WOW---with that directive from VPW, maybe that is part of the inspiration for John to write his own New Testament version. Quote from their website: [emphasis added]
This New Testament, the Revised English Version® (REV®), is the version that we are developing. We call it the REV because we are presenting a revised version of earlier English versions, primarily the American Standard Version of 1901 (ASV), which we have used as the base text for our work, modifying it when WE feel it is appropriate. Our goal is to eventually have an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible that more closely represents biblical truth than any other translation currently on the market, and also one that is written in today's English.
We think we can do that because we believe a person has to understand the meaning of the text correctly to be able to translate it correctly. Furthermore, one's theology always affects the way that person will translate the text. It is our assertion that there are theological issues that we understand more correctly than most translators, and thus our translation will reflect that theology.
This sounds like it was written in a bubble...and a very self-serving one at that. This is scary to me---they only have themselves as reviewers.
and what is so wrong with NASBU(New American Standard Bible Updated) or ESV(English Standard Version) that Mr. Schenheit feels a new and better translation is necessary? :unsure: :blink:
I haven't left without taking a deep mistrust of Christians and ministries with me.
God never said to follow or put your trust in anyone but Himself or His Son..
"It is better to trust in The Lord than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118:8)
"Thus saith The Lord; Cursed be the man that either trusteth in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or whose heart departeth from The Lord. For he shall be like the Heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in The Lord, and whose hope The Lord is." (Jeremiah 17:5-7)
Yeah, it's probably not a bad thing.. Why put your trust in man? And in man made ministries? They both have their problems. And with ministries, if money is ever requested for the ministry or it's "purposes" just realize that Paul himself said while he "could" take of their perishable instead he made himself chargeable to no man AS AN EXAMPLE.. Wonder whose example that was to be.. And why would you want to follow or be a part of those who don't learn from such an example? Are they any better than the apostle Paul? They sure think so, if they think they can be chargeable to people and it's not an issue!
"It is our assertion that there are theological issues that we understand more correctly than most translators"
Wow.. What an egotistical bunch of @%^&@BS..
What they really have done is the exact opposite of what they claim. Instead of a peer reviewed translation, they have a closed minded, privately interpreted translation with their own private assertions pushed into the text thus changing God's original words to meet their own beliefs.. Wow...
Expect it to assert things the Bible never asserted before. Such as Christ making mistakes and God making mistakes.. Such Open Theology as it is called, now has it's own bible! Wow.. Something the majority of those who actually serve God and know Him would ever accuse Him of..
While they say they don't blame God, they actually do.. Because God made the mistake! He created Satan and didn't realize He would change and cause problems.. How dare He not know! Now we have problems! It's all God's mistake! And anything else evil that happens, well, just God making the mistake of not realizing that could happen so He could stop it! It's all God's fault.. Him and his 98% accuracy of being right. Yeah.. Open Theology at its greatest. Thanks CES and STFI! What a wonderful accurate assertion added to your translation because you have such a more correct understanding than the rest of the real translators in the world who actually have studied for many many many years and have their translations scrutinized by the best over and over.
I dunno.. maybe your "symptom" is mislabelled. Distrust that is. From what I've seen.. generally, it's a conditioned response. Reinforced by *rewards*.. *punishment*.. *they* are *different*.. *they* are not to be *trusted*.. especially with one's spiritual life or something..
*we* have been *conditioned* to recognize surely what happens to one who trusts *them*.. and it's supposedly not *pretty*..
it took me nearly three years to overcome this response that someone who believed in the trinity, or believed the dead to be alive, to be *seriously* compromised, "influenced".. or some such nonsense.
I'm sorry, I realize I wasn't clear on my previous post. What I meant was more in the line of behavior in self-proclaimed Christians, not theology. I've seen too many examples of people who say one thing and do another. I guess I have more of a mistrust of groups and organizations overall and have no interest right now in getting involved with any church or group. Maybe that will change.
I do meet great examples of people genuinely trying to lead a good life and treat others with respect and dignity, some Christians, others not. I tend to think more highly of people just trying to be good and do good regardless of their theology, but if their faith or theology motivates them in that direction, that's great.
God never said to follow or put your trust in anyone but Himself or His Son..
"It is better to trust in The Lord than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118:8)
Sometimes it is hard to follow men when you know them too well. I was always bothered that the majority of VPW's family was not more front and center in their involvement with TWI. Yes, his brother was the funding source and equally guilty, but his oldest 3 were not highly involved. Later, Don was coerced to leave a successful career in education simply because his abusive father needed his PhD status for accreditation of The Way College of Emporia. It didn't help afterall.
But VP and the Mrs had many other siblings who steered far away from the org. You can imagine them knowing what a scumbag he was [even if in part] and shaking their head that God would call him to lead His people. Someone once said that God called Paul who was a "murderer," yet Paul's motive and intent was never like VPW's motive and intent.
Now that I think about it, I don't think that the STF group have very many family members who are actively involved either. I think JS kids may be followers but don't see them on the list of active fellowships.
Now that I think about it, I don't think that the STF group have very many family members who are actively involved either. I think JS kids may be followers but don't see them on the list of active fellowships.
I get the distinct impression they are not. Only MG's kids were actively involved and then it was only the 2 oldest. GS's (JWS's wife) daughter was at the one leadership conference I attended, but that was 5 years ago when she was in HS. Obviously DG's kids are not.
Whatever is going on, its really sad that all this 's___' has to get in the way of the movement of the word of God. What has it been, 20 years since the TWI stuff was raging and here we go again with good people getting hurt! I guess it comes down to the theory of the frog and the water....try to put a frog into boiling water and he will jump out right away, but put him in a pot of cold water and turn the heat up slowly he will stay there until he dies.... <_<
Have you ever wondered what good is *the movement of God`s word*? I mean seriously, isn`t it the folks doin that who seem to feel the most entitled to ensnare, enslave, steal from, and violate using the name of God as their power source and the scriptures to justify their behavior?
Doesn`t it seem like people keep trying to do the same thing most of the time with the best of intentions, whether it be twi of stfi over and over using the same formula and innocent people keep getting hurt?
Maybe we have the formula wrong, or maybe the focus on US *moving the word* is misplaced.
Have you ever wondered what good is *the movement of God`s word*? I mean seriously, isn`t it the folks doin that who seem to feel the most entitled to ensnare, enslave, steal from, and violate using the name of God as their power source and the scriptures to justify their behavior?
Doesn`t it seem like people keep trying to do the same thing most of the time with the best of intentions, whether it be twi of stfi over and over using the same formula and innocent people keep getting hurt?
Maybe we have the formula wrong, or maybe the focus on US *moving the word* is misplaced.
Take one look at this site about John Hagee's ministry and notice how much like TWI it is. They are "moving God's Word" etc. Scary to me how imperative he makes it sound and how twisted The Word of God sounds in this guy's teachings...
BTW - I have a reliable source (I won't reveal who that is) who told me a person very involved with the Bible Lands Tours for this Hagee outfit is a former TWI follower who studied and taught Old Testament history, etc. in TWI.
Can anyone here provide a second source for this info?
Take one look at this site about John Hagee's ministry and notice how much like TWI it is. They are "moving God's Word" etc. Scary to me how imperative he makes it sound and how twisted The Word of God sounds in this guy's teachings...
BTW - I have a reliable source (I won't reveal who that is) who told me a person very involved with the Bible Lands Tours for this Hagee outfit is a former TWI follower who studied and taught Old Testament history, etc. in TWI.
Can anyone here provide a second source for this info?
Are you talking about John S0m@rv!1le, of Total Fitness Institute infamy?
Have you ever wondered what good is *the movement of God`s word*?
...
Maybe we have the formula wrong, or maybe the focus on US *moving the word* is misplaced.
I thought about that long and hard when I first got out.. Couldn't believe how "conned" I was to put so much into da werd..
As if it was some magical potion or a secret conjuring spell that once spoken ,err believed, would produce some "wonderful" results.
And the more perfect the pronunciation and enunciation of the said spell, errr I mean perfect knowing and memorizing this accurate dividing of scripture, would produce so much better results! GAWWDDLLY RESULTS!
POOF!! Darn, I was just turned into a lamb!
Glad to finally realize how much BS and waste of time and energy this is. And how ungodly it is at the same time..
God never said His word(s) were the most important to be magnified above all. Out of context!
No one is called to be a workman of the word. That was a TWI lie taking words from 2 Timothy our of context.
The "meat" referred to in Hebrews 5 isn't referring to some advanced "secret" knowledge people need.
It's nothing more than glorifying the creation rather than the creator. His words above Him. Idolatry per se..
And the movement of thus said previous creation (God's word) is nothing more than a glorified ego/pride pushing our viewpoint with a "GAWDLY" excuse.
If God's word is so complicated he needs these workmen and others to share the ego of these workmen, God probably didn't do a good job in speaking His words clearly the first time. What makes us think we are better communicators?!
Are you talking about John S0m@rv!1le, of Total Fitness Institute infamy?
Yes
If God's word is so complicated he needs these workmen and others to share the ego of these workmen, God probably didn't do a good job in speaking His words clearly the first time. What makes us think we are better communicators?!
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DontWorryBeHappy
bump #2 hello fellow greasespotters!...........i don't know about you, but i, for one, am consistently disappointed by the "fly-by" posts that seem to be the pattern of the ces/stfi members and apolo
dmiller
Thanks for that Factfinder. I kinda got the same impression (again) just last week when I was in Bloomington, Indiana for an extended stay there. While driving through town, a Jeep passed me ( a NIC
DontWorryBeHappy
bump..... hi all you fellow greasespotters!.............it's been awhile since i've posted here in the ces forum..............but, this topic caught my attention, since i spent a good deal of time tr
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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TrustAndObey
God never said to follow or put your trust in anyone but Himself or His Son..
"It is better to trust in The Lord than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118:8)
"Thus saith The Lord; Cursed be the man that either trusteth in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or whose heart departeth from The Lord. For he shall be like the Heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in The Lord, and whose hope The Lord is." (Jeremiah 17:5-7)
Yeah, it's probably not a bad thing.. Why put your trust in man? And in man made ministries? They both have their problems. And with ministries, if money is ever requested for the ministry or it's "purposes" just realize that Paul himself said while he "could" take of their perishable instead he made himself chargeable to no man AS AN EXAMPLE.. Wonder whose example that was to be.. And why would you want to follow or be a part of those who don't learn from such an example? Are they any better than the apostle Paul? They sure think so, if they think they can be chargeable to people and it's not an issue!
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TrustAndObey
Wow.. What an egotistical bunch of @%^&@BS..
What they really have done is the exact opposite of what they claim. Instead of a peer reviewed translation, they have a closed minded, privately interpreted translation with their own private assertions pushed into the text thus changing God's original words to meet their own beliefs.. Wow...
Expect it to assert things the Bible never asserted before. Such as Christ making mistakes and God making mistakes.. Such Open Theology as it is called, now has it's own bible! Wow.. Something the majority of those who actually serve God and know Him would ever accuse Him of..
While they say they don't blame God, they actually do.. Because God made the mistake! He created Satan and didn't realize He would change and cause problems.. How dare He not know! Now we have problems! It's all God's mistake! And anything else evil that happens, well, just God making the mistake of not realizing that could happen so He could stop it! It's all God's fault.. Him and his 98% accuracy of being right. Yeah.. Open Theology at its greatest. Thanks CES and STFI! What a wonderful accurate assertion added to your translation because you have such a more correct understanding than the rest of the real translators in the world who actually have studied for many many many years and have their translations scrutinized by the best over and over.
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Ham
I dunno.. maybe your "symptom" is mislabelled. Distrust that is. From what I've seen.. generally, it's a conditioned response. Reinforced by *rewards*.. *punishment*.. *they* are *different*.. *they* are not to be *trusted*.. especially with one's spiritual life or something..
*we* have been *conditioned* to recognize surely what happens to one who trusts *them*.. and it's supposedly not *pretty*..
it took me nearly three years to overcome this response that someone who believed in the trinity, or believed the dead to be alive, to be *seriously* compromised, "influenced".. or some such nonsense.
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batcave
I'm sorry, I realize I wasn't clear on my previous post. What I meant was more in the line of behavior in self-proclaimed Christians, not theology. I've seen too many examples of people who say one thing and do another. I guess I have more of a mistrust of groups and organizations overall and have no interest right now in getting involved with any church or group. Maybe that will change.
I do meet great examples of people genuinely trying to lead a good life and treat others with respect and dignity, some Christians, others not. I tend to think more highly of people just trying to be good and do good regardless of their theology, but if their faith or theology motivates them in that direction, that's great.
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Tzaia
Yet he was able to blithely ignore the behavior until it personally affected him.
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Rejoice
Sometimes it is hard to follow men when you know them too well. I was always bothered that the majority of VPW's family was not more front and center in their involvement with TWI. Yes, his brother was the funding source and equally guilty, but his oldest 3 were not highly involved. Later, Don was coerced to leave a successful career in education simply because his abusive father needed his PhD status for accreditation of The Way College of Emporia. It didn't help afterall.
But VP and the Mrs had many other siblings who steered far away from the org. You can imagine them knowing what a scumbag he was [even if in part] and shaking their head that God would call him to lead His people. Someone once said that God called Paul who was a "murderer," yet Paul's motive and intent was never like VPW's motive and intent.
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Rejoice
Now that I think about it, I don't think that the STF group have very many family members who are actively involved either. I think JS kids may be followers but don't see them on the list of active fellowships.
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Tzaia
I get the distinct impression they are not. Only MG's kids were actively involved and then it was only the 2 oldest. GS's (JWS's wife) daughter was at the one leadership conference I attended, but that was 5 years ago when she was in HS. Obviously DG's kids are not.
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Mr Incredible
Whatever is going on, its really sad that all this 's___' has to get in the way of the movement of the word of God. What has it been, 20 years since the TWI stuff was raging and here we go again with good people getting hurt! I guess it comes down to the theory of the frog and the water....try to put a frog into boiling water and he will jump out right away, but put him in a pot of cold water and turn the heat up slowly he will stay there until he dies.... <_<
Edited by Michael B.Link to comment
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rascal
Have you ever wondered what good is *the movement of God`s word*? I mean seriously, isn`t it the folks doin that who seem to feel the most entitled to ensnare, enslave, steal from, and violate using the name of God as their power source and the scriptures to justify their behavior?
Doesn`t it seem like people keep trying to do the same thing most of the time with the best of intentions, whether it be twi of stfi over and over using the same formula and innocent people keep getting hurt?
Maybe we have the formula wrong, or maybe the focus on US *moving the word* is misplaced.
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penworks
Take one look at this site about John Hagee's ministry and notice how much like TWI it is. They are "moving God's Word" etc. Scary to me how imperative he makes it sound and how twisted The Word of God sounds in this guy's teachings...
BTW - I have a reliable source (I won't reveal who that is) who told me a person very involved with the Bible Lands Tours for this Hagee outfit is a former TWI follower who studied and taught Old Testament history, etc. in TWI.
Can anyone here provide a second source for this info?
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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TrustAndObey
I thought about that long and hard when I first got out.. Couldn't believe how "conned" I was to put so much into da werd..
As if it was some magical potion or a secret conjuring spell that once spoken ,err believed, would produce some "wonderful" results.
And the more perfect the pronunciation and enunciation of the said spell, errr I mean perfect knowing and memorizing this accurate dividing of scripture, would produce so much better results! GAWWDDLLY RESULTS!
POOF!! Darn, I was just turned into a lamb!
Glad to finally realize how much BS and waste of time and energy this is. And how ungodly it is at the same time..
God never said His word(s) were the most important to be magnified above all. Out of context!
No one is called to be a workman of the word. That was a TWI lie taking words from 2 Timothy our of context.
The "meat" referred to in Hebrews 5 isn't referring to some advanced "secret" knowledge people need.
It's nothing more than glorifying the creation rather than the creator. His words above Him. Idolatry per se..
And the movement of thus said previous creation (God's word) is nothing more than a glorified ego/pride pushing our viewpoint with a "GAWDLY" excuse.
If God's word is so complicated he needs these workmen and others to share the ego of these workmen, God probably didn't do a good job in speaking His words clearly the first time. What makes us think we are better communicators?!
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penworks
Yes
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Grace Valerie Claire
Where did they go?? Are they going to start an off-shoot, of an off-shoot??
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