a man killed over a woman he boinked. Saul, Solomon, Adam, Samson, Peter, Paul and Mary. They all have not only their accomplishments recorded, their sins are also recorded for generations to see.
If it's "holding a grudge" to record and state the wrongs of a person, then God holds grudges.
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oldiesman
It's true. But bear in mind, that their accomplishments aren't biblically relegated to the "well-Adolph-Hitler-did-some-good- things-too" way of thinking. Their works in the Lord were labelled as such despite their sins.
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Ham
I dunno. Consider the "accomplishments"..
the vicster didn't exactly have the wisdom of Solomon.. or the strength of Samson.. or the eloquence of Apollos..
he did end up having the morals of Solomon though.. perhaps worse.
he WAS successful in building a house of cards that a moron in a tight jump suit managed to tear down in a few short years.. along with a few dedicated yes men..
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Ham
"accomplishments..(?)"
I think he sowed tares and weeds in his field.. that's his legacy.
Every time he went into a Drambuie induced "spiritual" rage.. he sowed a handful..
every time he laid his greasy hands on one the ladies under his charge.. he sowed whole bucket fulls..
every single time he accepted credit for work that was not his own.. he was sowing even more seeds for misery and disgrace.
every time he accepted bribes from the taskmasters who helped "rule" over the flock..
every little "fib", fabrication, or outright lie.. which SOMEBODY would eventually call him on.
I really think he was "believing" for the kind of shame his name is now associated with.
but he could put on a fair speech.
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oldiesman
[never mind] I already made my point once, not in much of an arguing mood today. have a good one. :)
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rascal
We used to have a bumper sticker hanging in our cabin.
My mind is made up...DON`T confuse me with the facts :)
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Ham
Reminds me of a "stowry".. I think this is close to the way I heard it..
This old guy lived his life in pleasure, crushing his competition, chasing every young woman he saw, bought and burned down the local church and orphanage to make a parking lot..
so he dies.
He arrives at the pearly gates, and st. peter says "we haven't had one like this.. hasn't done a SINGLE good thing for anybody.."
His assistant says.. "naw.. we can let him in.. he gave a begger five dollars once in 1928.."
Peter calls the cashier.. produces a five..
"here, you can have a refund."
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doojable
Okay, but the fact still remains that the sins are labeled sins.
There are kings who's only claim to fame is that they did evil in the sight of the Lord.
They are presented on rice paper pages with gold-leafed edges in leather-bound books for generations to see. Some of them are even talked about in red letters.
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Ham
and lest we forget, vic was NOT a king. Saul was a king, Solomon was a king, David was a king. But vic, no.
Maybe in his OWN mind perhaps..
he wasn't a judge either.. like Samson, Gideon..
*ahem* he wasn't a prophet either.. too many failed "conditional prophecies" and the like.
so.. why compare him to what he was not?
We have a whole new generation of this nonsense rearing it's ugly head.. and it can't honestly acknowledge what those who went before did, without whitewashing it and sanitizing it.
Despite one sided edicts and perhaps their best efforts, they one day will get their evaluations as well.. in a place like this. I hope it's better than what the ancestor got..
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waysider
Not sure if I ever mentioned this before but the man was a huckster and a common con man.
It's comical, really, comparing him to someone of Biblical stature.
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Ham
PT Barnum was at least a little more honest about it..
he still made a fortune.
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excathedra
not sure if you mentioned it before either, but you did now !!!!!!!!! :)
hi lindy good to see you !!!!!!!
ps. in my own little world and mind, he was awful. i don't need any bible to tell me that ha !!!!!
hope that makes sense
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Ham
I think these religious scam artists are WORSE than anything the world has to offer.
I've been scammed out of money before.. and at the end of the day, it was only money.
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Ham
The worst part of it.. I think.. the REPEATED demands for TRUST after trust has been broken..
the complete denial.. that they wash their hands like anyone else in the civilized world..
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GrouchoMarxJr
...and so dear friends, if holding a grudge is a sin, then I admit to this sin. Yes, I do hold a grudge. I refuse to let them off the hook...like I said before, twi is still operating, still in business, still conning people and still ruining their lives...
...was Jesus NOT walking in love when he told the pharisees what he thought of them?
...was Jesus NOT walking in love when he held a low opinion of them and told others?
...was Jesus NOT walking in love he flipped the tables over in the temple area?
...was he NOT walking in love when he told the woman to "go and sin no more"?...Twi continues in their sinful ways.
I won't stick my head in the sand and disregard those who are still being victimized...and do so in the name of "Christian forgiveness"...that's both selfish and dishonest.
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Watered Garden
I think perhaps there is a difference between holding a grudge and being cleareyed and clearminded about what really happened, who someone really is, and wanting to warn others so they don't fall into the same trap you did.
WG
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GrouchoMarxJr
I suppose you're right. Perhaps "holding a grudge" should be defined...it may mean different things to different people.
To me, it describes my thoughts and feelings towards what these people did and continue to do to other people. I think it's terribly wrong to lie in the name of God and abuse people. It's not being obsessed or filled with bitterness...it's a cold calculated opinion. If these people were to cease from their sinful activities and ask for forgiveness, then I would gladly "seperate the sin from the sinner" and forgive them...but it's THEIR choice to continue doing what they are doing.
...and they are not even good at what they do anymore...they are still living on the fruits of Wierwille's scam. They are clouds without water...
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oldiesman
He certainly was. But I disagree that Jesus' actions has ANY comparison with unrelenting moral outrage about sins committed 25+ years ago largely from anonymous sources.
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rascal
Sounds like his outrage towards the pharacees and money changers was pretty unrelenting to me :)
I am not anonymous :) God knows who we are here AND he knows what these people did to us, even in spite of your unrelenting attempts to whitwash and mitigate the crimes committed by men claiming to represent him.
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WordWolf
Considering God Almighty decided that Jesus' condemnations of them would be preserved for eternity in Holy Scripture
(along with the death sentences for Hophni and Phinehas, to name another example by name),
I think 25, 50 or 75 years is PEANUTS to 2000 or more years of documentation.....
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Ham
I don't think the "outrage" is so much over 25 year old "sins".. I think it's over them being covered over, perpeptuated, duplicated over, and over, and over again.. to the present.
People spoke up "way back then".. and the system just kept moving on after they were run off.
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