Kevin/Jonny, when I was in rez I never heard your name mentioned (but then, I wouldn't if you 'd been M&A'd) but on behalf of International Corps, thank you for what you did.
I know for departing IWC from in rez, they flew rejects out pronto and oncharged it to the home country. All bought at max rates, probably, no advance purchase fares because of the suddenness of departure. In my home country, the rejects were expected to refund their fares if at all possible to the home country. As if anybody who has been in rez has any much money left to refund air fares.
Me, I got M&A'd in the home country after graduation. A fairly brave US resident phoned me to say he'd heard that not only had I been kicked out but had been M&A'd as well. First I knew of it.
Reasons:
1. Confronting *leadership* (male) in a very minor way and being beaten down for not being a good follower.
2. Following leadership in their example. When they saw it reflected back, it proved *I* was totally out there and full of DS because *my* behavior was wrong. This was part of an ongoing pattern and became the last straw for them.
3. Using my brain to solve a problem, without asking permission (I think that was the last but one straw).
4. (Quite probably the real reason) being a female. Especially being an intelligent and educated one.
Sorry you had to go through that Twink. I know it was a very weird time for my friends at that time. We did make the best of it though, and had some fun also.
We would have been in the #3 weakness category--but the weakness changed all the time. We were never, ever good enough, in other words.
One time it was me refusing to go to the new adv class( I was nursing twins, and already had the old adv class). We were barely household then.
We had a ratty looking old car that ran very well--not good enough though.
We had three kids is less than 3 years, how insane was that? How distracting from the Word.
We arranged too much of our lives around our kids--belonged to the parent council at school which met on -gasp-a fellowship night once a month.
I worked part time nights--ooo bad believing for finances, there. But we didn't have to pay child care for 3 preschoolers. And guess what--I made just about the same amount of $$ we abs-ed so Craig could wear designer suits!
We had a dog and a cat and a bird and a fish.
Those are just a few minor things we were made miserable about. I won't go into the uglier intrusive stuff we were supposed to submit to to be godly. Or the attempts to drive a wedge between hubby and I, the more painful stuff.
Our HFC tried for years to get us in his control or out, but of the three limb coords we had in the nineties--the first two were old buds, so we had that who-you-know-hedge of protection. Then we got a limb coord who didn't know us, and who knew our HFC's corps brothers...he backed HFC all the way.
We'd been Twig Coords, we were well liked, so we weren't M&A right away--we were 'needing to take some time to work through some things', is what the branch was told. It was a big shock to people in the branch when we left abruptly w/ out LOA or anything.
I found out we were M&A several months later when I ran into one of my former best friends in a store, she started crying and said good bye.
When we didn't come running straight back to the Household we were m&A.(We have a TWI mole who still speaks to us)
We weren't great heros taking a stand for God and the Word against the evil ministry when we left. No great triumphant act.
We were weary, scared, heartbroken, stressed, confused, wondering if our marriage would survive. We didn't think we would make it through another reproof and report to the HFC type period.
I had a place lined up in my home state, and a job if I needed to get away with the kids, if hubby caved into the HFC and pretty much our marriage would be over. The HFC got a little too confident I think, became too obvious.
We didn't leave with friends or support or understanding and encouraging family members-- TWI was not a topic of conversation with our families( hubby's family looked into depreogramming back in the seventies, they hated TWI).
We left because if we stayed we thought something really bad would happen to us, like a divorce, orchestrated like others we'd seen in our area.
We would have been in the #3 weakness category--but the weakness changed all the time. We were never, ever good enough, in other words.
One time it was me refusing to go to the new adv class( I was nursing twins, and already had the old adv class). We were barely household then.
We had a ratty looking old car that ran very well--not good enough though.
We had three kids is less than 3 years, how insane was that? How distracting from the Word.
We arranged too much of our lives around our kids--belonged to the parent council at school which met on -gasp-a fellowship night once a month.
I worked part time nights--ooo bad believing for finances, there. But we didn't have to pay child care for 3 preschoolers. And guess what--I made just about the same amount of $$ we abs-ed so Craig could wear designer suits!
We had a dog and a cat and a bird and a fish.
Wow, Bramble, what a truly wicked person you are. Not. Fancy giving consideration to your children! Fancy taking care of your finances! And refusing to go to a class!!! Clear to see you are not the right material at all.
I am glad you got out, your marriage survived and your kids got a better start in life than the wooden spoon just because they existed. Life is probably soooo much more enjoyable for you now and you can make your own decisions, Godly or otherwise, according to what you want and need to achieve.
That is an amazing story. I am so sorry for what these people put you and your family through in the name of God :(
No damned wonder you are rock solid strong. You HAD to be to survive that.
Your statement....*We were weak, weary, scared, heartbrocken, stressed, confused, not knowing if our marriage would survive* is as moving an account as I have read about leaving.
We were refugees, fleeing. Not knowing if we would live, now that we were no longer under God`s protection...waiting for the other shoe to drop, knowing that satan had access to our lives, knowing that God couldn`t bless us because we weren`t tithing to twi, How would we serve God, How could he love us...Where could we go for fellowship???? Did we make the right choice? Had we been tricked by Satan?? Were we now evil and spiritually suspiscious??? Were we a danger to our bretheren whom we loved so much???
I remember being SO lonely.
How dare these people do this to you/us...people who simply were doing their very best to serve God ...grrrr,,,it is so wrong on so many many levels :(
Things got better for us from day one of leaving. We really weren't bad at making good decisions for our family--it is that so many decisions we made were challenged by leadership. I don't think leadership thought those challenges through, they did their decision making on the fly it seems to me.
And believers in different fellowships had different issues--it totally depended on the whims and peferences of the leaders.
I do remember the confrontation about that missed advanced class--LCM said if you didn't go, you were either either hard hearted or slothful--no other reasons. So the confrontation was to figure out which you were. It was decided we were slothful--but I was always had the impression that the actual slothfulness was in getting pregnant...
Well, probably debt and weakness. We went into debt to fly to the 1995 ROA from the Left Coast and rent a car. We stayed with my husband's family instead of on grounds. We got soundly castigated for that and were forbidden to attend the Word In Business conference as a result. I got yelled at for asking for my money back.
I was diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes, a sure sign from God of spiritual weakness. We had a lot of challenging times with our son and were ordered to "get rid of him." Hopefully this meant terminate our parental rights legally and put him in foster care. We did not. Things got worse. We still did not. I was privately told that if we did not TPR him, I needed to make a decision to either stand on God's Word with God's Ministry or stay with my husband.
We made the right choices. "I quit!" "You're fired!" was about how it went down.
Well, probably debt and weakness. We went into debt to fly to the 1995 ROA from the Left Coast and rent a car. We stayed with my husband's family instead of on grounds. We got soundly castigated for that and were forbidden to attend the Word In Business conference as a result. I got yelled at for asking for my money back.
I was diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes, a sure sign from God of spiritual weakness. We had a lot of challenging times with our son and were ordered to "get rid of him." Hopefully this meant terminate our parental rights legally and put him in foster care. We did not. Things got worse. We still did not. I was privately told that if we did not TPR him, I needed to make a decision to either stand on God's Word with God's Ministry or stay with my husband.
We made the right choices. "I quit!" "You're fired!" was about how it went down.
If a couple with similar problems attended our church, they would be loved, encouraged, counseled, and if necessary, sent to professionals, such as psychologists and psychiatrists. Prayer would be offered. Deliverance would be preached. Condemnation? Never heard of it!!!
I've actually see this happen. It made me cry, and it made me very thankful to be out of TWI.
It's hard to forgive TWIbots who said and did these things to us. In one sense, they didn't really know what they were doing. In another, we were not perfect, and perfectly perfected perfection is the barebones minimum standard of behavior for TWI acceptance. So they HAD to force us out one way or another in order to look like God's exclusive chosen ministry.
I've learned more about the nature of God in the past year than I did in 23 in TWI.
Well, probably debt and weakness. We went into debt to fly to the 1995 ROA from the Left Coast and rent a car. We stayed with my husband's family instead of on grounds. We got soundly castigated for that and were forbidden to attend the Word In Business conference as a result. I got yelled at for asking for my money back.
I was diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes, a sure sign from God of spiritual weakness. We had a lot of challenging times with our son and were ordered to "get rid of him." Hopefully this meant terminate our parental rights legally and put him in foster care. We did not. Things got worse. We still did not. I was privately told that if we did not TPR him, I needed to make a decision to either stand on God's Word with God's Ministry or stay with my husband.
We made the right choices. "I quit!" "You're fired!" was about how it went down.
WG
WOW. They had the arrogance to tell you to get rid of your child. WOW. They should have been the people who knew about healing and Gods love. They were the ones who were weak and inept.
I wrote about some of this on an old thread called 'Child Abuse in TWI' or something along those lines. One HFC actually suggested we take our son up into the mountains so far no one could hear his screams and take turns hitting him with a 2 x 4 until he understood if he did not submit to his parents, he would be taken back to that place and "just die there." In other words, kill him. This guy is spouse corps and his little wife is 6th WC. They are both legalistic and hard hearted. What did Jesus say about children? Did He recommend beatings and perhaps murder? I don't think so. I think He is appalled when a so-called Christian beats or abuses a child, or even suggests it.
We did in fact clear debt by selling some stock we owned in a Fortune 100 company and then opened CD's with the remainder, which helped us get home after we left the Left Coast. Funny, we forgot to mention the stock was worth a good deal more than the debt we owed, so TWI couldn't get their scaly claws into it.
Then, we were told it was not an option to attend ROA that year. We only had one week of vacation, not long enough to drive 2/3 the way across the country. So we flew and rented a car. We didn't actually attend too much of the ROA but spent time with our families instead. We registered for Word in Business and our finances were looked into (how they did that I never found out, but I suspect something illegal went on. It was discovered we had flown and rented the above and the stuff hit the fan.
By the way, in case any of you newly freed do not already know this, TWI and the WayGB will cross the lines of legality to get the goods on you. A couple of months after I was diagnosed with IDDM in 1994, I received a call from a certain physician, loyal Wayfer, whose initials are JCZ. Dr. Z. informed me that all the medical records on all the ER visits and hospital admissions of individuals who had attended the ROA were given to him for review, including mine. He was verifying my diagnosis. I was surprised, but since I had known this guy at one time as a friend, I didn't think much about it until years later.
Here's the deal: I did not sign a release of my medical records to him. I did not list him as my family physician. So how did he convince the hospital to give him my records? Did this go through channels or was a TWI-fer on staff who sneaked copies of everyone's medical records?
I think 1994 is pre-HIPPA so I couldn't have sued the SOB. But at the very least it was extremely unethical and dishonest of him to have ALL THE RECORDS of everyone who was seen in the ER or admitted to the hospital in his possession without their knowledge or permission. I think TWI got him to do this to weed out the perceived weakness of the unwell and hold it against them. I think he is an unethical, dishonest jerk and I would certainly never let him so much as change a band-aid.
Recommended Posts
Twinky
Kevin/Jonny, when I was in rez I never heard your name mentioned (but then, I wouldn't if you 'd been M&A'd) but on behalf of International Corps, thank you for what you did.
I know for departing IWC from in rez, they flew rejects out pronto and oncharged it to the home country. All bought at max rates, probably, no advance purchase fares because of the suddenness of departure. In my home country, the rejects were expected to refund their fares if at all possible to the home country. As if anybody who has been in rez has any much money left to refund air fares.
Me, I got M&A'd in the home country after graduation. A fairly brave US resident phoned me to say he'd heard that not only had I been kicked out but had been M&A'd as well. First I knew of it.
Reasons:
1. Confronting *leadership* (male) in a very minor way and being beaten down for not being a good follower.
2. Following leadership in their example. When they saw it reflected back, it proved *I* was totally out there and full of DS because *my* behavior was wrong. This was part of an ongoing pattern and became the last straw for them.
3. Using my brain to solve a problem, without asking permission (I think that was the last but one straw).
4. (Quite probably the real reason) being a female. Especially being an intelligent and educated one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Sorry you had to go through that Twink. I know it was a very weird time for my friends at that time. We did make the best of it though, and had some fun also.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
We would have been in the #3 weakness category--but the weakness changed all the time. We were never, ever good enough, in other words.
One time it was me refusing to go to the new adv class( I was nursing twins, and already had the old adv class). We were barely household then.
We had a ratty looking old car that ran very well--not good enough though.
We had three kids is less than 3 years, how insane was that? How distracting from the Word.
We arranged too much of our lives around our kids--belonged to the parent council at school which met on -gasp-a fellowship night once a month.
I worked part time nights--ooo bad believing for finances, there. But we didn't have to pay child care for 3 preschoolers. And guess what--I made just about the same amount of $$ we abs-ed so Craig could wear designer suits!
We had a dog and a cat and a bird and a fish.
Those are just a few minor things we were made miserable about. I won't go into the uglier intrusive stuff we were supposed to submit to to be godly. Or the attempts to drive a wedge between hubby and I, the more painful stuff.
Our HFC tried for years to get us in his control or out, but of the three limb coords we had in the nineties--the first two were old buds, so we had that who-you-know-hedge of protection. Then we got a limb coord who didn't know us, and who knew our HFC's corps brothers...he backed HFC all the way.
We'd been Twig Coords, we were well liked, so we weren't M&A right away--we were 'needing to take some time to work through some things', is what the branch was told. It was a big shock to people in the branch when we left abruptly w/ out LOA or anything.
I found out we were M&A several months later when I ran into one of my former best friends in a store, she started crying and said good bye.
When we didn't come running straight back to the Household we were m&A.(We have a TWI mole who still speaks to us)
We weren't great heros taking a stand for God and the Word against the evil ministry when we left. No great triumphant act.
We were weary, scared, heartbroken, stressed, confused, wondering if our marriage would survive. We didn't think we would make it through another reproof and report to the HFC type period.
I had a place lined up in my home state, and a job if I needed to get away with the kids, if hubby caved into the HFC and pretty much our marriage would be over. The HFC got a little too confident I think, became too obvious.
We didn't leave with friends or support or understanding and encouraging family members-- TWI was not a topic of conversation with our families( hubby's family looked into depreogramming back in the seventies, they hated TWI).
We left because if we stayed we thought something really bad would happen to us, like a divorce, orchestrated like others we'd seen in our area.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Wow, Bramble, what a truly wicked person you are. Not. Fancy giving consideration to your children! Fancy taking care of your finances! And refusing to go to a class!!! Clear to see you are not the right material at all.
I am glad you got out, your marriage survived and your kids got a better start in life than the wooden spoon just because they existed. Life is probably soooo much more enjoyable for you now and you can make your own decisions, Godly or otherwise, according to what you want and need to achieve.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
(((Bramble)))
That is an amazing story. I am so sorry for what these people put you and your family through in the name of God :(
No damned wonder you are rock solid strong. You HAD to be to survive that.
Your statement....*We were weak, weary, scared, heartbrocken, stressed, confused, not knowing if our marriage would survive* is as moving an account as I have read about leaving.
We were refugees, fleeing. Not knowing if we would live, now that we were no longer under God`s protection...waiting for the other shoe to drop, knowing that satan had access to our lives, knowing that God couldn`t bless us because we weren`t tithing to twi, How would we serve God, How could he love us...Where could we go for fellowship???? Did we make the right choice? Had we been tricked by Satan?? Were we now evil and spiritually suspiscious??? Were we a danger to our bretheren whom we loved so much???
I remember being SO lonely.
How dare these people do this to you/us...people who simply were doing their very best to serve God ...grrrr,,,it is so wrong on so many many levels :(
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
Things got better for us from day one of leaving. We really weren't bad at making good decisions for our family--it is that so many decisions we made were challenged by leadership. I don't think leadership thought those challenges through, they did their decision making on the fly it seems to me.
And believers in different fellowships had different issues--it totally depended on the whims and peferences of the leaders.
I do remember the confrontation about that missed advanced class--LCM said if you didn't go, you were either either hard hearted or slothful--no other reasons. So the confrontation was to figure out which you were. It was decided we were slothful--but I was always had the impression that the actual slothfulness was in getting pregnant...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
Well, probably debt and weakness. We went into debt to fly to the 1995 ROA from the Left Coast and rent a car. We stayed with my husband's family instead of on grounds. We got soundly castigated for that and were forbidden to attend the Word In Business conference as a result. I got yelled at for asking for my money back.
I was diagnosed with insulin dependent diabetes, a sure sign from God of spiritual weakness. We had a lot of challenging times with our son and were ordered to "get rid of him." Hopefully this meant terminate our parental rights legally and put him in foster care. We did not. Things got worse. We still did not. I was privately told that if we did not TPR him, I needed to make a decision to either stand on God's Word with God's Ministry or stay with my husband.
We made the right choices. "I quit!" "You're fired!" was about how it went down.
WG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
And people still don't admit it was a cult????
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
If a couple with similar problems attended our church, they would be loved, encouraged, counseled, and if necessary, sent to professionals, such as psychologists and psychiatrists. Prayer would be offered. Deliverance would be preached. Condemnation? Never heard of it!!!
I've actually see this happen. It made me cry, and it made me very thankful to be out of TWI.
It's hard to forgive TWIbots who said and did these things to us. In one sense, they didn't really know what they were doing. In another, we were not perfect, and perfectly perfected perfection is the barebones minimum standard of behavior for TWI acceptance. So they HAD to force us out one way or another in order to look like God's exclusive chosen ministry.
I've learned more about the nature of God in the past year than I did in 23 in TWI.
WG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
100% Free
WOW. They had the arrogance to tell you to get rid of your child. WOW. They should have been the people who knew about healing and Gods love. They were the ones who were weak and inept.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
I wrote about some of this on an old thread called 'Child Abuse in TWI' or something along those lines. One HFC actually suggested we take our son up into the mountains so far no one could hear his screams and take turns hitting him with a 2 x 4 until he understood if he did not submit to his parents, he would be taken back to that place and "just die there." In other words, kill him. This guy is spouse corps and his little wife is 6th WC. They are both legalistic and hard hearted. What did Jesus say about children? Did He recommend beatings and perhaps murder? I don't think so. I think He is appalled when a so-called Christian beats or abuses a child, or even suggests it.
We did in fact clear debt by selling some stock we owned in a Fortune 100 company and then opened CD's with the remainder, which helped us get home after we left the Left Coast. Funny, we forgot to mention the stock was worth a good deal more than the debt we owed, so TWI couldn't get their scaly claws into it.
Then, we were told it was not an option to attend ROA that year. We only had one week of vacation, not long enough to drive 2/3 the way across the country. So we flew and rented a car. We didn't actually attend too much of the ROA but spent time with our families instead. We registered for Word in Business and our finances were looked into (how they did that I never found out, but I suspect something illegal went on. It was discovered we had flown and rented the above and the stuff hit the fan.
By the way, in case any of you newly freed do not already know this, TWI and the WayGB will cross the lines of legality to get the goods on you. A couple of months after I was diagnosed with IDDM in 1994, I received a call from a certain physician, loyal Wayfer, whose initials are JCZ. Dr. Z. informed me that all the medical records on all the ER visits and hospital admissions of individuals who had attended the ROA were given to him for review, including mine. He was verifying my diagnosis. I was surprised, but since I had known this guy at one time as a friend, I didn't think much about it until years later.
Here's the deal: I did not sign a release of my medical records to him. I did not list him as my family physician. So how did he convince the hospital to give him my records? Did this go through channels or was a TWI-fer on staff who sneaked copies of everyone's medical records?
I think 1994 is pre-HIPPA so I couldn't have sued the SOB. But at the very least it was extremely unethical and dishonest of him to have ALL THE RECORDS of everyone who was seen in the ER or admitted to the hospital in his possession without their knowledge or permission. I think TWI got him to do this to weed out the perceived weakness of the unwell and hold it against them. I think he is an unethical, dishonest jerk and I would certainly never let him so much as change a band-aid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.