Well, these cats, or one of them, is coming along reasonably well. I can get within 2 feet of her and she is not scared. She loves to sit and watch me and has taken up residence under the dining chairs where she can see out but not always be seen. She has played with me occasionally and will chase a "tail" attached to a stick. Recently she has started squeaking at me (such a pathetic little voice for a ful-grown cat!) if she wants something (like food).
I have now evicted the cats from the sink unit and cleaned it out thoroughly. Tillie doesn't mind, she prefers the dining chairs. Tallie hates it and keeps breaking back into the sink unit. She squeezed under the kickboard and wriggled between the base and the loose back of the unit. Evicted again and put the kickboard back.
But...
My cats were funny today. Or rather, Tillie was. I sat down to breakfast and Tillie squeaked at me wanting to eat, so I fed her, she squeaked again so I gave her milk, and she wouldn’t stop squeaking. She kept running to the sink unit.
Meanwhile I had been looking for Tallie, who had gone AWOL and was most disgruntled at being evicted from the sink unit. Would you believe it, she had pried the door open and got back in! So I poked her out again, hissing furiously and she shot across the room, upsetting Tillie, who also started rushing around but soon settled. Hissing Sid cowered behind the couch, glaring. I have put my heavy sewing machine in front of the sink unit doors now.
I think it shows real hope for Tillie. From being initially the more scared and running (literally) up walls, she is now fairly settled and each day getting a little calmer. She still gets scared and cannot be handled, but every day shows improvement.
Unfortunately, I think at this rate Tallie is destined for a short life and she will die of misery or cowardice in a dark hole somewhere, and be happy doing that. I think I may have to confine her to the kittening cage where she cannot run away and will be forced to observe life. She is getting more and more terrified even though I have just left her completely alone in the sink unit where she can neither see nor be seen.
Well Twinky, IF you can catch the scaredy cat, you may take her to the vet to make sure she's not in any pain.
I had two littermates. They usually weren't far from each other until one of them got sick (unbeknownst to us) with a kind of gastro-intestinal thing.
She went weeks hissing and spitting and we just thought it was the biotch in her coming out. The one night we heard her hissing and spitting at nothing. We had read that cats spit and hiss at their pain - as if it is an enemy. They try to run from it, hide from it, whatever one would do to avoid an enemy.
We took her to the vet, she got her meds and in a week she was the "love pig" we had come to know and love.
sister dog had a tumor in her leg and she growled and barked at it and bit at it.
tis true as dooj said but if the vet doesnt find anything it could be she is just antisocial .
my mom tried to adopt a cat from a foster home and she ended up going back into a cage because she di not like to be around anyone and would hide and not eat or be healthy.
Tillie is coming along nicely. Still very timid. She has taken to mewing at me, a pitiful sound but what she wants is some attention, a little food, or playtime. Yes, playtime. She has a horrible bit of string that she loves to catch. Yesterday she was playing with the string and got quite close to me and had a good sniff at my slippers, nightwear and dressing gown. She loves to sniff anything but that is the first time she has snifed at me. She sort of follows me about, moving near to me as I move about the room or to another floor. Still can't touch her, though.
The other one went AWOL again for 3 days. I put up the kittening pen and my plan is to catch her and keep her in it for a while, quiet, calm, not very bright, but still where she is forced to see me and anyone else (if she'll open her eyes!), and learn that no-one is going to hurt her. I did catch her but did not get the side up quick enough and she ran off. No idea at all where she has been. Eventually I found her by leaving the sink unit door open again so that she could get in. I suppose an alternative to the kittening pen might be to take the door off the sink unit but then she is likely to hide elsewhere. I feel so sorry for her, locked into her fears.
Six weeks on and she is regressing. But the other is progressing so at least there is some satisfaction.
Cats, unlike dogs, are not pack animals. Except for lions felines of any species are fairly solitary creatures. They are also animals with strong individual personalities. Much stronger than say a dog--because dogs, as pack animals possess, the ability to adapt to their particular hierarchy in the group dynamic. Cats see no need for this.
Most cats are "fraidly" cats. Wild cats are stealth predators. Stealth predators need to be on their toes constantly. They need to be quick enough to catch their prey and escape injury. Escaping injury is paramount. Therefore most cats of any species will jump at their own shadow, call it instinctive survival.
My friend had a cat that was a rescue that wouldn't let them touch him for almost five years. He lived under the bedroom chair and would never come out if other people were over.
I had a female cat that would let me pet her about once a month but no one else.
Cate, my current girl is 16 she lets me pet her and maybe four other people. I am the only one who she won't scratch if I pick her up.
The best advice I can give is that you have to let your cat bond with you. that means you are the ONLY person to feed her, the ONLY person to change the litter box, The ONLY Person to give her water. You get the idea
Dogs regard us as part of a pack Cats regard us as their Mommies. Therefore you must perform the duties of Mommy for your cat to clearly understand that you are her defender and protector ie Mommy. Also she needs to understand that as mommy if it is necessary to pick her up you will. If she nips flick her nose with your fingernail. wear long sleeves so you won't get scratched.
Picking up is a necessity for checking her out if you suspect she has been hurt or is ill. Otherwise let her come to you. But she needs to be clear that there is One Mommy and it isn't her.
Some cats are terrible curiouss, some are nervous Nellie's and some cats are basically sleeping floor mats. You just have to go with the flow. get one of those interactive toys that are on a pole or get one of those laser light pointers. Most cats just can't resist either
I've had my cat now for 8 years now. Rhapsody was abused as a kitten. I used to work in a half way home for teen males coming out of prison. They could earn time out in the community and one evening they brought home a tiny black and white kitten, too young to be separated from mama really. They claimed that the kitten jumped out of the nest and followed them home....yeah right....clean across a major thoroughfare :blink:
Personally, I think that they probably tossed the kitten around to each other on the way back to the home, but the rules were that they couldn't have any pets. So, I agreed to take her home, at the time I was catless again, so I did.
But Rhapsody was terrified for that short walk home with the boys, and it was only around her 7th year of life that she really has come out of her fears of people, noises etc.
It took a long time indeed. Although she is still frightened of my string mop and broom, which I think is because they make a swishing noise.
Just a thought about mother's love: When I got off shift that night, an adult cat was sitting in the driveway, spitting image of the kitten, so obviously....
Apparently, mama followed either the scent of the boys, her kittens' cries for help or the kittens' scent in the air??? What amazed me most, was that I spoke to the mama and
told her that her kitten would be well taken care and she didn't need to keep sitting there, waiting for her kitten. She took one last look at me and turned around and left.
I firmly believe that animals can somehow understand us, or perhaps our tones, and respond accordingly...or perhaps the Holy Spirit translated my words to her.
But anyway, Rhapsody meows, will sit on my lap, although still not much of a purr-er and will allow herself to be put up close to my face on my shoulder.
Hi Squirrel, thanks for the request. Here is the latest:
Tillie:
A score on March 25 with the cats, or rather Tillie. I got some liver (to eat) and most cats love liver. I offered her a little which she ignored. I persisted and got her quite interested in this new thing. Gave her a little of the blood which she lapped up and thoroughly enjoyed. She got very interested in reaching up to the countertop to try and grab the liver in a dish. I chopped a bit into tiny pieces and proffered it to her and got her eating from my fingers, even licking them and gently nibbling (in case they were more liver). She will not let me touch her but I am hopeful that that’s one more barrier down and she will permit me to approach her and may soon take munchies from my palm. That’s the plan, anyway. She took a small piece of ham from my fingers this morning. Slowly slowly catchee cattee.
Tallie has got used to my routine and when I leave home in the morning she is looking keenly at the door. I fear she might make a dash for it one day when I am manipulating my pedal cycle through the door. The longterm intention is of course for her to come and go at will, but I don't think she is quite ready yet to go out.
I am trying to teach her skills for an outdoor life - like stalking, catching and tearing at prey. If she runs off once let out, at least she stands a better chance of survival.
She is still terribly nervous but compared with what she was on the day she arrived, she has come on magnificently. She is quite bold with me and even though she won't let me touch her, she will now sniff my clothes and follows me around the house. If I go to the bathroom, she is outside the door within a minute. She throws herself down by my feet and rolls on her back, playing and having fun, so clearly she is relaxing somewhat.
I am tempted to catch her by throwing a cover over her but just at the moment think that might undo the good work and the trust that she is putting in me.
Tallie:
Tallie has now moved out from behind the built-in fridge to behind the couch. At least I can peek at her behind the couch and she isn’t shying away too much. I left some pieces of liver near her lair (behind the couch) but she would not take it. At least she is behind the couch not behind the fridge – a slight improvement.
Best thing was Good Friday. I was playing with Tillie with this whip thing that she likes to chase the tail of. Tallie emerged from under the sink unit and peered at us. Gradually she crept closer. Tillie meanwhile was having a ball chasing this whip, leaping and rolling over and having fun. Tallie crept closer and closer , eyes glued on the whip, so I gently started flicking the end towards her and slowly she crept closer and began to play with it and try to catch it. She did that twice on Friday and again last night. She plays hesitantly but given long enough gets quite enthusiastic. She allowed herself to get within 3 feet of me without going into a panic. Amazing progress!
She is more scared now than she was when she came (or rather, shows it more, she was frozen in fear when she arrived), but she has not hissed at me recently. There was a time when hissing was progress because she made a noise at all.
I need a new name for this cat. Heidi springs to mind. But whoever called their cat "Heidi"? She might be called Hissing Sid but that doesn't seem an edifying name either and not appropriate currently.
A couple of helpful tips:
People have recommended Feliway to me – I have the spray but a diffuser might be better.
Someone else has recommended Bach’s Herbal Remedies – Rock Rose for terror, put a drop in the drinking water and it should have a calming effect. I will try this out – the product is not expensive.
Twinky - I also have Bach's Flower Remedy - Rescue Remedy It has a combination of herbs that calm and soothe. I suspect either will work well.
Long ago I purchased a book entitled The Natural Cat by Anitra Frazier it recommended several things that I did with my first two kitties - and continue to do with my "second litter" of three.
Yes, I'm toying with Rescue Remedy as an alternative. Or Mimulus. They both use the same eating and drinking facilities (Tillie is no respecter of dishes) so it has to be something that will suit both.
I got two books from the library at lunchtime: "Emotional Healing for Cats" Stefan Ball and Judy Howard and that has a great big initial section about Bach remedies and later talks about other natural remedies; and "Attitudes, Emotions and the Psychology of Cats" Dr Nicholas Dodman.
I thought the first was over the top pop psychology when I first saw it but since then several people have recommended the Bach stuff so perhaps it's worth a go for that and whatever else is in it. The second I just saw on the shelf...
Did "The Natural Cat" recommend that anything might be appropriate for cats of 16 months?
The book has a lot of suggestions but none age specific. I'll need go make some choices as to what to write, as she has a lot to say and I'd be typing for days.
She does have a list of Bach Flower remedies: Crabapple, White Chestnut (to banish unfound worries) Aspen (to cushion hypersensitivity) and Mimulus (to quell fears.) )I'd be inclined to use the Rescue Remedy first.) She says to get a 1oz. dropper bottle and put two drops of each, then fill to 3/4 full with Spring water and shake. Administer two drops of this daily (it won't hurt Tillie if she sips this, so just add 4 drops of this a day to their water.
Also, she recommends providing a "snug retreat." By this she means a box or some place where the cat can hide at will and feel secure.
She suggests that certain chemicals in the house can make it more likely that a cat will be nervous - so eliminate any strong smelling chemicals for a while. She recommends making sure the litter box is very clean and not near where the cat sleeps or eats. This along with eliminating commercial cat food (I know... pick and choose as you see fit here.) I add brewer's yeast and garlic tablets to my cat's food and it helps because of the B vitamins.
I know this sounds like a lot, but I trust you'll choose what you can and cannot do. It seems like Tallie is really coming along.
I look forward to reading about the adventures of Tillie and Tallie for years to come.
Dooj - "eliminate strong smelling chemicals"? This for two cats - that had to be ejected by force from their home inside the sink unit, with all the smelly cleaning chemicals in there? Ha ha.
Seriously, Tallie is a very timid cat. She was the runt of the litter and even in the womb seems that she wouldn't stand up for herself. I got them playing last night (well, 2 am - yawn) and Tillie is bigger and more outgoing and just pushed Tallie aside or cuffs her, and Tallie just slinks off and might have another go at playing if she can't see Tillie - or if Tillie will let her.
They use the same litter tray which by their choice is in the bathtub (they started using that instead of the litter tray!). But Tillie does not cover her leavings. Tallie does.
Tallie now lives behind the couch on top of the cushions for the garden furniture, which are inside for the winter. She stays exactly in the middle just out of arm's reach. But I can peek at her from time to time.
Any more suggestions from your book greatly appreciated. They will be starting on Bach stuff from this evening.
BUT - the book also says that being the runt of the litter would be a cause for timidity.
Tillie's refusal to cover in the litter box shows her claiming dominance. It says in cat language, "I don't care if you can smell me - I can take you!" (My paraphrasing - I wish you could read it in the original. :D)
I'll keep reading - but I highly recommend trying to find this book. I've saved a ton on vet bills by following some simple instructions. I've made concoctions that get rid of ear mites. One time all three cats caught something that was irritating their nictating eyelids (the one you never see.)
A stressed-out cat is no fun for anyone, especially when it can lead to unwanted behavior like clawing your couch, or worse, spraying it. Here are six feline-friendly ways to calm your cat into the purring fur ball you know and love.
1. Play soothing music "When we brought my son, Max, home for the first time, my cat didn't quite know what to think. All the crying panicked her -- she would pace around and meow incessantly," says Debbie Shapiro, 34, of New York, New York. "I inadvertently discovered that classical music not only calmed down my baby, but me and my cat as well. Mozart has become our best friend." However, according to certified cat behavior consultant Marilyn Krieger, cats don't do well around loud music. "Make sure whatever music you play is not erratic or high-pitched," she advises.
2. Serve catnip Denise Martin, 38, of Los Angeles, California, uses catnip to ease her cat's bouts of anxiety. "There are certain times when my cat gets antsy, like when I get out the vacuum cleaner," she says. "She knows what's coming and she hides under the bed. But I sprinkle catnip on the kitchen floor and she rolls around in it like she's a kitten again. It totally takes her mind off the scary vacuum monster." While the effects of catnip are different for each cat, your stressed-out kitty will likely have an immediate and beneficial change of state. "Catnip is stimulating stuff," Krieger says, "but it eventually calms cats down because it helps them release their energy."
3. Treat your cat to a massage According to Maryjane Ballner, animal massage specialist and author of Cat Massage: A Whiskers-to-Tail Guide to Your Cat's Ultimate Petting Experience (St. Martin's Press), stressed-out cats want affection and attention, and massage is the best way to give it to them. "On a physiological level, it's soothing and calming and it releases endorphins," she says. "On another level, it accelerates bonding with your cat."
Balking at the idea of giving your cat a massage? "At first, people think it's frivolous, but when they see the results, they know that it's substantial," says Ballner.
"We're not talking about deep muscle manipulation, we're talking about techniques that promote bonding." Make slow movements and apply gentle pressure so your cat feels the calming effect.
4. Speak in soothing voices When cats experience something stressful, such as a trip to the vet or groomer, Ballner suggests repeatedly speaking or singing to them in a slow, low-pitched voice because it reminds them of the comforts and consistency of home. "In situations like that, cats are out of their element," she says. "They're scared. When they hear us singing to them, they feel safe." Krieger agrees: "When trying to calm down a cat, it's important to keep your voice level. They will respond much better than if they sense a lot of stress in your voice."
5. Try pheromone spray When your cat rubs its face against you, it is leaving a trace of pheromones on you to show that it feels comfortable and happy. According to Krieger, when cats are exposed to stressful situations, such as the addition of another household pet, "they can exhibit fear and undesirable behavioral issues, like spraying and inappropriate elimination." Pheromone sprays mimic the natural facial pheromones found in cats, and when used, can create a comforting, reassuring feeling that has a calming effect. "It's a great way to encourage relaxation for a distressed cat," Krieger continues.
"I use Feliway [pheromone] spray when I take my cat to the vet," says Martin. "I spray some inside her crate, and it makes the whole experience better for both of us. That stuff works miracles."
6. Provide visual stimulation If your cat is alone for long stretches of time, consider putting a kitty video on the TV before you leave (please see below for resources). Krieger says that turning on a TV network such as Animal Planet or even talk radio will also do wonders for your cat. The sound and visuals simply help to make your kitty feel less alone.
RESOURCES
"Cat Sitter" DVD available at thecatconnection website.
Pawbreakers Plentiful Pride Pack catnip is available at the pawbreakers website.
"Cat Massage" DVD is available at the dogandcatmassage website.
Comfort Zone Diffuser with Feliway for Cats is available at Petco.
For information on cat massage, visit thecatcoach website.
Not tried this yet but the radio is often on with voices (talk program)
2. Serve catnip
Tillie goes wild over this, the other one ignores
3. Treat your cat to a massage
Got to be able to touch them first...
4. Speak in soothing voices
I do try this. Seems to be working with Tillie.
5. Try pheromone spray
I spray Feliway but not much effect - a diffuser might work better.
Am also trying Rock Rose and Mimulus in the drinking water and on food sachets. Not sure yet if working, might take alittle while.
6. Provide visual stimulation
Radio is on and they have toys. Tillie helps herself from the toy box. She has bits of string, balls, cardboard rolls and 2 feathers which she loves. They have a scratch post with dangly things. I have no TV but something that moves might help (an aquarium?? LOL).
I have my desk a glass desk set up in front of my picture window.
they sit on it andwatch the bird feeders . I also have a squirrel feeder on my window with a suction cup it is a cone shape thing that you put corn in and they love to growl at the squirell and pretend they can get them through the glass while the squirells tap with their nails and smile and mutch.
catuion if you decide to feed the squirrels to keep them out of the feeder it goes like this .... they bring their friends , instead of changing their habits.
you can buy a perch for cats at wall mart or anywhere that sells cat stuff that hooks right on to the sill all cats can NOT resist the temtation to see and smell fresh air.
well unless they are blind or something . they have these plastic aquariums that look real too that cats love to watch. with fish that run on batteries and do not need to be fed or cleaned!
since the kids moved out my cats do indeed watch tv, i know it sounds strange and weird if you have a busy house to understand this but if im watching a moving with cars or people my cats will sit or lay down right in front of the tv and watch the whole show , YES they are watching the tv show, they are my company and od what i do . I think they like it.
Just dropping in briefly, got i/net access but not for long.
Guess what? PROGRESS!!!!
Tillie allowed me to stroke her yesterday and again today. She also made a low gutteral sound that was rather like purring. My, she has a wonderfully soft coat. She seemed to enjoy a good ear and neck scratch and let me stroke her back and tail both times. She does not welcome it but was submissive enough. She jumped over the food bowl which is by a wall and let me touch her as she did that and gradually let me stroke her more strongly. She put up with it for several minutes and then turned and hit me (drawing blood) but hey, I'm happy.
I need to stop her beating up on the other cat, which now comes out to play but is very hesitant and plays with half an eye on Tillie. She can only play with Tillie's permission and likewise eat only with Tillie's permission. I may need to imprison Tillie in the kittening cage (if I can catch her) when I play with Tallie.
I have been putting 3-4 drops of Rock Rose and 3-4 drops Mimulus in their drinking water (which is a good sized mugful every day). I wonder if the product has a diuretic effect, as they seem to wee a lot, but they definitely seem calmer. They also get a quick squirt of Feliway near the food bowl and behind the couch (Tallie's current residence).
So getting there - slowly slowly but moving forwards.
ok again my experience and I have read some about the dominate cat in a house hold.
MY male cat has always and I mean always been the doinate cat... if he witness me petting the other cat he will attack her without mercy and rip her fur out and stand on her till she is exhuasted.
she has to wait till he is out of the room to be pette and she isnt a reall big one for petting (probabky because she takes her life in her own paws when she is petted.
when i come home she is NOT allowed to greet me at the door only him first then when he gets the tap on the head can she come over for a pet. Unless he is a big slob and is still in bed. then she can because he is to lazy.
nOW before you think this is being a bullly after a decade of fur flying I do not understand it to be this way HE is protecting her in his manly way He is very much a territory cat and she for the most part can do as she pleases unless he decides no way he doesnt like it then she gets her foot kicked. after more than a decade together they have for the most part worked out their relationship.
and she adores him even if she doesnt really like him. they do not sleep together or be very social with one another for the most part BUT if he has a issue she is the vocal one in MY face telling me all about the problem untill i take care of his need. and every once in a while I see him kiss her gently on the ear with love.
so she is a little bitchy and high strung in my opinion and he has had to "take a stand with her" but I have frozen guests in fear they flip right out when the cats used to fight and they would take off all through the house ripping out their fur and biting and stratching like war is on! I think when people are over she want to see what is going on and meet people and He says no it isnt safe let me go first...
now not so much but i have fewer people over.
I have read the pages about how to stop the dominance of one cat over another NONE of them have ever worked for me... but i didnt want to get into their relationship and always allowed them to have it there way if she didnt want to stay or him either one could have left they are indoor outdoor cats. almost two decades later they are still together albeit with some serious ground rules .
Thanks, Pond. Well I guess I have to leave it to them.
I do think Tallie is getting a raw deal but if she won't stand up for herself, I can't make her. Would like to encourage her though. She looks miserable, slinking around very low on her legs and ultra wary.
It's easy to forget Tillie is also fragile. She acts very bold in the house, following me about, rubbing up against anything she can (even my bicycle chain today, yeuk, and she wouldn't be scared away) but she is easily frightened and is being untouchable again today.
They do seem to play together and sniff at each other in greeting. Tillie is the instigator with everything.
Tillie gazes at the kitchen door as if longing to go out. However, lately she has happily observed me from the dining chair and made no effort to get out. She will not even enter my "study" which she has not been allowed in since she arrived. Today was the first time she came into the study despite my urgings and enticings with her whip/chasing toy.
A few times recently I have noticed Tallie also on a dining chair. They may be cuddled up on the same chair. Then Tillie has a stretch and shoves off onto a different chair.
Tallie initiates nothing. However if I am playing with Tillie with the whip she is attracted by the noise it makes as it flops onto the carpet or the floor and she emeges quite quickly from her hiding place. I have to flick it at her quite a lot before she makes a desultory effort to catch it. But then she will play (again with half an eye on Tillie). So that is progress for Tallie. She watches with great interest at Tillie, the great galumph, frolics around with great glee. I think she likes to play but can't relax and enjoy because she is scared of the other cat.
I am thinking of renaming them now I've got to know them better.
Tillie may become "Tuxedo." She looks so smart and dressed up with a perfectly symmetrical white throat and bib which points down her chest. The point tapers delicately to loop round each armpit and delicately trails down the center of her torso to near the crotch region where she has a white circular patch. Her front toes are white and her back toes and heels are also white, like she's wearing spats. Her whiskers are also white. The black is very dense and glossy. She looks all dressed up.
Tallie may become "Crypto" (hidden). She also is black but next to Tillie (Tuxy) she is a really really dark brown with a little white circular patch a bit like a necklace at the throat. As far as I know, all the rest is black.
Doesn't matter what you call them. They don't respond anyway.
...Ugh. On the other hand Tillie (Tuxy) may become "Crapto" (sorry about the poor taste) - she eats a lot and therefore eliminates a lot (*very* stinkily). As the alpha cat she doesn't consider it necessary to cover her leavings. ...I have to go and attend to the litter tray... (gag).
Well, I finally captured them both on camera today - see attached. Tuxedo/ Tuxy/ Sedo (Tillie) usually runs a mile and Crypto/ Heidi (Tallie) has never been around long enough. Nice view of the underside of my table too. You can see Tuxy's cute markings (bib and feet) and might just be able to make out Crypto's little circular mark just under the chin.
Had the kitchen window open just a little today. Tuxy made a definite bid for freedom. She is sooo keen to explore outside. If only I could catch her or at least handle her occasionally maybe she could be allowed out. Maybe.
Tuxy loves the toy in the photo and attacks it with enthusiasm. It's wound around with string which is completely ripped off in places.
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TheHighWay
Okay, I know this is a long post, but I've had probably half a dozen cats in my life and I've done the same with each of them with good success. Every time I've brought a new cat home, whether it was
Twinky
Well, the girlies are really settling well, with going out. Tuxy loves to be outside but she stays nicely in the garden, and more or less comes when called. If she want to go out she has taken to ye
leafytwiglet
Take her to the vet do not pass go do not collect 200 $ she has a urinary infection. They will give her antibiotics and she will get better (((Hugs)) to you and her poor little poppet.. Regarding t
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Twinky
Well, these cats, or one of them, is coming along reasonably well. I can get within 2 feet of her and she is not scared. She loves to sit and watch me and has taken up residence under the dining chairs where she can see out but not always be seen. She has played with me occasionally and will chase a "tail" attached to a stick. Recently she has started squeaking at me (such a pathetic little voice for a ful-grown cat!) if she wants something (like food).
I have now evicted the cats from the sink unit and cleaned it out thoroughly. Tillie doesn't mind, she prefers the dining chairs. Tallie hates it and keeps breaking back into the sink unit. She squeezed under the kickboard and wriggled between the base and the loose back of the unit. Evicted again and put the kickboard back.
But...
My cats were funny today. Or rather, Tillie was. I sat down to breakfast and Tillie squeaked at me wanting to eat, so I fed her, she squeaked again so I gave her milk, and she wouldn’t stop squeaking. She kept running to the sink unit.
Meanwhile I had been looking for Tallie, who had gone AWOL and was most disgruntled at being evicted from the sink unit. Would you believe it, she had pried the door open and got back in! So I poked her out again, hissing furiously and she shot across the room, upsetting Tillie, who also started rushing around but soon settled. Hissing Sid cowered behind the couch, glaring. I have put my heavy sewing machine in front of the sink unit doors now.
I think it shows real hope for Tillie. From being initially the more scared and running (literally) up walls, she is now fairly settled and each day getting a little calmer. She still gets scared and cannot be handled, but every day shows improvement.
Unfortunately, I think at this rate Tallie is destined for a short life and she will die of misery or cowardice in a dark hole somewhere, and be happy doing that. I think I may have to confine her to the kittening cage where she cannot run away and will be forced to observe life. She is getting more and more terrified even though I have just left her completely alone in the sink unit where she can neither see nor be seen.
Please, anyone, any comments?
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doojable
Well Twinky, IF you can catch the scaredy cat, you may take her to the vet to make sure she's not in any pain.
I had two littermates. They usually weren't far from each other until one of them got sick (unbeknownst to us) with a kind of gastro-intestinal thing.
She went weeks hissing and spitting and we just thought it was the biotch in her coming out. The one night we heard her hissing and spitting at nothing. We had read that cats spit and hiss at their pain - as if it is an enemy. They try to run from it, hide from it, whatever one would do to avoid an enemy.
We took her to the vet, she got her meds and in a week she was the "love pig" we had come to know and love.
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pond
sister dog had a tumor in her leg and she growled and barked at it and bit at it.
tis true as dooj said but if the vet doesnt find anything it could be she is just antisocial .
my mom tried to adopt a cat from a foster home and she ended up going back into a cage because she di not like to be around anyone and would hide and not eat or be healthy.
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now I see
Twinky,
Here's a web site of someone who works with feral kittens, maybe  there's some info there that can help, good luck!
http://www.feralcatcaretakers.org/Caretaki...estKittens.html
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Twinky
Thanks for that, BNIS. A helpful site.
Tillie is coming along nicely. Still very timid. She has taken to mewing at me, a pitiful sound but what she wants is some attention, a little food, or playtime. Yes, playtime. She has a horrible bit of string that she loves to catch. Yesterday she was playing with the string and got quite close to me and had a good sniff at my slippers, nightwear and dressing gown. She loves to sniff anything but that is the first time she has snifed at me. She sort of follows me about, moving near to me as I move about the room or to another floor. Still can't touch her, though.
The other one went AWOL again for 3 days. I put up the kittening pen and my plan is to catch her and keep her in it for a while, quiet, calm, not very bright, but still where she is forced to see me and anyone else (if she'll open her eyes!), and learn that no-one is going to hurt her. I did catch her but did not get the side up quick enough and she ran off. No idea at all where she has been. Eventually I found her by leaving the sink unit door open again so that she could get in. I suppose an alternative to the kittening pen might be to take the door off the sink unit but then she is likely to hide elsewhere. I feel so sorry for her, locked into her fears.
Six weeks on and she is regressing. But the other is progressing so at least there is some satisfaction.
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Ham
Any update Twinky? Just wonder how the little rascal is doing..
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Ham
anything new, or better?
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templelady
Cats, unlike dogs, are not pack animals. Except for lions felines of any species are fairly solitary creatures. They are also animals with strong individual personalities. Much stronger than say a dog--because dogs, as pack animals possess, the ability to adapt to their particular hierarchy in the group dynamic. Cats see no need for this.
Most cats are "fraidly" cats. Wild cats are stealth predators. Stealth predators need to be on their toes constantly. They need to be quick enough to catch their prey and escape injury. Escaping injury is paramount. Therefore most cats of any species will jump at their own shadow, call it instinctive survival.
My friend had a cat that was a rescue that wouldn't let them touch him for almost five years. He lived under the bedroom chair and would never come out if other people were over.
I had a female cat that would let me pet her about once a month but no one else.
Cate, my current girl is 16 she lets me pet her and maybe four other people. I am the only one who she won't scratch if I pick her up.
The best advice I can give is that you have to let your cat bond with you. that means you are the ONLY person to feed her, the ONLY person to change the litter box, The ONLY Person to give her water. You get the idea
Dogs regard us as part of a pack Cats regard us as their Mommies. Therefore you must perform the duties of Mommy for your cat to clearly understand that you are her defender and protector ie Mommy. Also she needs to understand that as mommy if it is necessary to pick her up you will. If she nips flick her nose with your fingernail. wear long sleeves so you won't get scratched.
Picking up is a necessity for checking her out if you suspect she has been hurt or is ill. Otherwise let her come to you. But she needs to be clear that there is One Mommy and it isn't her.
Some cats are terrible curiouss, some are nervous Nellie's and some cats are basically sleeping floor mats. You just have to go with the flow. get one of those interactive toys that are on a pole or get one of those laser light pointers. Most cats just can't resist either
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brideofjc
I've had my cat now for 8 years now. Rhapsody was abused as a kitten. I used to work in a half way home for teen males coming out of prison. They could earn time out in the community and one evening they brought home a tiny black and white kitten, too young to be separated from mama really. They claimed that the kitten jumped out of the nest and followed them home....yeah right....clean across a major thoroughfare :blink:
Personally, I think that they probably tossed the kitten around to each other on the way back to the home, but the rules were that they couldn't have any pets. So, I agreed to take her home, at the time I was catless again, so I did.
But Rhapsody was terrified for that short walk home with the boys, and it was only around her 7th year of life that she really has come out of her fears of people, noises etc.
It took a long time indeed. Although she is still frightened of my string mop and broom, which I think is because they make a swishing noise.
Just a thought about mother's love: When I got off shift that night, an adult cat was sitting in the driveway, spitting image of the kitten, so obviously....
Apparently, mama followed either the scent of the boys, her kittens' cries for help or the kittens' scent in the air??? What amazed me most, was that I spoke to the mama and
told her that her kitten would be well taken care and she didn't need to keep sitting there, waiting for her kitten. She took one last look at me and turned around and left.
I firmly believe that animals can somehow understand us, or perhaps our tones, and respond accordingly...or perhaps the Holy Spirit translated my words to her.
But anyway, Rhapsody meows, will sit on my lap, although still not much of a purr-er and will allow herself to be put up close to my face on my shoulder.
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Twinky
Hi Squirrel, thanks for the request. Here is the latest:
Tillie:
A score on March 25 with the cats, or rather Tillie. I got some liver (to eat) and most cats love liver. I offered her a little which she ignored. I persisted and got her quite interested in this new thing. Gave her a little of the blood which she lapped up and thoroughly enjoyed. She got very interested in reaching up to the countertop to try and grab the liver in a dish. I chopped a bit into tiny pieces and proffered it to her and got her eating from my fingers, even licking them and gently nibbling (in case they were more liver). She will not let me touch her but I am hopeful that that’s one more barrier down and she will permit me to approach her and may soon take munchies from my palm. That’s the plan, anyway. She took a small piece of ham from my fingers this morning. Slowly slowly catchee cattee.
Tallie has got used to my routine and when I leave home in the morning she is looking keenly at the door. I fear she might make a dash for it one day when I am manipulating my pedal cycle through the door. The longterm intention is of course for her to come and go at will, but I don't think she is quite ready yet to go out.
I am trying to teach her skills for an outdoor life - like stalking, catching and tearing at prey. If she runs off once let out, at least she stands a better chance of survival.
She is still terribly nervous but compared with what she was on the day she arrived, she has come on magnificently. She is quite bold with me and even though she won't let me touch her, she will now sniff my clothes and follows me around the house. If I go to the bathroom, she is outside the door within a minute. She throws herself down by my feet and rolls on her back, playing and having fun, so clearly she is relaxing somewhat.
I am tempted to catch her by throwing a cover over her but just at the moment think that might undo the good work and the trust that she is putting in me.
Tallie:
Tallie has now moved out from behind the built-in fridge to behind the couch. At least I can peek at her behind the couch and she isn’t shying away too much. I left some pieces of liver near her lair (behind the couch) but she would not take it. At least she is behind the couch not behind the fridge – a slight improvement.
Best thing was Good Friday. I was playing with Tillie with this whip thing that she likes to chase the tail of. Tallie emerged from under the sink unit and peered at us. Gradually she crept closer. Tillie meanwhile was having a ball chasing this whip, leaping and rolling over and having fun. Tallie crept closer and closer , eyes glued on the whip, so I gently started flicking the end towards her and slowly she crept closer and began to play with it and try to catch it. She did that twice on Friday and again last night. She plays hesitantly but given long enough gets quite enthusiastic. She allowed herself to get within 3 feet of me without going into a panic. Amazing progress!
She is more scared now than she was when she came (or rather, shows it more, she was frozen in fear when she arrived), but she has not hissed at me recently. There was a time when hissing was progress because she made a noise at all.
I need a new name for this cat. Heidi springs to mind. But whoever called their cat "Heidi"? She might be called Hissing Sid but that doesn't seem an edifying name either and not appropriate currently.
A couple of helpful tips:
People have recommended Feliway to me – I have the spray but a diffuser might be better.
Someone else has recommended Bach’s Herbal Remedies – Rock Rose for terror, put a drop in the drinking water and it should have a calming effect. I will try this out – the product is not expensive.
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doojable
Twinky - I also have Bach's Flower Remedy - Rescue Remedy It has a combination of herbs that calm and soothe. I suspect either will work well.
Long ago I purchased a book entitled The Natural Cat by Anitra Frazier it recommended several things that I did with my first two kitties - and continue to do with my "second litter" of three.
It sounds like great progress is being made!
Good to hear about your darlings.
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Twinky
Hi Dooj.
Yes, I'm toying with Rescue Remedy as an alternative. Or Mimulus. They both use the same eating and drinking facilities (Tillie is no respecter of dishes) so it has to be something that will suit both.
I got two books from the library at lunchtime: "Emotional Healing for Cats" Stefan Ball and Judy Howard and that has a great big initial section about Bach remedies and later talks about other natural remedies; and "Attitudes, Emotions and the Psychology of Cats" Dr Nicholas Dodman.
I thought the first was over the top pop psychology when I first saw it but since then several people have recommended the Bach stuff so perhaps it's worth a go for that and whatever else is in it. The second I just saw on the shelf...
Did "The Natural Cat" recommend that anything might be appropriate for cats of 16 months?
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doojable
Twinky,
The book has a lot of suggestions but none age specific. I'll need go make some choices as to what to write, as she has a lot to say and I'd be typing for days.
She does have a list of Bach Flower remedies: Crabapple, White Chestnut (to banish unfound worries) Aspen (to cushion hypersensitivity) and Mimulus (to quell fears.) )I'd be inclined to use the Rescue Remedy first.) She says to get a 1oz. dropper bottle and put two drops of each, then fill to 3/4 full with Spring water and shake. Administer two drops of this daily (it won't hurt Tillie if she sips this, so just add 4 drops of this a day to their water.
Also, she recommends providing a "snug retreat." By this she means a box or some place where the cat can hide at will and feel secure.
She suggests that certain chemicals in the house can make it more likely that a cat will be nervous - so eliminate any strong smelling chemicals for a while. She recommends making sure the litter box is very clean and not near where the cat sleeps or eats. This along with eliminating commercial cat food (I know... pick and choose as you see fit here.) I add brewer's yeast and garlic tablets to my cat's food and it helps because of the B vitamins.
I know this sounds like a lot, but I trust you'll choose what you can and cannot do. It seems like Tallie is really coming along.
I look forward to reading about the adventures of Tillie and Tallie for years to come.
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Twinky
Dooj - "eliminate strong smelling chemicals"? This for two cats - that had to be ejected by force from their home inside the sink unit, with all the smelly cleaning chemicals in there? Ha ha.
Seriously, Tallie is a very timid cat. She was the runt of the litter and even in the womb seems that she wouldn't stand up for herself. I got them playing last night (well, 2 am - yawn) and Tillie is bigger and more outgoing and just pushed Tallie aside or cuffs her, and Tallie just slinks off and might have another go at playing if she can't see Tillie - or if Tillie will let her.
They use the same litter tray which by their choice is in the bathtub (they started using that instead of the litter tray!). But Tillie does not cover her leavings. Tallie does.
Tallie now lives behind the couch on top of the cushions for the garden furniture, which are inside for the winter. She stays exactly in the middle just out of arm's reach. But I can peek at her from time to time.
Any more suggestions from your book greatly appreciated. They will be starting on Bach stuff from this evening.
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doojable
Twinky - I just copied what the book said...LOL
BUT - the book also says that being the runt of the litter would be a cause for timidity.
Tillie's refusal to cover in the litter box shows her claiming dominance. It says in cat language, "I don't care if you can smell me - I can take you!" (My paraphrasing - I wish you could read it in the original. :D)
I'll keep reading - but I highly recommend trying to find this book. I've saved a ton on vet bills by following some simple instructions. I've made concoctions that get rid of ear mites. One time all three cats caught something that was irritating their nictating eyelids (the one you never see.)
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pond
How to Calm Your Cat By Kristin Bailey Murphy
A stressed-out cat is no fun for anyone, especially when it can lead to unwanted behavior like clawing your couch, or worse, spraying it. Here are six feline-friendly ways to calm your cat into the purring fur ball you know and love.
1. Play soothing music "When we brought my son, Max, home for the first time, my cat didn't quite know what to think. All the crying panicked her -- she would pace around and meow incessantly," says Debbie Shapiro, 34, of New York, New York. "I inadvertently discovered that classical music not only calmed down my baby, but me and my cat as well. Mozart has become our best friend." However, according to certified cat behavior consultant Marilyn Krieger, cats don't do well around loud music. "Make sure whatever music you play is not erratic or high-pitched," she advises.
2. Serve catnip Denise Martin, 38, of Los Angeles, California, uses catnip to ease her cat's bouts of anxiety. "There are certain times when my cat gets antsy, like when I get out the vacuum cleaner," she says. "She knows what's coming and she hides under the bed. But I sprinkle catnip on the kitchen floor and she rolls around in it like she's a kitten again. It totally takes her mind off the scary vacuum monster." While the effects of catnip are different for each cat, your stressed-out kitty will likely have an immediate and beneficial change of state. "Catnip is stimulating stuff," Krieger says, "but it eventually calms cats down because it helps them release their energy."
3. Treat your cat to a massage According to Maryjane Ballner, animal massage specialist and author of Cat Massage: A Whiskers-to-Tail Guide to Your Cat's Ultimate Petting Experience (St. Martin's Press), stressed-out cats want affection and attention, and massage is the best way to give it to them. "On a physiological level, it's soothing and calming and it releases endorphins," she says. "On another level, it accelerates bonding with your cat."
Balking at the idea of giving your cat a massage? "At first, people think it's frivolous, but when they see the results, they know that it's substantial," says Ballner.
"We're not talking about deep muscle manipulation, we're talking about techniques that promote bonding." Make slow movements and apply gentle pressure so your cat feels the calming effect.
4. Speak in soothing voices When cats experience something stressful, such as a trip to the vet or groomer, Ballner suggests repeatedly speaking or singing to them in a slow, low-pitched voice because it reminds them of the comforts and consistency of home. "In situations like that, cats are out of their element," she says. "They're scared. When they hear us singing to them, they feel safe." Krieger agrees: "When trying to calm down a cat, it's important to keep your voice level. They will respond much better than if they sense a lot of stress in your voice."
5. Try pheromone spray When your cat rubs its face against you, it is leaving a trace of pheromones on you to show that it feels comfortable and happy. According to Krieger, when cats are exposed to stressful situations, such as the addition of another household pet, "they can exhibit fear and undesirable behavioral issues, like spraying and inappropriate elimination." Pheromone sprays mimic the natural facial pheromones found in cats, and when used, can create a comforting, reassuring feeling that has a calming effect. "It's a great way to encourage relaxation for a distressed cat," Krieger continues.
"I use Feliway [pheromone] spray when I take my cat to the vet," says Martin. "I spray some inside her crate, and it makes the whole experience better for both of us. That stuff works miracles."
6. Provide visual stimulation If your cat is alone for long stretches of time, consider putting a kitty video on the TV before you leave (please see below for resources). Krieger says that turning on a TV network such as Animal Planet or even talk radio will also do wonders for your cat. The sound and visuals simply help to make your kitty feel less alone.
RESOURCES
"Cat Sitter" DVD available at thecatconnection website.
Pawbreakers Plentiful Pride Pack catnip is available at the pawbreakers website.
"Cat Massage" DVD is available at the dogandcatmassage website.
Comfort Zone Diffuser with Feliway for Cats is available at Petco.
For information on cat massage, visit thecatcoach website.
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Twinky
Thanks, Pond:
Thanks for the suggestions.
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pond
I have my desk a glass desk set up in front of my picture window.
they sit on it andwatch the bird feeders . I also have a squirrel feeder on my window with a suction cup it is a cone shape thing that you put corn in and they love to growl at the squirell and pretend they can get them through the glass while the squirells tap with their nails and smile and mutch.
catuion if you decide to feed the squirrels to keep them out of the feeder it goes like this .... they bring their friends , instead of changing their habits.
you can buy a perch for cats at wall mart or anywhere that sells cat stuff that hooks right on to the sill all cats can NOT resist the temtation to see and smell fresh air.
well unless they are blind or something . they have these plastic aquariums that look real too that cats love to watch. with fish that run on batteries and do not need to be fed or cleaned!
since the kids moved out my cats do indeed watch tv, i know it sounds strange and weird if you have a busy house to understand this but if im watching a moving with cars or people my cats will sit or lay down right in front of the tv and watch the whole show , YES they are watching the tv show, they are my company and od what i do . I think they like it.
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Twinky
Too true, Pond, cats do watch and enjoy TV!
Just dropping in briefly, got i/net access but not for long.
Guess what? PROGRESS!!!!
Tillie allowed me to stroke her yesterday and again today. She also made a low gutteral sound that was rather like purring. My, she has a wonderfully soft coat. She seemed to enjoy a good ear and neck scratch and let me stroke her back and tail both times. She does not welcome it but was submissive enough. She jumped over the food bowl which is by a wall and let me touch her as she did that and gradually let me stroke her more strongly. She put up with it for several minutes and then turned and hit me (drawing blood) but hey, I'm happy.
I need to stop her beating up on the other cat, which now comes out to play but is very hesitant and plays with half an eye on Tillie. She can only play with Tillie's permission and likewise eat only with Tillie's permission. I may need to imprison Tillie in the kittening cage (if I can catch her) when I play with Tallie.
I have been putting 3-4 drops of Rock Rose and 3-4 drops Mimulus in their drinking water (which is a good sized mugful every day). I wonder if the product has a diuretic effect, as they seem to wee a lot, but they definitely seem calmer. They also get a quick squirt of Feliway near the food bowl and behind the couch (Tallie's current residence).
So getting there - slowly slowly but moving forwards.
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pond
ok again my experience and I have read some about the dominate cat in a house hold.
MY male cat has always and I mean always been the doinate cat... if he witness me petting the other cat he will attack her without mercy and rip her fur out and stand on her till she is exhuasted.
she has to wait till he is out of the room to be pette and she isnt a reall big one for petting (probabky because she takes her life in her own paws when she is petted.
when i come home she is NOT allowed to greet me at the door only him first then when he gets the tap on the head can she come over for a pet. Unless he is a big slob and is still in bed. then she can because he is to lazy.
nOW before you think this is being a bullly after a decade of fur flying I do not understand it to be this way HE is protecting her in his manly way He is very much a territory cat and she for the most part can do as she pleases unless he decides no way he doesnt like it then she gets her foot kicked. after more than a decade together they have for the most part worked out their relationship.
and she adores him even if she doesnt really like him. they do not sleep together or be very social with one another for the most part BUT if he has a issue she is the vocal one in MY face telling me all about the problem untill i take care of his need. and every once in a while I see him kiss her gently on the ear with love.
so she is a little bitchy and high strung in my opinion and he has had to "take a stand with her" but I have frozen guests in fear they flip right out when the cats used to fight and they would take off all through the house ripping out their fur and biting and stratching like war is on! I think when people are over she want to see what is going on and meet people and He says no it isnt safe let me go first...
now not so much but i have fewer people over.
I have read the pages about how to stop the dominance of one cat over another NONE of them have ever worked for me... but i didnt want to get into their relationship and always allowed them to have it there way if she didnt want to stay or him either one could have left they are indoor outdoor cats. almost two decades later they are still together albeit with some serious ground rules .
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pond
I am checking to see if the cat picture shows up . this is my male kitty not to scary is he?
no comment on the weight.
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Twinky
Thanks, Pond. Well I guess I have to leave it to them.
I do think Tallie is getting a raw deal but if she won't stand up for herself, I can't make her. Would like to encourage her though. She looks miserable, slinking around very low on her legs and ultra wary.
It's easy to forget Tillie is also fragile. She acts very bold in the house, following me about, rubbing up against anything she can (even my bicycle chain today, yeuk, and she wouldn't be scared away) but she is easily frightened and is being untouchable again today.
They do seem to play together and sniff at each other in greeting. Tillie is the instigator with everything.
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Twinky
Well, they are getting a little bolder.
Tillie gazes at the kitchen door as if longing to go out. However, lately she has happily observed me from the dining chair and made no effort to get out. She will not even enter my "study" which she has not been allowed in since she arrived. Today was the first time she came into the study despite my urgings and enticings with her whip/chasing toy.
A few times recently I have noticed Tallie also on a dining chair. They may be cuddled up on the same chair. Then Tillie has a stretch and shoves off onto a different chair.
Tallie initiates nothing. However if I am playing with Tillie with the whip she is attracted by the noise it makes as it flops onto the carpet or the floor and she emeges quite quickly from her hiding place. I have to flick it at her quite a lot before she makes a desultory effort to catch it. But then she will play (again with half an eye on Tillie). So that is progress for Tallie. She watches with great interest at Tillie, the great galumph, frolics around with great glee. I think she likes to play but can't relax and enjoy because she is scared of the other cat.
I am thinking of renaming them now I've got to know them better.
Tillie may become "Tuxedo." She looks so smart and dressed up with a perfectly symmetrical white throat and bib which points down her chest. The point tapers delicately to loop round each armpit and delicately trails down the center of her torso to near the crotch region where she has a white circular patch. Her front toes are white and her back toes and heels are also white, like she's wearing spats. Her whiskers are also white. The black is very dense and glossy. She looks all dressed up.
Tallie may become "Crypto" (hidden). She also is black but next to Tillie (Tuxy) she is a really really dark brown with a little white circular patch a bit like a necklace at the throat. As far as I know, all the rest is black.
Doesn't matter what you call them. They don't respond anyway.
...Ugh. On the other hand Tillie (Tuxy) may become "Crapto" (sorry about the poor taste) - she eats a lot and therefore eliminates a lot (*very* stinkily). As the alpha cat she doesn't consider it necessary to cover her leavings. ...I have to go and attend to the litter tray... (gag).
(Edited for spelling)
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Twinky
Well, I finally captured them both on camera today - see attached. Tuxedo/ Tuxy/ Sedo (Tillie) usually runs a mile and Crypto/ Heidi (Tallie) has never been around long enough. Nice view of the underside of my table too. You can see Tuxy's cute markings (bib and feet) and might just be able to make out Crypto's little circular mark just under the chin.
Had the kitchen window open just a little today. Tuxy made a definite bid for freedom. She is sooo keen to explore outside. If only I could catch her or at least handle her occasionally maybe she could be allowed out. Maybe.
Tuxy loves the toy in the photo and attacks it with enthusiasm. It's wound around with string which is completely ripped off in places.
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